Prometheus 2 plot, possible just speculation not FACT

I would love to know what the connections was, and i hope we get the Fresco covered in some way.

The Source did say regarding the Engineers, and Paradise Lost a few things.

These are what stuck out as interesting...

*That the Engineers/Fallen Angels connection with regards to Paradise Losts Punishment of the Fallen Angels, where some of them were turned into Serpents, would be seen as freedom from Bondage in regards to the Engineers.

*That without Sin, in context of Paradise Lost there would be No Serpents/Dragons AKA Xenomorph.

What they mean who knows.... Paradise Lost does tell of the Fallen Angels being turned into Serpents they are punished and are no longer the same appearance as their non-fallen Angel counterparts.

Is this how eventually those Engineers gain their Bio-Tech or those Pressure Suit looks? or is this how the Xenos came to be? or related?

As far as Sin, she can be connected to many other Culture and Mythos beings... Sin was said to have the bottom half body or a Serpent/Fish and she had like Reptilian looking Dog heads as a tail, but she also gave birth to such Dog like beings, and they constantly be breaking her entrails as she is constantly Pregnant and giving birth to such horrors.

She and her Offspring Guard the Gate of Hell.

We could connect that to what happened with Shaw?

When we look at the description of Sin, and her appearance and offspring then she is also linked to a number of other beings which include.

1) Echidna (Greek) Mother of Monsters, gave birth to many which included.

*Cerberus Multi headed Hell Hound who Gaurds the Gates of Hades (Hell), similar to the Multiple Hound Heads that protrude from her (Sin) Tail that Gaurd Hell

*Gorgons which include Medusa, who can turn people to stone, but also her blood can give life and bring death.

*Caucasian Eagle which is the Eagle that Ate at Prometheus Liver every day as his Punishment.

2) Lilith who has many Myths, including being Adams First Wife, who disobeyed Adam and would not submit to him and was punished and turned into a horrid part Serpent Monster...  Lilith is also connected with Lamia and Succubus and Vampires... but also connected to Sin.

Going a little off topic there.... but maybe there is a connection... Gigers one artwork is Li, he has done and based many of his female works off this.. which was his Ex Partner... but also done in a way influenced by the Godess Lilith

Does this mean some non-literal maybe Female Figure plays a Role in the Xenomorph?  The Sin/Lilith/Echidna was Mother of Monsters and many being Serpentine.

Sin was born from Satan's Head as Punishment for his Rebellion against God... and was Satans Daughter.

Now what if the Fresco is Lucifer/Satan... he given birth to a Creature, the Fresco one and what if this is Sin, and his daughter and she birth Monsters... Eggs, this would connect the Xeno Egg being held by the creature and how it is similar to HR Gigers pose with the Egg which implied creator of the Egg.

But Sin was born from Satans head... but how is a Child Born, as Sin had no Mother... in a normal conception a Father and Mother are used... the Life Cycle of a Human and many creatures, is via Sexual Intercourse that then gives birth to the Offspring.. Shaws Trillobite included.

But in the Alien Franchise, the Aliens Life Cycle and how it is Born in part is from a single Parent the Host... the start of this Birthing does not start with Sexual Intercourse... but Face Hugging...

Thus Born from the Head?

So maybe the Prometheus Satan/Lucifer was Punished as Satan in Paradise Lost and Sin was born from his Head... Face Hugged..... by some creature... that gave birth to Sin... Creature in the Fresco who is Mother to all Monsters?

Thats just me trying to make some connections based of Prometheus Clues, and trying to piece in what the Source could have meant by.

in context to Paradise Lost Poem and Prometheus 2 the Fallen Angels (Engineers) Punishment (turned to serpents) plays a key role in freedom from bondage.

And how in same context that without Sin, there would be no Xenomorph.

But then as they also said Mankind plays the role in the Xenomorph, that and without Sin, in context to Paradise Lost may not mean Satans Daughter, but Sin as in going against the rules off God and being Sinners which then brings about Punishment.... which is the Xeno?

This HR Giger Image shows what could be Sin being birthed from Satans Head. We see the connections with Serpents, and they seem to be spewing forth mutations, of different creatures mutated and mangled together.

She is in a Sacrificial Cruciform pose.....

Gigers first Lilith..

The Top Image is Gigers (The Spell 4) Below is his The Spell 2

Many of his works has the image of Satan, in connection with this Female Figure Lilith if you look at The spell 2, and 4 then compare similarities to HR Gigers Alien Mural that was never used, there are similar themes.

Especially if we look at the Sacrificial Table, this Tables Design is featured in the other images.

Not saying its all a connection, but its interesting that HR Giger and his Bio-Mechanical Sexual Images all seemed to share a lot of themes, which include the Female Lilith and Satan and so we can connect Satan and Sin and thus AKA Sin/Lilith.

Who knows if any of this is connected however..

But it has me wondering... especially that without Sin, there can be no Serpents/Dragons... comment the source made...

And indeed HR Giger invented the Dragon/Serpent that was the Xeno as far as how it looked, and his images do have a Satan and Female Sacrifice connection as far as connected to his perverted Bio-Mechanical Nightmares and their creations.

without Gigers Lilith would his images had given birth to the many Monstrous Bio-Mechanical Nightmares?

And then when the source mentioned about how regarding the Xenomorph..... if you had the knowledge and tools of how it was created..... it could be re-created.

And so if there was no Xenomorph without Sin/Lilith... then in order for it to be created again maybe there needs to be a new Sin/Lilith well a Female Sacrifice.

And well could that be Shaw?

Maybe im running away with things a bit too much?

Got me thinking now though... lol

*Shaw plays a small role, is incapacitated for most part and Technically not Dead?

*If you had the knowledge and tools of how the Xeno was created, you could re-create it?

*Two new Monsters one is a event post Prometheus that David plays a role in?  Means other is in the past?

Could these mean, that we see Flash Back of the Origin of the Xeno, a Scene in the past as in thousands of years ago...

Then David with this knowledge of how and whats needed to create the Xenomorph... he then re-creates  it and thats where Monster 2 comes in?

*Without Sin/Lilith there is no Xenomorph, and so when i look at those images of Gigers...

Does Shaw play the role required by Sin/Lilith and is this thus our Shaw now?

The source did say that a concept was of some Humanoid connected to some Bio-Mechanical Machine.

That surely fits with the above... lol

But maybe this is wishful thinking and trying to connect things that are not connected, and maybe i have interpreted the clues wrong..

Thats saying if there is any TRUTH to them in the first place.

So its a case of just wait and see what Ridley and Fox have really got in store.... but i hope its interesting and they do give a Nod to HR Giger  i think they may do as a Tribute to his work after his passing

R.I.P HR Giger

O_O

I would be very happy if everything listed here comes to fruition. Pretty much contains everything I'm interested in within the Xeno universe.

Things I've always suspected.....

The Derelict in Alien is actually perched upon a subterranean Engineer outpost onto which it crash landed after leaving LV223, 2000 years or so after the Engineer outbreak on LV426 as seen in holographic playback in Prometheus. The egg chamber is located within this building. The Space Jockey is one of the Engineers who escaped the happenings of LV223 and after being either face hugged or somehow effected by what ever was chasing and ultimately destroyed his or her group on LV223 pilots to LV426 in order to escape. The Xeno which ultimately burst from the Space Jockey made its way down into the complex setting up a hive, becoming a Queen, laying eggs and ultimately dying off with Age. Here leads to Alien.

The Engineers are no more than meat bag and or clones of a superior species. We have seen a glimpse of this species craft in the tear drop vessel at the start of Prometheus. The superior species has either enslaved and or via a God like process procured the Engineers to give up their DNA for the use of procreation of Xenomorphic species on other worlds, either to create or destroy. These two species have been around for tens of thousands of years.

What ever happened on LV223 two thousand years before Prometheus was caused by a possible mutiny of the Engineers. Their superiors found out and punished the Engineers. A possible loose reference to the God Prometheus.

The creature seen in the loving embrace of an Engineer on the mural in Prometheus is another sub species used by both the Engineers and their superiors. These could also be the multiple dead and desiccated creatures seen in the spy set photo from Covenant.

The Xenomorph strain, even though originated by the Engineer species via the Black Goo can also move on to reproduce in more natural ways depending on subsequent species and combinations of methods of contagion and or hosting including egg morphing, egg laying or by the introduction of the black goo directly to a viable being.

There is no need of any form of time travel......

I truly look forward to finding out.

"The creature seen in the loving embrace of an Engineer on the mural in Prometheus is another sub species used by both the Engineers and their superiors. These could also be the multiple dead and desiccated creatures seen in the spy set photo from Covenant."

Hopefully we would get some clues to this, but everyone has a interpretation and to me the Fresco i think you mean looks more like Punishment the Engineer does not look comfortable with the Creature yet the creature looks like its sitting in a submissive position and so who knows...

But i notice the Scar like a C-Section and i think the Fresco is a representation of Prometheus.

To me the Engineer is more in the same pose with a similar Scar, as this Prometheus Fresco.

The Source did say that they are loosely basing the Plot as far as Creation and Hierarchy on common connections with Religion and Mythos in particular Biblical and Greek and so we have Titans, and Olympians as a Hierarchy but the Biblical event has only a Hierarchy under a single God (Monotheism).  And they are to all connect loosely and so maybe the Titans are Angels? etc

They said its mainly Paradise Lost and the Greek Prometheus Mythos Stories that the movies plot is touching upon in a sense, in other words maybe it wont go as deep as every aspect of the Biblical God, or the Full Greek God Origins and how they could connect.

Maybe we can draw a similarity with The Sumerian Mythos which would include the Anunnaki Tales these Gods are depicted as sometimes the same images, tablets etc that feature the same beings only in one they appear as Bearded Men, the other the head is replaced by a Eagle.  Maybe this could loosely be fitted in, in that these Gods could be Evolved into more Eagle looking beings.

The creature in the Fresco could have that beaked look to it. But also it looks a lot like O'Bannons idea for the Star Beast

So the Beauty with the Franchise is we can not be sure which theory works or fits and what clues will lead us all too, but i hope Ridley and Fox do cover some of the clues that lead many of us to our theories.

I have studied the Set Photos, and some speculation its a Xeno Related Outbreak like what happened on LV-223 or that its by David 8

But while it could be the dropping of Black Goo, as we have not seen added CGI and after effects... i only see just One Alien Being in those images who could maybe not be fully Human/Engineer Looking, but then the images are so low resolution its hard to tell.

To me the Scene looks like a Punishment, like what God did to Sodom and Gomorrah

Before these Set images had been released and so it was about March, the Source Mentioned stuff about how Mankind now as in Prometheus and Alien and 21st, 22nd Centuries is actually 4th or 5th Generation.

And that God has destroyed and evolved life on Earth over and over...

And then later, they said that the movie covers (well to consider it covers) not a Literal Paradise Lost and Biblical Events as far as Punishment God has handed out to Man over and over.

But that these events have happened in context to the movie but not in a literal sense and not necessarily as the Bible Indicates....   And so the Bible and Paradise Lost are in context of the movie. not about Punishment on Mankind...  but as far as similar events on previous Generations of Mankind.

Also that Literally Paradise Lost and the Bible, show us that we have Heaven above Earth, we have Hell below Earth, and that Paradise was on Earth and the Garden of Eden was in Paradise...  Evidence Proves these where Literally located around the area that is now Middle East and North Africa meet, but no one has been able to confirm the Exact place just it was on Earth and in and around a area that can be between Egypt, Syria and Iraq

But off course in Prometheus Paradise is not even located on Earth and so its not to be taken Literal, which means places like Hell, and Garden of Eden could maybe be shown to exist within context of Prometheus movies, but it wont be a place on Earth... so for example Hell could be LV-223 or LV-426 or even Paradise who knows.

And so after the Alien Covenant set image came out it added up to what the source was saying, and indeed we are seeing Punishment and Fall of Angels and Man, but maybe to not look at it as in context of the Bible...

And so who knows Mankind could be a later Generation of the Engineers, that scene seems to show what appear to be Human looking Aliens, that have no Hair, none of them do and they are all what you would call Perfect Human Specimens, i.e they are not short, or overweight etc...

And we see Females... so this is either Engineers, or a race related to the Engineers, either prior to them or after them or even created at the same time.. or they are a earlier Race of Mankind that was destroyed in the past.

So its interesting but maybe the Engineers are just a our Ancestors and while Evolution shows us to come from Apes so the theory goes.

What if we take this image but imagine the Engineers replace the Ape, or they are another part of the chain be that 3rd Generation... and two others prior who look a lot less Engineer but still a little.

That image above shows us 6 Evolutionary steps, to Mankind from Ape....  What if the Elders are at Number 3, Engineers Number 4, those beings in those Set photos being Punished are at Number 5 and then we are at Number 6?

The source has not said this, but its just maybe one interpretation i have of what they said.

As always Big Dave, beautifully written and wonderfully researched.

Big Dave:

Unfortunately the fresco didn’t tell me very much. I am not sure why they even put it there if it doesn’t make sense. They should be smart enough to see what works and what don’t even though I don’t think that 5they should be underestimating the audience.

It could be interesting to see what the sin would be that created the Xenomorphs or rather that gave them (who ever they are) to make the Xeno.

I haven’t read much about Lilith even though I have heard about her. Maybe she could be used for a character in Alien Covenant in a way?

The Fresco picture could be who ever but it would be cool if it would be a figure that has some connection to it.

Sin as far as mankind going against the Engineers and being punished by that be the creation of the Xenomorph could be interesting. What if earth was given by the Engineers to mankind in a way and then they see us destroy it so the Engineers get mad at mankind and decide to exterminate us by upgrade its invention as far as life forms go by making the Xeno as a way to replace mankind.

As far as new monsters yes there could have been monsters that were created in the past. Remember that the Engineers are creating live forms a bit now and then so that could have been a possibility.

I hope that we will not see exactly where and when the Xeno was created but that we could get some clues to how it was created. One thing that I like about the Xeno is that it has some mystery about it which gives some room to speculate and I think that it should stay that way.

Having Shaw tied to a machine that gives the birth to the Xeno could be an interesting thing. This could be used like the theme of the mad scientists that do horrible things but that is smart at the same time – smart and dangerous at the same time.

They sure have a huge possibility to do some homage to Giger with this movie.

"Unfortunately the fresco didn’t tell me very much"

It was ambiguous, and i think not being able to see it well really made it harder to work out, The Mural and Two Frescos never got much screen time and so the only people who could study it would be those who have looked at the stills, and on set work and concept work for them.

If you only saw the movie then you would not see enough to spot much.

Here is a brief observation because it has been covered elsewhere.

• These cannot be purely coincidence, they are there for a reason and so they have to be connected.

• The First One many have figured it could show the Creature as a Creation of the Engineer, maybe its like the Adam and God Fresco, and yes it could look that way and the creature is in a submissive posture but its also a fetal (new born) posture. And the Engineers body language is not the same as in Adam and God Fresco.

• Another alternative way to look at it is if we take Prometheus Myth connection, then it looks a lot like one Prometheus Punishment Fresco the Engineer is similar posture and he also has similar look on his face. There is the Scar on the Engineer, similar to Shaw having a  C-Section but the Creature is not in a position that seems like its Eating at the Engineer like the Eagle and Prometheus... however  maybe its a Metaphor and what if the Engineer is used as a Host and then has something removed like Shaw’s C-Section and they have to go over this over and over.  The creature being the result of this.

Then the other Fresco which was not really shown clear in Prometheus and held the biggest clue maybe to Alien, we see a Alien Egg open and being carried by a Creature that is either the Fresco Creature a Xenomorph or a related Organism to both, what can this mean?

• The Creature is trying to get itself Face Hugged and so is a sacrifice? Maybe!

• The Creature is the one who transports the Eggs to Hosts, or Engineer Ships?

• Maybe again and my view this is similar to the HE Giger Shot of him holding a Egg on Set for a photo, were Giger is off course the creator of the Egg it came from Him, and so maybe this fresco shows the Creature in the Mural is where the Eggs came from, or at least it produced a variety of Eggs.

There has to be a connection between Engineer, Fresco Creature and Eggs and the Xenomorph but its so Ambigious to figure how.

I always wondered was the Fresco showing Prometheus Punishment, where be either.

1) This Punishment led to the Creature that Originated  the Eggs, or was a creature that could create/lay different Eggs to the Alien ones?

2) The Punishment was to be used as a Host over and over again for such Creature.

3) As above but not meaning Prometheus as in a single Engineer, but a whole Fraction/Race whos Punishment is now Hosts for such a Creature.

Then we have the Sources Comments, which kind of push me down two avenues but ill cover them another time

"It could be interesting to see what the sin would be that created the Xenomorphs"

Again what the source said is ambiguous, and has to maybe mean one of two things.

Sin as in Daughter of Satan...

Sin as in the sins of Mankind, or even Fallen Angels.

The Sin as in Satans Daughter was created in Paradise Lost as Punishment for Lucifer’s Sin against God, she was birthed from his Head.  I have covered this recently and well Sin in terms of Paradise Lost, was a Part Serpent(Fish) Lower Half with a Female Upper Half.

She Guards the Gate of Hell, and she constantly is cursed with perpetual labour giving birth to Hounds of Hell, these Beasts constantly and breaking her Entrails. Her Tail also has the heads of these hounds and she is depicted as having more growing from her mid section.

Now Sin, when you look into her description and images of her, she is very similar to the Greek Monster Echidna who again is part Woman, Part Serpent and she is the Mother of Monsters having gave birth to a whole manner or Monsters, the most famous being

Orthrus (Two Headed Hound, who Guarded the Cattle of Geryon a Giant who is Grandson of the Gorgon Medusa)

Cerberus (Three Headed Hound that Guards Gates of Hades).

Other offspring included Serpentine Monsters including Gorgons, and Hydra and also the Caucasian Eagle which is the Eagle that was sent as Punishment for Prometheus.

So yes Sin, is similar to Echidna and also Lilith (Lamia) of which a lot of Gigers work is based on.

So when i look at it like this, i can make connections but the source never confirmed any of it they only said that “without Sin, as in context to Paradise Lost there would be no Xeno”  Maybe that could mean Satans Daughter?  In which case, Satans Punishment led to a Creature which in turn gave birth to a whole manner of Monsters....

If i was to try and put what the source vaguely said and fit it with Prometheus Mythos and the Fresco then the Fresco could show Satan, and the creature is Sin, and the Creature holding the Egg is the Birth of Monsters... related to the Xeno.

This is what i figure could be what they mean, but bare in mind all they said was  “without Sin, as in context to Paradise Lost there would be no Xeno”

Which could lead us to Sin being as far as Mankind, or Engineers sinning against God, and then being Punished with the Xenomorph.....

Again they did say that Mankind, played a bigger role in the Xeno Origins, but they also said that Mankind now is 4^th or 5^th Generation.

As far as Shaw, who knows....

The source did say that regarding the Xenomorph and how its created,  you only need to know the Knowledge and have the Tools to how it was created to Re-Create it

We dont know what happens to Shaw but the Source did say she plays a Smaller Role and she is incapacitated for the most part and is Technically not Dead.

Then yes there was the concept of some Humanoid attached to a bio-mechanical Machine or Contraption... similar to how the deacon Mural was and also said it was like a Bio-Mechanical Version of the robot-girl scene from Superman 3

Now we know Giger has done a lot of work that fits with this, that feature Females and mainly Lilith and sometimes what her referred to as Daughters of Satan.

Does this mean, that we will see similar to Gigers work that Shaw becomes the new Lilith and is connected to a Bio-Mechanical Machine that has a connection to the Xenomorph?

We just cant be sure... for ONE this is me maybe trying to make sense of their comments and TWO this assumes they was telling the Truth.

A L I E N offered a clear linear story with a back ground atmosphere that could be explored.

Ridders after hesitation (Spaihts) decided with Lindelof to frame that back story in Prometheus in an elliptical way so that we were deliberately left with conundrums to solve. It also left room for a sequel which, like Prometheus, has changed direction not necessarily in terms of answers but in terms of narrative and the way those answers are going to be framed and where the greatest light will be shined.

As there is so much interpretation possible which BD provides so many stimulating ideas to fuel, it is easy, for me, to forget there are only a handful of questions :- 

A L I E N 

Why the weapon.

Who was the space jockey.

P R O M E T H E U S  

The Space Jockey is an Engineer whose race had a fall, how did that come about. The answer is actually in Prometheus they created an unauthorised mutagen which got out through an error. We can speculate on the creation of the strain (My view is the sacrificial bowl and sacrificial deacon gives me my answer and that was the ultimate expression of dangerous sub creation documented in the frescos) but for others it can be something else. The theft of fire may remain a mystery, we may only need to know it was, and that theft lead to  to a fall.

David has begun to explore the Black Goo where does that lead him.   

C O V E N A N T

Will provide more detail as to the nature of that fall by the Engineers, the retribution they suffered as a result, which may even be the evolving creature and the bursting of their bonds through the creature (Aka Paradise Lost) . The retribution that they received will also give us a sense of their place in the hierarchy. David may trigger their final downfall but equally he may arrive afterwards. He could be responsible for the bursting of their bonds, in dramatic terms that would not surprise me at all. 

It may also provide us with a separate unique narrative strand sparked by David and may include Shaw and certainly includes David's curiosity of the Goo. 

At  a film design level the political response by the studio to Prometheus will be to make the crew more likeable and heroic (possibly through idealistic naivety and through the mistake of not recognising the doppleganger). The accidents that happen to them will be more relatable for those who thought the Prometheus crew were dumb chancers (They were). The hero and smart guy of Prometheus was David and as he was a f…… Robot thats a difficult one to sell.        

As we are backing into A L I E N I am curious as to whether he will leave the particular Jockey and Derelict  on A L I E N untethered from the narrative that I believe will depend on whether the life cyle created in Covenant is framed as a revival of an ancient cycle or a new cycle. The why Bio Mechanoid suggest its coming rather than revival.

I personally would love to "meet" the Engineer who piloted the derelict to find out why he might have become infected, setting the ship down and triggering the Beacon but only as far as I met the sacrificial engineer who seeded a planet at the beginning of Prom.    

OH and as part of the fabric of the franchise W-Y will have their own nefarious agenda which makes things worse for the Covenant crew.  

Big Dave:

Exactly, it was so ambiguous so it didn’t tell us very much so why have it at all? To me it was another waste that they could have handled in a much better way although it makes sense in the context of the Xeno being a piece in a punishment story. Unfortunately the mural and the fresco could have been expanded a lot more so they would make more sense which they didn’t. Who made these stupid decisions? Was it Ridley? Fox? Lindelof? Who?

The egg fresco makes more sense since you can connect the egg to the Xeno but it still doesn’t say very much. There are many parts of this so yes it makes sense that all these are connected in a way. These are just wasted potentials if you ask me. They are wasted because they could have been told in a much better way.

I think that the punishment led to the Alien that would lay the alien eggs. I am not sure why I think that is the way it was it is just that it makes it much more interesting.

Maybe it could be a fraction of the Engineers that did wrong in a way. I think that it has been mentioned here before that there were two fractions of the Engineers that competed and one got erased but why did it get erased?

As far as Greek mythology I don’t know very much about it but there are things there that they can find inspiration in. Check this out for example about the Erinyes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erinyes They are quoted as being: “female chtonic deites of vengeance”. Maybe they can use this in a way.

Echidna (or how ever you spell her name) seems interesting that she is a sort of source for getting new monsters. Maybe this could be a role that Shaw ends up in? You can use that and put a Giger twist on it, that could work. This could be very interesting to see in the movie.

It is interesting that you mention Lilith and Giger so there we have a connection. Unfortunately Giger isn’t around but you can use that thing for the next movie.

Sin could be what they base the role of Shaw on in the next movie. What if Shaw is connected to a machine and is being forced to give birth to various monsters that the Engineers use as biological weapons? This could be very interesting if they use her like that. Maybe they won’t use Shaw for that role but it could be interesting if we see something similar. If they won’t use her for something interesting then they shouldn’t use her at all IMO or maybe they could show her corpse like how they showed Newt in Alien 3. Hopefully they will do something interesting but I have my doubts.

They could make an interesting explanation of why mankind has an important role to play in the creation of the Xenos. I hope that they won’t mess up the explanation but let’s see.

Michelle J:

I think that they made a mistake to get Lindelof because I would have preferred the script by Spaights. It is not that all of what Lindelof wrote was bad but Spaights was better. Once Fox got their fingers in it and started to interfere it became worse. Hopefully Fox won’t interfere as much this time.

As far as a sequel that is alright but you must have a movie that is interesting enough to make a sequel to because if the first one is a disappointment to many then a lot won’t watch the next one. It won’t help much if the first one is confusing and has many bad characters. Because of the mess that was Prometheus I guess that less people are interested to see Alien Covenant compared to how many persons that were interested in watching Prometheus as a prequel to Alien. Here are some thoughts about Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

Prometheus: My main interest in that movie is how the Deacon came about. The answer seems to be Shaw’s boyfriend (what ever his name is, he was boring and stupid for removing his helmet) got some goo that David put in his drink that mutated the boyfriend. He and Shaw have sex which in turn gives birth to the Squid. The Squid impregnates the Engineer which in turn gives birth to the Deacon.

There is definitely a potential to explore the Engineers, unfortunately it was made in a very bad way in Prometheus. I think that some of the cut scenes would have made it a lot better for example when Weyland speaks to them and having subtitles which some one made them dumb decision to cut out.

Alien Covenant: I simply want some answers to the things that we didn’t get in Prometheus. They don’t need to explain everything, for example they don’t need to explain the Ripley connection since it is about more things than just Ripley. Most important is that we get better characters because most of them in Prometheus were written in such a poor way so it became worse than it could have been. Whoever wrote the characters did a bad job, it could also be blamed on the editing but it is probably a combination of both.

They should give some answers to the goo also but not too much. I would prefer to get the answer to why it was created but we don’t need to know how it works in detail because you can guess that from Prometheus (it breaks down cells and transforms them into new forms of life which in general are aggressive).

David should play an important role because to me he was by far the best character in Prometheus. I think that there is a potential for character development here but there should be character development among the other roles also just as people develop throughout life. To me Daniels seems to play an important role so they need to make her interesting, something that they didn’t with Shaw.

The Spaights Draft was very Alieny, it had some flaws too, but it gave the framework for which Lindeloff was brought in to change a few things and make this movie not a Direct Prequel, and also tone down the Xeno DNA and concentrate and evolve the aspects of the Engineers and Mankind relation as Spaights draft laid the foundation

If you read Lindeoffs draft you will notice its better than the Movie we ended up with, because his Draft was not the Final Shooting Script changes where made.

And then Editing took care of a few things, but also Ridley may be to blame for some of it as far as how much time was spent observing the Mural and Fresco.

But Ridley and Lindeloff  went out it as far as the draft and how the movie was shot, so as to give the movie a bit of Ambiguity.  So that the Answers are not Spoon fed and so everyone will start to have their own theories and discus the movie...

If Prometheus was more Spoon Fed, then the only main discussion we would have here would been about the movie prior to release and then speculating on a sequel.

Lindeloff made some good changes, but there was flaws... between Both Spaights and Lindeloffs there is ground work for a ALTERNATIVE Draft, which i was going to do... a Draft that re-writes them both but it would have 60-70% Lindeloffs, 15-20% Spaights and the rest would be odd bits added by my to tie it together.

I never got round to it, but maybe i may do a re-write i have thought elements through and my additions and edits would give good reasons for some of the stupid elements, as all it took was a few pieces of dialog.

But yes there was clues but they could have been highlighted a bit more, and more screen time given to the Fresco and Mural..  with odd bit of minor dialog added.

Holloway, Shaw and Milburn had made a few comments about the Head Statue, Mural and Frescos but some of it was not giving no clues...  "Beautiful paintings" while others did, or maybe did but maybe needed that touch more.. i.e "Just another Tomb" and "his that their God"

@BD I just read the Lindelof draft and focused on the sub creative mythos elements. The ending dialogue is more elegant the decision to head for Paradise but what struck me is the Mural and Cup/Crystal Green Shape are absent and Charlie has his tomb dialogue out side of the door.

What is communicated much more effectively is the painting which disappear are likened to Frescoes, in other words works of religious and cultural significance and the reason they crumble is quite straight forward. It is the same reason that ancient artefacts deteriorate when they are exposed to the natural elements. The headroom in the draft is more a laboratory.

I do not see Lindelof's draft as clarifying the mythos I think introducing the piles of bodies and the sacrificial deacon where Easter Eggs which would lead to speculation.

What is more clear is the headroom is like the Sistine Chapel a place which reflects on the beliefs and achievements of the engineers. The head may symbolise the focus around which they show their achievements and therefore if they have "fallen" is their Lucifer image. Certainly including the mural was a piece of Giger Code and gave us pictorially a link between the Black Goo and how it could result in the Deacon and the coming Zeno.  

Yes the Drafts both did offer a bit of detail, but yes some things on the movie sets that was not described in detail or even mentioned in the drafts.

Why i was thinking of doing a re-write as i think if someone had done so before shooting between both Drafts there would have been a good movie in there.

But when looking at it, i think it would have to be 70/30% in favour of elements based on Lindeloffs and then add bits to Tidy up and explain a few things better.

@BD I know it sound presumptuous to do re writes but it is actually a very interesting exercise. As a life long Tolkien fan who followed the genesis of the Hobbit I know there was a really wonderful adult take on the children's story and the only way I became certain was to rewrite the narrative track. I spent 150 hours on it and it was a real eye opener for me as to what I need in a movie even at my age. 

In the case of Prometheus the scene with Vickers and Janek should have been in and the young Weyland scene which like the Ted Talk gave Weyland some real breadth and journey.     

I thought the Fifield gone mad scene was a distraction and it would have flowed better if the larger party had set off for the derelict with Fifield in a much more "Zeno'd state" attack the party who held him off and the holding up party all died with the image of the changing dead Fifield the last shot before they reach the Jockey room making a clear connection for the audience.

The back story to the mural, not the fresco, and the sacrificial green cup in the trailer and the green object should have made it clear to the audience that those experiments had resulted in the mutagen left as a symbolic achievement to the head. 

I am not convinced we needed the Deacon indeed unless the Deacon is threaded into Covenant having not been explained in the hologram or mural I would have left the Engineer with his stomach about to explode so the audience is left with their first life cycle. On the other hand if they had made a clear link between the Deacons head fused into the alter, the mural and a holographic image as well as the scream then the busting would have explained everything neatly to the audience. 

Big Dave:

I think that the Spaights script was better than the one by Lindelof even though Lindelof did a better script compared to what became the final movie. This is why I would have liked a movies based on the Spaights script better, it makes more sense even though everything shouldn’t be spoon fed so my preferred version would have been Spaights combined with a little bit of Lindelof. My guess is that the script if we would have had it more like the original would have had less stupid and uninteresting characters. 70% Spaights 30% Lindelof would probably have been my preferred version even though it seems that all that Lindelof did wasn’t in the movie but it seems that his draft was less stupid than what we got but still I would have preferred more of Spaights if I would have to choose. My reason for siding with Spaights is that it would have been more connected to Alien (1979) which the reason why I think that Prometheus is interesting at all.

The Engineers are not uninteresting but they should have extended the part that was dedicated to the Xeno and the monsters so it would be clearer how the Xeno came to be although it shouldn’t be extremely obvious. Eventually they could have explained more about the Engineers also because if they would have then people might not have had the reaction to it that these were bald guys that didn’t make sense or that the story was just plain dumb. Prometheus is a movie that many have strong and different opinions about. After all the Alien movies are not very obvious either so that is alright.

Yes the mural and the fresco should have been explained better. I am not sure why but they seemed to rush that part where they explained that or maybe that is just my feeling about it. They should have had more dialogue about it and spent less on visual clues.

That is fine if people discuss the movie because of some things that are not spelled out but when you write it so you have bad characters, things that contradict each-other, things that don’t make sense, important parts that are left out (look at the documentary of how they made Prometheus or compare the drafts to the final movie) and so on, then it is a failure to an extent. Prometheus is still OK even though I don’t enjoy it as much as I did when it was released. Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3 still works for me, Resurrection though *cough*.

Sorry but I think that Lindeloff made it worse, but that is a matter of subjective taste. Yes I think that the stupid elements should either have:

1. Been explained better

or

2. Edited away

It would have been better if they could have been able to explained better but if you can’t explain an important part of the movie then it should be cut out, that is my opinion.

Just another tomb that Holloway said doesn’t really say that much but maybe I am partially to blame here since English isn’t my main language.

Another update from the source and it appears they will not be giving away anymore as they have already covered pretty much the broad strokes of the Plot they had to take a sequel forwards from Prometheus, where it would evolve upon the Mystery’s and Questions of Prometheus and give some answers but also raise few more (less ambiguous) Questions.  While at the same time giving a few more Clues to the Xenomorph, LV-223/426 without having to Spoon Feed every last aspect and especially the Story of the Space Jockey from the just another day at the office to his death.  Its not needed.

This was the idea for Prometheus Part 2-3

The information they had passed on to the person who passed it onto me, they said has covered those broad strokes without going more into detail to spoil the plot....  but they have said that indeed changes look like they have been made and its hard to tell how much as we have seen so little so far but it has changed from the Paglen/Green Work....  they have not had no insight into Alien Covenant by John Logan... but it appears Elements from the earlier draft are carried over while other elements are changed and added.

They cant say if the extent of changes are similar to the Evolution of Spaights Alien Engineers to Lindeloffs Paradise, and so they cant give a % of what has been changed.  But it appears some changes have been made in Hindsight to Reception of Prometheus compared to Spaights more Alieny Draft.

It seems its more of a case of, lets answers those Questions and get back to the Alien Connection first and more so, leaving space to explore other elements that would step away from Alien at a latter date.

They said it could be like in Hindsight maybe if they Evolved Spaights draft to be more Alieny explored and give more answers to Alien, then latter when people have those Answers they would then want to know WHY? And Connections to Engineers and their History.. having found out about the Xeno and its Origin and Purpose and to a degree WHY/HOW in a Alien  Prequel (Spaights)  while giving some foundations for the Engineers and History and Agenda would maybe have been the better option...

Fans Basically get more clues about the Xeno, Eggs and Why.... and when they are pleased, maybe Fans would then want to learn more about these beings who was behind the creation of the Xeno, well the Biology and Reasons for it... and so a 2^nd, 3^rd movie could explored the Species behind the Space Jockey.

But Fox felt that the Xeno elements and answers could be toned down, and lay seeds to explore who the Space Jockey/Engineers where and this could be explored more than the Xeno.. but in hindsight they may have gone about it in the wrong order.

And so the Source has said it seems Alien Covenant is a attempt to still cover what they had planned but to tone it down/not explore it in depth but concentrate on the Xenomorph Elements more.... basically a reverse Evolution of Spaights to Lindeloffs.

They don’t know what will happen in Covenant, they have a few ideas as it seems it is following some of the Green/Paglen ideas but they cant say how much this would be... But they are no longer going to drop any more clues because of a chance of giving away maybe what Alien Covenant could cover.

They did give some more slight clues but they said they wont be making any more comments about what the old drafts had, but that there was plenty they had covered as it is.

They did expand upon a few things.

They said that indeed they are touching upon the Gods, and Dragons but that they are tone down the Gods part as far as details, but its loosely connected to the connections that can be made by Many Cultures,  the Ancient Astronaught idea...  but not in a too literal manner  but in a manner that if you take Monotheism and Polytheism there are common themes and its a case of what if these Religons, Mythos all stemmed from a real event and what we have is interpretations that changed of such a real universal events.  They said if you looked at the common themes especially Biblical Paradise Lost Theme and Stories of Prometheus the Titan and similar themes seen in Matrix and Blade Runner and mix them into a bowl then the end product is what they was going for.

And we should not try and look at a too Literal Connection.

They said that Prometheus did have a lot of answers that was all vague and so only by touching upon them in the next Movie you can make sense, they said the event that happened to Shaw as far as creation and the Frescos and Murals are similar.

The movie is about Creator, Creation, Rebellion and Punishment over and over Generation by Generation,  and it does not start with the Engineers and may not end with David 8.

As far as creation and who is creator, they said the Question to be asked is who is the CREATOR what makes a Creator, and Prometheus posed these Questions on Multiple Levels, the next movie would have expanded this....  but its to look at what makes a Creator, they said when we look at what happened to Shaw, and what the Engineers where doing, its how do we connect it because there are connections the Mural and Frescos show part of creation too, and so does the Start of the Movie and what happened to Shaw... they are all at the base level connected... they all connect to a CREATION Origin...

They said they cant give much away but when we look at Shaw, if we look at when a Man and Woman Procreate to create a Child... does the Mother and Father become the creators? They indeed created life... but does that make Parents a Creator?  Like the Chicken and Egg, its a case of who was the First Man and Woman and how they came to be, are they the creator of every child born... or who ever created first Man and Woman.

Therefore they said if we look at Shaw and Holloway then the Baby Trilobite its then while Shaw is the Mother is she the Creator?  What role did Holloway play?  Are they the creators of the Deacon as it was due to their Child?

Or was David the creator because he instigated the event... or is it who ever created the Biological Concoction in those Ampoules is that the Ultimate Creator of the Deacon.  We have a event where this Concoction was used  (without consent of those who created it, and those who it was being used on) the result was a experiment, which then gave birth to New Life, which then Gave Birth to another New Life...

They said when you look at that, then the Mural and Fresco could come more to life as far as whats going on... but off course they wont go into exact detail. But they said the Movie had clues not only visually, but also Narrative etc. They agreed they was never well executed and a bit ambiguous and that the drafts gave a clearer insight as far as how the clues would fit and that Lindeloffs draft had more clues that when combined with what Ridley had said are what is closer to adding things together but sadly not every aspect of that draft made it to screen that would have made things easier...

But the aim was to loosely touch upon stuff but me less ambiguous, and while it would not directly cover the Space Jockey we would have no questions really to what would have happened, they said clues was in Prometheus but more so in Lindeloffs drafts that would also gave a timeframe that sadly did not make it to screen.

These comments are regards to the Engineer Outbreak and Connection to the Xeno and LV-426.

From what i can work out they could be implying that David using something he was not meant to, led to Shaw Carrying some unplanned/desired Life Form... as a experiment of Rebellion against Creator? or if not (for that reason) jus that indeed it made Shaw carry something, that was taken from her that then went on to then produce another Life Form.

If the source hints this connects to the Mural and Fresco, i am not sure it does as a Prophecy, but with Shaw we see something related to the Black Goo Experiments is carried out on her, she then has removed NEW ORGANISM 1 which then goes on to via Engineer to make NEW ORGANISM 2 now... how would that connect to the Fresco as we see Engineer (Shaw) and that creature (Trilobite) then that creature maybe holding a Egg (Deacon).  Or have it got that wrong?

Do they mean the Mural which shows different Face Huggers are they attempts to create the Deacon in the Mural, or did the Deacon come first as in the Mural we see 3 Phases but its what order... what order does Deacon, 2 different Face Hugers, and Hosts have... what order is the creature with the Egg and Engineer?

As far as Timeframe well, before when they mentioned Prometheus had clues, they not only meant what we could see easy but also clues we may have missed... things not shown enough and so yes Mural, Fresco and Cryo-Busted Engineers seem to be the case.  So when looking at Lindeloffs draft he does go into detail more about the Hologram Engineer Scene that David sees when he is sitting at the Control Panel and in Lindeloffs draft the scene is longer, has more Engineers and they are calm and then David fasts forwards through the recording until there is just one Panicked.....  in Lindeloffs Draft the Engineer leaves for a Corridor and not the Cryo Sleep Chamber in the Control Room.

During this scene, Lindeloff seems to point to not knowing the time of the recordings David was fast forwarding and it could have past years or CENTURIES, and i think if we look at Ridleys comments about the Event of the Space Jockey being within a hundred years of the LV-223 Outbreak 2000 years ago... we never knew if he meant as far as prior or post outbreak.  But then when i consider his other comments about something Evolving, and his last comments on the Space Jockey about something had Evolved and got to the Space Jockey....

Then i wander if the source is implying that something Evolved after the outbreak and maybe some Engineers went into Cryo-sleep to awake and find their Cargo had Evolved? But this conflicts my interpretation of the Mural as them Sacrificing something related to the Deacon Mural/Xeno to create the Black Goo...... is it now that the Black Goo instead evolved something?

As far as the Engineers, they said again they are not the creators, and there is a pattern of creation and that David has more in common with them and he would be following the same path but they said they best not cover that no further.....

And we need to not look at the Biblical and Paradise Lost connections as being a Factual event as far as how we interpret them... but a actual event that spans further than our World.  And that the Mythos and Religious elements are loosely covered but not bound to our World as those Religions and Mythos are concerned... they said for example Hades/Hell and Paradise are in Literal Sense on Earth in those fables but in context of the Franchise they expand further.  And that Rebellion and Creation, Chain of events repeats and Forbidden Knowledge passed on or stolen by those not intended to know or use it  would make these Creations as Powerful as the Creator.  But when stealing Fire, you get burnt and that also by going against the will of a Father will bring Punishment for disobedience.   But sometimes Punishment does not make the Son Respect the Father, but provides further motives for Rebellion and eventually the Son will over throw the Father.

I am puzzled to say the least... 

The source had said they had covered clues with what they had said in the past however, and seems they are not willing to go into any more details.

Again they are cryptic and who even knows if they are ever telling the Truth....  it certainly is a puzzle, and i keep trying to work out what they meant when they said that in context to the Paradise Lost.... “without Sin, there would be no more Xenomorph” and how in Paradise Lost context to the movie plot.... the changing of some of the Fallen Angels to Serpents freed them from Bondage.

They did say that there has been images on the internet (since 2^nd movie was underway) in relation that is pretty close to the idea for the ONE MONSTER, and its a fresh take on the HR Giger Masterpeice. That was to be used in the Green/Paglen Draft and they said the movie touches upon a repeating events..  and themes.

Does this mean regarding where they said before Two Monsters, one was from a past event and another a New Post Prometheus Event at the hands of David?  But if so which connects to the Xeno and Eggs in Alien?

Apparently in everything they have covered which they have done in a way to not Spoon Feed Spoilers, does cover the broad plots of what the Green/Paglen Drafts had and it seems John Logan has not abandoned all those ideas.

oh i forget to mention... they said the Goo was Originally a Parasite and Alive.....  But they had chose to Evolve it to being something much more and a Catalyst for all Organic Life. And thus a Forbidden Fruit of Life/Death.

The Tree of Life and Knowledge that also can lead to death.

BD thanks for the update. I think your conversations with the source resolve around two issues where the outcomes so far are quite different.

The creation mythos which I am inclined to think is fairly well established in Prometheus. A hierarchy has bequeathed on the Engineers the role of gardeners of the universe. Those gardeners have stolen the fire and interfered with creation and suffered retribution and punishment as a result. The creation of the Zenomorph strain/mutagen has had Promethean significance for the Engineers which will be elaborated on through David and Elizabeths coming to Paradise and the consequences for the Covenant crew.

What I think is less clear and is the element that your source does not answer, even regarding the released film, is the precise nature of the chronological history and interrelationship between LV223 and LV426. We know from the interviews in 2012 what Ridleys broad intention was that they co existed in the past (within a few hundred years). LV426 could have happened before the collapse of LV223 or it could have been executed by one of the Engineers who fled to the headroom or a returning Juggernaut could have picked up this more evolved cargo.   

For myself the elliptical solution that it was one of a number of consequences of the out break on LV223 is just fine. However with a film up coming which plans to explain the why the Zeno, and the source makes it clear they know nothing of John Logan's input, just as the film will more literally deal with the Zeno so may it more literally deal with the events of LV426. If I had to put on my "what would the more general audience need" hat on it would be more connectivity with what he is backing into. Once you start showing eggs then there are a range of ways you can imply specifically where the original Juggernaut fits into the chronology without making it end up right down to the narrative backing in. However we have not seen eggs other than in the murals so that would be a chance to show whether it is past or future.   

Yes the source only had claimed information on the Green/Paglen draft, but said it appears elements are being carried over.

As far as the Prometheus 2 movie and 3rd they said the aim was to  spread over Two movies and 2nd would loosely give clues to the Xenomorph but it would not be a Spoon Fed, direct prequel..... they said by the time the prequels had finished we would have more of a clue and answers to the Xeno Origins but without having a Spoon Fed Space Jockey Flick.

They did say that Prometheus had clues, but they was vague and not shown enough, but that early drafts did give the Answers away...

The Green/Paglen Draft would have given clues to a LV-223/426 connection by the time the franchise was done we would have more clues but it would not show us the Space Jockeys full day at the office as they called it.

But we now have the Alien Covenant that is now seeming to cover the Xeno elements more.... but even Ridley said while it backs into Alien we would not get a Space Jockey Story....  but they may do that as a 3rd movie in the NEW Alien Prequel series.

So i think on both accounts, we dont need to see the Space Jockey getting on his ship and how the Eggs got there and then how he got infected and where he was going and then seeing him chest busted to give us the answers of Where those Eggs came to be and what purpose they had.

Big Dave:

I think that is a good thing that they will give more questions that are less puzzling. There should be some questions left after they are done with the Alien prequels so I am totally fine with that. As long as the answers that we get are not lame and the characters are well developed it is all good I think.

They could give us some clues about the Xeno but we don’t need to know what it eats or if it shits acidic turds (LOL!).

Having some drafts to look at and then to pick out good pieces from all might be a way to go. Hopefully these that do this have a sense of a good story with believable characters and so they also know what makes tension of it is a movie that is supposed to be like that. 

So they have learned some from how it went when they went from Spaights to Lindelof; that is a good thing. I really hope that Fox isn’t interfering as much this time since they seem to be the biggest problem why Prometheus became the way it did.

In my opinion they should revisit some of the things that they were trying to answer in Prometheus but failed to do or else it will just be to forget Prometheus and move on from there. That would still make Prometheus look more lame than it could be.

Yes I agree that they should have kept more of Spaights draft and messed less with it because there the characters were a lot better which is a huge reason why Prometheus failed because the characters were too lame (the exceptions being David and the captain). At least some of the cut scenes should have been kept as well because they made the movie make a whole more sense. Without these cut scenes it becomes confusing and well not very good (which isn’t to say that Prometheus is a total let down).

They shouldn’t give us all the answers to the Xeno but those that we will be given should make sense. I wouldn’t mind if they will make another movie about the Engineers as long as things make sense and the human characters (my emphasis) are alright and make sense while the movie isn’t over explanatory. Alien and Aliens wouldn’t have been such sucessess if the human characters would have been badly written or how they were on screen.

Prometheus maybe has some answers but they were badly executed so I am not sure if people feel like going back and search for them. In a way I think that Alien Covenant is a way to start all over (but not totally).

“They agreed they was never well executed and a bit ambiguous and that the drafts gave a clearer insight as far as how the clues would fit and that Lindeloffs draft had more clues that when combined with what Ridley had said are what is closer to adding things together but sadly not every aspect of that draft made it to screen that would have made things easier...”

Which means that they have hopefully learned from their mistakes but they should have thought about that before they released the movie (Prometheus).

The Trilobyte was OK so maybe they could have something similar in P2? Some people maybe didn’t like it but I think that it was OK.

Hopefully they won’t rely as much on murals and so on this time but that they will try to explain things in a better way. If they rely on murals and so on then it seems to me that you need to be 100% alert throughout the whole movie and I am not sure if most people are that when they sit down two hours plus and watch a movie if they are not extremely interested. Casual viewers might not care as much, but this is a guess. Maybe the hologram sequence could have been longer (when we see the Engineers running from something)? To have it being a bit longer could have helped some. Perhaps it doesn’t matter how old that sequence is what matters is that it happened because it helps to give some clues.

If the black goo evolved something then it must have something to pour into (just like you can’t only have water or a plant to get a flower) or else it wouldn’t work. Maybe the Engineers didn’t see when and how it evolved and got surprised?

Alright, so if the Engineers are not the creators then who or what is it? Maybe there is some hierarchy above the Engineers (as I think have been mentioned in some discussions here in the past). David has more in common with them, who are them and in what way are they and David connected?

New monsters would be cool, monsters that don’t need to be related to the Xeno at all but that could still be inventions that the Engineers did. I think that this could be interesting since it would expand the role of the Engineers and have them as the biggest threat while still showing more monsters.

“So i think on both accounts, we dont need to see the Space Jockey getting on his ship and how the Eggs got there and then how he got infected and where he was going and then seeing him chest busted to give us the answers of Where those Eggs came to be and what purpose they had.“

Maybe, if they explain it in a good way. If they have the Space Jockey when he gets on the plane as the last scene then it would explain it.

Why did they ruined the movie with this Alien nonsense - I want Ancient Alien style plot. Not some creature from a super hit movie in the 80s.

Triceradon: I disagree, it would have been worse as a stand-alone movie but since we will get a follow-up (more tied to Alien) it will probably be better IMO but it depends a lot if they will get better characters this time. To me it wouldn't have been very interesting without the Alien ties but that is about personal taste although I admit that it wasn't very clear that it was a prequel to Alien.

I think they indeed would learn from mistakes regarding the ambiguity or Prometheus..... but i still think they would want to create a few Mysteries and i also think they would have some things a bit vague so that we have to go and watch the Movie more than once to make out some things we could have missed.

But i think the main Plot would have to be written and shown in a way that is less ambiguous unless any ambiguous things they will do in a way that hints they would be cleared up in the next movie after the Prometheus sequel.

"Alright, so if the Engineers are not the creators then who or what is it? Maybe there is some hierarchy above the Engineers (as I think have been mentioned in some discussions here in the past). David has more in common with them, who are them and in what way are they and David connected?"

Who knows... it could be as far as being created to serve a certain purpose?