Resurgence
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 6:35 AMNow I know some of you will say; he did, but do we know when she died, some might point to the fact that her dog tags were hanging in the dreadnought as proof that she died before the bombing of the temple, but what wouldn't make sense then is why did the ship crash, and the ship doesn't have an auto pilot to our awareness and if it did why didn't the engineer use it in Prometheus when it would obviously be capable of evasive maneuvers and the crash would have nothing to do with fuel because regardless of the type of fuel it would still decay and since it had been on LV-223 for 2000 years, what I am saying is DAVID probably woke her up when they arrived at paradise and told her something that convinced her of the engineer's guilt as a species and they settled on the action they took, and the ship most likely had a ventilation system and seeing as how the black goo when we see it infecting the city it is airborne, so most likely since we also see the wind is entering the Dreadnought as DAVID's hair is waving as if there is wind, so the now airborne virus would most likely enter the ventilation and spread throughout and Dr. Shaw most likely was unfortunate enough to get infected and I believe the following scenario occurred so after two minutes she would begin feeling weak, dizzy, and tired, DAVID taking notice would get her into the med bay and the engineers probably had a form of life support, which DAVID would hook her up to, believing she can be saved knowing full well she is beyond recovery. Returning to the Pilot's chamber to possibly clear the ventilation system of the ship only to be interrupted by pained screams of Elizabeth as a Baby Neomorph bursts out of her stomach which begins eating her. DAVID then runs to check on Elizabeth to find her dead and the neomorph eating her, out of anger he kills the Neomorph and begins destroying the equipment once he has calmed down the ship then crashes DAVID then takes Dr. Shaw to the Engineer citadel to try and find some way to revive Dr. Shaw realizing that the body she has now is beyond repair so he begins work so that if she cannot live on that she at least be honored with what she couldn’t create he then returns to the dreadnought and grabs the remains of the neomorph and the ampules that didn’t deploy and returns, forgetting all about the dog tags that she had near her study space. When he gets back to the engineer citadel he begins researching the black goo believing that he can either use it to help Dr. Shaw live on in some manner or honor her, and finds that inside the black goo is DNA which he suspects is the DNA of the neomorph which he confirms and taking some DNA from Elizabeth and begins experimenting trying to create a life form to honor Elizabeth. If this doesn’t seem likely, I point to the fact that he spent time making a grave for her, and continuously take flowers to her grave. We even see him cry, and say “I Loved her, as much as you do Daniels.” now either he is a phenomenal actor or he actually cared which is supported by the way he speaks of her in the prologue footage "The Crossing" and the fact that when he finds the neomorph he tries to bond with it but when Oram kills it he gets pissed and takes him to the egg chamber but if he wanted to get a xenomorph the whole time he could have just taken one of the crew but he chose to save all of them and at the end he only brought two embryo's because of the fact that he didn't know lope had been facehugged and he didn't know how many people were part of the crew on the covenant and he began targeting them because he felt they had wronged him, because the way the way he acts is reminiscent of a child looking upon things he doesn't understand with curiosity like with the black goo in prometheus, and seeking approval and acceptance from either Weyland or the engineers in prometheus he had been denied left and right by everyone, looked down upon and cast aside, no one had respected him on the prometheus expedition, and no one trusted him from the covenant, that is why he brought only two facehugger embryos when he could have brought more and he knew there was 2000 colonists, if he wanted to he could have caused a lot more chaos if he wanted to but he didn't all he wanted was companionship someone who would look upon him with trust, love and respect. Keep that in mind when you rewatch Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
Tiwaz
MemberChestbursterMay-22-2017 6:52 AMI like this idea. Upvoted.
Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.
Resurgence
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 7:00 AMEdgy Name this might be how it happened you never know, we have no real evidence to suggest otherwise.
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
BioMechBeast
MemberOvomorphMay-22-2017 8:23 AMTotally agree with your thoughts. I honestly cant see David killing Shaw esp after everything he said in the "Crossing" video. A s for getting infected by the black goo, we dont know if she was still alive by this point in the film. Shaw is supposed to be in Awakening which is set before Covenant and she may have been injured/sacrificed herself then. Only time and the next movie will tell us. Fingers crossed.
Phallic Jaw
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 8:37 AMTL;DR. Maybe later.
Sorry I have no doubt he killed her. Hard to stomach, yes, but not totally implausible. He's insane.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.
Myrddin365
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 8:47 AMI think the cryo tube might have had unforeseen effects.
The tears in David's eyes when he drops those spores suggests to me that Shaw is not ok and the Engineers are the reason.
Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!
Resurgence
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 8:48 AMhe doesn't cry when he drops the ampules he cries when dropping flowers off at Dr. Shaw's grave
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
Anergy
MemberOvomorphMay-22-2017 8:50 AMDog tag was already hanging above her "desk" (when she was alive) in the Crossing prologue. David definitely didn't try to revive her, because her look was like she was morphing into a monster creature, not into human. She tried to send signal "take me home". She was definitely trying to escape David or that planet. But the ship crashed. Or it's David crashed the ship pretending it was accident. Because he knew that someone would find this planet one day
Resurgence
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 8:55 AMBut DAVID obviously would know how to turn it off so why wouldn't he, it's clearly habitable so given time it will be colonized, and how do we know she is "Morphing", have you seen some animal attacks they will leave the body close to if not unrecognizable, and I know her dog tags were hanging over her desk, I stated that
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
Resurgence
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 8:58 AMnot really, he looks to be in one of the most dangerous type of rage; a calm rage.
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
Phallic Jaw
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 9:07 AMClearly you saw a different movie, @Resurgence. Div'Ed clearly has tears in his eyes (AKA CRYING) before/while dropping the shit on the Engineeroids. In fact, he cries all over this movie.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.
Resurgence
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 9:10 AMno he didn't he only cried once
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
Cerulean Blue
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 9:15 AMI am still trying to understand why we are having to guess at David's reason to bomb the Humanoids on the planet? Hell, we all knew he was crazy from Prometheus, right?!?! I guess this is how they make us hope for another movie these days? MEH!!
John D.
MemberOvomorphMay-22-2017 9:39 AMIn the Yahoo! interview at the link below, Ridley Scott sums up David's motivation for destroying the engineers (scroll down to "Why did David destroy the Engineers?"
https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/ridley-scott-spills-spoileriffic-secrets-alien-covenant-140021937.html
Bubba Zanetti
MemberOvomorphMay-22-2017 9:48 AMAfter watching AC this weekend, I'm with Phallic on this one too. David totally smokes Shaw for his higher goals of "creation".
David is crying when he bombs the humanoids below. The camera zooms in and its pretty obvious.
Couple of takes here. If you know Milton's Paradise Lost, or read any theology, Satan both knows the full love of God and the full rejection of God. Its part of what drives his rage. Add to God's love for His creation, including humans and Satan has no way back to redemption in the manner we have afforded to us. He is forever cut off and has a bit of envy one might say as a result. I thought that point was played masterfully when David kisses Daniels. David so disparately wants to be human.
If that doesn't speak to you then read up on men who loved there wives, but now are sitting in prison for killing them. That nice 'we had two/three kids, house and careers' but the time had come to end her and keep her all to myself.
Lots of reading on that subject too.
BZ
MicroChanges
MemberOvomorphMay-22-2017 9:59 AMYou've got to remember, David told Daniels, that he is going to do to her what he did to Shaw.
colonialsoldier
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 9:59 AMDavid infected Shaw's boyfriend. I believe he was more than capable of deciding to kill Shaw. I do not think we have enough info to truly speculate as to her fate.
Michelle Johnston
MemberChestbursterMay-22-2017 10:16 AM@JohnD It is worth re reading that interview because it explains why Ridley has difficulty with verbal narrative threading.
If you consider "The Crossing" David finds out "their ways". This implies secret new information not revealed in Prometheus and it is never used to drive the plot. Instead we have a broad generalisation behind Davids antipathy. Frankly given his curiosity displayed in Prometheus he would give anything to come among them and discover their secrets unless he did discover something which frankly we the audience should know.
He also says he is left alone on the planet. Do we take it Shaw did not make it or was never woken and then casually speculates
"as a device (The pathogen) which he needed to combine and mix with human DNA, which is probably how he used Shaw – yikes.”
I am sorry but Elizabeths role pre eminent in Prometheus is worth more than a casual aside.
When I watched the Crossing I deducted that during the journey he did discover something and that Shaw died of her earlier infestation and these two emotional drivers, the larger and smaller, led to this show of rage by David.
Then left on the planet with the ghost of Elizabeth who never woke up he tried to "revive" her but as always the mutagen is not the life giving catalyser the Engineers stole and Shaw began to emanate secondary issues which David found compelled to pursue and in the madness of his programming to lead and create he sees his creations as coming from their mother "Shaw".
If this is not the reason, that David simply tricked Shaw into cryo sleep and then experimented on her body after they crashed (and why) then there is far to much investment in the notion he loved Shaw.
To summarise for me delusion is much more powerful than psychopathy and constant bait and twist flattens the emotional journey and as I have said elsewhere is dangerous for the follow up. "OH well he is mad anything goes". What we needed was a journey toward a soul Shelley's Frankenstein was nuanced the creature was conflicted and in Paradise Lost there is moral relativity in Covenant there is a bad robot except there's other stuff which is not explained.
Given Prometheus lacked focus in some of the key story points (not the ambiguity for the next film) and that Covenant has the same issues I am going to say that this is Ridleys problem.
If ADF's prequel novel Origins provides its own thought through logic on the period between P and C which is greater than joining up dots then I think we have our problem identified Ridley thinks the visual imagery and the physical plot outcome is enough.
Tiwaz
MemberChestbursterMay-22-2017 10:58 AMI wonder... When Shaw is lying on the workshop-table. Why the grave and why the flowers on it?
Edit: Or should I say "If Shaw is lying..."?
Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.
Resurgence
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 11:17 AMtiwaz exactly
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
Deep Space
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 11:27 AMre. the OP - I did think similar myself but it's so ambiguous in many ways that it's hard to be certain.
He said he killed her but given his mental state that could be due to guilt; as she may have died of other complications (black goo, Engineer retaliation etc) that he sees as ultimately being his fault, rather than a cold blooded attack. This could well have been pivotal in further messing with his programming leading to the emotionally confused yet dangerously motivated David we find in AC.
The film does lead us though to believe that he killed her simply to experiment on her and as MJ points out above, it's hard to tell if the reasons for this are intentionally vague or just errors on the part of RS.
Sadly, I think this may be the last we see of this plot line and it's looking more and more like the derelict & SJ will be David or crashed due to his meddlings.
I do hope not though and that we get a big plot surprise in the next film(s).
Jonesy
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 12:07 PMI think it's simply that David's love towards Shaw is never bigger than his desire to be the King. He is willing to sacrifice anything to reach his goal. Android is goal oriented.
Anergy
MemberOvomorphMay-22-2017 12:55 PMDavid is a robot without any real human feelings. He may tell funny stories about his love to a human. But that's an instruction. This is just the order 937, bring the organism, crew expendable
WilliamPotter
MemberOvomorphMay-22-2017 2:03 PMI disagree. Daniels asked him "What are you going to do to me" and he responded "the same thing I did to her" (meaning Shaw). This may not be a direct quote, but it evidences that David did something to Shaw. I think he was angered that he could not create, that he was subservient to those beneath him, and that Shaw, in some way rejected his confused affections.
Blackwinter-witch
MemberPraetorianMay-22-2017 2:31 PMALIEN: Covenant
aka:
The Planet of Dr. Moreau with classic genocidal AI theme.
I trust R. Scott.
I do NOT trust FOX and their damned meddling and futzing about.
IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING
Phallic Jaw
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 3:59 PM@Resurgence - Nope.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.
Resurgence
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 4:29 PMPhallic jaw nope what
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
Phallic Jaw
MemberFacehuggerMay-22-2017 5:36 PMNope to what you said last. You forgotten already? Lol
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.
