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*mini-UPDATE* - Engineer biology explained: nipples, genitals, bowels and wrinkl

iapetus

MemberOvomorphJune 16, 201213548 Views33 Replies
Hello folks, here are a few elements I gathered regarding the Engineers biology, from either behind-the-scenes shots, film elements or screenshots and interviews of sfx artists and crew. First of, contrarily to what I have frequently read across the board, the engineers do have nipples. They are tiny and not quite noticeable, but present nevertheless. See the (pre-)production shots below. It is particularly obvious on the cgi-match of the actor in the breakdown-shot of the 'genesis scene', and even more on the chest prosthetics in the behind-the-scene shots. A second step is to acknowledge that they have genitals. This is reliably supported by the pre-prod design studies for the engineers, in which the engineer features noticeable nipples and male genitals ; we can reliably assume this was preserved in the final design for the film as the Sacrificial Engineer appears wearing a loincloths tied around his waist which would make no sense if not to hide his genitals. And you don't hide your genitals more than you hide your ear unless said genitals are... gendered, which brings us to the next step... As a consequence from their having nipples and genitals, and given their DNA (see film) and physiological (see below) similarity to humans, it is relatively straightforward to assume the Engineers are gendered, and thus that female Engineers shall exist. As aforementioned, an element we can safely deduce from Arthur Max's interview (and, in a lesser way Conor O'Sullivan's – see material below) is that their physiology and metabolism are relatively similar, or at least comparable, to those of humans. They do need being fed during artificial sleep and their organic functions seem to be monitored in ways relatively similar to ours too. This and the scene in which David8 gets close to the engineer sarcophagus to listen to what appears to be a heartbeat seem to support that their internal organs' anatomy and function are also quite similar to ours. From there and on, we can probably assume their reproduction and life cycle to be potentially similar to ours, involving coitus, fertilization, gestation and delivery. This would mean only a couple tweaks and tricks differ, that are hinted at in the film (strength, life expectancy) but maybe also a few others we have yet not heard of (sensorial capabilities? interaction/symbiosis with biomechanoid tech? ...etc). Inferences in this paragraph are drifting one step further away from available material and shall thus be taken with a grain of salt, until additional elements infirm/confirm that. Another reliable assumption, however, is Engineers do appear to age. This is supported by the presence of an Elder Engineer (called so by the film's crew/initial credits) in shots from the introduction “Genesis scene” that were cut from the theatrical release (and could eventually be reintegrated in a DVD/BR “Director's cut”?). This is also indirectly supported by the fact engineers use sarcophagi to slow their metabolism for long period of cryostasis, which also would make no sense for a non-aging/eternal creature (so much for ole' Weyland's hopes anyway, uh?). These are the few reliable conclusions I have come to, from elements gathered so far. Please, do contribute in the comments and I will edit this post to append new elements (with due credits given) so we can have an extensive view of what we know about Engineer biology. *EDIT* One thing that make those nipples poorly noticeable in the film is the almost translucent and extremely pal, alabaster-like aspect of the Engineers' skin wanted by Ridley Scott (see Conor O'Sullivan's interview). It means there is a strong influence of light scattering in the several layers of 'skin' (either practical/virtual). This is achieved in practical-effects by the different layers the prosthetics are made off (including a semi-translucent top-most silicone layer), and in cgi through complex volumetric scattering effects for which Weta specifically explained how they had to further develop the tools they used on Avatar ([url=http://www.fxguide.com/featured/prometheus-rebuilding-hallowed-vfx-space/]**read here**[/url]). This massive scattering, coupled to the very pale matching-tone colour of their skin and the extremely unsaturated, crude and diffuse light (clouds, waterfall) of the intro scene explains the limited contrast on the engineer in these shots, outside of steep topological reliefs marked by a harsher contrast. (see how different/more contrasted the sacrificial engineer looks in a dimmer, warmer and more direct interior lighting in pic #8, and how easier it is to spot his nipple). ******************************** Sources/Credits: - quotes are from my translation of French magazine “L'Écran Fantastique” (much more inside, suggest to read it!) - PDF can be downloaded in [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/5835]**that thread here**[/url] - images are courtesy of [url=http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150887057811376.419643.551306375&type=3]Conor O'Sullivan[/url] (Prosthetics Supervisor on [i]Prometheus[/i]) ; [url=http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.403920239646688.88409.304949236210456&type=3]Creatures Inc. Ltd[/url] ; [url=http://www.fxguide.com/featured/prometheus-rebuilding-hallowed-vfx-space/]fxguide.com[/url] and [url=http://thenexusnews.com/prometheus-2-in-development/852676/]thenexusnews.com[/url] ******************************** [b]Arthur Max (Production Designer):[/b] [i][b]Can you tell us how you simulate the functioning of the many technologies on the sets of the ships, with accessories featuring moving parts, lightings, screens and various artefacts?[/b][/i] --- There are two parts of the Prometheus in which we integrated mechanisms and sophisticated accessories. The first is the mess hall where the crew meets after they come out of hibernation. We had to think of the technologies that should be assembled to maintain an hibernating person alive, and how they could practically work. We talked about that with both NASA specialists and members of the Royal College of Medicine. They told us about how the body could be preserved and the heartbeat slowed down and placed under a reactive monitoring-system. A person placed in hibernation must also be fed during the artificial sleep, which has particular consequences you will discover in the movie, when our heroes wake up. Similar phenomena occur when the creatures nicknamed “Space Jockeys” themselves come out of their hibernation-state. Like humans, they depend on systems that ensure proper organic functions, and are adapted to their particular morphology... [b]Conor O'Sullivan (Prosthetics Supervisor)[/b] [i][b]Can you tell us how you have found the right aspect to represent the Space Jockeys alive, on the basis of Giger's original design of the corpse?[/b][/i] --- It is Neville Page who was in charge of establishing the aspect of the engineers. In fact, what we call a “Space Jockey”, it is the appearance these beings have when they wear their spacesuits, and that they get in the seat of the control unit in order to pilot their ship.. It is this suit that we could see in the original film, and not their true appearance, because the suit closes around them like some sort of cocoon. [i][b]So, what we took for a skull in the original film is in fact a helmet?[/b][/i] --- Yes. And the rest is a spacesuit that opens to reveal the ideal body of a giant humanoid. The engineers are supposed to be slightly over 3m tall [translator's note: 9 feet 10 inches], and look like Michelangelo sculptures. [i][b]They are therefore very similar to humans?[/b][/i] --- They have the exact appearance of humans, except for their size. They have no hairs on their head or body, and look like a marble statue. Ridley wanted the aspect of their skin to be close to that of alabaster, that is a skin so pale that it is almost translucent, and that you can see the veins through it. During our first meeting, I told Ridley I was not sure we would be able to produce that exact aspect he desired. Ridley had only two technical options in mind to present them: either create the characters in CGI, or use actors wearing prosthetics. I think what tipped the scales in our favour is the fact we developed this new method of laying silicon prosthetics. Even if the entire make-up process for the naked engineer lasted eight hours, the final result was absolutely perfect. Ridley was delighted of the result and told us it largely exceeded his hopes. [i][b]The translucent prosthetics of the naked engineer were therefore made in silicon, while the opaque biomechanical suit was made in latex-foam?[/b][/i] --- Yes. The principal engineer of the film wears a biomechanical suit that we nicknamed the 'precious suit' [i][based on the art book, it appears the magazine reporter got it wrong and what O'Sullivan said must have been “Pressure Suit” - Thanks to The Engineering for pointing that out - note by iapetus][/i], that was made in latex-foam, on which we applied silicon elements. This suit was then covered in a layer of silicon, and then repainted. […] [img]http://cdn.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Weta_eng1.jpg[/img] [img]http://cdn.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Weta_4en.jpg[/img] [img]http://cdn.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Weta_3en.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/znkdU.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/XUHSr.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/QC7FC.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/cLg3q.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/VDXJz.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/5tS8v.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/2fVyc.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/ZeOf1.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/W15dQ.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/FVS75.jpg[/img]
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Hadley's Hope
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After a while of seeing photos that weren't in the film, showing the older engineer and the nipples, some of you will forget what is on screen and what is not. There are no noticeable nipples on screen. There are very noticable nipples off screen. You are letting the line get blurred already. Where's Mr. Spock when I need him? Engineer, what's not befitting to doubting Ridley Scott. He's very clever and it makes sense he would be messing with our heads esp about anything that relates to a sequel.
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kornbean
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Actually, that was me who said the whole 'not befitting' thing. I wasn't really suggesting that about disregarding Ridley Scott, but instead about accepting Gliese 86 as the true location. I like the idea of Gliese 86 being the location more than Zeta 2, but it still doesn't quite sit right with me. Also, if you still know where to find that pre-production schematic of the Prometheus, I'd really appreciate a link as I also have some curiosities about it.
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Hadley's Hope
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[u] I like the idea of Gliese 86 being the location more than Zeta 2, but it still doesn't quite sit right with me.[/u] Why not? Gliese 86 is 34.5 light years away, and Zeta 2 is ligt years further away.... the ships distance is given as 327 Trillion km... that matches Gliese 86... but is about 30 Trillion km short of Zeta 2 Reticuli. I know which one sits right with my thinking.
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Hadley's Hope
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Will look for it. Basically it pointed to those two structures on the top of she ship as being lifeboats. (which is where lifeboats would be on a sea going vessel. ) and later images of course point to a larger rear module. (less chance of being hit I suppose, but a SINGLE lifeboat rather than do, does seem like tempting fate. Your one malfunction away from having NO lifeboat.)
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iapetus
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@Hadley's Hope well, that sure makes for a lot of definitive statements and sarcasm, in your post. I am just as subjected to being wrong as anyone else here, but I find your condescending tone surprising for our first interaction on this board. I do not post a lot, but you might find I try and pay attention to what I post and how I do it. Though, again, it obviously doesn't make me safe from mistakes. I took care to write "(pre-)production" to make it clear some shots were pre-production and some were production, not all pre-prod as you imply. Actually, out of the overall 12 shots, only # 9, 10 and 11 are actually pre-production, concept artwork. The rest include either production screenshots from the film (theatrical release or cut scenes) or behind-the-scene schots from the actor, practical effects make-up/prosthesis accessories or from a breakdown detailing the integration of cgi-effects in a film production shot. Just to drive the nail for you, "behind-the-scene/making-of" shots do not necessarily mean "pre-production concept artwork". I think I already made that clear in my original post but let's re-detail it here just for relevant production shots: - On the 1st image - a still from the film - you can quite distinctly see at least the left nipple of the sacrificial engineer. - The 2nd and 3rd pics together show a breakdown from the integration of the engineer's cgi model in another still from the film. If you still cannot locate the nipples on #2, I think they are made noticeable enough on the cgi-double on #3. - Next, shots #4,5,6,7 further establish engineer nipples in our real world, as they are images of practical-effects accessories. That is, one master cast and the prosthetics that were applied on the actors interpreting the engineers in the introduction scene. I think the presence of nipples leaves little place to doubt here. - you could not miss shot #8, a behing the scene shot of Daniel James/Twiss wearing his 20kg prosthetics during the film production. Here again, it is mostly the left nipple making an appearance, mostly thanks to the dimmer and more contrasted lighting than that during the intro waterfall scene. One thing that make those nipples poorly noticeable in the film is the almost translucent and extremely pal, alabaster-like aspect of the Engineers' skin wanted by Ridley Scott (see Conor O'Sullivan's interview). It means there is a strong influence of light scattering in the several layers of 'skin' (either practical/virtual). This is achieved in practical-effects by the different layers the prosthetics are made off (including a semi-translucent top-most silicone layer), and in cgi through complex volumetric scattering effects for which Weta specifically explained how they had to further develop the tools they used on Avatar ([url=http://www.fxguide.com/featured/prometheus-rebuilding-hallowed-vfx-space/]**read here**[/url]). This massive scattering, coupled to the very pale matching-tone colour of their skin and the extremely unsaturated, crude and diffuse light (clouds, waterfall) of the intro scene explains the limited contrast on the engineer in these shots, outside of steep topological reliefs marked by a harsher contrast. (see how different/more contrasted the sacrificial engineer looks in a dimmer, warmer and more direct interior lighting in pic #8, and how easier it is to spot his nipple). Nipples on prosthetics and cgi-models that are featured in the film - be them big or small enough that your eyes can or can't see it - are evidences of nipples in the film. What is not evidence, however, is uppercase fonts, sarcasm and self-conviction. When these are served to enforce unsupported homebrewed stuff against reliable material, you might additionally find it makes people hostile to your online persona. Am always amazed at the lengths some will go to make the facts match their preconceived ideas of the film, and enforce these ideas onto other board members. I always take care not to rush my statements but stew them long enough and gather material and sources to support them, which means I am pretty confident in my sayings when I finally post. Think you might want to do the same next time friend, before poking fun at people. I love self-deprecating and use friendly sarcastic humor a lot. But when sarcasm comes along condescendance and definitive statements you better make sure said statements are right. Otherwise, sarcasm quickly turns into irony, at your expense this time.
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iapetus
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*bump* Did a mini-edit on the thread's original post. - Added part of my reply to @Hadley's Hope, so as to make things even more evident and better address the matter of nipple-skepticals. - Added a pic of the Elder + other Engineers, as @Melodeath rightly noted I did not provide supporting material for the "aging" part. @Melodeath check my recent threads, I posted a lot of behind-the-scenes pics, you might want to check [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/8191]*this one in particular*[/url]. Cheers!
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Engineering
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@iapetus...I got the same tone from Hadley's Hope on our first encounter as well. I gave the same tone as well eventually. Oh, and nice explaination.
[IMG]http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q507/Engineering211/sig2.jpg[/IMG]
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Hadley's Hope
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Sorry if I came across as attacking anyone personally, and I was overly dramatic. I sometimes forget that tone does not come across well on a text based discussion. No offence is meant to anyone. I am merely trying to address the point, and it seems a very odd idea to me to claim to me that something is the case, when the direct evidence doesn't show it, and then rely on pre-production or early shots not in the film. Have you considered that these were version 1.0 and someone said,,, make the nipples almost non existent in version 2.0 i.e. what you see on screen? I've looked, and I disagree. They seem to be subcutaneous. Surely we would not say that humans have tails, just because we have vestigial tail bones? If they changed their mind about Elder Engineers, they may have toned down the nipples to being mere remnants. I'm looking at this like a devil's advocate, not a zealot by the way. They seem to have made important changes to the location and number of lifeboats. And I admit to being wrong on that, so it's not about ego, it's about being rational. If I dig out this photo of the schematic showing the lifeboats to be on the roof, it's still proof of nothing, other than that someone changed their mind later. By the way . Is there a club I can join for being a nipple skeptical? I can imagine the T-shirt... with two empty circles saying "nothing here" :)
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abordoli
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[i]Stickied by: abordoli[/i]
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MVMNT
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I can't help but think that some of the definition of the final casts got lost compared to the original maquettes and moulds. They just seem to lose detail in places such as the nipples.
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Kane77
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[b]Nice shots[/b], I love the rendered figures, reminding of classical greek sculture.. I´m sorry, this isnt a professional filmmaking IMO. If the average moviegoer isnt able to recognize it instantly on screen there´s no need to ´correct´ that afterwards with production or behind-the-scenes-fotos or whatever. What doesnt at all mean that the viewer is too dumb. Alien was a fantastic movie without too much interpretation. Prometheus lacks of important things and this should have been recognized at least while editing. It WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT, but. cheers
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shambs
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Maybe the engineers were created with a purpose (such as urns) but they carry the life within their bodies and the Urns carry the death, the I remember the words of David:"Sometimes, In Oder To Create, You Must First Destroy ", and then the Engineer must drink from the black liquid to die first before seed the life on a planet. Anyway if it is true that they have genitals so they can reproduce sexually and possibly there are males and females in their race...and probably they are not just tools.
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shambs
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I wonder if they can be silicon life forms... [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/newscientist_exobiology1_sandmanfinal.jpg[/img]

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