AVP Galaxy slams Ridley Scott in their latest podscast

I agree with them.

They can use the Xeno but don't overexpose it, leave it in the background. When we saw the alien in daylight it felt like "meh".

He might have good visuals but he can't write a story it seems to me. This is just how I look at it.

They should have expanded the story with the Engineers instead of the artificial intelligence but they bombed the Engineers out of the picture in AC. Killing the Engineers was very disappointing especially when the human characters are not thought out so we get a boring robot movie.

What really bothers me is that he sacrifices the Xenos, the Engineers, and the humans to focus on AI. AI is the thing that I find the least interesting of it all, it is just bad. Keep that sh-- to another movie.

I probably won't bother to watch AC again, just like Ali81 said. It just becomes a movie about a mad robot going berserk which is a failure. Sure you can describe it to be about sub-creation but keep that to another franchise. Trying that within the frames of the Alien franchise and you get a disappointing movie if you don't really try to get good characters which they didn't manage to do.

An alien movie isn't just a movie with a dangerous monster killing people. They said something like that and I agree, you got to make it in a way that seems natural and that you can see their fear and sympathize with the person that is about to be killed. This is because they have messed up the characters.

28 Days Later is a movie that I really like, how about having that guy directing an alien movie? The director to that movie is named Danny Boyle and the writer is Alex Garland.

Fincher directed Alien 3 and the movie Zodiac. Zodiac was alright but the characters could have been more interesting but they fit for a movie like that but maybe not for an alien movie. The atmosphere/feeling about the Zodiac fit with the kind of movie that they were trying to make it seems to me.

"Maybe it would be about characters dealing with it since we know what the Alien is about."

Absolutely yes, that has been lacking since AR and they still haven't gotten it right.

"(Scott and company seem to focus on plot over characters and have a lot of big themes and questions to cover. No room for emotion)" - Cuponator3000

You seem to be correct on that, I don't care for the plot or themes if I can't get interested in the characters. The movie won't work for me if  there is no one to support but I am not sure if Scott understands this.

BigDave The fact that a replica of the xenomorph was in Disneyworld does not make it less scary to me and to the vast majority. RS decreed that, because that is what he "wishes to believe". And the reason why Jason, Freddy and Michael Myers are not scary is because their latest movies were bad or comedic. But if you re-watch the older movies (and that includes Alien), you can feel scared all over again. I have watched a compilation of scary scenes from "Alien Isolation" and even with the limitations of a video game, it is much creepier and scarier than AC. In Covenant there is simply no love for the genre. My theory is that Ridley Scott just grew out of the sci-fi/horror genre like someone who grows out of videogames.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXURiaXG1l4&t=301s

Indeed, thats Hit the Nail on the head....

The point i was trying to raise, in that its how you portray and use the MONSTER/MONSTERS some of those Franchises did Cook their respective Monsters, in a Cash Cow Grab on exploiting the over done Franchise.  The Alien Universe to a degree did this with AR and with the AVP movies.

The damage could be undone if done right, but AC did not use the Xenomorph well enough, IF David is still to be the Creator of the Xenomorph, then David's Creations must Evolve a bit and end up in their THOUSANDS on a Engineer Ship, that happens to end up No Where Near Origae-6 and so the Xenomorph has to be covered, its a case of how many movies will Span Until we get to the Derelict?

Then they need to be careful HOW, WHEN and WHY they exploit the Xenomorph, as over cooking it could do it more damage, if its done right it can Salvage back its reputation.

Listening to 45 minutes, i think AVPGalaxy Hicks had some good points, it appears the other TWO guys would rather had gone and seen a Blomkamps bring back Xeno Queens and Ripley kind of flick.

Continuing with my first point in this post...   its a case of doing something different, which Prometheus had attempted and AC basically thrown all that under the Carpet.  Its hard to do something fresh with a Franchise Monsters, when they have appeared in 5 or more movies.

Which is why RS was right with the beast was cooked, there is only so much Eggs, Face Huggers, Xenomorphs and Queens you can do, and returning to ONE/TWO Monsters could work for the Alien Franchise, its just they was not handled well in AC.

When Franchises run out of steam, they attempt to sometimes Reboot it, but this sometimes does not go down to well, look at the Remake of Nightmare on Elm Street, which gave Freddy a more sinister back story, it was trying something a bit different, but still it did not go down to well and now they are planning a remake of A Nightmare on Elm Street parts 3 on wards? or 4 on wards?   All this is doing is the same as Blomkamps Alien 5 was doing.

The 2010 A Nightmare on Elm Street was trying something different, but alas it will never get a sequel, but then i it did all it could do is make a more darker version of the Old Franchise, much like the NEW IT movie attempted.

Maybe a Prequel to Nightmare on Elm Street would be something more Fresh, to cover what made Frederick Charles "Freddy" Krueger become who he became... be it they Prequel the 2010 Movie or 1984 one.

Another point to consider, is when a Franchise Monster gets over exploited then you had to try something different, and a ALIEN Franchise about Xenomorphs and Queens, and more Xenos and Queens would grow tiresome.

You only have to look at the WALKING DEAD to see how to use a Franchise, Characters are done great but this is what you have when you have TV Series and not restricted to a 90-120 minute movie. But what Walking Dead did so well was give us Plots that made the ZOMBIE Franchise actually not center around the Zombies at all.. it was for the first few seasons, then they knew continuing about the Humans vs Zombies would soon get OVERCOOKED

So its Plots like the Saviors that helped to make the Franchise more interesting than the Zombie done to death Trope...

I think this is what RS is trying to bring to the Alien Franchise, i dont think he wants to take out the Xenomorph, but he wants to explore other themes where the Xenomorph plays a distant role.

This is where RS and the 3-4 incoming Parties comes in

Likely means we have

1) The Colony that gets set up...

2) Incoming Weyland-Yutani Ship (as they know what Davids has done)

3) David and his Creations

4) The Engineers

I disagree, I loved Alien Covenant. I loved it's references to Milton's Paradise Lost and Frankenstein, very Gothic.  Ridley did a great job. Last thing we need is another "Shoot 'em up, shop 'em out" Alien movie..

Indeed and the Sad thing is if FOX had not maybe got RS to change direction and go for a more Prequel to Alien and introduce the Xenomorph, it would appear the movie and sequel would have touched more on those Paradise Lost and Frankenstein, what we mainly got was a aftermath of them.

I think the Podcast does kind of be harsh to RS, without really taking note that FOX actually had a larger say in what we ended up with, and it appears the Podcast geared more to a Aliens kind of Remake.. sort of flick, apart from Hicks he did seem to had been interested in where RS was taking this, prior to pressure from FOX no doubt.

I think when we look at RS comments its easy to see what he was on about, first he did talk about the Beast Being cooked, then he talked about how the Franchise has to be about HIM (the beast) and it can evolve HIM in different ways,  he also said that he felt the Beast (Xenomorph) could go a few more rounds.

But then after AC we have him bringing up the beast is cooked, he was right and ahead of the game, and when you add this to his comments even during the Marketing for AC, when he said "they want Aliens, i'll give them $"%£$^ Aliens"

I think RS felt the Xenomorph was only a small part of the overall wider Universe, it essentially is a By-Product of the Bio-Weapon Black Goo, and i think RS felt you never had to Spoon Feed how the Xemorph is connected or how it came about and when.... He felt the Franchise had other things to cover.

We saw the Xenomorph over and over....  yes the Prequels was to answer the Questions, but FOX felt actually lets tone down these and not give much away.  Thus we got Prometheus.  While it was never Spoon Fed, it tried to keep Mystery we could clearly.. well ish lol

*The Xenomorph was a Engineered Bio-Weapon or a Outcome of the Bio-Weapon (Black Goo)

*The Xenomorphs creation is connected to the Black Goo and LV-223

*There is a missing link between the Black Goo, Xenomorph and Deacon but they wanted to keep the Xenomorph Origins a bit of Mystery.

And so RS had other Big Plans, but having to Shoe-horn the Franchise to Alien and Bring back the Xenomorph and how it was created and by who, with the limited Run Time, meant a lot of Sacrifices had to be made, and elements that would have been explored in Prometheus 2 had to be brushed under the carpet, but covered in small detail as a After-Math (Engineers and Dr Shaw).

So they have put themselves in a corner with where the Plot can Progress now, especially regarding how Davids TWO Face Huggers will leads to THOUSANDS of Eggs on the Derelict.  I just think its harder now to try and delve a bit too much into the Engineers again with  the set up....

Going to be Davids Agenda and the Companies that will take the Forefront.

A lot of Back Lash has gone to RS, and so we have to wonder will FOX replace him, or at least Curb some of his ideas and CHANGE things to please the Fans, but surely we cant have more U-Turns thrown at us again.

I cannot care less about AVP, their posts or pocasts.

the point made in the podcast is well founded. for Ridley to claim the beast is cooked smells of lack of imagination where its concerned as a video game got it bang on. if a video game can do it, following pretty much a path that has already been done, why cant a man of the talent such as Ridley not be able to unless he has no passion for it or doesn't know what to do with it?

In the beginning AVP was very supportive to Ridley Scott, in the same way this forum and the youtube channels were. But everybody's patience wore thin as Ridley Scott continues to fail to convince us with his statements that there is anything exciting in the horizon for the Alien franchise. For a change, I wish he would be talking about the genre and the tone and the human factor in his next project, those are the things he needs to work on.

he cant make films whos timeline r within the alien franchise an expect to write out or ignore the beast. before he even started Prometheus he should have distanced himself from the beast if that was his intent farther down the road. he could have said he was exploring the influence of A.I and the company within the franchise rather than what he did say. hes out of touch with the franchise and doesn't understand what makes the fans watch the movies over and over again. I said ages ago on here when people were discussing who should replace him and id love to see Del Toro have a crack. a fresh mind and eye is what is needed now I believe.

@ali81

A thing to remember is FOX are the ones in charge, if they decide the Predators made the Engineers, and RS was not happy with this, he has to run with what they suggest or FOX would simply get someone else to do it.

Ridley Scott did not intend the route that AC had taken, he was not going to spoon feed the Xenomorph and Shoe-horn it literally and chronologically in a sequel. The Problem was not because AC had the Xenormorph it was simply how it was handled.   But then we have the rumors RS deliberately handled the Beast Wrong on Purpose to Prove a Point... which i dont buy at all.

The Alien Games have also not been spectacular, the AVP games were ok especially the 2001 sequel version.

But indeed Alien Isolation worked, because of how it handled the Xenomorph, for the most part it was a unarmed Human vs the Xenomorph,  outmatched and so its the up against impossible odds that gave us the Peril also the Game benefited more because it places the Player in POV.    As a Movie it would not have worked as well, for example if you never saw the Game and just Watched somebody play it to completion indeed its a good experience but you never quite get the Horror as you do when playing it.

But the point is valid.... If AC never had Neomorphs, and one of the Crew was infected by a Xenomorph and so we had more time  seeing the Humans get picked off by ONE Xenomorph and then it ended by us finding out another Chest Busted on the Ship, que set up for a sequel.. it may have worked better.

The more you show the Xenomorph the less effect it has, if someone had made Alien Isolation where 50% in you pick up some Guns, are accompanied by a Marine and then take on and kill ALIENS Style another 20 Xenomorphs in the Game so 50% of the way through it became more Aliens Colonial Marines then it would have cooked the Xenomorph a bit.

Why they have a very tough task ahead as their is life in the Xenomorph but it has to be handled extremely well otherwise it will loose much more credibility, the same goes for the Engineers when we look at how their credibility diminished with AC too.

Ridley Scott said the xenomorph is cooked even before Prometheus and he probably used the Deacon to make Fox and some fans happy. A lot of Alien fans did not mind the lack of xenomorphs in Prometheus and cried foul when Ridley gave in to fanboys/Fox pressure and featured the xenomorph again in Alien Covenant. But there is nothing fresh to be added to the xenomorph. Every decent director knows it. Only if you want a video game style movie featuring a lot of xenos it does not mean that it would be a good movie. Ask for a new game better, so you can be alone with the beast, and let Ridley Scott finish what he started. The alien is a weapon, a parasite, I don't really want its origin explained further because it would kill its charm for good. I don't want to dissect the SJ either, it's better to leave it a mystery.

If there are many stories left to tell in the alien universe it is because Ridley Scott and only Ridley Scott expanded this universe, after he created it. 

The beast is cooked but if you want to reheat it and eat it again and again with a bag of popcorn, well, it's your option. Disney will give you another AVP and Aliens sequels, even Alien vs. Wonder Woman/Superman/Spiderman.

Isn't that what you're looking for? 

I think in Hindsight, maybe the way they covered the whole SJ and Xenomorph, was not the best, and maybe it needed to be a Mystery.

But RS lost control on how to evolve the Franchise after Alien, he had in the 90's a idea of how he would have a tackled a Prequel and Sequels (to Alien) but FOX went ahead with Alien R and then AVP.    So RS was very interested in Answering those Questions from Alien in a way he could have control over, because he would have known if they did not do a Prequel and Answer who the Space Jockey, was his purpose and Agenda, and where the Cargo Came from etc...

RS knows that there is a change in future FOX would indeed explore these at some point and RS would not like it if those Questions are Answered in ways that would make Ridley Scott Turn in his Grave.

Some Fans would want to keep it a Mystery still, some Fans want the Answers.... i feel that down the line someone will in the future Directly Answer that Mystery be it in 5, 10, 15 or 20 years and so RS is like they may as well do it now.

Big Dave:

I agree that AC didn't use the Xeno in a good way but I bet that it is because Scott isn't interested in it. AR and AVP were mistakes if you ask me, they didn't have to be made it was more like Fox wanted some money so they made some alien movies that unfortunately had low quality.

To me if they get the feeling of disaster and fear right then they don't need the Xeno that much. Xenos were not there when they cut the power in Aliens (they were not seen but implied, I think that works better), and you did not see it that much in Alien 3 and it was not seen that much in Alien either. Yes they were shown more in Aliens and AR but that don't make them better movies compared to Alien and Alien 3. Prometheus didn't lack because of no Xenos but from other problems. My point is that you don't need to show it or use it that much but it can be effective still but new monsters could be interesting also if you make the Engineers more threatening (which I hope that they do).

AC could have used the Xeno better but that was far from my biggest problem with it. I probably liked the Neomorph better since it was new and I also liked the ideas of the spores and the goo because of the same reason. Having cool monsters is far from the most important thing to me.

“... its a case of how many movies will Span Until we get to the Derelict?”

Yeah I have thought about this also. What if the next movie will be as bad as AC financially and in quality? Would we get a final Alien movie then?

As far as how to use the Alien, that is why there needs to be a plan. Hopefully there are some people that are smart enough that have discussions about this at Fox. There got to be some people that think about this other than at message boards, hopefully.

Hopefully they will change it since they should by now know that many people don't like the idea of David as the Xeno creator. If they will do many Xenos movies there is a risk that it will be given a worse reputation than it has gotten from the movies from AR until now. There is a thin line between familiarity and trying something new unfortunately they have stepped on the wrong side of the line this far with the prequels.

Sometimes I listen to the podcast by AVPgalaxy, some of them are interesting. There are people in the podcasts that seem to be supporters of the Blomkamp movie, I am not that interested in it but if they are then fine for them I guess.

Trying something new can be good, it depends on how you do it but I don't like when you throw the characters away for the plot alone, that is boring. I didn't mind the number of monsters in AC since my issues was with other things. Remakes, I am not that interested in it so it is better to try something else.
To explain Freddy Krueger and why he became what he did, doesn't that threaten to make it less of a threat like maybe Prometheus and AC did? Some things are better left the way they are because then you can keep on making your own explanations which is what horror movies do when they work .

You can do many Zombie movies but those movies are usually not about the Zombies per see but rather about other themes (like the consumerism in Dawn of the Dead and so on). I like that even if not every scene is filled with gore. The characters and the message is what is of interest to me when I watch Zombie movies but this also goes for the Alien movies.

4 parties, I am interested in them all except for David. Hopefully they will get the Engineers right and I am also interested to see what kind of characters that will be at the colony ship. The part about WY could be interesting, it depends on how they are portrayed. Maybe there are people there that work for the company that realize that they have been deceived by the company and start to rebel. Perhaps this could lead to some fight scenes between different sides of the WY company and ex-employees? I don't know I just try to imagine where things could potentially be going. Unfortunately we have been let down too many times now so I expect a movie that is average at best but we will see.

As far as the podcast being too harsh on Scott, maybe but he didn't help that much by focusing on David so he is partially to blame but I bet that Fox is also a part of what went wrong.

“They want aliens...”

Who are they? Fox or the audience? Perhaps it could be both.

In this context then yeah the Xeno might just be a part of a bigger world but I would rather have a movie where the monster has a bigger role even though it is not seen that much rather than a movie about artificial intelligence. To me Xenos and their connection to the Engineers are more interesting than AI. Hopefully we will see a bit more of that connection in the next movie.

My problems with Prometheus is largely with the characters but the Engineers were interesting (although they were not very well explained) and I liked the new monsters although the Hammerpedes could have been better. The environments looked good also.

“... elements that would have been explored in Prometheus 2 had to be brushed under the carpet, but covered in small detail as a After-Math (Engineers and Dr Shaw).”

At least we got less of Shaw so that was good but I wish that we could have seen more of the Engineers. Maybe they can get them into the movie in some way. Perhaps they don't need to make up the whole movie but they can at least be expanded upon. I would rather see more of then than of David.

I don't really understand how two eggs can lead to thousands of them if they don't go for some cloning or what ever they will use to explain it. Maybe if he re-created the egg than maybe it is some Engineer that we see in the derelict in some way? This would make more sense than if it would be David in the chair.

If they will remove some of the most stupid ideas that Scott has (like expanding the role of David) then maybe it would be a better movie? Hopefully they will rein in over Scott's most boring ideas.

“Going to be Davids Agenda and the Companies that will take the Forefront.”

The companies could be interesting if that will be done well, the android part just seems boring. Like I said, I am expecting the worst and I will be pleasantly surprised if it won't end up like a snoozefest.

“A lot of Back Lash has gone to RS, and so we have to wonder will FOX replace him, or at least Curb some of his ideas and CHANGE things to please the Fans, but surely we cant have more U-Turns thrown at us again.”

If that means less David and AI and better focus on human characters then I am all for it.

my top directing choices would be danny boyle, quinten tarintino and david finches for a second shot at alien although I dout he would take the offer.

"Yeah I have thought about this also. What if the next movie will be as bad as AC financially and in quality? Would we get a final Alien movie then?"

This is the Problem they now FACE, they have to cover enough to allow for us to have enough clues to suggest what happened in ALIEN, should the next movie be a failure, because FOX are not ones to be throwing money away, if the Next Movie is more of a Disaster and displeases Alien Fans more than Alien Covenant did, then i am not sure FOX would bank-role a 3rd movie that would attempt to Tidy up the Mess and Shoe-horn the Derelict into it.

Disney... however have plenty of money to do so, and i feel they would be ones willing to bring back what Fans feel is needed in the Universe... but this could mean a Blomkamp Alien 5 type movie.