LV-426 or NOT?

Thank you MuzzleNZ.Somebody needed to say it.

uh oh...we're jumping to conclusions here arent we muzz? i love scott. hes a genius. you dont want me to mention him? preposterous! we're on a website about HIS movie silly one! and as far as i can tell hes making the right moves. why else would i praise his strategy? can't you see? i admire his purity...muwaha! mark me pro scott!

If reading your posts is jumping to conclusions, guilty as charged.

Ignore mode engaged. Deleted argument.

 Chill out Tiago.He just recommended that you start a separate forum about this.

Deleted

yes muzz you are guilty...but mostly of being human. for it is human to err. i proudly stand a royal guard at scotts throne...but worry not for he and i are merciful. we both know how common it can been to suffer a brain glitch when processing the written word....and we forgive you! *HUGS*

I've just had an idea! as an act of diplomacy i will move forward and create the thread that has been requested. i'll do this darn thing justice and give others a place to discuss the master scott

That's fine 

Its ok to debate ladies and gents.... everyone is entitled to a opinion...

I look at things Logically and see if evidence to support it, and i welcome counter claims, evidence or ideas and its interested to debate and either agree or suggest alternatives.

QES and others had posed a interesting idea, and yes a Landscape can become so badly changed that what once maybe supported life does not no more...

Mars could be used as a potential example... but it has to be some drastic event to turn Paradise to LV-426 within the span of 18 years.

But that does not mean it cant be ruled out.... we cant rule out how much Force a Engineer ship can take...  it took a pretty good hit off the Prometheus and then Rolled a fair bit and yet on the outside looked like it suffered not even a scratch...

Internally we can assume (and scene was shot) the crash had knocked the Engineer from his Pilot Chair or affected the Ships Ability to take off again...  I safely assume this because why would the Engineer go off after Shaw... was he so angered by the Humans...  Surely he would just go back into his Pilot Seat and set off again...

If the Ship was able to be flown again... surely David would informed Shaw they could use it... instead of another.

The same applies to the Ship in AC... surely if it could take off, then David would attempted to do so?

But structurally wise we cant be sure how much damage the ship can take, what would it take to destroy the ship structurally?

The Derelict had been affected by Volcanic Activity and yet it still remained in somewhat decent shape... it was not totally destroyed.....  would a Nuke Blast destroy it?  It appears not if we take Colonial Marines as Canon... or Ponder where Blomkamps Alien 5 obtained a Engineer Ship.

The Big Problem with having the Ships able to sustain a very large disaster or event that would turn a Earth like World to a Mars like Rock... would be if a Derelict could remain in the shape it did... then how they hell does the company not go and obtain the Juggernaughts on LV-223... surely  some event would have to destroy that place... but what event could totally render it destroyed.

So yes there is a valid point to a World going from Earth to Mars... and how a Engineer Ship can survive a lot of damage.

Onto the Pilot Chamber... again a nice counter-case... maybe indeed the Pilot Chamber can change... the Pilot Seat is hidden under that chamber...

Yes potentially maybe those Cryo-Pods could lift up and then swivel upside down and then drop, but there is still a few differences that seem from a Mechanical point of view with regards to the design that would not still fit in with the design of the Derelict...

But it could be a oversight we are not meant to consider... such as for instance how we will question after AC and its sequels why the 1979 Xeno looks different... as far as the Legs and Movement ... we would be expected to just overlook this oversight... like how Alien Isolation is supposed to be looked at as far as again the Xeno look... as it seems the Alien Isolation look is the way they will reveal the Big Chap to now be Aesthetically designed.

I think the Aesthetics of the Derelict interior walls compared to the Juggernaught is a bigger STRETCH as one is More Organic and the other more Mechanical if the Juggernaught on Paradise is the Derelict then maybe some event has happened to cause it to become more Organic.

Ridley Scott did say the Juggernaughts are in New Pristine Condition and Derelict was well dilapidated and decayed... still does not quite fit what we are seeing..

But the Juggernaught in AC appears to have been overran with vines and plant matter  maybe this stuff infected with Black Goo could cause it to combine with the Juggernaught and infect it and changes its appearence..

Yes some would bring up the whole Mechanical and Synthetics have no DNA like Plants and Organisms and cant be infected.... but this is Sci-Fi and the Xeno and Derelict are a combination of Mechanical and Organics... maybe some event happened to evolve the Juggernaught..

Again within 18 years though?

But again it cant be ruled out...

I will however bring up another aspect to the Smoking Gun...

If we assume the Juggernaught is Crashed on Paradise and becomes the Derelict...

We have to look how in this direct chronological time frame the movie in 18 years leads to Alien.. we have to look at AC and how it ends... where it goes next..

If we look at the case of it being the Derelict lets check list

*Cryo-Pods and Control Panel and Steps, can Morph away to be hidden like a Transformer...can change from Robot to Vehicle/plane etc.

*Ship incurs a event that somehow degrades its interior. and evolves it to become more Organic Looking...

*Landscape incurs a event that renders it to more of a baron rock.

All viable....

But then we are left with at the end of Covenant or how the crew discover the Juggernaught.....  NO ONE IN THE PILOT CHAIR..

At some point someone would have to attempt to get into the Pilot Chair and take off, and those Eggs end up in the Cargo Hold.

This Pilot would have to be infected with a Face Hugger, or Spores.

*Can a Synthetic be infected?

*Is Walter not actually a Synthetic but a Synthetic Construct?

If the answer to either of those is YES then we have to ask... does David and Walter survive AC and so One of them goes onto the Covenant and the other remains and tries to start up the Juggernaught.

If only One Survives... then does Daniels leave on the Covenant and leave the David/Walter behind on Paradise... we have to question then where does Daniels go and if there is no David or Walter on the Covenant then where does Daniels go next and how can this then evolve to expand upon Alien and clues and maybe Engineers.. or are they going to happily find a new place to colonize?

And also... why would a David/Walter set off the SOS in a Alien Language... especially if the Juggernaught transmitted a signal in a language the Covenant could decipher.. the only logical reason would be to Warn the Engineers but why?

If we answer NO to David/Walter being infected with the Xeno or Spore...

Then who else gets into the Chair after AC?  Shaw?, any survivors from the Covenant left behind? What reason would anyone of them have for staying down unless forgotten and presumed lost or dead?

Again why is the SOS in Alien.. and not a language or way a Human can decipher unless its a automated one set off.. but how would a Human know how to do this?

Maybe a Engineer at a latter date arrives, and attempts to take off in the Juggernaught but gets infected... this would be a ideal explanation if we are going the whole AC Juggernaught is the Derelict route...

This Engineer would have to be on Paradise prior though.... as if he arrived latter via  a Ship, why would he leave his ship to then try and use the Derelict...

The only Logical explanation is he investigates the crashed Juggernaught... gets infected.. awakens and then sets off a SOS to warn his fellow brothers....

But what happens to his other Ship?

The only logical answer would be more than One Engineer arrives..  one gets infected and then sets the SOS off to warn  the other/others what happened...

Then we have to ask... where does this/these other Engineers go... do they then go after the Covenant? This would have to be the Logical way if we go by the above events.. so that the AC sequel can touch upon the Engineers more....

some event if this is the case in the sequel would mean a encounter between the Covenant and Engineer ship which has to end with the Engineers being destroyed or else this brings up a whole lot of Plot Holes as far as Engineers not being involved in Alien movies.

So i think it all adds up unless it follows the events i put as far as Engineers at the bottom of my reply above...  i think it adds up to the Juggernaught in AC and Derelict being the same as being very very unlikely.

I agree, MuzzleNZ. Let's stick to the subject.

I wonder if the idea that David destroys LV-426 (If they had crash landed there) match with the fact that the space-jockey was “fossilized” (thousands of years old)? I suppose you mean that AC ends with The Covenant leaving the moon, and an engineer tries to leave with the juggernaut David and Shaw crash landed with but is caught by a facehugger and dies in the pilot chair? The corps would then have been there for 19 years or so? We have also more movies coming before the connection to Alien will be accomplished, I believe?

I also believe that the biological weapon that the engineers had constructed was meant to wipe out all living creatures, not the entire planet? I think the point was that they were dissatisfied with the outcome of the experiment of humans and wanted to start all over again - not totally destroy the whole planet?

maybe our aggressive nature is too much like theyr own and the see us as a future threat?

ali81: Yes, and their cloaks seem to imply that they have come further and that they are disappointed with their "children"?

But, can "Paradise" be LV-426? I have a problem with the time-issue (space-jockey being fossilised).

@QES 1200km diameter means there was never life there ever unless it was 90% bigger once.  It spins too fast to maintain a breathable atmosphere.  We're not talking about environmental shift we are talking about one of the chunks leftover after a death Star hit. That's all LV-426 could be if it was once Paradise. Ever. Leftovers from a total planetary detonation. And you are proposing that the derelict not only survived that, but stayed in the EXACT same position.

According to this http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/alien/46737/alien-covenant-why-its-preview-footage-got-us-all-excited A:C takes place in Zeta 2 Reticuli, the very system LV-223 and LV-426 are located in. 

Wether 223, 426 or another planet/moon in Z2R is "Covenant" remains to be seen. 

As for the picture comparisons their POV have different ankles therefor judgement is tricky. Given we ignore the shape differences. 

I really hope it isn't as to me, the obvious arc is david did it and that stinks imo everything about it is lazy. I don't think it is as I don't think lv426, being only 1200km across is big enough to sustain such a lush eco system.

I've just saw the movie, it was awesome.