Prometheus: why all the disappointment?

[u]Tremayne[/u]: I have to second what [u]Engineering[/u] said about the tone of your posts. I felt that way even before you posted a response to my post. I don't spend much time on user/fan driven sites because inevitably there will be the negative Neds and Nellies who will respond to a well considered and written post with something that's akin to "Hey, dude. You're deluding yourself. Now let me tell you why." Your reply to my post ignored simple and obvious facts and details such as these gems: "...I believe and acknowledge that this film is flawed..." "I find the film to be so frustrating..." When I walked out of "Prometheus" the first time I was frustrated with the film and those reasons involved some of the acting and directing related to the last third of the film. I still feel that way about those elements of the film. However, my second and third viewings of the film allowed me to focus on different aspects and details of the film. The bottom line for me regarding "Prometheus" is as follows: Fassbender's performance is one of the most impressive pieces of film acting I've ever seen. The cinematography is phenomenal, especially the exteriors of the planet and the dust storm. The visual design of the film connects with me on many levels. However, none of that is important to you because you really know that I’m not actually expressing my own nuanced and educated opinions via my posts but rather just displaying for all the world to see that I’m deluding myself into liking “Prometheus”. Well, given that fact I might as well kill myself now. Really, what do I have left to live for now that I've been exposed for the self-deluding drone that I truly am ?

[b]Rubirosa[/b] I'm not sure about that - if you go back and watch Alien, check out the size-difference between Dallas' helmet and the Space-Jockey...then re-watch Prometheus and look at the size of the Space-Jockey's helmet that Dr Shaw brings back and they have on the operating table: there's not [i]that much[/i] difference, IMO. I think a lot of people are wishing/hoping that there is another 'level' or species of Space-Jockeys in this whole melee, that the original Space-Jockey was one of them and that the next movie in this series is going to show them. BTW, I re-watched Prometheus and I've warmed to it more - obviously it's not on the same level as Alien, but then how could it be? That movie was a total game-changer in sci-fi/horror movie-making genre. My best-effort analgoy would be...imagine The Beatles doing a follow-up to 'Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band' 15 years later and think how that would go down.

@synthetic_69...[i]"Hey, dude. You're deluding yourself. Now let me tell you why."[/i] I don't really mind that as long as the "why" is intelligent and thought out. As far as the simply useless, negative, no point replys I just try to ignore them. It might not matter to him or anyone else but Inquisitor is cool in my book. I was just wondering if I was the only one that thought this and if it was, in fact, hostility and/or anger. I've said a million times that there are people on both sides which are the "it rocks" or "it sucks" with no explaination or thoughts as to why types. Inquisitor obviously isn't the type to post useless, negative ramblings. His opinions are on a solid base. Anyway...why the disappointment? I'd like to hear the reasons from more people who were disappointed. I obviously have my thoughts as to why but I know that everyone doesn't fit in to that view.

Well at first i was disappointed and thats because of the scope, Alien and Blade Runner set a very very high bar. And just as the Original Star Wars Movies did, the prequels had a very hard task to meet the expectations. Star Wars EP1 was a disappointment but then half way through EP2 it started to improve vastly and EP 3 Revenge of the Sith was a Good movie. And so Prometheus has the same scope for sequels. Yes i think there was and are a few plot holes, and yes i think some Characters were never really used to the full extent. But i now understand why, and thats if the movie gave us the depth of Characters that some deserved the movie would have had to had been much much longer. My major disappointment was that the story and plot was so vast, that the limits of time the movie had could not do it justice i felt the movie needed 3 hours....... But taking away Weyland Corp and the Other Crew, we are still left with Shaw and David and many questions regarding the Engineers and Xenos that a Prometheus 2 can give us great depth on those subjects without having to include other human crew who in Prometheus was there purely as a plot device to move things forwards. Some of the movie seemed rushed it seemed to flow well until after Holloway and Shaw Love Scene, after that it seemed everything was rushed, as if the movie had another 1.5 hours to go but some had to be cut to get it to fit with only a hour left. Some scenes just seemed to be cut short and have little build up, some a little odd as if something was missing.... THE GREAT NEWS IS..... That 24 minutes was cut from the movie and some of these cuts would make some scenes flow together more better, some scenes that seemed rushed could had been indeed because they was cut and edited. I understand why some scenes was cut and edited. 1) The Elder Engineers.... i think with Prometheus 2 Ridley wants to explore these guys and maybe felt after filming that the full Sacrificial Scene would have taken away that Enigma these guys have, and felt he wanted to leave these guys for Prometheus 2.... i think the Cut Scene will be added into Prometheus 2. 2) Fifield Attack.... there was a few different Fifield scenes, and what appeared to be 3 different Fifield Mutants... I guess Ridley decided that he wanted to go for the Mutant scene as the others had more Xeno DNA and he wanted to savior that DNA for the Money Shot's that being C-Section, Cuddles vs Engineer and Deacon. 3) Engineer vs Shaw, Ridley felt the full scene kind of made the Engineer not looks as powerful as for a moment Shaw gets a upper hand and escapes his clutches... but she has a Axe.... I am sure Danny Devito would be more than a match for a bare fisted Mike Tyson if he had a Axe. 4) Blood and Guts.... Ridley had said that some scenes had to be changed/cut so the movie was available to a wider audience and potentially having a movie that only 18+ can see could mean Millions and Millions of lost income from the Box Office.... Maybe thats why some fight scenes seemed lame compared to how they was described as being some brutal scenes...... we also saw in the behind scenes Fords face being CGI... i dont think that was so she gets tossed up the wall. So maybe there is a few alternative death scenes that are far more gruesome. The good news is maybe we will see such things when the movie is on DVD/Blu-Ray and its all about marketing... yes a Cert 15 or less means more potential viewers and thus more income.... but then a Blue-Ray with plenty of alternative scenes and edited out scenes would be something more for fans to look forwards to and make more money. The main thing is the potential this movie franchise now has..... Big Things come from Small Beginnings and i am sure that as Ridley explores from Prometheus to Prometheus 3 the franchise will get more EPIC as he does so. Overall a Good movie with some Plot/Character Flaws, a Masterpiece Visually with a HUGE AND EPIC Story to tell that will need Prometheus 2 and 3 to do so and i cant wait.......

[u]Engineering[/u]: It's late and I need to crash but I'll say this: I'm totally with you on the upside of people on people from both sides of the spectrum chiming in with well thought out and written posts about why they liked or disliked the film. Perhaps [u]Tremayne[/u] has some other posts that s/he wrote that were more fleshed out than his/her response to my initial post in this thread. However, his/her reply to my said post was nothing more than a flaming "Hey, dude. You're deluding yourself. Let me tell you why?" and I don't have a problem expressing that belief. I'm not a dull eyed fan boy who can't tell garbage from gold. I'll gladly go see a ridiculous movie without feeling ashamed of doing so. Case in point: 2 days I saw "Abraham Lincoln" with my ex because she wanted to see it. I'll also go see art house films, retrospectives of older films and foreign films. I’m far from being uncultured. I just got back from seeing "Prometheus" for the fourth time and I like it more with each viewing. This time around I was able to pick up a lot more on both the foreshadowing in the script/dialog and references that the film was making to both scenes that had taken place earlier in the film and to "2001". Honestly, I think that this film is way tighter than some people are willing to admit. I'm also wondering if Scott did in fact film 2 new "Alien" films at the same time. The more I see this film more I get the sense that it's one half of a 2 piece locket. I'm very happy and impressed with this film.

Come come my brothers! Let us all rejoice and be happy in our differing opinions! Take the movie Splice for instance - my friends hated it; made fun of it and still to this day give me shit about it. It's dark, sexy in an odd way and Adrien Bridge has seen better moments on the screen, but I enjoyed it nonetheless just as I despise the story of Prometheus. Not because it is a bad premise, but because it is poorly executed (like Splice) in many ways. We expected more - I expected Scarlett Johansson and got her - she just didn't deliver! I think you should watch redlettermedia.com ' s take on Episode 1 - it would shed some light on this for you! I think I deserve to be posses - I don't like this old men syndrome or the fact I might have to view it 4 times to like it - retarded!!! Mighty night!!!

From the Wikipedia article Prometheus (film) section principle photography- "In September 2011, filming moved to the Ciudad de la Luz audiovisual complex in Alicante, Spain. Shooting areas included the complex's large water tank, and a nearby Alicante beach. The complex was booked from August 22, 2011, through to December 10, with set construction occurring from August until late September. Approximately 250 people worked on the three month-long Spain shoot, generating over €1 million to the local economy" With regards to the theory/suspicion that Ridley pulled a Peter Jackson style move and filmed at least some, if not all the sequel....where is THIS FOOTAGE IN THE FILM? Count up those days. I had raised this activity long ago on this board as did member Zeta Reticula...and we got no hard responses....it just faded away. Not long after the film opened, this particular section of the Wiki article was scrubbed clean of something that I dont want to mention because it is a true spoiler....I'm not going to screw anyone out of the surprise that I found there and was blown away finding it there, couldnt believe someone at Fox just let it sit there for so long..but its gone now. If you know what I'm talking about, shame on you for saying what it is..I couldnt have been the only one who found it

@Forever War...I've been thinking the wiki info is behind whatis101112.com is all about. It's obvious imo. The dvd is coming out the Tuesday before and talk about a great marketing plan for the dvd. Prometheus has already had a ground breaking and innovative marketing campaign. There are quite a few things that point to a sequel and things already being filmed for it. To me the question is has it all been filmed or are we going to have to wait a bit for the rest to be shot. It would be a fantastic first for them to have pulled this off without people knowing about it. Another question is if they did in fact film it what does that mean in regards to a 3rd Prometheus?

Thanks for all the replies! synthetic_69 - yes you're right, I watched [b]'Alien'[/b] aged 14. There's another thing: can movies have the same impact on you in your teens/younger years as it can when you're a lot older? Anyway, I understand the movie wasn't a prequel of any kind, but I do see how it answered hypothetical questions posed by [b]'Alien'[/b] about the space-jockey and the derelict spaceship- we now know what these are - it doesn't really matter about [i]"who was the space-jockey?"..."what happened to the rest of the crew?"..."where did all the eggs come from?"..."where was the derelict ship headed for?"[/i], blah-blah-blah - some of it is answered, but most is all up to you to interpret however you like. The fact is, the Engineer-race were the creators of the bio-weapons (and these can take a multitude of forms), according to the maps, they were headed for Earth, they used exo-skeleton-suits and those 'U'-shaped-spaceships to travel in. That said, I don't think I'll go and watch it again...maybe on Blu-Ray..because even though I'm here along with all of you discussing this, let's just remember: [i]It's only a movie!"[/i]

[i]"Anyway, I understand the movie wasn't a prequel of any kind, but I do see how it answered hypothetical questions posed by 'Alien' about the space-jockey and the derelict spaceship- we now know what these are - it doesn't really matter about "who was the space-jockey?"..."what happened to the rest of the crew?"..."where did all the eggs come from?"..."where was the derelict ship headed for?", blah-blah-blah - some of it is answered, but most is all up to you to interpret however you like."[/i] I feel the same way. There's no need whatsoever to tell the story of the Space Jockey, eggs and what happened to them before we see them in Alien. For a long time I've been an advocate of this as well as Scott and co not explaining the xenos origins as I felt they've been done to death and that they fit into the same category as the Jockey and the eggs. I've really been hard headed about this and was dead set on wanting the sequels to drift further and further away from the Alien and the xenos. The main thing I've always been interested in was the Space Jockey and the questions it posed. At first, of course, I wanted to know how he got there why he had the eggs etc. But as the trailers were released and things went along I saw how much more this could be than just a prequel. I'm glad Scott chose to go this way. However, I now feel that it wouldn't be as bad as I thought if they were to explain the xenos origin. "Bad" is a strong word as I never really thought it would be bad if they did that. I would just rather see something new rather than all the things from the Alien franchise that we've been beaten over the head with. But the Engineers and xenos really go hand and hand and while I do think telling the Alien Space Jockey's story would be a bit pointless I now feel that they could tell a great new story with the xenos origin right along with it. I really felt I've been an ass being so adamant about this but to be honest I really didn't think it through. Hard to admit but I'm not the kind of person to stick to ideas simply because they were my first ideas. No matter how strongly I felt about them.

False alarm...

[u]Tremayne[/u]: A good morning to you, my internet comrade who has a wildly divergent opinion about 'Prometheus" than I do! Listen, I like having my opinions challenged. My humble and non-confrontational advice to you is that you perhaps tweak how you're interpreting other people's opinions about the film. When you responded to my initial post in this thread you were so wildly over-the-top in responding to my post that it felt (and still does) as though you were not responding to what I wrote in said post but to the simple fact that my opinion on the film was antithetical to one which you hold about the film. I've seen plenty of posts on this site that read like nothing more than human males who are physically or mentally young boys and who love to ramble on without restraint or perspective about how their theory about the black goo proves that the Engineers are asexual albino Leprechauns with elephantitis who stole the Tardis in order to travel back in time to a version of Earth where Papa John's does not yet exist. If you want to flame those f*ckers please do so because it's alright with me. But pretty please, don't thrash me when I in a very intelligent and adult way am stating why I like this film enough to see it 4 times. I may be a dork but I’m not a clueless fanboy. Mwah! As far as “Splice” goes: the film starred Adrien Brody and Sarah Polley, not Adrien Bridge and Scar Jo. As far as guilty cinematic pleasures go, “Event Horizon” is one of mine. It’s a brooding and ham fisted piece of deep space camp and I love it! [u]Forever[/u]: I hope this doesn’t make you uncomfortable but your post about Scott shooting in Spain made me feel all hot and bothered in a platonic man love kind of way. Thanks for making my morning! [u]8 Pints[/u]: Your comment about how a film can impact us both when we are young and when we are adults speaks to exactly why I have felt so excited about and drawn to “Prometheus” both as an idea (e.g. the anticipatory aspect of the film’s arrival in the US on 06.08.12) and as a reality, one that I can repeatedly re-visit in the theaters (and online and soon on Blu-Ray). We all got hosed by Lucas when he made the 3 most recent “Star Wars” films. His incompetency and arrogance polluted not just the legacy of the original 3 films, they also threw sewage on millions of people’s childlike reverence for and relationship with the original 3 films. For me “Alien” (and “Aliens”) holds a special place in my mind, heart and life, a place that few other major studio films have tread upon. In fact, I’d say that only “The Empire Strikes Back”, “Blade Runner” and “Raiders of the Lost Ark” hold as much meaning for me as the first 2 “Alien” films. When the director’s cut of “Alien” was released theatrically a few years back I eagerly went to the theater to see the “new” version of the film. I didn’t need to see “Prometheus” 4 times to convince myself that it’s a good film: I needed to see it 4 times to find the rhythms of the script and the editing, to catch more of the references the film/script was making to both itself and to other films. Although I’m not a dope I am an artist who is an intensely visual over-thinker and I sometimes needs to re-visit data in order to fully understand its content. After 4 viewings I am still amazed at Fassbender’s performance as “David”. If Scott did in fact film another “Alien” film while filming ‘Prometheus” then I think that David’s shrewd manipulation of those around him will serve as both the bridge and the backbone for the films. [u]8 Pints[/u] & [u]Engineering[/u]: Regarding “Alien”, I honestly never cared about where the Space Jockey came from. It’s not that I’m not a curious person but that film had so much going for it that I never needed to mentally engage that aspect of the story. [u]Engineering[/u]: You wrote: “But as the trailers were released and things went along I saw how much more this could be than just a prequel. I'm glad Scott chose to go this way.” I couldn’t agree with you more. I think that there’s a danger in Scott making an exact map of the events that led to the creation of the Xenos and then portraying it on film in an obvious fashion, at least in this film. I very much enjoy the fact that in “Prometheus” there are both so many tendrils that connect the film to “Alien” and so many mysteries left unresolved or unanswered about those tendrils. If there is in fact a second new “Alien” film in the can then I think that that is the place in which Scott can reveal more about the relationship between the Xenos, the Engineers and humanity. BTW, I really like what you wrote about being willing to discard earlier manifestations of a given thought process that you have had.

@synthetic_69 - aka intelligent man. my adrien bridge (brody) was an auto correct error that i forgot to proof read, because i really like to proof read my discussion/blog, etc... i know who starred in Splice - my scarlett johansson reference had to be followed back to prometheus (not splice), as that is what prometheus is to me - a scarlett johansson that doesn't deliver! perhaps i didn't make it clear enough - perhaps i was pooping and didn't have my editor present! i just may not be that smart! i'm not really challenging opinions, i just find it hard to believe sooooo many smart people can easily over look the stupid things that happen in this movie. again, everyone (for most part - no to pick on Spartacus cause he loves everything about this film - so i'm staying out of that) knows that something isn't quite right about the film and can point to the things that they do like, but continue to defend it tooth and nail instead of just saying it is ok. no amount of rambling "on my part" is going to change the fact it is ok (it is no Madagascar 3), but it is far from EPIC! i know you didn't call it that, but multiple viewings for something ok or good?! prometheus is awesome, prometheus is awesome, prometheus is awesome!!!

i do like "wildly divergent" though! ;^}

[u]Tremayne[/u]: I write the below with a smile in my heart. Additionally, I'm not being confrontational in this post. IMHO you're as locked into your take on the film being damaged goods as those you're harping on who won't yield to the fact that you're "right" about the quality and worthiness of the film. I personally have no interest in trying to convince anyone about "Prometheus" being EPIC or a classic or flawless. I simultaneously see where and why the film has both flaws and a million things working in its favor. I can understand why a casual fan or a newbie to the franchise might feel frustrated with the film. I can also understand why a fangirl or fanboy who trends towards being an overthinker would have issues with the film. That said, I can also see why other people who come from those same demographic groups might love this film, warts and all. I love the film and until I get bored or distracted or otherwise engaged I'll continue to post about its quirky bits that have gotten under my skin. I will also continue to hope that Scott did in fact film another "Alien" film during the production of "Prometheus". I don't expect or want or need you or anyone else to share those feelings or beliefs.

Hey @Inquisthead, grow up my man!

I thought your post said [i]"@inquisishithead[/i]" for a second lol. I was about to step in and let you know you were a little out of line.

I know that what I am about to say will be shouted down. But I am still going to say it. I have always been of the belief that the Space Jockey in Alien is different from the Engineers in Prometheous. In my opinon the Engineers worship the Space Jockey and his race of people who created the Engineers themselves. I think that the Engineers were the elepantine helmuts to mimick the Space Jockeys who in reality have elephantine heads. I have also stated that to support my opinion you just have to look at the size of the original Space Jockey. He is about 4 feet bigger then the engineers. People responded to that opinion by saying that Ridley reduced the size because it would be impossible for the Engineers to look believable in the film  if they were that large. Now I will support my opinion by saying that HR. Giger was influenced by HP Lovecraft who was way out there. In his stories he described creatures like the elder ones who look like octuposes ( sound familiar ) and others like the shagoths who were huge shape shifting creatures. What I am saying is that when Shaw and David get to there destination they are going to be confronted with creatures they had not imagined. They will confronted with beings who we would never picture as our creators. Ridley has used so many religious ideas and myths in Prometheous. Then why would he not use the Hindi religion also. In the Hindi religion animal type gods are numerous. The Hindi people do worhship a god that looks like an elephant. So why would Giger not design something way out there. Something that will shock us even more.

I woul defintely not go there, but why were you thinking about that?

Would never dream of shouting anyone down. He can say what he wants - even Inquishithead or whatever. I like the guy - will even buy him his next ticket, provided I'm still on here. I think I just told someone to report me - the love man; the love! You guys have a happy 4th and don't take this shit too seriously; everything here is opinion! I'll chime in disgruntled on Thursday!

I agree with everything you wrote @BigDave.

People who didnt like Prometheus: maybe the reason is that they really were waiting to see a prequel. and it isnt. Maybe they wanted a gore movie, which is not. Maybe don´t find interest in extraterrestrial life. Or maybe didnt even like 2001 Space Odyssey. They are missing a masterpiece. but, let´s remember that when Blade Runner opened it didnt rock the world. I must say I loved it since the beginning and even with Deckard (harrison ford) voice over narration.

Or maybe it really was just plain stupid in parts which brought the film down - der yer I think it might be that! But heres hoping they smooth some of the bits out in the directors cut and sequels etc......

Or maybe Crabfarts smell like cherries lol.

Please do not lump Prometheus into the same category as Blade Runner - please! @bigdave - you really like episode 3? How does that happen? And, while I agree Episode 2 showed signs of possible improvement, it still was not a good movie and Episode 3 is a flaming pile of dung hurdling through the cosmos! I will say that Prometheus is not as bad as Episode 1, but it is a far cry from epic or a masterpiece! The thing is we kind of expect Lucas to hose stuff up; he's an arsenal - we weren't really expecting it from RS. Lucas talks like a dolt and now films the same way! RS talked a good game and spun it like I was going to shit in my mouth, because that was the pitch - right? Instead my brother A L I E N worshipers I believe he shit in ours! Dick!

Disappointment? Not from me!

Yes I reckon the sequel will either show us it was all part of a clever plot that will all come together eventually - or it really was a royal fek up of universal magnitude - it really was that dumb! :P ...

@crabfatt - probably a royal frak up! The "old man director" syndrome has gotten RS!!!