Dr. Shaw, is she real?

did ridly scott say that?

It has been hidden in Alien (1979), if you read the threads I linked in the very first post of this thread, you will see how I connect them. Everything is a dream created by Tyrell as an experiment. [img]http://i50.tinypic.com/20zoemt.jpg[/img] In the line above the "Personal Data" section you will see the name Tyrell mentioned.

i still do not think she is a replicant and BLEH i would hate to think of everything as a dream.

I don't read Shaw is anything but an impressionable Scientist,,that needs to get back to her roots.... By questioning anything she keep the search going for answers,,to events that she expereinces,, Shaw should become the scientist,,we saw in the openning scenes..searching Her attachment to the Cross...will cloud her judgement..and lead to a bitter disappointments in the next episode..., Vickers.. I am still not sure her robotic status..

@Indy John Could the term "terraforming" hide the term "ovumforming" which started with the fertilization from the running engineers (sperm)?

"..fertilization from the running engineers (sperm).." That is one story element that I may not have considered,, The Running Engineers indicate that they are not Robotic,,non Emotional beings,,they have a self preservation instinct.. Shaw has already been impregnated..by one species... I am not be sure of the 'how'but some form of 'Ovumforming' is not out of the realm of this storyline.. Now Shaw is on a an Engineer's ship heading for a Engineer's world ..THere will be adventure!

@Indy John Another clue in my opinion that "Prometheus" takes place in the dream realm and was created with allegories and metaphors from the real world is this picture. [img]https://lh3.ggpht.com/-HwMeUPO9eLE/UGb48MFyMEI/AAAAAAAACZQ/Wr43Baj6jOU/s1600/prometheus_earth-wide.jpg[/img] Remember where Dr. Shaw's father died? In Africa. David8 watched it in the dreams of Dr. Shaw.

There reference to Africa(also on the supplimental audio track),,was intentional,,but I didn't connect it to anything til your mention. The holograms,,orrey scene,..confrontation with Vickers in the hallway.,and even the use of the dream visor suggest more of a dream/subliminal state than reality.. I was going to dismiss your dream state suggesttion,,,but when I review the few items that support ,this thread I notice that they all involve David,,,, Maybe I am dreaming!

@Indy John Or maybe you are not dreaming at all! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [img]http://masempul.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/urn-glyphs.jpg[/img] Someone in this forum mentioned a very strange detail. Supposing that we are in the dream of David and the crew of Prometheus is connected to this dream, then if the temple room is actually David's head in the dream, with the black goo being a metaphor of the black matter of the human brain responsible for our intellectuality and the white liquid a metaphor of the white matter responsible for neuro-transmitting signals, then this explains the strange glyphs that are carved on the urns. So far, I wrote why I believe that the “Prometheus†universe is a subset (because it exists in the dream world) of the “Blade Runner†universe, now this idea that will follow makes perfect sense. The strange glyphs we saw on the urns that contained the “mysterious†black goo and the white liquid, are clearly of Sino-Tibetan or Sinitic origin, there is an unmistakable resemblance. In “Blade Runnerâ€, we saw that Roy Batty visited a place called “Chew's Labâ€, there he found a Chinese scientist who was creating eyes for replicants in a refrigerator room (does this remind you of the frozen temple room that should not be opened?), with the temperature below zero to preserve the genetic material that Dr. Chew was working on. Was the brain of David8 designed by Tyrell and “Western†scientists, but in fact was assembled with Chinese parts by Chinese people like Hannibal Chew? It is already happening today, everything we use from cell phones to laptops is made in China with “Western†technology. In “Blade Runner†we saw that Chinese and other Asiatic people had overwhelmed the streets of L.A. making the life so difficult to cope with in an already poor America, showing to us how much we can expect the world to change in the next decades. You remember of course the motto that was being spoken all the time “Helping America into the new world......â€, the American dream was long dead in the movie and in the off world colonies things were not so good, the creation and design of the combat models were another argument in favor of this not so peaceful world outside Earth. Now take a look at this photo and make the connections between, the frozen temple and the frozen lab in "Blade Runner" along with the strange writing on the urns, notice the Chinese writing character on the cube of the following picture. [img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110421012229/bladerunner/images/c/cd/Images-1.jpg[/img]

Your storyline is following a thread so thin..that ir could disappear...except that the clues you mention do seem to fit in. I just hope they are not clues,,searching for a story...but actual leads for Prometheus fans to follow. I couldn't see the clues you mention on my own....What is that song from the 1970's...Dream Weaver'? Maybe that was an impressionable age for Ridley..

Prometheus should have ended with the song "[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSiU1T_w0-8]One more kiss, dear?[/url]", remember the lyrics? "Until tomorrow, goodbye" meaning that "Until we bring the hell described in Blade Runner, sleep well dear world", message of the elite corporations to us! Are we the replicants after all?

@Indy John Maybe it was not a song that inspired Ridley Scott, but this [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Androids_Dream_of_Electric_Sheep%3F]book[/url] from which "Blade Runner" was inspired and expanding it with the above ideas it also inspired "Prometheus".

Ridley was almost giving orders to David directly through his projection of himself, in some ways, onto the Weyland character. It's like a game of chess going on between Lindelof and the company (Fox/Vickers) for control of the Alien series after Ridley retires and Ridley realizes this... Before he leaves he's seeking to immortalize himself through his art, now that he's become the current King of the series... and the film is secretly getting at this. A brief resurrection to the Alien series before the head of Weyland is killed and the lineage is severed, Ridley is hoping to retire and pass the torch or at least lead Fox by example, leaving them with a lot to work with. The adventure will continue and we get to find out what happens to Weyland corp now that the creator and king is gone. It's being related to the situation beyond the film with Fox, their past mistakes leading the series to death, and being forced to have to re-create the Alien genetics/design and the whole universe. Upgrading the series, hopefully, by adding to the original design and mixing in new elements in a balanced way. It's even a game of chess where Lindeloff/David is playing against himself... Lindelof was brought in not only at Ridley's orders, that's only part of the truth, also at Fox's because Ridley needed a certain person to eventually leave in charge that can run a very specific sort of campaign and Fox may have wanted Lindelof above all others. If Ridley is Weyland, Lindelof is David and was only following orders during the rewrite; following orders for now. He's nowhere near David in real life so he might need to leave the series or get a lot more mentoring first. Prometheus was a collective effort although much of it seems to have stemmed from Ridley's vision, Ridley's ideas. If Lindelof has a team of people behind him some of his ideas are ok, bad team, bad writing and bad ideas and we get things like Cowboys and Aliens. Lindelof needs a mentor or a good team of people working with him if he wants to keep writing sci-fi. Lindelof also doesn't mind that it hurts to deceive fans with red herrings, and this is exactly what Ridley needed to complete his story. Neither of them want things to be like the Star Wars prequels-- too predictable. That's why it can't all be a dream. It has to be half-real and half not real, like David with his emotional understanding or what could be bio-mechanics if this android's artificial head/cybernetic brain are slightly different than the David7 and the later androids. Possibly a combination of replicant and android designs... This android line may turn out to be Weyland's greatest mistake and the new monsters of the series. A bio-mechanical prototype Weyland had developed, secretly hoping to only use the replicant design for part of the head/mind to still maintain control while making his "son" closer to real with each David incarnation... A rebellious half-android half-replicant mind, that has been designed in the ideal self-image of Weyland and programmed by himself and the Weyland-Yutani company. Which means there has to be a much better plan than the semi-predicted ending to Lost (many people think they were all dead the whole time but only the flash-sideways in the last season was the true purgatory). Lindelof's comments about the island not being purgatory are entirely true... It's more like the cork that sits above purgatory and shares links with purgatory and the afterlife; is an entrance to purgatory, as shown by the bottle thing in the last season, also very real at the same time.

As others have noted Weyland could somewhat represent Hephaestus from greek mythology. The character who has the fire in his forge and ends up allowing Prometheus to acquire the fire. If we apply this to the Lindelof=David thing, David being made in Weyland's image, and any possible upcoming mentoring themes-- then Lindelof may end up with the fire Ridley/Weyland had access to and Lindelof/David was tasked to play around with. As well Ridley's own son may step in to fulfill the literal father-son themes as he may be being mentored to continue the series too, should he choose. But it'll be different than Weyland's relationship with his "son' or Ridley's new partner and protege Lindelof. Fox is being shown how to properly weave a hybrid series together by Ridley, so Lindelof needed to know enough of the plan so far... the earlier draft of the script just gave them a base to go on for the characters and formed a rough outline of what Ridley was willing to tell spaights about the full plan. They chose to do away with facehuggers and all that because Spaights had the order of things all wrong to where part 2 would lead so things were shuffled between the original idea for two movies... and things were mutated. When Lindelof got on board the deception could start full-swing. Lindelof and Ridley both made a point of referencing Blade Runner multiple times, maybe not only because it's a great film by Ridley. A film Lindelof admired as a child. Both of them also hinted at liking Lawrence of Arbia before the clearer statements about the actual connections to Lawrence of Arabia within the film came about. Damon hints at the Bladerunner themes and connected universe idea just as Ridley did in the past. Something tells me the story he told about always thinking they were connected is a little stretching of the truth to fit a narrative they're constructing. They've hinted this whole time that Tyrell may exist in the same universe with very subtle things, and this is how a hybrid series should be created. In a way where everything connects in a logical way, eventually, and it's not a mindless mixing of monster vs monster... in this thread alone we can see Tyrell's name from Alien 1979. Lindelof is like David because so far he's mainly been following Ridley's orders, as he's mentioned and admires the film Ridley/Weyland is associated with. It was mainly Ridley's ideas that went into the rewrite, but like David he knows much of the full plan for the sequel now. It's just like how David and Weyland both quote the same great movie (Lawrence of Arabia), they seem to bring attention to the Bladerunner and the connected universe idea... there are reasons we should be paying attention to any and all Lawrence of Arabia connections that have gone unnoticed. Bladerunner 2 happening now is no mistake and this is all being carefully planned I believe. It may even take two studios coming together, Fox and Universal, to make it all happen (Weyland and Yutani in the film), connecting the series in a few bigger ways but not having to make it a monster vs monster film. Connecting it in a balanced way "a bridge and not an end". Making it a monster of a series. The human rulers in each franchise are already monsters in their own right... David and the androids have been made a little too close to their creator... and Weyland was worried about the replicant design lol. What the bio-androids could secretly do to humanity will make the Replicants' minor uprisings look like child's play before this is all done, only part of a small beginning to a much bigger universe. Another potential reason for the uprising that begins now that the king is dead. David will quickly subjugate not only all of humanity but the Engineers as well, challenging the Elders and the true gods to become the new God. When the king died David imagined he'd be free, his version of Paradise. There would be a little bit more to David's near-immortality, and a good hidden reason for why the androids in the future are less advanced,completely mechanical and not as emotion, and have to pretend to be humans.

Weyland didn't mind the possible consequences when he brought back the replicant design for the heads of the emotional androids because he wanted a real son so badly. He went back on his word and tried to combine the designs in secret. This is why David doesn't know he's more real than he is, even he has been implanted with false beliefs... instead of false memories. Shaw had to believe she was completely real. David was told he had no soul and was not real prematurely, he may be partially "real" or becoming a "real boy"(Pinnochio ref). Shaw's the closest thing to a daughter Weyland will ever have... a step up from Vickers... They had to have big egos to some extent, even the completely human characters so some could be easier manipulated. And Weyland thinks this version of David still isn't real enough... not even real enough to use in the way he secretly uses Vickers and Shaw... thinks he has no true soul, David wasn't going to be the"closest thing to a son" unless he included the replicant brain plan... Now Weyland doesn't realize his mistake allowing the monster to come to life, allowing it to trick itself into believing it is real. Which frees what was supposed to keep the emotions and his logic separate. When science and emotion are combined evidence gets ignored or the hypothesis and observations can be heavily influenced.. He's a Frankenstein/ Modern Prometheus reference in a way. "It's alive" and Holloway was wrong, Weyland was wrong in a different way: David's emotions are combining with his android side and making him more and more real because he believes it to be so and the biological replicant mind is actually in him. He didnt think Shaw had it in her too... More human than human. More human than most androids we've met so far. And secretly more human i.e. more emotional than most of the Prometheus crew. Weyland had hoped to upgrade the android and replicant designs by keeping it partially mechanical to retain control, while still giving him a close to real son. This backfires big time. Weyland's creations: David, Vickers, and Shaw will be Weyland's ultimate mistake, the death and rebirth of Weyland's company and Tyrell's legacy; as well as the cause of Weyland corp becoming an even more monstrous entity: Weyland-Yutani. The ability to choose what to believe that Weyland implanted Shaw with transfers over to David in a negative way, but it takes a long time for Shaw and Vickers 2 to come close enough to get through to the David 8s after all the destruction of some of Earth's colonies begins... Big things the company has been hiding. Like Dr. Frankenstein, Weyland gave David the wrong brain and it accounts for much of his actions. Weyland didn`t think that it worked and believed a version of what he implanted David with, that he could understand emotions but not feel them. Something in the replicant design is almost guaranteed to eventually lead to rebellion... combining it with the logic of his android side make him hate his creator and want to kill him even faster. But the programming that comes along with his form of bio-mechanical mixing holds him back until Weyland is dead... when he imagines he`ll be free.

That's very interesting but in this future replicants don't exists but androids do. And we know that the doctor bled blood not that tell tale white goo.

@Mala'kak Very confusing thoughts, I thought I was the one with complex thinking! @Indy John That snake in the temple room, definitely looks like a bleeding eye! Remember the dialogue in Blade Runner? Hannibal Chew: Eyes, I just do eyes! [img]http://www.apocprod.com/wp-content/gallery/article-pictures/043012-prometheus-international.jpg[/img] All these strange creatures are of course symbolic since we are in the dream of David. Take a look at a cartoon diagram of a bionic eye. [img]http://www.stanforddaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/NEW.052412.ProstheticEye.WEB_.jpg[/img] Article [url=http://www.stanforddaily.com/2012/05/24/researchers-develop-bionic-eye-implant/]here[/url]. @Linus Spacehead If you read the thread from the beginning you will see that I suggest that this future in the head of David8 and everything is possible, even him imagining that he is human and mortal.

Here is another strange similarity between "Prometheus" and "The Matrix". [img]https://lh3.ggpht.com/_mE4WNHvoFmY/TCrCTpqaI1I/AAAAAAAAAvY/6-9IFXCVYN0/s1600/neo-wakes-in-matrix-pod.jpg[/img] [img]https://geektyrantsquared.squarespace.com/storage/2011-post-images/prometheus-bts-engineerhd5.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/neo-wakes-up-within-the-matrix.jpg[/img] Is "Prometheus" a virtual reality world after all? I have presented many arguments!

[b]Birth Trauma reminder.......[/b] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Watch close to the metal female breasts over the engineer's head in cryostasis (2nd picture in the above post, the one is exactly over the letters), this must definitely be a metaphor of a baby (the engineer) in the mother's body, with all this cables connecting it to the "mother" to be fed! So the space jockey I will say it once more is the baby connected with the umbilical cord to the feeding mechanisms of the female body, so this "sometimes in order to create one must first destroy" addresses the destruction in the colony that was going to happen (the interior where the baby is held) and the creation of a new life (destination Earth). So my theory is a lot more valid now, a baby was going to be born and where would it go? Of course to earth, that's why the engineer's in the hologram are a metaphor of the sperm heading to the ovum and the whole movie is an allegory. Wow, well done Ridley Scott you are a genius, everything was in plane sight. [img]https://geektyrantsquared.squarespace.com/storage/2011-post-images/prometheus-bts-engineerhd5.jpg[/img]

@geopap: [i][quote]Why did she say it? To which cord was she referring to? David8 is an autonomous unit, the cord that connects them in this virtual world maybe?[/quote][/i] Weyland told David "try harder" because Weyland wants to know the properties and effects of fluid in a human body, what is the goo and what can do, maybe of "fountain of youth". So David goes to Holloway, carry on a mortal experiment with the goo on Holloway body.