Prometheus 2 plot, possible just speculation not FACT

UPDATE INCLUDES XENOMORPH INFORMATION

The contact that i had with the Source had claimed they made a few comments regarding Alien Covenant in relation to the older Prometheus 2 Draft.

They said that there seems to be a number of things carried over from the earlier drafts but they have not in any way seen the John Logan draft, but themes and parts seem to have been carried over.

The Covenant name, does have a connection to element/theme of the movie. They said that it would fit in part with some of the old drafts and especially regarding the Agenda of Shaw and her Questions as she wants to know why was Mankind Forsaken and Abandoned, the Paglen/Green Draft would have seen them getting to a World Related to the Engineers but it is not the Homeworld as per say, but the Outpost for the Galaxy. And they would have met up with multiple beings and we would find that there is a multiple tier system to creation, and our creation is nothing special.  Shaw was in a state of disappointment at what she found by going to LV-223 as far as what she had hoped they would find, but she still wishes to pursue faith but what she finds out will Question her faith even more because she will get somewhat answers but they are not what she would have expected and futher goes against the ideology she had regarding our creation by God, we are not special,  the Creators have a Monogamous view on creation.

But they would have met a number of beings.

They can not speculate about the Covenant Crew and when/how they arrive at Paradise, but the Paradise David/Shaw arrived at in Green/Paglen draft was towards the Galactic Centre past the Pillars of Creation and a World within the Constellation of Ophiuchus.

They said the old draft had 3 main Plot Points and by that, Prometheus really had two. The main one being the Journey of the Prometheus Ship and its crew and what it discovers and ultimately its fate.  They said that Shaw and Davids Quest was not the main Plot, and Shaws role was on the small part but yet a big role.  The movie was more about David but the main theme for the movie was Creation, Rebelion, Forbiden Knowledge and how such knowledge corrupts and the use of such knowledge leads to not only getting burnt by playing with fire but also punishment for possessing forbidden knowledge and rebellion.

And this is on multiple levels, its a tale of repeated Father/Son and Creator/Creation Conflict where the one sees the other as getting weaker and wishes to dethrone and replace the Order of things and in-turn repeat the Cycle.  The Prometheus Mythos and Fables fit this theme and so does the Biblical accounts as far as Paradise Lost take on them.

That the events of those Mythos and Religions have a basis but they are not to be a basis considered in regards to Earth... its Pans wider than that, and events had occurred but its case of which Generation did this occur and where does our True Origin Stem from...  and the Fables are set with Mankind, Gods on Earth.... but as we find out Paradise is not as Mankind has associated with regards to Earth... and that there is not just ONE EARTH in that context.

The idea was also to not only showcase Creation, but creation is more than merely the Sacrificial Scene,  this Scene could not have no benefit or work as it would have on a Baron Waste of a World... and so these Engineers Terraform Worlds too, which the Process is similar but more Advanced than we saw in Aliens...  the Engineers Manipulate Storms as the process these can make a Planet in Terraforming Stage Hostile  they can do more than merely what Weylands attempts do... The Engineers Terraforming can drastically Manipulate a Climate, drastically change the the Climate not only in Temperatures but could control how baron a world can be, or how wet it can be and that perhaps the Great Floods of the Past, and Iceages are not Accident they are Manufactured for the purpose of setting up a New Enviroment to begin Creation or Start over.

There was the idea to lay seeds that there was more to these Bald Humanoid beings than simply being a race who create and possess deadly Bio-Weapons to use against Threats, or in fits of Jealously.   They don’t want to spoil things, but yes the Engineers are not Gods, they are not even the top of the Hierarchy.  But part of the common theme... which Davids role is also placed within this repeating theme....  and Prometheus did have clues to the above in regards to David and the Engineers.

Regarding the Xenomorph...

They said Green/Paglen Drafts were not based on a Xeno movie, in fact Technically we don’t even get the Xenomorph  but its not needed, Prometheus did not have the Xenomorph but was trying to set clues to it and the movie had clues just they could have been emphasised better.  The Prometheus 2 idea would have been to loosely connect events of Engineers, Xeno and LV-223 and there would be TWO related Monsters, one a previous event the other a event Post Davids arrival....

They said that the Movie would only contained 20% Xenomorph related scenes,  they would be done in similar context to Prometheus but more DNA related and in a way thats less ambigious, but they said its not going to be a Spaights Alien Engineers but they said even Alien Engineers was not really a Xenomorph movie, but they consider Prometheus 2 to have been a more Xenomorph movie than Prometheus.

Prometheus only had the ONE Monster related although other clues where abundant in the ideas,  they said when we talk about MONSTER that the Shaw C-Section to Deacon Chest Buster should be considered as ONE MONSTER....  the movie also had Two More Monsters as a way of explaining and giving clues to creation... but was not what they call Xeno Creations as far as being close to the aim of a Xenomorph but are still valuable clues to the Processes.

They said Prometheus was more a Origin movie than Spaights Alien Engineers, as far as showing is what is involved... Alien Engineers just showed the aftermath.. of creation and experiments but had mild clues to HOW... but mainly covered WHY... They said Alien Engineers had what you would consider THREE MONSTERs... plus you could consider Fifield in that to make it a 3+1 and Prometheus was a 1+ mild 2 kind of Xeno  related Monsters.

Prometheus 2 has mild clues... but without spoiling anything it would mainly be the aim to show TWO MONSTERS but these again only 20-25% total of the actual Plot/Draft, they said the Monsters they knew the One Design was going to be a Fresh Take on HR Gigers Necornom IV the design not far off the unused Ultramorph and the other Monster would also be based on a early/unused concept... both would look different as in we can see the Xenomorph in the whole Franchise as looking very much similar including AVP movies....  But these Two Monsters are to a degree different but then they both look like the Xenomorph in kind of a hybrid way as if the Xenomorph was a hybrid of both ideas.  They will not say which Event is which Monster and they also said when the Term TWO MONSTERS is used we should look at more to it than that but that we need to accept it as Two Monsters the same as Egg, Face Huger, Chest Buster and Xenomorph and then Trilobite Fetus, Adult Trilobite and Deacon Chest Buster events are to be considered TWO MONSTERS

But also that Spaights draft had shown Three Xenomorph related Monsters but the actual Xeno related body count was 5 Monsters... in 3 different varieties...   They said so while we have TWO MONSTERS it would not have been a Alien and Alien 3 but it certainly was not a Aliens or AVP Flick....  More like a mix of Spaights and Lindeloffs Xenomorph encounters but not as  much as Spaights as it has one less Monster and also the One Monster is a set up.

They said that Prometheus did hold a lot of clues to what the process would entail,  and they said that you don’t have to Show the Space Jockey and his Eggs to be able to get the Answers to HOW/WHY and the When is the more Important Question.... And that the Process is something than can lead to similar things and its a process that can be re-created provided you have the Knowledge and Tools to do so.

But the movie was to be less on the side of Xenomorphs.... they said Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Alien R where Xenomorph Movies....  Alien Engineers would have too but also explored other theme... Prometheus decided to ambiguously give us a Xeno theme while setting up something else and Prometheus Pandemonium would have evolved that other direction setting up seeds to evolve into something else, but it would also given clues to the Xenomorph in a less ambiguous manner than Prometheus did...  and while it wont feature as much Xenomorph DNA as Alien Engineers it would give more clues to HOW/WHEN and WHY which Alien Engineers did not really get into detail with and left ambiguous too.

I’ve forgotten a few things said, maybe they come back to me if so i will update but i think thats most of it.

Big Dave: Having a few mysteries is alright, that’s what made Alien work but things got to make sense which is what they didn't do in Prometheus. One of the problems with Prometheus was that things were too ambiguous so they didn't make sense but I think that it was because of bad writing who ever did that. I also hope that they won't make everything too obvious but there is a need for a balance there.

I am glad that the answers that Shaw gets goes against her beliefs because they are dumb. It is good that they have given Shaw a smaller role this time. The creation and forbidden knowledge can be interesting but that depends on how they deal with it.

As far as terraforming that is something that they had in Aliens, right? That was human terraforming so it could be a bit interesting that they show a bit about how the Engineers do that in contrast to human terraforming (which would be a nice nod to Aliens) but as I have written before that is not my main interest when it comes to this movie.

Did Prometheus have clues about the beings above the Engineers? If so that was very badly done because I didn't see anything of these hints (but that wasn't my main interest in the movie so that probably has got something to do with it).

The Xeno doesn't have to be the main focus in this movie IMO. As far as I know the Engineers have made more monsters than that so that would be interesting to see. The Squid alien was interesting and you can say that the Engineers with the goo was somehow responsible for the Fifield zombie but the Fifield zombie was very disappointing (although I understand that they wanted to move away from the Xenos in a way). One thing that would be cool if they would have a monster that the Engineers did that doesn’t look like a Xeno at all, that would give the engineers a bigger role and would show that they can do more monsters than just the Xeno and Xeno related things (like a Xeno family if you prefer to call it that). Maybe the monsters wouldn’t have more in common than the fact that the Engineers did them? I think that would be the best and it could work if they do it in a good way and really think it through.

As far as 20% Xeno related scenes that is alright since one fifth is kind of large anyways. To those that want more Xeno in this maybe at least some of them will think that the amount is alright. If they are done more clearly than how they were done in Prometheus it would be a good thing. Speaking of Xenos I still wish that they would have kept the Fifield Xeno in Prometheus but someone made a messed up decision.

Maybe the Spaights script wasn't a Xeno movie but it was still a lot better than what we got on screen (which is not to say that it was perfect). The characters in the Spaights script were a lot better and to me that is the most important thing because it is those that we are supposed to see ourselves in, right?

I think that they should at least show when the Space Jockey takes off with the ship, it would make sense.

I think you come from the certain fanbase that was disappointed about the Xeno connection.... some did want it even more than maybe you would have liked and also it ending with the Space Jockey...

Spaights seemed to hint at such a scene... but would have left plot holes unless the Engineer ship crashed a bit further than those Engineer Complexes... mind you after Alien  it took the Colony on Hadleys Hope a long time to discover the near by Derelict so who knows.

But surely a crashed human ship near by would have been detected when the Nostromo or at very least Hadleys Hope was set up on LV-426

"Did Prometheus have clues about the beings above the Engineers? If so that was very badly done because I didn't see anything of these hints"

Its one of those where it never really did, its mainly Ridley Scots comments that pointed to this.... Prometheus just mainly showed it when you look at how David said that LV-223 was not the Engineers Homeworld.... and Shaw in spite of finding the Engineers all dead, and wanted to destroy us and were mortal after all and we was as Holloway said just a experiment that anyone with a petre dish and DNA could do.

Shaws answer was WHO CREATED THEM!  The Engineers.

After Prometheus came out Ridley had made a few comments.... he hinted that the Elders Scene was cut because it was not needed and he wanted to not meet God in the first movie... he also hinted these Elders did not look as Godlike as maybe Godlike beings should be.

Right away this would show the Engineers are not God, but it does not mean the Gods are much different as we could be looking at how the Egyptians view of Gods where Pharaohs are Gods incarnate.

Ridley had dropped a few clues, calling Engineers Fallen Angels... which if this is the case then Angels are not the Top of the Creation Tree.

Noomi Rappace commented on not long after Prometheus was on DVD about a sequel and she is interested in where Ridley will be taking them and that they would be meeting God.. or maybe the Devil.

The source in March 2015 gave a lot of information loosely to what the plan was, that seemed back up Ridleys idea after Prometheus but go against his comments at the time of early 2015..... and the source touched upon some things that where odd and never added up with what Ridley had said at the time...

Then months latter comments etc came out that indeed seemed to then add up to what the source was saying..

But i cant guarantee the source is actually True, or made up but some things are just well bit too detailed to that then added up with latter comments.

So who knows.

The source comments do seem to point to the Space Jockey being a Ancient Event... but also that how the Xeno came to be, and related creatures in Prometheus 2 and Deacon in Prometheus are all connected as far as a creation stand point.

But they have been vague about this.... but they did refer to the Goo as a Parasite, but that it had been evolved to be more than that now.

 Big Dave:

Yes you are correct that I am one of those that wanted a clearer connection to the Xeno but my biggest problem is the human characters at the same time I like the fact that it wasn't a pure Xeno movie. David was the best character by far and he was an android.

I think that the Engineers, Deacon and Squid were alright but some of them could have been done better (the Fifield monster) or explained better (Hammerpedes but I hope that AC will explain some things about them). Hopefully we will see the Squid in AC. One problem that I have with Prometheus is that the Xeno connection is too vague but that doesn’t mean that I think that all the new things were lame or that the whole movie should have been about the Xeno (we already have Alien 1-4 + AvP). A little more explanation about the Xeno would be fine, but just a little. I like that they expand the Alien universe by having the Engineers in it.

Prometheus had some good things about it: The landscapes were great, I like the David character, the Engineer was potentially interesting even though I think that they would have put subtitles when he talked to Weyland, for example. Ending with the Space Jockey wasn’t too important because by leaving out the crash at LV-426 means that we can save that for later and have some more movies that hopefully make sense and that have better characters.

Thanks, I wasn’t sure about who them were. Thanks for clearing that up.

I would like to see how the hierarchy above the Enigneers looks like even though the whole movie doesn’t have to be about that. Maybe their society has some sort of military structure?

As far as the Deacon and the Xeno are concerned they look similar so they must have been created in a similar way, no? Similar doesn’t mean that they are created in the same way but that could be something that Alien Covenant could show a bit about. One thing that I am thinking about is how much genes that the Deacon and the Xeno have in common for example there are different birds but all birds are not the same but the obviously share genes in common so maybe that goes for the Xeno and the Deacon too.

The Goo could be expanded on I think, it could be explained in an interesting way although they don’t need to explain everything about it, the same goes for the Xeno. I hope that they won’t explain everything about how they made the goo because that leaves things up to the imagination which is better I think.

I would approach Prometheus and Alien: Covenant from a mythological point of view. That is, view the Engineers as the givers of fire, but also the bringers of suffering. One faction of the engineers upgraded humans, giving them civilization, and educating them (mathematics, science, etc). This is very similar to Sitchen's story of the Annunaki. Another faction of Engineers did not like this and decided to wipe humans out. Again, same story as the Annunaki, except the Annunaki didn't use weapons to do it, they just allowed humans to die in the deluge (flood). 

As a result of infighting the Engineers destroyed themselves. End of story. That's why no other Engineers have visited Earth. If any of them do still exist they're probably back to the stone ages living in caves. 

One faction of Engineers can be viewed as Prometheus. They were punished by the other faction. The Prometheus faction learned of the other's plans to eradicate life on Earth and sabotaged it. Perhaps one or more ships made it off LV-223 and dropped their cargo on Paradise. Still, the pictures I've seen from the set showing the Engineers frozen seems to indicate they may have died as a result of some type of nuclear weapon. 

Indeed i think that the idea was along those lines Trevorl314 i just hope any such themes and connections wont be just wrote off and forgotten about in return for a straight up Alien Movie.

Thoughts_Dreams

Prometheus looked amazing... i can only imagine what a 50% extra budget and trying to bring 1-2 more of the unused concept works to life would have given us.

And if Ridley used same Technology that Lord of the Rings does so that our Engineers would have appeared more 9-10 feet as intended rather than 7.5 Feet.

Between Spaights and Lindeloffs drafts was a movie that could have been Outstanding...

Spaights Characters and Plot was more coherent, less ambiguous but it was a bit Spoon Fed, bit too on the nose and robotic.

The Characters in that was not so great either.... in general they was used more better than Lindeloffs as far as general Characters.

Shaw and Holloway was flawed though... Watts who was to become Shaw, basically went from the Shaw in Prometheus to basically more Bad Ass than Ripely could ever dream within the space of the movie..... She Basically started off a Terminator Sarah Connor then half way through was a end of Terminator 2 Sarah Connor

Holloway was a bit of a boring geek, and more annoying in a way than Prometheus Shaw Character... always quoting Bible References to everything lol

Also seemed like he was basically Commander Data from Star Trek... While Watts was more a Alice from Resident Evil

Lindeloffs Characters.. was under developed.. apart from a few... some key Characters not fleshed out enough... and in general the movie had a kind of American Pie in Space with Aliens Vibe..

Spaights had Characters more developed but it was robotic and dull, it was like a Downtown Abby in Space with Aliens Vibe.

I think it needed to be a bit of both...

Between both drafts... there was a great re-write in the making that could have been great...

I had planed to do one myself... got most ideas down.. just never completed.. the dissecting of both drafts to stitch together with added dialog and scenes by myself.

Oh, Jesus, BigDave, that's a f.... long thread. :)