Comparing Engineers

Also there is a long period of time between the Engineers of the beginning and end of the film. You may believe that there are 2 different factions, but that would be like thinking that one person of the 19th century is from a different faction that the person of the 21st century. My point is that we don't know if there are two factions or only is evolution, and if there was a war...Who were the enemies? other Engineers? their creators? simply we don't know...

Only with another director would exist the possibility of see predators in the sequel. I don't know where That notion comes from, but I could bet that Ridley Scott will not include predators in the sequel. I think it's just imagination of fans, nothing more...but like I said, who knows if another director wants.

@Ellen, I'm sorry but I must quote your words :D [quote]regardless a Predator twist may be exactly what this franchise needs, much better than some action packed crap where shaw arrives on Paradise and in a nearly impossible script.....[/quote] For me action packed crap is AVP (especiallyAVPR) and the only thing that this franchise needs is get away from the Queen and the insects cannon fodder for space marines...because much of the essence of Giger was lost. Also, how you can think that predators would be an interesting twist for the sequel? They are hunters and the Engineers are creators and destroyers of life...besides there are many ways to make a deep history...but not necessarily the predators would help, I think it's time for new things. And returning to the easter eggs in Alien 3, well, they could put a magical royal egg in the shuttle and kill Hicks and Newt, so they could do anything. In Alien R, they could have found a way, but most likely is that they were not interested and I guess that something similar happened with Prometheus. At any rate in my humble opinion the predator may be an interesting element...but NOT as in AVP...the issue of versus is just a dog fight...I believe that these Preds can fit in a smart way...I just hate the silly premise of Paul W. S. Anderson, yet I hate even more the idea of the Brothers Strause.

I believe this quote, taken from this[url=http://www.craveonline.com/film/interviews/190017-fundamental-mysteries-damon-lindelof-on-prometheus-and-star-trek-2] Interview with with Damon Lindelof[/url], says it all regarding the presence or lack thereof of a Predator in Prometheus and any sequels: [i]"[...] Look, as to what’s canon and what’s not canon, for me as a screenwriter it’s transcended by Ridley as a director. Here’s the thing. Ridley invented this. He created this Alien universe. He birthed it out of his own heart and soul. So he gets to do whatever it is he wants to do and he wanted to use Weyland as a conduit in the story, and was not interested at all when I said to him, “You know, Weyland was a character in one of the Alien Vs. Predator movies,”[b] he just sort of looked at me like I had just slapped him in the face. That was the beginning, middle and end of all Alien Vs. Predator references in our story process.[/b]"[/i]

That's right, Ridley created this universe and has full authority to decide what is canon and what not. In fact the idea is preposterous, but if there are still doubts the interview posted by Svanya is sufficient evidence to understand, once and for all, that Ridley Scott wanted to show something different because: Engineers + Xenomorphs + ancient astronauts + Pyramids and Weyland = AVP with a bigger budget. SO, DEFINITELY! THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT AVP IN PROMETHEUS...but sure you can find some stuff from Star Beast there. ;)

ellen well now im glad im not he only one thats seen it,seems like no one wants to discuss that ? is it taboo?why is there a predator face in head room?

its apparent to me that the engineers are cowards,running ,yes engineers are creators not warriors,so in that they would have to creat a warrior class to get things done,science fiction leads to science fact,outside the box thinkers,not a narrow scope only on the visible path.

Neutrino- Taboo depends on who you talk to. The Predator debate has gone on here for some time, and for some, me included, it doesn't fit, its a different style of Sci Fi. You'll find some here who don't care for anything but Alien and Prometheus. I'm in that camp, too. I want dark surrealism and chilling outcomes. I love action, don't get me wrong. With the running scene, I think the idea was to show there was something [i]even the Engineers[/i] were afraid of, but not show the thing itself. The possibilities are endless. This could be among the reasons Ridley cut the axe fight near the end, to have the one visible threat to them be the Eitr and its offspring. Remember, he gets shot I think a couple times aboard the Juggernaut and all it does is irritate him on a really epic scale. These guys are not sissies I assure you. I like to think the Engineers were made to do the heavy lifting for some more terrible race, specifically to deal with the Morb and the Eitr from which it comes.

@Neutrino, it's not Taboo (we even have an [url=http://www.aliensversuspredator.net] AVP site)[/url], I am just posting information I find on the subject and everything I have found says it isn't there. None of the creators have said there is a Predator in the movie either. When and if they do I will be happy to post it. Neutrino and Ellen, what would be really cool is if one of you could post a screenshot of the image you are seeing, so that everyone could see it. Oh, btw Neutrino I agree with you it does look like gills on the Engineer suits, and I also believe those are pressure suits like fighter pilots wear. @Shambhala; Yep the story seems to be based on the original script that was to be used for Alien, written by Dan O'Banon, called StarBeast.

Definitely different factions of engineers. I see the ancients as The Base of their society based with a Cosmic Johnny Appleseed philosophy and the biosuit engineers as technocrats using the goo to advance their agenda. There was no "accident" on LV223. The Ancients knew the biosuits were going to destroy their creation on Earth and did a preemptive strike on the LV223 Engineers. One ship escapes and sets down on LV426 after the crew show signs of infection (like the headless holo engineer) and the warning beacon set for his brethren. The eggs are on the derelict are little dicey to figure out... It really comes down to the source of the lore. Is it Alien? Alien+Aliens? The Franchise? The Franchise plus AVP (please no) ? The eggs were present on the derelict ship and the Nostromo as well (deleted scenes), there was no queen revealed... Hmm I seem to remember there was a sort of stasis field over the eggs in Alien as well, perhaps it was put up by the infected engineers before the chestbusted... damn.. now I am gonna have to watch em' both again...

O'Bannon started it all, Giger imagined it, but they didn't follow it through the end (sadly): Alien was all about the survival plot, Aliens had the bioweapon premise and a great deal of insight to the xenomorph's life cycle, Alien 3 derived to the bambi version and enlightened about it's strenght and instinct, Alien Resurrection had the interspecies mutation factor and suggested that a human could become an Alien; AvP was an intergalactic war of the worlds (human, alien and predator) off the concept of Predator by the Thomas duo, AvP Requiem followed again the whim of Paul Anderson and the lead of similar parasitic host present in Predator 2 as well as depicting predators like some kind of space swat wiping the galaxy from the alien menace. Predators had yet a different storyline exchanging the alien hunt to the human hunt by the predators. Basically anything and everything is possible in the Alien-Predator universe as it is the work of several individuals, no point in trying to see the big picture. Tolkien wrote a masterpiece, the films were words coming to life, no interpretation needed, everything was laid out. Each Alien, AvP or Predator film is to me each and every one a gem on its own merit. The only real question here is why do writers suffer from axed scripts from the very beginning? Money concerns, mostly, directing issues also. Prometheus started another God versus Science debate and the possibility of weapons of mass destruction at a galactic level - a really good theme, but not as good as Jon Spaihts originally wrote it, I believe.

Yes, I must ask. Where is this "predator face"? I've seen this movie many times. Never seen anything remotely close to a Predator in it.

Hello, everyone! This is my first post on this site, so be gentle. :-) I have seen Prometheus many times now, so here is my take on the 2 different Engineers that we see in the film. I believe that the Engineer we see in the opening scene represents a group of Engineers that worship and create "Life." They also nurture and protect it by guiding it during its infancy, as evidenced in the pictorals and drawings by early man. The Engineers on LV-223 have a completely different point of view. There are some who have blogged on this site that believe these Engineers represent the military wing of the Engineers. This is a distinct possibility, however I have another theory: the LV-223 Engineers worship and create "Death." I believe this because of the fresco in the Head chamber depicting a xenomorph and its life stages. They believe that the xenomorph is a physical manifistation of Death. Also, there is a kind of "altar" with a mysterious green stone on it just a few yards in front of the fresco. Both types of Engineers have the same black goo, they just have fundamental differences on its application. The only thing that I don't understand is why would the Life-worshipping Engineers point to a star system used by the Death-worshipping Engineers as a place to stage their attacks? Can anyone speculate on this?

Welcome kevthedm! I was never on board with the faction thing, just seemed too busy a plot device, but your life/ death idea works for me.  I figured the pressure suit we see on the last Engineer was either a manipulation of the Alien DNA, for protection from the volatile substances they were housing, or SJ tech for the same reason. It seems like an engineered variant of MORB biology ( I'm using MORB as an alternative to Xenomorph, a term some of us don't like ). Those cave paintings and tablets seem to me one of two things: either a warning, or a vain depiction of the cradle of human life. I think humans originated on LV223, as tissue ( cloned from Engineer DNA )  for their experiments with the MORB. Upon working with their "samples", they became vain ( as David seems to be becoming. His arc drives a lot of my ideas about this..) and decided to play God on other worlds. I think if there's a conflict, it's between them and the Space Jockeys. I think the Engineers are themselves small cloned tools, designed by the SJ much the way we would design, say, a hammer. A really incredible hammer. 

It could be that they are divided by faith, but rather than to a God, it's simply life and death. That is their God, universal constants, Yin and Yang. That sounds suitably alien and enlightened to me. Another member suggested the Engineers created death, but their mortality contradicts that, unless their creation somehow got ahold of them, which does seem to be the case. I work the Space Jockeys into the story because until shown otherwise I like to believe they are the Creators Shaw will ultimately face. Many stories have been written about the horrors of true immortality, that it is of itself a form of eternal suffering, and that idea dovetails for me with the various clues in Prometheus. The Morb could just be a byproduct of their studies, a form of waste. There are many Earthly parallels with the Engineers, that left a lot of people dissatisfied, but for me it presents the idea that power is a universal pursuit and it's pitfalls are universal as well, it's just a matter of scale, another tie in with the myth of Prometheus.

In the beginning they seem like angels in the service of someone else. Obviously I could be wrong, but anyway Ridley said that they were created by God. If this appear in the sequel, then, I hope it's some kind biomechanical entity, creature, machine or whatever.

Pluss there is that mural with the Deacon in crucifixion position...that seems to keep a meaning beyond the life cycle.

The opening scene features the "old school" engineers as they visit our planet and "seed" it. We evolve (some would disagree). We decide to visit them; however, they've gone through a rather nasty change themselves. Seems they weren't paying attention to Dwight and allowed their military industrial complex to get out of hand...so much so, that it just about wiped them out. They became so enamored of their little beastly weapons that they created a cult-like faction (thus the crucifix-like xenomorph hanging on the wall in the chamber). So hibernating Engineer wakes up to find these moronic humans not only looking for selfish answers but also treating one another badly. He doesn't need to understand English; he's advanced. And he's advanced enough to know (as Kurt Vonnegut knew) that the Earth or universe would probably be better off without us. We're a lousy animal. And the Engineer knows this. To conclude, oh, please, please don't tie this in with Predator.

If we're not dealing with two different factions of Engineers, then perhaps the Engineer we saw in the opening scene represented a time when they believed in the creation of life. They seeded many worlds, including Earth. For thousands of years, they dedicated themselves in guiding the lifeforms that they created. The star system that's depicted on the different drawings, engravings, etc. found by Shaw and Halloway were truly meant as an invitation. Perhaps it was one final step that an Engineer-created species had to take before thay could be considered as equals among the Engineers and other space-faring races. Unfortunately, somewhere along the way the Engineer's ideology of creating life shifted. Why? No one knows. Perhaps they had a change of heart and realized that they had no right to play God by seeding other worlds, creating life. Or, they had seen how other races that they created evolve and were not satisfied with the outcome. They were hoping that the Engineers would one day embrace their children as equals, hoping that they would have advanced, not just in technology, but also in how we treated one another. That's why the Engineer on LV-223 had nothing but disdain for the humans that wanted to meet him; he saw that they were not mature enough and were therefore another "bad crop" that needed to be eradicated. They have spent many centuries trying to identify all of the worlds that they have seeded in order to destroy them with the same black goo that created them. In other words, they were trying to erase their mistakes. Earth was suppose to have been wiped out 2,000 years ago, but something happened on LV-223 that made that impossible.

Kev the DM- I love this post..... the opening scene is unclear on setting. You also raise some interesting points about the glyphs. Im going to post a new discussion with some of my new questions. Please post and tell us what you think.