A Closer Look at the Bombing Sequence

'big things have small beginnings'

OK yeah...That Urn did look very sealed but, maybe those worms can bore their way in, using some kind of acid. I'm gonna have to do some theorizing on how the worms got into the urns.

lol ok but remember ur 3 laws bud especially number 2, evidence lol

Exactly, that's why I'm not so solid on this theory, but it still has a lot going for it. Just not everything is totally clear to me about what's happening here. *Watches again*. Worms are seen on the ground....then wiggling in what looks like sealed urns that have melted at the top. Wow...it's almost impossible to tell what is happening. I've seen this part so many times but..I can't make full sense of it. All I can think is...they burrowed in somehow....but how I don't know.

this mean ur for a Prometheus all nighter? hahaha batter in yogi mate I like ur determination hahaha

I've been on a Prometheus all decader. I've been thinking about this shit constantly since 2012 lol. I want to tie Ridley Scott up with chains, hold a blow torch to his man sack, and tell him to explain all of this stuff 100% clearly as I take notes, or his nuts get grilled slowly.

pmsl and write it down, put it in a movie so the rest of us can have it all make sense

Let's crowd fund a remake of Prometheus and Covenant with a much better director, where everything is fully spelled out with on screen notes, so we can all sleep at night and never fight. Seriously though I think these little mysteries in these movies are really annoying and pointless. Why do we need little mysteries that are there for no reason at all? Why is it a mystery about how those worms are in the goo? Why does it need to be hard to work out these things? The mystery in the original Alien...was an ultimate mystery eg. The entire thing was one big mystery, where did the derelict ship come from? What was that Jockey? What was the Alien? Where was it all from? Now we know most of the big answers...but we have small pointless mysteries to fight over like "Are the motes insects or not?" WHY ISN'T IT 100% CLEAR? FOR EVERYONE GYAHH. I quit.

hahahaha maybe once the series finished everything will go 'click' into place n wel all gather in a big open field and do one of those running slow mo running things and embrace????

but all these questions was the whole reason for RS returning in the first place. think hes gotten lost a bit

@Yog Sothoth

I see you are leaning towards only what the Movies show as Canon, which i think is the right way but its a way that leads to confusion... the other drafts and concept works all help to try and make sense of the mess we see on screen.

FOX come up with these Files in a attempt to show us what they had now intended but to me they contradict things a bit, but this is just a personal view by me.

The movies are a bit ambiguous and so everyone will see things a bit differently and we cant really come to any 100% Bullet Proof Theory or Answer.... apart from taking the Files FOX release and David Narration at Face Value.

The Eyeworm does not look like a Hammerpede, in part it does but if you watch Prometheus it appears to have something like tentacles or something at the top, but then it could be showing more than one worm.  But its so quick that its hard to make 100% out.

The ambiguity with the movie means we can speculate a lot of things, for instance if the Top of the Glass Vials contains small worm like Organisms or some other Parasite that grow into the Eye-Worms that then grown into those worms on LV-223

The only way the Eye-Worm is a Hammerpede is if the Black Goo is in effect Hammerpedes, Holloway was only exposed to the Ampoule/Glass Vial Contents of the Urns.

The Worms in Prometheus looked different, but then we get TWO different looking to a degree Worms if we consider the "our first Alien" deleted Scene.

Regarding the Urns Melting.... indeed we get the one shot of something moving on the one Urn...  but in other shot we see the Top of the Urn Appears to be Melting like it was like a WAX material.

I can only assume there is a component/process inside that reacts with the outer casing under certain circumstances that causes the Tops of the Urns to Melt Away.

And in Alien Covenant something happens to the Urns during the Arming and dropping of those Urns that completely destroys the Urn outer Casing causing them to explode.

Ha Ha

Indeed Yog Sothoth a more Spoon Fed and Spelt out A-Z would have prevented such debates and such... but then i think the Beauty of Prometheus was its ambiguity, because if the movie was more Spoon Fed etc.. we would not be debating such things over many years on sites like this.

This is the One Come Back that Lindeloff has used in the past when defending his work on Prometheus due to its unanswered and half answered questions... he said that the ambiguity he did has led to many places debating the movie over and over and so he is proud of this.

Lindeloff also did say however that Prometheus has enough answers there, its just they are hard to find  and so take investment of time looking over and over the movie to try and make such theories up.

Every new piece of concept/draft or deleted Scene for Prometheus and Alien Covenant does allow us to go back to Prometheus and then look at the clues over and over again due to the new information and clues we are given after Prometheus came out

I really hope once the Prequels are done... that in time people would got and study and watch Prometheus more and then become more interested in what it was trying to show.

Adding little mysteries is childish and annoying, I hate it. It doesn't help the plot, the atmosphere or anything. It's just fuel for logic and canon geeks like us to fight over for years. The average viewer is just going to shrug and not understand it. The mystery in Alien worked, was well placed and had a reason. The mystery in these prequels is pointless, as they are meant to be explaining things, and they do explain things, but leave these little puzzles of maddening pointlessness. You work out a solution to a mystery and what does it give you? *Oh ...the motes are tiny insects afterall*..and..*So that's exactly how David made the Xenomorph*....and.....*So that's why Milburn stroked the hammerpede*....  WOW THAT'S CHANGED MY WORLDVIEW. Ridley Scott is finished after this. Someone put him in an old people's home please. We don't need a group hug, we are arguing because Ridley Scott is now a crap director. Sadly.

Interesting thread.

I think I can help with the worm thing. In one of the DVD commentaries Scott or one of the guys who wrote Prometheus says something about the black ooz making them grow from the smaller worms into the larger hammerpede worm. We had some big arguments over on the RPF years ago about that one. There is also a scene of the small worms swimming in the goo in the movie.

I don't know if that has anything to do with the eye worm, but it is definitely said that the small worm and large hammerpede are one and the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVgVB3qsySQ

Yog Sothoth 

 I want to tie Ridley Scott up with chains, hold a blow torch to his man sack, and tell him to explain all of this stuff 100% clearly as I take notes, or his nuts get grilled slowly.

lol, Id pay to see that as a movie :P

However I imagine this would be his response.

David turns out to be an android Wizard...and he just "did it". Solved.

Tidy solution, I like it. David would make a good android-wizard lol :)

@Yog Sothoth

I can fully understand why some may want a more simple kind of movie, a more direct connection to ALIEN and not touching on the Philosophical Themes, Creation Themes and whole David Arc as well as the ambiguity.

For some this stuff is great.... for many its one of the reasons people just could not Understand Prometheus, its a movie that is not straight forward if you only see it a few times or with a narrow view....  its a movie that requires more viewings and taking into account all sorts of extras and other pieces of clues and information like Viral Sites to make better sense.

Sadly not every person will invest all that effort to just maybe make the movies plot something they can better understand.

This whole Plot/Angle and Objective/Theme of Prometheus is something different to the Straight up more Spoon Fed Elements of the Alien Franchise and its Alien Horror => Alien Action => Alien Horror = Alien Action kind of route.

Prometheus was different because they decided to give us something different that opens up a way to explore something more than just HOW/WHY/WHEN and WHERE the Xenomorph was created etc.  Hence Prometheus was Born out of what was Alien Engineers which was pretty much more in line with Alien movies.

so it was a Persudo Prequel of sorts yet ALIEN/ALIENS Fans in General expected more of a Prequel... the Space Jockey Mystery was to be explored but it appears the Franchise Fans are more concerned with he Xenomorph.

And so indeed Prometheus and its themes and ambiguity did not cater to the expectations of kind of flick that a lot of the Franchise Fans expected... and then if we take the General Public then with these a higher % would also not get into or understand or invest seeing a movie like Prometheus, if they dont get it after 1-2 viewings they are not likely to do some Homework and look at all other Material and then come back to Prometheus and see if they can grasp it better.

I think Alien Covenant will make some fans go and see Prometheus again or for the first time...

But i think the aim from now on will not be about the Black Goo, it will now be about those Face Huggers and how they can lead to Thousands of Xenomorph Eggs in the more simplest and straightforwards way.

I am concerned this route would be a Face Hugger + Daniels = Egg Laying or Egg Morphing Xenomorph.

"Adding little mysteries is childish and annoying"

Little mysteries like what the hell are all those eggs in the Derelict about? Or where the hell did this monster come from?

I live for mysteries like these. Especially when you get some really cool answers followed up by further mysteries.

Dude, those mysteries were BIG mysteries and part of the first movie. Alien was one big mystery with nothing explained. Now with Covenant, we have most of the big questions explained...but we have little tiny artificial mysteries woven in for no reason at all..that even if we solve..add nothing to the overall storyline. It's just ....pointless. If they are going to explain things..AT LEAST explain the little things...and leave the big mysteries if you need to have mystery.

I also agree that "ambiguity" is a very good thing, but with this caveat... it must be handled and executed in a proper way.

Take some of Stanley Kubrick films for example. Most of his films are so well thought out, and so well crafted that ambiguity actually enhances and enriches them.

You can say the same thing about the original "ALIEN" film too, and many people have. The overall quality of the ALIEN movie, and the mysteries it introduced... created a franchise, and a whole other world... like Star Wars did.

But the sad facts are that Prometheus and AC have just not lived up to the same standards as those other examples. Ridley Scott has not taken the necessary care and/or time to really flesh out the stories and provide a thorough and concise storyline. And the films have suffered for it.

I just hope that he has some sort of master plan for all of this, and that he can tie everything together in a satisfactory way when it's all said and done.

@Yog, I strongly disagree. We know diddly-squat about the Engineer civilisation, where they came from, how many strands of society they have, who engineered them, where the goo came from... These are all big questions.

@ hox

Nah dude, you are just drawing bigger circles. We now know what spawned the xenomorphs. It was black goo, made by the engineers, which David infected Shaw with, then mixed her eggs with neomorph DNA. Neomorphs who's life cycle also originated from black goo. We now know the engineers are god-like super tech beings, who either started evolution on Earth or interfered with it at various points by adding their own DNA. The big questions of Alien have now been answered. What mysteries we have left in Prometheus and Covenent are little points of canon only, which add nothing to the full picture or depth of story. I enjoy working out these things cuz I'm a geek who likes to know it all, but my point is...these little things should not be mysteries. Please don't make a bigger circle argument by saying "oh well ultimately everything is a mystery..is there a God?" That's disingenuous.

@Thombach - You are correct. It was Damon Lindelof who explained the Hammerpede origin on the Prometheus commentary.

"When this goop, as a result of being exposed to the atmosphere when they unseal it (the ampule room) interacts with these worms, those worms grow into much larger and nastier worms that have the capability of infecting the humans who come in contact with them - Milburn and Fifield."

Basically, just douse the animal in that form of the pathogen and it mutates. Same thing was happening to Fifield.

Oh OK @ Kethol. I retract my previous theory about hammerpedes coming from worm eggs. That is good evidence...I'm just still trying to work out what that thing was in Holloway's eye. I had a theory that it might be a baby hammerpede. But obviously that can't be the case. Maybe it was a tiny trilobite, before it left him during sex?

Interesting how Lindelof says "infecting". Obviously that hammerpede was trying to have sex with Milburn (when it went in his mouth), and implant it's version of trilobite in him. Who knows if it was successful, cuz Milburn died anyway.

@Yog, the Engineer universe is expansive, and it's barely been touched upon. Perhaps you're not a fan of history. Call that a circle if you like, but it's a circle I want to see explored in much more detail. A civilisation that spans the entire galaxy can get up to a lot of interesting stuff, with a lot of interesting history. I'd like to know more. Before even starting with...

God means different things to different people. The ancient alien civilisations in Contact made use of technology developed by a race long since gone. Likewise, we have no idea who engineered the Engineers. I'd like to know. What else did they get up to? Did they face evolutionary warfare, like most forms of life? Did they look like elephants, inspiring mimicry in their creations' reverence? Did the Engineers find the original goo in a green crystal, and if so who put it there and why? There are endless big questions and possibilities.

@ Hox

Well by that argument....every film you watch is a mystery..because most films include humans...humans were formed by evolution...but we don't know exactly how life started. And we don't know what caused the "Big bang" which started the universe we all live in. Every story is a huge mystery....wow.

I think the mysteries that were presented in the original Alien movie have now been solved. Of course you can keep asking an infinity of questions behind those questions. But that will take forever to explain lol.

@Kethol

Thanks. I knew it was in the commentary. So the goo can mutate humans and animals into larger and more dangerous versions, or infect them with an embryo that grows into an insect or neo-xeno thing. But it can also infect and form shapes on its own, as you shows in the screen caps of the bombing?

Thombach, this is how John Logan described the mote-insects in the leaked Alien: Covenant script.

"And we focus on one of the INSECTS hovering near him...
MACRO VIEW: It’s watchful, careful. It settles near Ledward’s ear, and then enters the ear canal... the soft pink flesh... quickly
attaches itself -- a feeding tube plunging into his flesh--"

"She gently bats at a cloud of INSECTS in front of her face. A haze of little mote-like MIDGES in the dappled sunlight. And we see one of the insects--
MACRO VIEW: Ever-changing in its form -- lurching and stabbing into new shapes -- oily black but beautiful ... It hovers, has intelligence."

Saying "ever changing in it's form" and into new shapes sounds like the original idea may have been to have individual particles of the black liquid form into a flying shape to make itself mobile in air. Another part of the script indicates the actual insect version came later, after the bombing.

The black fluid forms into hooked and curved spike-like tendril shapes when it erupts out the the Engineers in the bombing sequence, so I suppose they kept some of that shape-change aspect in the movie.

 @ Kethol

There you go again, inventing canon with no evidence. Where did anyone say that the black goo forms into creatures directly? Show me the source for your argument. The motes are not black goo! They are insect-like spores from mutated fungus. Macro view means zoomed out view. Zoomed out, those little midges look like a black blob, always changing it's shape. Please understand what you are reading. Also where do you get the idea that it's the black goo bursting out of the engineers? I see those as parasites which were quickly formed within them, as part of their rapid black goo mutations. You really can't admit to being wrong can you?