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Ultimate Plot holes/questions and answers debate thread

Prometheus Forum Topic

Engineering

MemberOvomorphJun 14, 201216022 Views361 Replies
********THIS THREAD IS A WORK IN PROGRESS******** These are truncated interpretations of forum members "plot holes" or unaswered questions along with answers and explainations from various members... 1)[u]Is sacrificing one of their kind really the best way they have to create life on earth in the beginning of the film?[/u] 2)[u]Why would Weyland spend so much money to fund a mission with no hard evidence that Shaw and Holloway's theories are correct?[/u] [b]He's a multi-quadrillionaire or mega-rich for that matter. Money is no object and immortality is his only desire.[/b] 3)[u]Why is Shaw portrayed as a Christian believer yet she forms a hypothesis that contradicts Christian beliefs?[/u] [b]In the film someone says that her beliefs are incorrect because the Engineers created humans. She answers with "Yes, but who made them?" She has her own beliefs that are obviously based in Christianity but every Christian does not believe or worship in the same way.[/b] 4)[u]Why was Weyland playing like he was dead and hiding in cryo besides plot reasons?[/u] [b]He was in cryo to preserve the short time he had to live. As far as why he hid it from the crew perhaps he's an eccentric multi-quadrillionaire who likes to mess with people's heads. Or, if the comany and share holders believe he's dead he could be doing it for some business reasons.[/b] 5)[u]Why is Vickers being Weyland's daughter kept a secret?[/u] [b]Vickers being Weyland's daughter is kept secret from the audience. Never in the film does it suggest that this fact is kept from the crew. She has a different last name but that doesn't mean that the last name was made up. Maybe a married name or she kept her mother's last name.[/b] 6)[u]Why does Vickers even go on the mission when it's against her best intrest in regards to taking over Weyland Industries? It's not in her best intrest if other "sharks" are on earth plotting to take over the company while she's on the mission.[/u] [b]For one Weyland is not dead so the company is still his. Also, Vickers obviously has daddy issues. Her father prefers a replicant to her. Her father is dying. She expresses that in her opinion the mission is a joke and will not be successful therefore she believes her father is going to die on the mission. She looks at the mission as her last chance to redeem herself or win her father's love away from David.[/b] 7)[u]Why does Weyland take the voyage instead of sending a probe and funding further medical research?[/u] [b]What medical research is going to uncover immortality?[/b] 8)[u]Why does Weyland think he can appreciate or understand immortality or the Engineers reasoning and capabilities when he himself states that his creatioin, David, cannot appreciate the immortality he has been given because he has no soul?[/u] [b]Again, he's an eccentric, multi-quadrillionaire. He created another lifeform. He also obviously thinks he is on equal footing with the gods or Engineers. He is incredibly self rightious. And, unlike David, he has a soul.[/b] 9)[u]Why does the crew rush into the temple instead of waiting for the pups to finish mapping?[/u] [b]They never go into any area of the pyramid that has not been mapped.[/b] 10)[u]Why would the crew remove their helmets when they admit that, though breathable, it could still be dangerous?[/u] [b]Once they find out it's breathable they never say anything about a chance of it still being dangerous. In fact, someone states that the air is, in fact, cleaner than earth's air.[/b] 11)[u]Why does David shine a flashlight at a hologram?[/u] [b]He's in a very dark place and has a flashlight in his hand. When most people are in the dark and hear or see something moving they usually will shine said flashlight in that direction.[/b] 12)[u]How does Fifield and Milburn get lost when Fifield is in charge of the pups?[/u] [b]The pup readout was loading to the display on the ship, Fifield had a piece of the equipment that showed them the readout however when he and Millburn decided to leave rather near their point of entry he had to leave the equipment with the crew who were staying so they could continue to find their way. Fifield and Millburn being men both think they can find their own way and don't bother contacting Janek for directions. Then the storm hits knocking out contact.[/b] 13)[u]Why are geologist Fifield and biologist Millburn not interested in the uber-important descoveries that the team make in the pyramid?[/u] [b]It's possible that they are too frightened to care about their careers at that point. Or better yet they are interested but are smart enough to hang back until the pyramid is found to be safe and without threat.[/b] 14)[u]Why is Millburn stupid enough to try to pet the hammerpeede?[/u] [b]Perhaps his inquisitive, biologist nature that was talked about being absent in question #36 has finally got the better of him. Also, Fifield had just showed him that he had marajuana in his resperator. This could explain why Fifield is super paranoid as well as why Millburn wants to pet the hammerpeede. Fifield is paranoid because he's stoned and Millburn is trying to show off in order to impress Fifield so he'll share the marajuana.[/b] 15)[u]How is human dna and engineer dna a match yet there are differences between them?[/u] 16)[u]Why doesn't the crew ask David to translate Engineer writing when they find out there's a contagion loose?[/u] [b]When they find out Holloway's infected is the first sign of a contagion. At this point they are in the pyramid and find Millburn's body and see that Fifield is missing. They also see the hammerpeede scuttle off which scares them as well. The sh*t has hit the fan at this point.They don't think about or have time to ask David to translate anything as they are trying to hurry and get to the Prometheus to help Holloway. Besides, David is off on his own mission at the orrey in the Juggernaut.[/b] 17)[u]Why does Janek go to have sex with Vickers?[/u] [b]Seriously??? All joking aside, Janek is the captain of the ship. He's not responsible for anything scientific which is what the mapping of the pyramid is. Also, at this point he has told Fifield and Millburn to hunker down and not bugger each other and all is quiet. Finally, at this point, there has been no threat. Just what he believes to be glitches with the pups.[/b] 18)[u]Why does nobody get angry at Janek for dereliction of duty?[/u] [b]See above answer.[/b] 19)[u]Why does David infect Holloway for no reason?[/u] [b]Before David infects Holloway he has a conversation with Weyland who is in cryo. When David leaves he comes upon Vickers lurking in the corridors. She askes David what Weyland said. "He said to try harder" he tells her. Weyland wants to find out what the "black goo" is capable of without being the guinea pig. Could it make him immortal? Could it make him morph into an alien? Could it give him the runs? He tells David to infect someone. David picks the person he likes the least of the crew. [/b] 20)[u]Why does infected Holloway act ok and return to the temple putting his girlfriend and crew in danger?[/u] [b]Holloway has no idea he's infected. He dosn't know what David did. All that happened before they left for the pyramid was what he saw in his eye in the mirror. He could have been thinking he was seeing things due to cryo or space travel or whatever. He didn't display any pain until they were in the ampule room and at that point he asked Shaw if what was going on was bad.[/b] 21)[u]How does David know what 3 months pregnant looks like in terms of an alien?[/u] [b]David tells Shaw she's 3 months pregnant BEFORE he tells her it's not human. He's telling her she's 3 months pregnant in terms of the size of a human fetus at 3 months. He knows they haven't been there for 3 months and that the alien fetus couldn't be that old as they hadn't been there 3 months.[/b] 22)[u]Why does David put Shaw to sleep when she asks him to take the alien fetus out?[/u] [b]First, putting Shaw to sleep and in cryo is the most rational actions he could take as the med-pod only works on males and they don't have the personel to do the procedure.[/b] 23)[u]Why does Shaw not mention David's behavior to anyone after the c-section?[/u] [b]Because his behavior was totally rational.[/b] 24)[u]Why is nobody, especially David,curious about what happened to Shaw and her baby after the c-section?[/u] [b]David trumped Shaw's pregnancy with the surviving Engineer. After he was found, anything else was secondary - which includes Shaw's baby. And David was the only one who SAW the fetus. I doubt he said much, of if he did, he was deliberately vague. Weyland's only concern was meeting his "maker", and since Shaw was obviously alive and coherent, why would Weyland even care? He was on borrowed time, only days to live - if that. He's not going to give a crap about what Shaw was up to.[/b] 25)[u]Why does Janek assume that LV-233 is an "experimental weapons depot" located far away from the Engineer's home world?[/u] [b]Janek explains this himself to Shaw in the film.[/b] 26)[u]If LV-233 is in fact an "experimental weapons depot" why would the Engineers give humans a map to it?[/u] 27)[u]Why is the ships control system started by a flute and controlled with buttons instead of being contolled by a flute OR buttons exclusively?[/u] [b]Do cars start up when you push the gas pedal or stereo buttons? No. They start with keys. The flute is the key the Engineers chose.[/b] 28)[u]Why does the awakened Engineer attack instead of finding out what's going on?[/u] [b]He has just been awakened early from a long sleep by inferior beings who he and his kind created and now want to destroy. These inferior beings have somehow found them and the rest of his beings on the ship are dead. He sees them somewhat of a threat. He has no idea what they know or what they're capable of. Not physically, he knows he can handle them physically. He's worried about what they know about the Juggernauts on the planet and their plan to destroy mankind.[/b] 29)[u]Why do Janek's co-pilots offer up their lives so readily?[/u] [b]First ands foremost the fact that the lifeboat can only sustain life for 2 years means they are going to die before anyone can rescue them anyway. Also, Janek seems to be a boss that they definitely look up to and they obviously respect him to the utmost. Plus, how often do you get a chance to save the entire planet instead of running like a coward?[/b] 30)[u]Why doesn't Vickers run sideways to avoid crash?[/u] 31)[u]Why does the Juggernaut fall straight down during the crash instead of at an angle?[/u] 32)[u]How does a rock hold the crashing Juggernaut up, saving Shaw's life?[/u] [b]If you look you can see that the part of the Juggernaut that lands where Shaw is is sloped inward which means the part of the ship that hit the rock was also lower to the ground when the ship hits. If the ship is sitting flat on flat ground that part of the ship would not be touching the ground.[/b] 33)[u]Why does the Engineer go after Shaw with bare hands when there are more Juggernauts?[/u] [b]See question #28.[/b] 34)[u]How does Shaw's baby grow so big in a confined area with no food source?[/u] [b]The trilobite fetus grew at an alarming rate while inside with what would seem to be little nutrition from Shaw as from the time she had intercourse and was impregnated to the time of the c-section she had not eaten anything. The trilobite just continues this trend after the c-section. Or perhaps the trilobite ate some of the crew members we didn't see much of.[/b] 35)[u]Why does Shaw head for the Engineer's home when she knows they want to destroy humans?[/u] [b]To get answers. She states this at the end of the film. She doesn't care the cost. In her mind she will get answers from the Engineers or die and meet her maker and get answers that way.[/b] 36)[u]How did Shaw manage to acomplish all the feats of strength and daring after a very painful c-section?[/u] [b]Shaw gives herself painkilling shots during the c-section as well as after. The combination of future surgical tools and techniques, the ability of future drugs to kill pain as well as good ol' adrenaline could have easily helped her along.[/b] 37)[u]How did the Trilobite survive the sterilization process?[/u] [b]The Trilobite does have some human DNA and perhaps the Pauling Med-pod's sterilization process is not calibrated for human/alien hybrid parasite trilobite.[/b] 38)[u]Why is the Prometheus no equipped with weapons to blow the Juggernaut up instead of having to fly into it?[/u] [b]Scientific expedition. Not an attack ship.[/b]
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cuponator3000
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[i]28)Why does the awakened Engineer attack instead of finding out what's going on[/i]? First off, the most poplar opinion is that the engineers are or were getting ready to launch a war or exterminate life on earth so the engineer probably wanted nothing more than to kick some human ass, plus, he must have been able to tell that David was an android and got angry that the humans are now, pretty much, creating life so he took his head off and ran so he could fly to earth

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cjwb123
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Why did David put the goo in? Weyland couldn't as he he was asleep and didn't know for sure if they would even find anything. So what made David do it?
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Spartacus
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I don't think Holloway was chosen because he was disliked, I think David8 Is Incapable of true feelings that way one way or another, I think David8 Chose him because he knew he would more than likely have an intimate relationship with SHAW and infect her. Or, that it was just because at that time he had the quickest access to Holloway whom was alone in the "rec-room".
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Kanes Son
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Why did David infect Holloway? When we see David 'talking' to Weyland when he's in hyper sleep, Weyland presumably asks him 'what does the black goo do?' David says he 'doesn't know' and Weyland tells him to find out. So why pick holloway In particular....well I think it may be a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. David has been programmed not to feel emotions, and not to harm humans. ....but if you will recall he specifically asks David 'what would you do to get your answers, how far would you be willing to go?' (or words to that effect). To which holloway says 'anything'. In terms of David's logical computational thinking, holloway has simply AGREED to take part in David's crude experiment so he therefore sees nothing wrong with infecting him! Thoughts?
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Engineering
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One question that still bugs me is the "how did Fifield get lot even though he runs the pups" debate. Well, reading the article in Cinefex Richard Stammers explains... [i]"The pups...shoot down the corridors,map out the structures and that data gets fed back to the Prometheus..."[/i] He never says that Fifield has anything on his person which relays the info to him. However, in the film the crew ask Fifield which way to go and he replys "The pups say this way." So, my reasoning is that when Fifield decided to puss out and leave the rest of the crew, he had to leave the pup device with the remaining crew so they could navigate thru the caves. Being so close to the entrance I'm sure he thought he could find his way back.
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atrain2001
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This is a stupid theory, bear with me. The general consensus is that the engineers created the xenomorphs, what if it was the other way around. I believe this because: 1. The “tomb room” in Prometheus was a temple. The engineers flocked to this room when the “goo” was accidently released (safe place/ church). 2. There is an alien mural on the wall, the alien is in a crucified pose, there are many references throughout the movie to crucifixes (Shaw) and the relation to God. 3. The mural in the tomb room has auxiliary pictures showing engineers giving their lives to be implanted with xenomorphs. Someone on a thread somewhere noted that this was akin to the engineers creating us however the pictures of a burst open abdomen are clear (giving their lives to the creator). 4. Engineers and aliens are both asexual and have the same biomechanical rib cage, they both could come from each other. What if the engineers were created by the xenomorphs to be sheppards and gardeners of their race? The ship in “Alien” was meant to be a crop seeding ship, spreading Alien life, that life infested the pilot (obviously Aliens’ are hard to handle). Maybe the engineers’ on a side project created us with the goo that their gods had given them to disseminate, then the gods two thousand years ago decided to repopulate our planet with their life (due to Roman/ war influences as previous posts have suggested). Finally, why didn’t Ridley Scott name the movie: Alien Origins: Engineers? Prometheus was chosen for a reason. From my understanding of Greek mythology, Prometheus reported to the gods who were unhappy that his creations learned how to use fire. Therefore Prometheus was to suffer with his liver being torn out etc… But, Prometheus was just a middle man (engineer) the gods were Aleins and we are the fire using folk (2000 AD lots of wars). Or are we Prometheus and created Aleins? (see the last 10 minutes of Prometheus, unlikely see above) and the engineers will make us suffer. Thoughts?
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Engineering
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Nice theory but I think it crumbles if you take into account any of the xenos from the Alien films. They didn't seem to be on that level mentally in my opinion. Even if you don't consider all the Alien films I still don't see that as being the direction Scott's going. It's not nearly as grand as Scott's thinking imo anyway.
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Spartacus
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IMO Holloway was chosen because he was the person most likely to say "Anything" to David8's question which would thus quickly allow his programming to be fulfilled.
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djr
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[b]1)Is sacrificing one of their kind really the best way they have to create life on earth in the beginning of the film?[/b] The opening scene seemed like a religious ceremony, clearly they worship the goo as both a giver of eternal life and catalyst of creation, and taker of life sort of thing. Think "creative destruction". I believe this scene was our planet btw and that this ritualistic process is a cultural thing. BUT that is not what interests me exactly. After seeing this multiple times and pondering what kind of foreshadowing could be expected I have come to two possible conclusions about the Engineers. One theory, probably the more plausible one...or rather justifiable one, is simple. The other goes a few steps further and attempts to give deeper relevance to the opening scene, and the differences between the opening scene and what we see of the Engineers later in the movie. The primary plot hole I am concerned with is the wall paintings. Why come back and warn us? Or at least it seems like a warning. Beyond that, I think it is safe to assume, given the emphasis placed on "fire" in both the mythos of Prometheus the Titan, and even in the viral TED talk by weyland, that the Engineers that visited us gave us fire and set us down a path of ever evolving technological advancement. But why? This is the primary plot hole in the movie, what motivates the Engineers? Here are my theories [b]First the least complicated and most plausible[/b] what we saw in the opening scene was simply meant to expose us to the cultural/ritualistic system the Engineers used to seed worlds and there is no connection beyond that to the rest of the movie. The Engineers in the wall paintings are the movie's "Prometheus", perhaps some rogue element either sympathizers or some other motivation, intending to groom us to oppose the systematic cleansing that takes place. The Engineers later in the movie are clearly militaristic or at least entrusted with cleansing planets, and thats about all you can really discern based on what we are given. [b]Second, more complicated[/b] Although the opening scene might not have any additional meaning (taking into consideration David's musing of "Creative Destruction") There is the possibility that the Engineers we see in the opening scene are different from the ones later in the movie, not just physically, but motivationally. The logic of forewarning present in the wall paintings simply doesn't add up, if this process of seed and destroy is business as usual, why do the later engineers seem to have armor as a part of their genetic make-up? Are they at war? Is what we witness in the opening scene the Engineers before this war? Has some sort of corruption taken place? Perhaps there has been some sort of revolution or coup. The Engineers in the first scene might have been fleeing, attempting to seed as many worlds as possible with the hope that one or more of the worlds would eventually be capable of resisting. This begs the question, when the worlds are seeded, is it all life? or just human life that is placed there? If all life, there might be too much of a time gap to make any direct connection plausible, but if just human life, perhaps there would be a better chance. The Engineers later in the movie, given the mural room with Aliens being depicted, seem to admire the destructive potential of the black goo in its purest form. Vs the Engineers in the opening scene revering the creative potential. That being said we are never really led to believe that there is any dissent in this whole process except for the warnings given to us via the wall paintings. Actually, beyond some of David's musings, there is nothing to lead us to believe that the cleansing is anything but an opposing motivation, and was actually never planned initially. I believe that the wall paintings are a big enough plot point to have much more potential significance. motivation is by far the biggest plot hole. So thats it, i find many of the plot holes listed in this thread take too much of a micro view. By trying to answer the bigger questions we can determine motivation, and through that, answer most of these easily.
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CULT
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Hey, I can post! More on that #&#% later!! Seriously, BRB
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Engineering
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@djr...Some very nice ideas. [i]"later engineers seem to have armor as a part of their genetic make-up?"[/i] What do you mean? Armore as part of their genetic make-up? If you are referring to the final Engineer that is just a pressure suit which provides vital nutrients to the Engineers while in stasis.
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AndroidsAreTrouble
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My theories: Opening Scene - sabotage. The black goo did not do what the engineer had anticipated. He appeared in agony and disbelief- not the expected graceful consumption that the overall beauty of the scene elicits. This would mean that there may be treachery among the engineers and that the encountered ships were hiding and were manned by pirates or rogues that were creating bio-weapons against their own people. This may help explain the panic among the engineers in the holograms as the traitors execute their plan and take control of the process. This may also explain the hostile reaction of the awakened engineer (one of the conspirators) as he may have assumed that this was a posse . Further, their targeting of earth could have been the next place to setup their rogue operations. Lastly, rogue operations of an advanced civilization could explain the unexplainable and apparently random alien life form progression, that the black goo was unstable, too aggressive, or both. The "temple" could further serve to explain that this is a "religiously radical" rogue group of engineers.
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Engineering
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[i]"Opening Scene - sabotage. The black goo did not do what the engineer had anticipated. He appeared in agony and disbelief- not the expected graceful consumption that the overall beauty of the scene elicits."[/i] As David says sometimes in order to create you must first destroy.
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djr
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i think there is no question that they know what it does, I mean, they have clearly all bathed in it and gained some measure of immortality. I would liken the reaction more to what any of us would experience after taking poison for the first and last time. You might be right though, and there might be more to that scene I say armor because if you look at behind the scenes photos it looks like it actually a part of him, not just a suit....like its growing out of him...some kind of intentional mutation.
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AndroidsAreTrouble
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Engineering, I would think that an advanced race would not need to destroy itself. David could have been referring to the Engineers wiping out humanity to create new life. Like the dinosaurs.
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Engineering
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@djr...I hear you but it's never described as armor and it's never been described as something that has grown out of them but has been said that the suits can morph to their bodies. Here's a few insights as to the pressure suit... [i]"The brief was: Russian cosmonaut meets Samurai which is kind of where the spacesuit came from in the original movie. But we didn't want it to look like a suit. We wanted it to look like a second skin, in the sense the technology of the Engineers is beyond anything we know, and their suits can morph to their bodies. They have hose connections that can attach to the hibernation pods to give life support while they sleep, much like humans require-because they're humanoid."[/i] [i]"Engineer flight suits contain form-fitting pressure suits that feed life-giving fluids to the beings during hibernation. Connor O'Sullivan's team created pressure suits as part of the Engineer full-body makeup. Colin Shulver sculpted the pressure suit as a neck-down, skintight covering layered with translucent organic details."[/i] So, the suits are biomechanical and can maybe interact with the dna of the Engineers but they are not armor or part of their genetic make up.
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AndroidsAreTrouble
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djr, I can not explain the hostile, violent, aggressive, and desperate actions of the engineer. He awoke, assaulted the humans, and desperately tried to fly the ship somewhere. Why was he so desperate and hurried?
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AndroidsAreTrouble
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I wonder if the suits were to prevent their own contamination.
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Engineering
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@AndroidsAreTrouble...That is a question that's posed in the archive. I too believe that it would be kind of silly to have these superior, life creating beings yet the only way they can create life is to destroy themselves. My answer is that the death of the Sacrificial Engineer is symbolic. They don't HAVE to destroy themselves to create life. They do it as a symbolic ritual. But as I noted David said that sometimes in order to create you must destroy.
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Engineering
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I don't get at all why so many seem to be baffled by the Engineer's reaction to being awakened from cryo. Here's just a little insight from the Cinefex article as to the "hostile, violent, aggressive and desperate actions of the Engineer... [i]"...David encounters the sole surviving Engineer and discovers it's disdain for Weyland's quest for immortality and it's overarching contempt for human life..."[/i] This Engineer has been awoke by creatures it was on a mission to destroy. During trying to carry out this mission something went horribly wrong and all his Engineer homies were wiped out. Now, he's awoke by the very thing they set out to destroy and these inferior beings have not only found their weapon stash, found him, awoken him but they also seem to not be affected by the virus or bioweapon which killed his bretheren. Then one of these inferior beings starts barking orders about immortality. Then one starts yelling other questions at him an gets hit for her trouble. I'd be "hostile, violent, aggressive, and desperate" in this situation as well.
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Spartacus
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With all due respect, I will let Snorky address that but it's not correct, it {The "S" Engineer} created a new DNA strand at the beginning!
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Seloga
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Is there connection between Alien vs Predator and Prometheus ? Because is supposed that in Prometheus we are witnesses of the origins of the Aliens. So why there are Aliens in the Alien vs Predator movies if they are many years before these events?
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Spartacus
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@Engineering, Me too, I am always a bit groggy anyways when I wake up so it would have worked me for fine even without your amazing detailed explanation, thank you DR. "E" {that should be your new nickname your so good}
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Engineering
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@Sparty...Not quite getting what you're debating??? Who said that it wasn't a strand of DNA that the Sacrificial Engineer created in the beginning of the film? I didn't say that the Sacrificial Engineer didn't create human dna in the opening sequence. I'm quite confused by your comment. To what statement of mine or anyone else's is it regarding?
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Spartacus
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@Seloga Snorky & I have been debating this for the better part of 2 years until the interview with the LA times in which RS told us he doesn't count anything after Cameron's sequel.
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Gavin
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@seloga - the Alien has been around for thousands of years at least

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Spartacus
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it was in response to your answer to androids are trouble right above all that! hope that helps. let me know. You & Snorky need to have one of these hash outs so you can see what I mean.
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Engineering
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@Selgoa...AvP is considered "fan fiction" and is NOT part of the Alien cannon. Actually it's not considered fan fiction, it IS fan fiction. It's totally seperate from the Alien series and DEFINITELY not any part of Prometheus. That said, there is debate regarding the Deacon being the beginning of the xeno or being a later variation of the xeno. More insight from the Cinefex article sheds some light on what may be... [i]"It represented the BEGINNING of Giger's Alien, although it did not directly resemble that creature."[/i] Now that's a revelation if you ask me as many, including me, thought that the Deacon just might be a later version of the xeno. [i]"@Engineering, Me too, I am always a bit groggy anyways when I wake up so it would have worked me for fine even without your amazing detailed explanation, thank you DR. "E" {that should be your new nickname your so good}"[/i] Thanks lol! I might just change my screen name to Dr.E. My last name is Edwards so it would fit with that as well.
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Engineering
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@Sparty... [i]"@Seloga Snorky & I have been debating this for the better part of 2 years until the interview with the LA times in which RS told us he doesn't count anything after Cameron's sequel." [/i] Thanks for that! I've been wondering where Scott's canon for Prometheus ended in regards to the Alien franchise! [i]"it was in response to your answer to androids are trouble right above all that! hope that helps. let me know. You & Snorky need to have one of these hash outs so you can see what I mean. "[/i] Still kind of confused. I think that you think I was talking about androids when I was really talking about the Engineers or something??? Please copy and paste the quote you are talking about so I can defend myself lol!
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Gavin
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Woah there Sparky, the viral website references penal colonies, a la Alien 3

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Gavin
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@ Engineering, wouldn't take too much credence in "Cineflex". Rely instead on logic, the mural clearly depicts a Xenomorph, the mural which is at least 2000 years old, therefore the Xenomorph existed well before the events of Prometheus. As backed up my Ridleys statement about the derelict craft on LV-426, itself hinted at in Alien with the decayed suit of the dead engineer. Also AVP is a whole other argument, but there has been no official statement regards the two films canon status, for or against.

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Spartacus
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@Engineering, my sincere apologies I checked and it was in response to this comment by Seloga...[quote]Is there connection between Alien vs Predator and Prometheus ? Because is supposed that in Prometheus we are witnesses of the origins of the Aliens. So why there are Aliens in the Alien vs Predator movies if they are many years before these events?[/quote]
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AndroidsAreTrouble
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I thought the mural changed. Not sure what that means as to the history of the xeno.
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Engineering
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Ooooo, juicy stuff. I will rely somewhat on the Cinefex article as all but 1 of the statements I quoted were from the people that worked on the film. Especially the quote regarding the Deacon being the beginning of "Giger's creature" and that creature being the xenomorph. I don't think that the mural "clearly" depicts a xeno. Could be a grown Deacon if you ask me. But, you have me in regards to Ridley's copmments regarding LV-426. Trust me, I want NOTHING ELSE than for the Deacon to be a new creature that will not develop into the xenomorph. There's obviously a TON of conflicting info and I think it should be considered as long as it's from a credible source. I think the guy that designed the Deacon is a credible source who obviously had close relations with Scott while designing the creature. As far as AvP if it was canon then Weyland would have died looong before Prometheus as AvP took place modern day back in 2004. Weyland was pretty old and there's no way he could have survived that long. Plus Weyland was younger during the TED speach of 2023 than he was in 2004 in AvP. Thanks so much for the stimulating debate!
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Gavin
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I was referring to this Mural ... [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheus_screencap49.jpg[/img]

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Engineering
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@Sparty...All good! Glad it's cleared up! Back to the Deacon and xeno debate... While I think this film and the direction it will take as well as it's relation to the Alien franchise was well thought out I do also believe that there are going to be a few contradictions. There's no way that they could have covered absolutely everything. And in regards to Scott's comments about the derelict on LV-426 and the timeline, to my knowledge those comments were made pre-Prometheus and not dealt with in any of the films. He could have changed his mind as to the timeline. Or maybe the xeno we know from Alien has already been created but the Deacon is an early step in the process to get to the xeno. Does that make sense? I don't know. And as I've said I'd rather not see the xeno's origin as I'd like the wonderful secrets of Alien that are left to remain just that...wonderful secrets. But I don't think there's sufficient evidence yet to say with certainty that the Deacon is a pre-xeno or is a post xeno. Just my 2.
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Engineering
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I know exactly which mural you were referring to. The xeno and Deacon look so much alike and the fact that we haven't seen a full grown Deacon leads me to state that we can't tell which one that is. I'm not saying you're wrong. Just stating that it's not 100% clear either way.
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Gavin
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The mural I posted above already existed within the chamber, it does not change and it clearly depicts a Xenomorph. You cannot create a mural of something that will not exist for another 2000 years through an accidental chain of events. Combine that with the fact that the derelict craft on LV-426 has been there for thousands of years and you have the inevitable, logical truth that the Xenomorph already existed thousands (if not more) years before the Prometheus lands there. I have also seen people asking what killed the Engineers, what infecting the Engineer decapitated by the door. The answer is the Xenomorph - the urns are a method of deploying the xenomorph into an ecosystem. One or more of the urns was triggered by the Engineers and a Xenomorph infestation ensued - compare two (maybe more) of the dead Engineers in the pile, they are huddled in the same position as when Ripley found Dallas in Alien. Finally regards the Weyland comments... Peter Weyland is in Prometheus and the 2023 TED talk video - Born 1990, died 2093/4. He is not in AVP, that is Charles Bishop Weyland, died 2004. CB Weyland founded Weyland Industries, P Weyland founded Weyland Corporation.

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Engineering
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Ohhhh, burnt me on AvP! Not sure why the hell I thought they were the same guy. As far as everything else, it seems you're the type that think a lot of your speculations, theories and opinions are fact or scripture as displayed in a lot of you're last post. Usually when I get in a friendly debate with people of this ilk it ends up more of an argument than a friendly exchange of ideas. The mural clearly depicting a xeno is an opinion not a fact. I don't think it clearly depicts a xeno. I think it looks a lot like a Deacon as well. Could be a grown Deacon. These are my opinions. I do not state them as facts as you do. And to say that the xenomorph is what infected the Engineers well, that's as non-factual as you can get. If it was the xenos that infected them why did the heads of the engineers explode? Why didn't they continue to turn into eggs? If Scott is using Aliens as cannon as you obviously believe with your Alien 3 prison colony statement then why are they turning into eggs when that lifecycle isn't the canon being used? Regardless, as I said, that statement is as non-factual as a statement could be yet you still state it as fact. It was enjoyable at first and as an open minded individual I learned a lot from our discussion but I will now bow out.
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Engineering
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BTW...I edited and updated the post above. Also, no hard feelings from my end. As I said, I never was stating you were wrong. I was stating that certain aspects of your posts weren't facts.
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