Scified veterans (Prometheus)

Thanks Lone, yeah I've mentioned the issues so many times too but it was never to step on other's toes, just to discuss things in, again, an attempt too see things from other people's perspective.

Baconmetheus!!! Yeah I remember the bacon symbolism in the prometheus-movie forum! Now that you mention it also I remember HAL 9000, Spartacus and Prenhility. How could I forget XD 

@Chris wow Neurion is a super veteran then. His posts were hilarious. Often kinky, but hilarious XD  

Shout out to the veterans!!! Assembleeeee!!!!

*everybody be like, who the f*** is "Neamorf"?* 

I think that recent activity for AC has just suddenly exploded. I don’t think it is as the same intensity as Prometheus. I certainly remember when I joined the forum, there were characters like Spartacus, who would help keep a lid on peoples exuberance. I still remember those threads that are no longer with us.

Indeed Spartacus he did have a few run ins with people over certain things, even me lol so i decided to have a break for a bit and when i came back he had gone.

Cant fault his passion for the Franchise, still to this day i have not made as many posts as he did in the short time he was on..

6,008 Posts in just 11 Months... thats some Effort...

I've been a member since 2012 and visited since 2011.  I think the overall emotional level is lower this time around. Prometheus has tempered expectations.  It was a visual masterpiece with some very nice elements but some of the script from Lindoff was dreadful ---

I remember Spartacus, svanya and forever war. Seems like forever ago. I was still in the army, living in Texas and my third daughter hadn't been born yet.

It was a visual masterpiece with some very nice elements but some of the script from Lindoff was dreadful

Exactly 

I dont agree ;)

Lindeloffs Script was not bad...  it certainly is better than the movie that was Shot, never mind the Butchered Cut we ended up with.

Between Spaights and Lindeloffs drafts was potentially the PREFECT Movie ;)

By that i mean after Lindeloffs was done, if it was passed back to Spaights to Tidy up and have characters more like his and not as corny as Lindeloffs....  and to then have Spaights insert a few of his ideas back into it then we have a good movie.

I was going to work on this... i got so far but abandoned it

I'd be more inclined to agree if LOST didn't have similar issues of leaving the payoff out after all that buildup. 

And I'm sure that "I love rocks!!", "yes father", "pets the aggressive snake", "cannot run sideways but along and underneath the rolling juggernaut", "starts to run around despite torn abdominal muscles", "gets lost despite having the map equipment" and many many many many many more hilariously idiotic things from the film originated at the tip of Lindelofs pen or keyboard as he started writing and writing but forgot how how silly, illogical and downright bad it would turn out.

The thing is though a lot of those things are not in his draft ;)

The draft they shot the movie from or the process of getting it to screen was a mess... 

It was a bit too Goofy in areas too, Spaights was a bit to boring and Robotic... it needed a mixing up.  Lindeloff was too vague but Spaights too Spoon Fed.

Basically had Holloway giving away the entire plot via his dialog.

Both drafts were Flawed, between them was a Masterpiece.

Prometheus got ripped on badly for a lot of silly things, and dumb things... but i can already see many silly things with Alien Covenant which i was going to do a Topic about.

But these could be actually not so silly depending on the full movie, and how the timeline of events take place in the movie.

For example... if we assume 4Chan leaks etc are correct.

Crudup has seen Dead Engineers, Seen nothing is alive, Shaw's Dog Tag.. who the hell is that he would ask... seen members of his crew die,  seen the Drop Ship Blow up...  No doubt be warned about David.

And yet he thinks its a great idea to stick his head into a Egg.

Super more Dumb than Milburn... and this guy is the Captain... (and he has seen Davids Lab first).

This would be like Holloway seeing David examine the Black Goo and make notes on the wall, and then be prepared for David to offer him a drink

But in reality we dont know what the movie is about as far as how it pans out and indeed which scene takes place where... if we ignore 4Chan leaks.

Or even take them on board... regardless.. they could give us good reason for why Crudup would do this in spite of everything he has seen.

The Actual Time-frame this scene happens could answer us a lot.  Also if Crudup thinks this is Walter, it would maybe explain why he would do such a thing.., as surely Walter is a Good Robot.

So yes we dont know yet, i hope they learn from Prometheus with such  things..

But in early drafts, Fifield was Stoned and he handled the snake and threw it at Milburn...   Also they both thought the other had the Map...

How many times in real life have we seen us make same mistakes.. for example you go out on a night out with your wife and you think she took the House Keys, while she thought you had them..

Result... neither has and your locked out...

In the draft this was kind of the deal with the Map.  I think they have learned their mistakes this time.. but time will tell.

[WARNING]

*Neomorph #triggered- levels critical* 

--Activate immediate safety measures--

Neo:

-----------> calm down

-----------> eat ice 

-----------> take a deep breath 

-----------> think about dolphins.

-----------> Prometheus juuust a film

-----------> Right? 

*critical outburst about logic aborted* 

Big Dave it's hard not to admire your professional way of replying. 

You make some valid points even though I'll never change my mind on the result which is the film and I still partly, but not only, blame Lindelof for that. 

As for AC, I think we shouldn't jump to conclusions about certain short clips from the trailers as we've yet to see the context to the scenes. We can have impressions.

I have to defend the curiosity towards the opening egg though (also happened in Alien and I haven't heard many complaints about that)

Ok so let's play with the thought that you've never seen any of the Alien films and you come across a Xeno egg. 

It opens.

Something inside moves but you can't tell what it is. So you want to get just a little bit closer and lean forward a bit  (still from a "safe" distance you believe)

Never in your imagination would you expect a face-hugging parasite to get launched like a projectile to your face. Especially considering that it's hidden beneath all that disgusting stuff that moves slooowly.

Possible outcome in AC with the latest leaks revealed:

AC SPOILER

David (assuming that it's him in the egg room) wants the last "ingredient", so he tells Crudup to get close and examine the egg  (oh it's safe!) BAM. "Gotcha b**ch!"Lol

Scenario 2:

A hissing, seemingly aggressive space snake erects from the ground. What do you do? Try to pet it as it gets increasingly aggressive? No

Stay at a safe distance, do not touch that vagina snake! 

Milburn: Must.... pet.... vagi*CHOMP* AAAAAAAHHHHH why did I do thaaaat!!

I agree with Neomorph.  We have to see it from Oram's situation.  He has no idea what is about to happen.  In Alien, they find a derelict ship, a huge dead alien, with a hole in his chest, find "leathery objects like eggs or something", see movement inside of the egg, gets ashock from touching the egg, Kane even draws a weapon    but still looks!!

He doesn't know what will launch at him.  Who would?  Eggs.....we think that hatching is a gradual, slow emergence after a heartbreaking effort from the life inside struggling to survive.  

Even Velociraptors are vulnerable, delicate and slow when they emerge.  Or crocodiles, sharks etc.  No one expects something to explode and attack the viewer of the birth in a fraction of a second.  The first act of birth is to launch, attach, secure, penetrate, lay an egg and comatose the victim.  All in about 2 seconds.  Icky May!  Wow.

As far as the script goes.  we can look at if's but's and maybe's but what we got is what we saw.  An iffy script (at times) and iffy editing.  There was a great film there left on the editing floor.  Remember the visuals got a Oscar nomination?

Exactly! You'd expect a slow birth process, not a lightning quick facehugger that catches you off guard. 

The xeno eggs may have lost their element of surprise long ago, but we have to keep in mind that this is the first time the Covenant crew stumbles upon these eggs, and Crudup has no idea that something terrible could or is about to happen, apart from most other horror film clichés where it should be obvious that danger awaits  (approaching and entering dark room with the killer inside despite your friends yelling "what are you doing!?" )

As for Milburn, playing with hissing snakes is something we learn as children not to do on earth. Great idea Milburn, it gave you like 3-4 warnings before biting too. What did you expect? 

The visuals in Prometheus were amazing, no criticism there. Sometimes stunning. Only beaten by the jaw-dropping CGI in District 9 imo 

This went beyond the OP and that is AWESOME! I enjoy reading the "old codgers" before my time re connect and reminisce! Please continue. Hopefully newer folks will see that this is a cool site and feel welcome.

"I have to defend the curiosity towards the opening egg though (also happened in Alien and I haven't heard many complaints about that)"

Indeed Kane had fallen down into the Egg Chamber it was not like he walked there intentionally and when he saw the Eggs this is when Curiosity kicked in.

He reacted in a natural way.

Crudups Character however, depends on what events he had already seen.  If the Spore Infections had not happened, and if the Davids Lab did not have as many gruesome things then you could be forgiven for him showing a bit of curiosity.

I am not bashing AC though, as i hope they have plausible explanations... The Trailer does not show us the Full series of Events.

HOWEVER.... from one interview that Billy Crudup did, his Character is a bit naive like Shaw, he is fascinated by Life in General and sees all Life in the Universe as works of God.

This interest and Naivety is what maybe David plays upon...  i think Crudups Character can be seen as kind of a Cross between Shaw and Milburn.

I do think once the movie comes out it will get its share of critics who try to analyze such things... sometimes Plot Devices are needed.

We needed Milburn to Act Stupid to show case the Hammerpedes,  there are other things in other Alien movies that would not happen if every body on the Ship was basically a Ripley and Vickers.

We have to accept they are needed to drive the Plot, only indeed hopefully they are better thought out in this movie

I think Lindeloff brought some great ideas... but i think this is as far as he should be used... the movie needed someone else to come along and Polish the movie draft over again.

We indeed see some flaws in the movie that do relate to Lost a bit.  But there are a number of differences between Lindeloffs Draft and the Final Movie and unless we know for sure of Lindeloff made another Draft for shooting from.

Then a lot of problems come from those who take the Drafts, to a Screen Play that is used to shoot the movie.

I will have to attempt that re-write of Prometheus some day, it would have used mainly Lindeloffs draft but tidied up some of the stuff and goofy goings on....  make the Character use a bit more like Spaights but not as kind of robotic...

Then throw some interesting additions to make things make more sense...

The Result would have been not as ambiguous as Lindeloffs, but not as Spoon Fed as Spaights.   And both had flaws... which i was to attempt to adress

As far as Alieny movie goes, it would have not been as much as Spaights but certainly would have added more DNA and connections than Lindeloffs.

I will have to get back to it some time.

@Regular Parrot

Totally agree... its one of the biggest frustrations as indeed there was a potential Masterpiece here, just needed someone to take Lindeloffs Draft.... look at Spaights and keep Lindeloffs Plot points etc... just make the Dialog a bit more Spaights in some parts.

Prometheus/Lindeloffs had a number of unnecessary Cheesy Moments and Gags.  But then Aliens brought them into play too.

Alien was more serious approach as far as Characters and this is what Spaights attempted to do.  I think its a tale of TWO different takes on the movie.

I would think a Re-write and Tidy up of Lindeloffs work and also the same with Spaights would give us TWO better but different movies to Prometheus.

Hopefully Alien Covenant gets the Balance right.

We needed Milburn to Act Stupid to show case the Hammerpedes, there are other things in other Alien movies that would not happen if every body on the Ship was basically a Ripley and Vickers.

We have to accept they are needed to drive the Plot

Absolutely, the hammerpede was a plot device set up for a shocker, but then it was quickly abandoned in favor of a the cheap Zombie Fifield, who was only there for a short moment to set up yet another gore scene, and he was quickly dealt with and completely forgotten before yet another gore scene was introduced with the Trilobite plot device.

The pattern here; too many independent shocking gore scenes set up to "conceal" the underwhelming plot,  alternatively to drive it forward in the cheapest way possible a lá Hostel and Saw. Gore works fine for today's impatient youth.

There was not much room for build-up or follow-up in the 3rd and final act of Prometheus, only slides of gore delivered on a choppy (holes) conveyor belt, masked with action and a plot twist that would make M. Night Shyalaman proud.

The scenes are independently shot in a cool fashion much thanks to Ridley but there's no real substance in them other than to "shock" the viewer, rather than letting us reflect upon the previous individual scenes that were now tossed behind like they don't matter.

And the poor engineers who didn't get much room in the film other than being reduced to melee fighting thugs.