Alien: Earth and Alien: Romulus sequel news

Inferance from Prometheus: The Real Plot

https://alien-covenant.com/forum/
Forum Topic
10262 Views54 Replies

Blitzen

MemberOvomorphNovember 17, 2016

The truth is that the Engineers are 100% human (shown in the lab of the ship). My guess is that the Engineers (humans) evolved on Earth 300,000 years ago (from Homo Ergaster just like the rest of us), but a civil war over the ethics of gene manipulation divided them during pre-history (obviously a former industrial age took place and the evidence was eradicated). The ‘ubermensch’ types, who favored the alteration of the human genome, left Earth and began playing around in space (basically a 250,000 year head start to spacefaring). The space borne humans altered their genes and ended up becoming the Engineers but technically, they’re still human, just upgraded. They left the natural human populace on Earth, in a primitive bronze age without the technology that they’d once had. But the Engineers continued to interfere with Earth’s natural human population in the form of false deities and miracles. When the Romans killed Jesus who was an engineer (2000 years before present day as Shaw said) a RADICAL group of Engineers were going to go and kill the Romans but they were sabotaged from within due to politics. You see, Earth is an Engineer PRESERVE, a natural and physical account of their human origin, a control like in an experiment. They generally do not want to hurt Earth, they want to protect it. The weapons factory on the Prometheus moon is a crime scene essentially. Engineers from within that military stronghold had defected upon news of Jesus’ crucifixion and were going to break policy and go slaughter some Romans, but certain engineers would not allow it to happen and by any means possible, unfortunately using their own dirty weapons, they sacked the defectors before they could carry out their plan. This explains the potential hostility from the Engineers that the movie hints at and also preserves Darwinism. Lets be real, if the franchise wants to deny our origins with dozens of hominids over the last 4 million years, or worse yet, they want to insinuate that the Engineers are Billions of years old and personally directed 1 billion years of Earth's evolution to perfectly match their own DNA......its going to look very stupid. No, the Engineers evolved on Earth.

The black goo is the real story. The goo is one of two things, or both. It’s either purely for warfare against enemy aliens or it’s used to sterilize genetics on an alien world. They do this so that they can rebuild the environment to suit mammals and Earth originated species of plants and animals. Alien worlds contain lifeforms and plant compounds that are poisonous to other life so they have to be 100% neutralized so they use the black goo. Once the mutagen has done its job and produced monsters and erased the natural environment, they somehow neutralize the products of the goo (various Xenomorphs). Xenomorphs aren’t a species, they are just mutagen infected native species who themselves will continue to evolve because they keep taking more hosts. Once the host supply is exhausted, the mutagen’s path of destruction ends. At that point, it may not be that hard to get rid of the mutagen’s products (eggs, facehuggers and remaining Xenomorphs). They wipe up the mess and start introducing desirable life compounds, DNA and plant forms. This is how paradise is built on new habitable worlds that the Engineers are managing. But the Engineers are not immune to political differences and rogues who would act alone or in rebel sects.

User Avatar
BigDave
Group: Member
Rank: Deacon
View Profile

Interesting replies SM

"Engineers visited in 620 and 600 CE.  Centuries after Christ."

Indeed the other Star Maps confirm some kind of interaction after the death of Christ... i think now though this is just coincidence and they are not literally trying to say there was Jesus but certainly at that point as Ridley had said Mankind went off the rails as far as how we behaved compared to how we was supposed to.  oh this is not really aimed at you SM... just general about the 2000 years ago event.

So as you said though, these maps was still being created after the Outbreak 2000 years ago... maybe some Engineers came back?  this opens up where did they go?

Or it could be a passing off information down generations so some of the Star Maps may not have been as a result of Direct Contact with Engineers, but then it could do.

i think the findings of Holloway and Shaw dated after 2000 years ago, when those Engineers had all but died, does raise some questions..... not sure if its a Plot Hole or Oversight.

But with Alien Covenant and sequels they could surely give us information that may tell us what remained of the Engineers after that outbreak, and if they was all Malicious as far as intentions at that time and after towards mankind.

"They kickstarted human life - not all life. The opening titles are effectively confirming Shaw and Holloway's hypothesis."

I think this is what Spaights draft was showing... but then its not to say they never created other life on Earth.

Lindeloffs did suggest either the event that provide the building blocks of all life, so vastly a long time ago... but then the World had Water, its had Clouds, it had Green Plant Life and so basic Life was already there... and so i took it as the Catalyst that kickstarted and allowed basic Life to Evolve into Multi-cell Complex Life.

However Ridley came out and said that scene did not have to be Earth.... but we all know it was meant to show that similar interaction had happened on Earth to Manipulate DNA to become Human.

Regardless of any i contradictions of flaws people may find in that theory too..

Ridley had in more than one instance said the process was continuous....  it was never a case of Sacrifice and then wait Millions of years and we got Humans.

They came back and upgraded/evolved our Evolutionary path over and over...

Whats interesting would be if the Process and Agenda of their Genetic Interactions was to never create Mankind but other forms of life on Earth even Primates say..

But a rogue faction of Engineered decided to add their Gene-pool one more step further to produce Mankind and then got us to Worship them.... i.e the Sin committed by a Faction that caused a up-raw within the Hierarchy.

Its  a theory but again one of many many, and it would be interesting to see how they explore the whole purpose for creation and visits to us and then abandoned us.. the Plot is Bold and Broad the Scope Huge and possible answers to it all... well is there any One Fits all answer?

Not yet and thats the wonder of the movie and its ambiguity

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

User Avatar
S.M
Group: Member
Rank: Xenomorph
View Profile

I think they were tinkering with the 'Jesus = Engineer' idea earlier on, but it was ultimately removed.

"Thus there is no 100% Proof  or disproof the Transmission was aimed at trying to contact any would be inhabitants on LV-223. "

If not trying to contact the Engineers - then what was the point of the transmission?  Holloway even comments that maybe they couldn't understand it.

User Avatar
oduodu
Group: Member
Rank: Xenomorph
View Profile

The engineers
Visited us after 
The LV 223 outbreak?

How's that possible ?

User Avatar
S.M
Group: Member
Rank: Xenomorph
View Profile

'Cos there's carvings dated after the outbreak circa 100 CE.

Obvious answer is they came from somewhere other than LV-223, but ultimately it remains unanswered.  Maybe whoever unleashed the accelerant (to stop his colleagues from destroying Earth) on LV-223 survived and continued to visit over the centuries.

Maybe none of them came from LV-223.

User Avatar
Determinism
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

BigDave, I started a new thread because this account istied to my work email..opps

Anyway, I agree that we can't take it all too seriously as far as scientific facts are known. If I'm willing to accept that their spaceships go past the speed of light, then I should be able to accept that the directed evolution for millions of years and even honed the species to be an identical match to their own. Its far fetched but still very exciting. I love it.

Thanks for your contribution and SM too. Have a good day.

User Avatar
BigDave
Group: Member
Rank: Deacon
View Profile

"Holloway even comments that maybe they couldn't understand it."

You know what that is something i maybe overlooked.... GOOD Point SM... think my mind was thinking too much of the Viral sites again lol

As for the CE Dates i gave some answers in the new thread set up above by Determinism

If the Space Jesus is something connected... which yes Ridley did tease this in, but felt it was a bit to on the nose and he said we needed to look at that time when Romans was misbehaving and Engineers sent down a Emissary and then they crucified him.

This could still play a key role....   to make the 2000 year old outbreak no Coincidence.... we have to remember as far as the Movie goes its not trying to say that the Events are based on the Bible.... nope its trying to suggest that the Events of the Bible is just one of Mankinds interpretations by visits from the Engineers.

So they could have sent many Emissaries to try and sort us out.... It does not have to be just the Jesus One... there could have been a number,  maybe these guys are the ones who influenced the Cave Painting and then other Star Map Clues?

2000 years ago we had upset the Engineers or their creators and we had hunted down and killed off the Emissaries.

But a few survived after 2000 years ago.... these where in the South Americas for instance... this would go some way to explain the latter Star Maps....

Thats not to say this is what happened.... regardless of Ridley saying about the Emissary the Romans Crucified.... this should be looked at them sending some other beings down however.

But we dont know if that method of thinking they had (Ridley) is what they are now...  so the CE Star Maps should maybe be looked at another Oversight that should not distract us from the Movies Plot.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

User Avatar
BigDave
Group: Member
Rank: Deacon
View Profile

I am going to comment on one of the previous posts where the OT had made it known about a few things including how If the Engineers Kickstarted Evolution or even the Sacrifice caused the Start of Building Blocks of Life then how can they have 100% DNA Match...

Your correct Determinism  as far as how unlikely that would be, but as i said before we cant get trying to be too Scientific, but it is a oversight and lack of research by the writers to try and be more accurate, and so it can be a combination of Lazy Writing and research too.

Spaights was more simple as it seemed to show the Engineers DNA input was via a Primate and so Engineer DNA + Primate DNA gives us Mankind or our Start... the Engineer Sacrifice was that missing link.... but alas Spaights draft is flawed, because the Primate was Evolved into a Human via being bitten by a Scarab that had Engineer DNA (From the Sacrificial Scene) and it implied that there would be thousands of Scarabs that consumed the Engineers DNA and carried it and so what about if any of those bite and passed Engineer DNA to a Cow.. would we not have like Minotaur looking Humanoids?

So yes they are both flawed..... but Ridley attempted to clear it up when he said the Engineers visited us over and over and they have Evolved us Technologically (like Prometheus did) this includes teaching Mankind maybe how to build Ancient Buildings, and Tools and Weapons and that as the Greek Mythos suggested without the Engineers/Prometheus interaction then Mankind would be just as Cave Men still.

Ridley also suggested they Evolved us Genetically, and so if they came back over and over and further spliced their DNA with our Ancestors this fixes all those BUGS/Plot Devices or Bad Writing... It would make either Spaights or Lindeloffs Engineer Seeding/Sacrifice Scene fit in with how they match our DNA.

I hope they explore this more in the next movie so to clear up on screen those inconsistencies.. but they may not because maybe only a handful of people are expected to or would pick up on the odd error here and there.

As far as it being unlikely as far as the whole Processs... we need to remember its Sci-Fi and the Sacrificial Goo is some Ancient and very Powerful Tool.

Its Process is to break down the DNA of anything that consumes it, this DNA is broken down and also Forms part of a New Mutagenic Substance that also adds so Evolutionary Accelerant to it too.

The Result is this new Substance Created after the Sacrificial Scene will then

1st Pass on the Traits/DNA of the Organism Sacrificed (using the Sacrificial Goo) to produce this substance, onto any Organism it comes into contact with....

2nd It keeps and evolves the best Traits/DNA of the Organism that comes into contact with the substance that is the result of the Sacrificial Scene.

Thus its my theory (some others had the same) that the Sacrificial Goo was used on something related to the Xenomorph to Produce the Black Goo in those Urns.

The Mural was either the Organism Sacrificed or the Perfect Result they reached via a series of experiments with the Black Goo obtained from something similar to the Xenomorph via Sacrificial Method.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

User Avatar
BigDave
Group: Member
Rank: Deacon
View Profile

You also make some good points that i missed out on at times, like how SM had reminded me of the odd slight detail within Prometheus... as far as Dialog..

SM point on the Transmission and Holloway saying something like maybe they cant understand it... which indeed means the Transmission was intended and sent to LV-223 to see if they get a response prior to landing etc.

And so yes Determinism i liked one point you made, and that was about the Ship the Engineer took off in and going to Earth.

Indeed they knew it was going to Earth... well as you then pointed out.... David did. 

Hang on just remembered before jumping to your side.... and saying David never told Shaw... she just Told Janek they must Stop the Ship or there wont be any home to go back to. 

I will have to watch the movie again... but i am sure as David with Weyland and Shaw etc entered the Juggernaught, David mentioned about how they was on there way to Earth before things went to Pot.....  Shaw said what do you mean... he said "sometimes to create one must first destroy".

I am sure this was prior to the Engineer being awoken i will confirm latter as i watch the movie again.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

User Avatar
Determinism
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

You're right, when they awake the engineer. David tells Shaw that they'd been headed to Earth (the engineers) and he says "to create, you must destroy." But he was referring to a mission that was supposed to leave 2000 years ago. Later, after the Engineer whoops their butts and Shaw runs off. She makes the assumption that the Engineer is headed to Earth in real time, to kill everyone. She is basing it on David's dialogue. She can't be sure, how does she know, she knows nothing! She makes super assumptions. Yes, she was right but still. While she is running away, out of her sight, the Engineer is setting a crystal clear plot to go to Earth, its unmistakable and its the best view of holographic Earth we get. A bright trajectory course is set towards it. So the Engineer was going to Earth for sure and since the ship was filled to the Brim with black goo urns that turn people into monsters....I can guess that his ambitions were less than friendly.

I accept all of this. I also accept that the writer told the whole story through dialog and that the characters made huge jumps and assumptions in order to carry the story. Its a strategy of story telling. Its also a weak strategy. But alas I accept the movie the way it is, what can I do? Deal with it lol. But I don't appreciate the writer for sure. I think he got Ridley Scott into a corner that will be hard to get out of.

I think the Goo thing has people going absolutely wild and jumping to such outlandish claims. But you're right, we have to take it as fiction and just let stuff go. Hey, at least they use cryosleep chambers and understand the depth of space. How many movies are just pure crap when it comes to space flight? Star Trek makes me want to puke and don't even ask me about Star Wars. Absolute apathy. Oh you don't even know how much I hate that stuff. I like both Solaris movies though.

I was hoping that there'd be a strict demeanor when it came to the Alien movies. They've kept it pretty down to Earth and realistic. I can let the FTL travel go. The religious overtones are agitating but I can deal with it. Ill probably be pissed though if they get too windy with the genetics being too outlandish. For now, the way Prometheus left us, they haven't lost me yet but they're positing (not confirming) a lot of bologna. We'll see! You know Ill love it anyway LOL 

User Avatar
S.M
Group: Member
Rank: Xenomorph
View Profile

"She is basing it on David's dialogue. She can't be sure, how does she know, she knows nothing! She makes super assumptions."

Does it matter?  She made an informed guess and was completely correct. Considering the orrery scene and the Engineers actions in killing Weyland, Jackson, Ford and ripping David's head off - where else would he be going but Earth?

Also you seem to be unhappy at the amount of exposition while simultaneously being unhappy with things not being as explicit as you'd like?

User Avatar
BigDave
Group: Member
Rank: Deacon
View Profile

Indeed SM and i think Determinism was agreeing that she had made a educated assumption...

But as you may be trying to say too....  We have to look at if at her point of view..   She comes here hoping to find clues to the creation of Mankind and our Gods..

What she finds is a Place that is a Horror Show, these Gods are not Gods, they also was creating something very nasty.... she finds out the Ship David takes them too (when Weyland is with them) has a Cargo full of these Urn Bio Weapons.

No soon as she sees the Engineer acts aggressively towards the crew and Davids comments about they was off to Earth before things went to Pot.... and to create one must destroy.

Unless she is stupid she should know the Engineers were likely making stuff to use on us....   She would surely not take the risk that oh.... That Engineer seemed a bit ok..  until Weyland pissed him off....  maybe he has vented his anger now..

Nope she had a Hunch a instinct and well Facts was in her face that the Engineer was likely to be off to Finish the Job, that he may also had intended.

If she had any question over that.... i am sure once he Went Postal on the Crew that awoke him she would be in NO DOUBTS.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

User Avatar
S.M
Group: Member
Rank: Xenomorph
View Profile

 "We have to look at if at her point of view..  "

I was.

User Avatar
BigDave
Group: Member
Rank: Deacon
View Profile

I know you was.... it was meant for the OP ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

User Avatar
S.M
Group: Member
Rank: Xenomorph
View Profile

Ah.  Righto.

Join the discussion!



Recently Active Forums
Alien: Earth Series
Alien: Earth SeriesDiscuss the Alien FX TV series here!
Alien: Covenant
Alien: CovenantDiscuss the Prometheus Sequel, Alien: Covenant
Prometheus Fan Art
Prometheus Fan ArtArtwork & Fiction From the Fans
Alien
AlienDiscuss all things Alien here
New Forum Topics
Hot Forum Topics
Highest Forum Ranks Unlocked
Svanya
Svanya » Praetorian
89% To Next Rank
ninXeno426
ninXeno426 » Praetorian
62% To Next Rank
Thoughts_Dreams
Thoughts_Dreams » Neomorph
88% To Next Rank
Neomorph
Neomorph » Chestburster
94% To Next Rank
cuponator3000
cuponator3000 » Chestburster
84% To Next Rank
Latest Media
Community Stats
This Alien Movie Universe community is part of the Scified network. Scified hosts a network of online fan-site communities containing 406,482 posts by 48,459 members (13 are online now). The Alien: Earth Series Forum is the most recently active forum. The latest Forum topic added was: Alien Earth parallels
VIPWhat are VIP?AdminModeratorSpecial TitleMember
Join the discussion!
Please sign in to access your profile features!
(Signing in also removes ads!)



Forgot Password?
Scified Website LogoYour sci-fi community, old-school & modern
Hosted Fansites
AlienFansite
GodzillaFansite
PredatorFansite
Main Menu
Community
Sci-Fi Movies
Help & Info
+

Sign In to contribute!