Ridley Scott Does not think god created us

@BWW - 'Frankly the whole 'You get rewards after you DIE' thing is less believable than a Nigerian wash-wash scam or other related nonsense meant to take advantage of people.'

lol :) I totally agree.

Reincarnation, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense to me as does Karma.  At the risk of sounding even more pretentious though I must say that both of those concepts aren't what many western people think they are.

I do wonder how much, for e.g., a religion like Christianity actually contemplated those concepts at the onset?  As you say some cynical fellow once upon a time realised he could play on deep seated human fears and control populations by 'dirtying' such ideas . . . (cynicism & irony overload there lol ;) 

I once asked a Vicar his thoughts on life after death and reincarnation.  He gave the usual doctrin and stated he didn't believe in reincarnation.

When I asked him 'who goes to heaven then?' he seemed a bit stumped! ;) 

There is something very special about life - something that makes it stand out from all other matter. There is point and purpose to it - feeling and weight. We are atoms that are aware of ourselves - consciousness and emotion. I do not know what happens after the materials over which we temporarily hold stewardship have changed into new materials. However, I do know this: each of us existed somewhere before our birth - and we will exist somewhere after our physical death. The soul, whatever it is, is very real - and it demands existence.

This discussion reminds me of Tron Legacy when Flynn was talking about the ISOs...

"They Manifested, The conditions were right and they came into being"

"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here. We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?

- Richard Dawkins

I love this quote, its very profound. I'm aware I'm quoting a renowned atheist here but there is surely more to existence than simply existing. Yes Evolution through natural selection is a pure numbers game on an absolutely grand scale - the likelihood of us being here on an individual level is staggering!

Bubba Zanetti

I apologize, I misinterpretted what you said in your post.

Jim Pills

Re; Professor Sir Karl Popper

I'll have a look, he sounds like he had some interesting insights!

Deep Space

Religion, it always ends up being connected to more 'material' things, doesn't it?
Land, wealth, etc. It always makes a great justification to go to war and claim such 'in the name of 'god' ', as seen throughout history and including the historical modern-day events you refer to.
I find religion to be confusing, and very suspect, there's always some ulterior motive involved with it it seems to me, and is borne out by history.

The nature of Reality.
Perception does indeed change reality, strictly small-scale though. The universe has it's Rules. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, where the act of measuring/observine a particle alters aspects of it is an example of Perception altering Reality.

Overall though, reality has a Stability. No it is not 'fixed' but Relative to assorted forces and influences, it is Relatively 'fixed', otherwise this entire universe would be random chaos with no structure.
Yes, matter is just 'solid energy', so to speak, and as we know matter and energy are interchangeable.

As to Perception again, if you put on some imaging systems that allow you to percieve, say, UV light, you are still within this reality-frame, merely able to percieve elements you couldn't before.
We all live in the same Reality, as no matter what our brains and perceptual systems, if a boulder falls on any of us lifeforms, it has the same effect.

Deep Space

Yeah, it can get Interesting when you stump a man-of-the-cloth!

Reincarnation, well, there's too much evidence to support it, and with Thanatological research slowly proceeding, hard science is showing that it's a reality and supports the Empitical and circumstantial evidences found in history.

Needless to say the abrahamic religions are scared spitless of this research.

IRaptus

EXCELLENT quote!!!!

Blackwinter-witch Thank you. It's great isn't it!! Definitely puts your own life into perspective. I look at life from a mostly evolutionary perspective, and this sums it very articulately.    

IRaptus

It's one of those that really make you stop and Think, also it's so Obvious...that most folks never consider things from that perspective!!
It's a truth hidden right under our noses, the whole 'can't see the forest for the trees' idea!

chli - By George, you are right! Sir Ridley Scott is agnostic. My bad!!

Interesting reading everyone's views.

Blackwinter-witch People make religion materialistic. If Jesus really existed he would be dismayed by the discovery of how people have perverted his teachings. I guess it would take a lot of courage to live your life according to his example. You would have to leave your earthly possessions, go wherever poor and sick people need you, etc

joylitt

The main problem isn't the materialism, the main problem is the insane, depraved abuses and hunger for power, control and domination that you find within Religion.

Faith I have no issue with.
Religion, is the province of man's flawed hand, and it shows.

Blackwinter-witch exactly. Power and sex. You want to divorce your woman, you start Protestantism, you want to have dozens of them, you found the Mormon church, etc

You were spying on my the last 4 months and yet you r still stubbornly denying Egzistance of god. With all the horrible things i have done to myself thou this period nothing really bad happend to me even thou I was really far from Jesus and this is my reason for my actions. I even started to doubt my faith for few minutes in this period for the first time in many years. You cannot make decisions I have made and live without Jesus help

joylitt

Bingo, You nailed it bullseye!

Majesteen Well some of us "choose to believe" as Elizabeth Shaw said. And sometimes that can save a person's life.

@IRaptus - 

  . . . the likelihood of us being here on an individual level is staggering!'

There's a story that the Buddha told people to get them to reflect on the preciousness and fortune of their birth.  I'll paraphrase it:

Basically, the odds of you being born and living here and now, as a human, are about the same as tossing a hoop (like a hula) into the middle of the ocean and having a turtle pop its head out the middle!

So pretty rare then ;) 

@BWW, JL and others - Re. Jesus.  Yes, indeed; one story from my youth (I wasn't raised Christian but come from a Christian culture) that I always liked is when he turned the tables over at the temple.  Such a simple yet powerful message.  

When you see how the rich abuse faith, power etc still today (the Catholic Church being very guilty of this) it makes me wonder how that story would play out in modern times . . .

Still, if we're here as a species in another 2000 years you will probably find that in that time there will have been enlightened mystics, wise sages and saints who lived out there lives with compassion, wisdom and grace.  For the most part they will be quiet and unassuming.  You'll probably also see that the vast majority still chase the phantom, illusory bubbles of power, wealth, fame, sex etc.

We're human, after all! :) Our blessing and our curse!

 @Majesteen - Not sure I fully understand your post but faith is no bad thing.  If it's a faith born from experience, understanding and inner courage then that is true faith to me.

Call it whatever you like but I believe if we have true faith, not blind faith, then we attract help and support and this helps drive our inner strength and power.

I mentioned above of earthly beings that our ancestors spoke of - be they fairies in Scotland, nature spirits in the Americas, angels or whatever:  I know I sound very silly here but they exist; or I'm completely insane - you judge, lol!  Perhaps you attracted some 'help' in your dark times?

Jesus is the light, no? :) 

Needless to say the abrahamic religions are scared spitless of this research.

@BWW - Aye, but they have no need to be, really.  Not if they are true believers and embody the wisdom of which they preach . . . ;)

Seriously though, all Abrahamic religions do teach reincarnation; they just don't call it that or understand it deeply enough (imo)!

Deep Space

Unfortunately, for them, they're not and they don't.
However, the reason the research scares them is it proves that Death is indeed NOT the End, merely a doorway as well as that passing through it to be a perfectly natural and normal event, and that religion and it's associated trappings of powermongering nonsense are not needed. ;)

GOOD point on the abrahamic religions!

Deep Space

Good points about the turning of tables and such!!

As for Faith, I've been through some extremely bad and harsh times in my life. I survived not becaise of faith in a 'higher power', but by learning to have faith in Myself.

If the higher powers want my attention, they must Earn such from me. I do not, will not be foolish enough to extend trust let alone faith to someone or thing of unproven value and intent.
Otherwise I am content to ignore them as irrelevant and continue on living in a manner that has worked out quite well for me.
If they exist, they must be terrified of people like me, as I do not need them...yet THEY seem to require worship and devotion...
Thus, it's the call of tune for people like myself. ;)

Blackwinter-witch - 

If the higher powers want my attention, they must Earn such from me. I do not, will not be foolish enough to extend trust let alone faith to someone or thing of unproven value and intent.

I hear that!  I think that mind set is what faith is really all about.  That said, I'm all for acknowledging and respecting any help we may get along the way; be that human or other :) 

Deep Space

It could well be, the mindset, I mean...it's possible, seems to employ the same cerebral mechanisms that someone covered in an earlier post...worth pondering at least!!

#Beyourownhigherpower

:D

As for help in bad times, well yeah, if it comes I'd not turn it down!! But I won't count on such unless/until it comes. I won't pray when I need to be busy saving myself or those I love.
And, if it's just my time to depart this world, well, the universe is just too big to argue with. :)

Blackwinter-witch - I think we were separated at birth, lol ;) 

It's very refreshing to hear views like yours.  I think you'd do the ancients proud!

(I hope that's taken as it's meant - a compliment to you and your heritage)

@ Joylitt - wow, what a thread you've started!  It just shows how real art can engage us on deeper and more profound topics.

Bravo to you and Sir Ridley!  

Deep Space

Thank-you for the compliment!! Very much appreciated! I extend the same in-kind in return! Like you, I do mean such as a compliment!

Ridley Scott, if not for him and cracking open some dusty doors, I think my writing career would still be trying to light it's engines.

He gave me a new way of looking at some of the BIG questions, and how to really consider the various and possibly shocking answers that might come.

Joylitt has indeed started a remarkable thread, and it's been quite satisfying reading the assorted viewpoints and thoughts on this overall topic!

I've never been part of a forum that has so many new comments and/ or threads when I wake up and check it in the morning. I also wish I had the time to write more on the forum too, but the season of life I am in just does not allow the time needed to flesh out ideas with you all.

With that said, it troubles me greatly that BBW and Deep Space have had some odd experiences when talking to religious people in the Christian branch. That fact a Vicar could not answer the basic question DS asked makes me wonder how in the hell did that person secure that position?

Now the threats of violence to BBW do not surprise me in some ways, but discussion to basic questions usually should be an opportunity, not a session of fisticuffs.

Most of my surprise has not been that but rather I've had many answer me with thoughtful responses and any readings from Augustine of Hippo, John Calvin, Martin Luther, Black Elk, Blaise Pascal, C.S. Lewis and G.K. Chesterton to name a few will give you plenty to ponder and a good base to understand Christianity. Geez, if you can read, just pick up a Bible and read it. I found it answered my questions no problem. I wouldn't say I liked all the answers, but I did receive them.

I cant imagine asking a Hindu what they believe and not receiving some kind of decent response.

BZ

Bubba Zanetti

Again, just to be sure you see it. I do apologize to you for my misunderstanding/misinter[retting that post of yours earlier.

YES, it IS a very active place!! Just enjoy the place, answer/post as you will if the mood strikes you and enjoy the like-minded company of fellow fans. :)

Just to say, anywhere you go in this world, any topic you discuss, there's always gonna be folks who think it best to try to shut-up those who question or challenge what they know by way of violence.
It's been my fate to encounter those, but such is life.
I will still question and challenge all those who seek to alter my mind and belief structure to suit their woldview.
What's always amazed me is that the more polite you try to be with such people, the more it seems to enrage them.

Nowadays, I just refuse to engage, aside from this thread, which has been a very pleasant and interesting conversation!! :)

@BZ - I do hope my comments aren't seen as overly critical of Christianity or similar faiths?

I honestly believe there is real wisdom to be found - if you're prepared to look for it . . .

My issue with most religions is the blind faith, narrow minded and controlling aspects that frankly, have no place in any spiritual doings.

I know that isn't always the case, mind!  I've met Buddhists that believe rubbing a statue gives them 'power' . . . pure tosh! :)

Yet, items can have power within them and I believe this can be transferred or used; however, only for those who approach them in the 'right' way . . .

I have a book (given to me by said Vicar's wife) that compares quotes and teachings from Jesus to those of the Buddha - hard to see the separation at times.

Wisdom is wisdom is wisdom - it may look different due to the time or culture it comes from but the message will be the same!