Ridley Scott on the problem with Sci-fi

@ BigDave

Earlier you mentioned that AVP and AC are relatively small sites. The polls on AVP are large enough to be a relevant sample of the profile of the type of people that frequent that site. What is skewed is the echo chamber nature of a site like that or this. However if you want to know what the average deep fan thinks its a worthwhile sample.

This brings me to my next point most fan sites of any nature tend to focus their attention on the minutiae regarding the story. "Is this a Space Jockey head" is a perfect example.

The big issues for the prequels are

1) You need a coherent and thought through mythos and how the derelict and Space Jockey fit in to it. So that when we come across Xenomorph Iconography we understand how the original fits with it. The original film has been reinterpreted since it was filmed and what was going on changed during production. You need to put a stop to that if you want the wider audience to be captured by the story whereas its only got worse since these prequels started.You do not have to spoon feed the story and you can leave mystery but leave a coherent idea of what it represented.     

2) Thoughts and Dreams is spot on, as well as story you need characters you buy into. One of the issues with both prequels is there are to many co leads and not enough focus. The two in the shower barely exist, we had not got Rosenthal before she died. We had four couples involved in grieving cycles, think of any other character centred story where that happens .. it doesn't and thats before you bring in the David/Shaw dynamic which was far more interesting than anything we saw on screen. 

Clear mythos, coherent "new" story and engagement with a small number of characters so you can then engage the public with the big ideas of creationism meddling and A. I. You can rely on Ridley to get the visuals right. Its that simple but fan sites get lost in arcane arguments where people are not seeing the wood for the trees and fan sites are valuable for telling you about deep fans views but not the wider public and the best poll there is attendance and sell through numbers.  

Michelle Johnston "David/Shaw dynamic which was far more interesting than anything we saw on screen". That is true for only a few people, as the I impression I get from reading YT comments is that many more consider David from Covenant the best villain in ages (not a mish-mash of other characters). I don't think that even the writers cared about Shaw, sincerely no character was loved enough to give any meaning behind them.

@Michelle, Ignorantguy and Thoughts_Dreams

Hitting the Nail on the head with those comments.... a Problem has been they had a SET Vision, but then must have felt this Direction was a distraction from the MAIN Focus.... the WHY/WHEN/HOW of the Xenomorph Creation/Origins.  And so the Plot to Expand and Explore something NEW and Steer Away from ALIEN was replaced by now giving Fans a set of Prequels that WILL Answer those Questions...

In Hindsight they felt leaving the Xenomorph Origins out and too ambiguous was a mistake, and by not having Xenomorphs was also a mistake... in HINDSIGHT yes to a degree.... Prometheus needed to add them a LITTLE

Its just a shame that the route they had taken puts too much Emphasis on David and the Engineers, the Humans and even Xenomorphs are just mere Plot Devices...

I also Agree Michelle that some Mystery was needed.... and so Sadly a Few Changes to PROMETHEUS could have given more clues, that are easier to interpret and make a more Solid Case to what MAY have happened to the Derelict my Prometheus Re-write which i abandoned would have gave more clues to WHAT may have happened to the Derelict and also given more Xenomorph Action... but only as much as what we saw in Alien Covenant.. (Less Organisms, more action from them though).

The thing is they could have given us these things in a Prometheus sequel... they could have had David and Shaw arrive at a World Far from Earth and then discover Humans.... but again its the Problem of HOW do they communicate, unless they Spoke Engineer and so a few scenes we see David Translate to Dr Shaw... but then have other scenes where David talks to Engineers/other Humans but we hear it in English...  only for the few times for David to turn around to Shaw and say they said this and that.... so we would know the ENGLISH was only there to save us having to read Subtitles.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and looking at the RS quote now, it comes across as something of a warning and possibly RS covering his back to some extent. That being said, I still think that Prometheus and AC are good movies. YES, when under closer scrutiny there are faults. YES, there are many re-worked ideas within the sci-fi genre.

But what makes a good and successful sci-fi movie?

When you look at the movie Dark Star, it is basically a good B-movie that somehow approaches A-movie status. Dark Star was produced on a low budget and like many low budget sci-fi B-movies, it can be the approach to the special effects that holds entertainment value. Dark Star also presented some good story ideas too, which is probably what put it a little ahead of the curve. But Dark Star was at a point in movie history when sci-fi was going through a big transition in special effects and creature effects. When Alien came along it happened at a time when new standards in the whole aesthetic look of sci-fi movies were being demanded and also being delivered by Lucas and Spielberg. Some of the most successful sci-fi movies, such as 2001, and going back to the likes of Forbidden Planet were show cases for special effects.

What I am getting at here is that special effects, now matter how good or bad have been the backbone of the sci-fi industry. This brings me to what we have now. My big complaint about sci-fi, though not in all cases, is possibly the over use of CGI. Sometimes a movies can push too many effects onto an audience, and I feel that there has been an over saturation of super hero movies behind this. The knock on effect being that audiences would like more attention paid to good storylines and characters.

Now the problem I see with the Alien franchise, is that it had a unique aesthetic created by H R Giger. Of course, along with this aesthetic, we have the Xenomorph.

I believe Prometheus was one of the biggest marketing cock ups ever. Please do not get me wrong, as I like Prometheus. Unfortunately, half of the Alien franchise fans seem to disagree.

Because Prometheus did not have a Xenomorph in it, fans felt betrayed. And what has the response been? It is quite simple, Why go and see AC to be betrayed again?

Putting the xenomorph in AC, imo was a futile gesture to get bums on seats, because the damage had already been done because of Prometheus. AC could have been the greatest Sci-fi movie ever made, but I bet the response would have been the same. AC had already been set up to fail.

This is now where I point a wagging finger at marketing. Fans who went to watch Prometheus were expecting xenomorphs. Would this have happened if marketing had done their job? Secondly, Where was the marketing for AC, because I did not see anything of real substance. If I had not been a member on this forum, I would have been completely clueless in knowing AC had even been made. I’ve heard mention of marketing budgets, but what happened?

There are a wide variety of very valid points been raised already in response to this thread, so I don’t see any point in repeating them, but I do feel that the damage done by Prometheus could have been handled better by better marketing. Obviously, everyone has there own take on things, but there is a lot to be desired about the content of trailers that misrepresent movies, and as for the critics, I personaly do not give a flying fuck about all the fashionable negative feedback that is used just to promote personal egos.

At the end of the day I am a sci-fi fan, and no matter what anybody thinks or says, I will go and see that movie regardless of anybody else’s opinion, good or bad. The only thing that is going to stop me from doing that, is NOT KNOWING if that film exists, and that’s down to marketing.

Cheers.   

80's B movies

Batchpool I almost completely disagree with you. Alien Covenant was in almost all Top 10s of most anticipated movies of 2017, so how did people did not know about? 

As for Prometheus, when I went to see it I knew that I will watch a movie in the same universe as Alien, and I actually liked the fact that it had the guts to do something else. If it would have been another stupid gets infected, monster appears and every one dies off one by one it would have been as Meh as the 2010 Predators.

i paid to Covenant only because of the damage Prometheus done and 99% I won't pay for the next one if there will be one. Probably there are other people like.

#SaveTheExpanse

I think Batchpool i can kind of see where you are coming from, Prometheus was seen by some as a ALIEN movie or so they expected, but the Non-Alien Fanbase so Casual Viewer would not see it connected to ALIEN as far as Trailers an Marketing because a lot of the Public Associate ALIEN if they saw the Eggs, Xenomorphs, Face Huggers or very similar, or Ripley and Power Loaders and Marines...   so a lot of the Public from the Trailers would not make ANY connection to the Juggernaught and Space Jockey Suit Scene in the Trailers with the Original.  Because in the ALIEN Franchise the Derelict/Space Jockey Scene was so SHORT!  Its why the Producers etc wanted it Cut, and why RS Fought to have it made because he felt those SCENES are what MADE the Movie.

Ok in Prometheus (Trailer) we also had the brief shot of the Mural that was maybe the Biggest Clue this connects to ALIEN i think this shot could be missed by some, but those who saw it would connect it to ALIEN more....  But for the Alien Fans etc   The Mural was something that was VERY connected to ALIEN and it made a lot of Fans Expecting more Xenomorphs or Answers than Prometheus actually was giving.

Ridley Scott and Lindeloff had said the movie was a Sort of Prequel but it would not Directly Connect to ALIEN but it would go off on a separate Path to Explore the SPACE JOCKEY Race its Purpose, History and its connections to Mankind.  They hoped Prometheus had enough clues that drive Fans to see the Xenomorph and LV-223 are CONNECTED but without showing us HOW not in  a Spoon Fed way, so it retained some Mystery.  Because as Lindeloff had said if you go off to Directly make a Prequel, then we know how its going to END and all you are doing is connecting the Dots in a Spoon Fed Fashion to reach that END.

I think Marketing was a Problem, because it did not do enough to Show Fans that this WOULD-NOT be a Direct Alien movie, But FOX would not show the Public that this movie would have LITTLE or NOTHING to do with ALIEN, because this potentially could reduce the number of people who would see it and so people  where HOOKED into this being a ALIEN movie.

There was a idea that RS had that was the Bigger Mystery was the Space Jockey Race, their Ships and Culture and Purpose.... and that the Xenomorph was portrayed as SIMPLY a Bio-Weapon this Race was carrying to some Unknown Place....  So in context this would be like doing a movie about Mankind and Why we have Wars/Conflicts and then only Exploring WHO/WHY/WHEN was the Horrific Atomic Bomb Created.  Where as there is more to Mankind than just explain Where and When and Why we started to Create/Use Nuclear Weapons...  So that was kind of the point of Prometheus to explore the beings behind the Bio-Weapon and Motives for such a thing rather than showing us HOW the Xenomorph was created and having Aliens running around killing Human Crew.

It was a Move that however did not Please Most Fans...

In Hindsight it needed a few more clues, it needed more than a Zombie Fifield Killing Multiple Humans, it needed more than a Giant Worm Face Raping a Human and then a Angry Bald Humanoid further Killing a few people.... It needed  1-2 actual more closer Organisms to the Xenomorph, Neomorph etc...  We had the DEACON but fans would have liked to see this beast escaped and killed a few before dying itself like the ULTRAMORPH in Alien: Engineers.

In Hindsight.... a Little Bit of Alien Engineers added to Prometheus and less Ambiguous Clues between the Engineers, LV-223, Murals and Xenomorphs would have been whats NEEDED... then they could have done a sequel that could steer Further away from ALIEN and yet provided enough clues and Xenomorph Action in the First Movie to please more Fans.

But ALAS....

Going back to the OT...

Ridley Scott is correct its hard to come up with something Original anymore, or that can be done is offer a Fresher Take on already covered concepts...   Where we can take something done before, merge a few of these and attempt to offer a Movie that improves by Effects, Story and Characters/Acting...   Its hard to come up with something very NEW and Unique..

I see why he chose the route for Prometheus, to offer something a bit more Fresh within the Franchise, because Eggs => Face Huggers => Chest Busters => Xenomorphs that then go around Killing Humans.

Has been done a lot in the Franchises... Even a Xenomorphs on Earth would be a Tough thing to do, as you could end up with just another improved AVPR Flick

Ridley Scott mentioned the Beast Could go a Few more Rounds... but you have to Evolve Him... i cant be 100% sure what he meant by that... But certainly when you see the Neomorph's and many of the Alien Franchise Concepts... such as the Ultramorph these are ways to bring a Fresh Alternative the Seen to Death Xenomorph.

I think this may have bee the Original Plan... to introduce over TWO Prometheus Sequels some Fresh Looking related Organisms that may provide clues to HOW the Xenomorph fits or could be created.

But going the route of Alien Covenant that intends to Connect to ALIEN and begin to show us the Xenomorph from the Franchise, is just going to lead to something already seen and done, over and over....  Whats NEXT?

Introducing/Evolving the way Davids Proto-Xenomorph becomes Bio-Mechanical and then we have our Origins Complete.

In Alien Covenant David was the lead. I don't care if the other characters were not introduced better, they were just stepping stones to get to David. Even Walter. Even the xenomorph. They all had small roles but I did not get the feeling that David is surrounded by a bunch of idiots like in Prometheus. In Prometheus even Peter Weyland was ridiculous,  unlike his intense appearance in Covenant. Shaw was expandable,  I did not feel for her like I don't feel for Daniels. I don't really want to see the xenomorph again too soon, it is really cooked. It was good when Ripley was in the game, they were somehow inseparable. But that story is over. We need a new one now. Not a direct prequel to Alien. But to explore and experiment and create worlds we can only dream about. Lay the xenomorph to rest, it has suffered enough. 

daliens And what is your idea of a movie, as " to explore and experiment and create worlds we can only dream about" won't give money from now one to make a movie?

And if everybody else besides David is expandable what drama do you expect? If you have only a villain then what results is only schlock (Jaws 2 and onwards, Halloween 2..., ). And that applies even for the Hannibal Lecter movies and guess who made the worst one, your favourite director who never makes sequels.

@ ignorantGuy

Your point about Drama is entirely on the money. Whatever the window dressing or placement sci fi is a story with characters and both need drama. David as the endless bait and twist whose words mean nothing is not drama its a mixture of the predictable and disengaged. To return to Shaw if she healed David and arrived at a Paradise that was hell which led to her moral breakdown you have all three elements lined up in Prometheus on the move with the audience uncertain where it will end creating .... drama . The problem with the Xenomorph is two fold we have not only seen it all before we have seen the reaction to it and failure all before. If that isn't recipe for the law of diminishing returns what is. Contrast that with the enigmatic questioning right to the end of BR2049 which was a journey of discovery.   

@daliens

I can see what you mean, for some though having a movie that now is about a expanded element to show-case that attempting to Sub-Create and having this Creation become Rebellious and then Creating something to eradicate this Creation that got out of hand and THUS they abandoned this Objective.... (Bio-Weapons)  and abandoned Earth has Proved to be a GREAT Hubris to the Engineers, HOW Naive of them to ASSUME left to our own we could NEVER Evolve to the Point of Finding the Engineers.

Not only did we Evolve Technologically once they ABANDONED us, but we also Managed to Travel the Stars and Create our OWN Sub-Creation....  Then for us wanting to MEET our MAKERS we set off to seek what we thought would be their HOME.. only to Find a Place our WOULD-BE Creators had used to Create a Weapon to Destroy us.

Or Hubris for Seeking our Maker, Proved Costly to the Prometheus Crew...  The Engineers Hubris in Abandon this place and Mankind, allowed Mankinds and its CREATION David.. to arrive at this Place of Death....  a Event that allowed David to Discover their is NOTHING Special about Mankind or our Creators... and then leaving David the KEYS to the Engineers Technology and Power.

The only thing left now is the Pattern where David will Face his own HUBRIS at the Hands of his OWN Creation.

This Theme was what RS was interested in.... However as Michelle and Ignorantguy have pointed out there has to be more to this Story as far as Characters who we can attach ourselves too, in order to Engage a lot of people.... Also as a ALIEN Franchise Movie... the Emphasis/Role of the Xenomorph and Engineers has been downgraded in Favor of what appears to be a Megalomaniac Android... There is deeper themes to it than that... but the Execution in Alien Covenant was Flawed.

@Michelle

I agree that discovering what happens to Dr Shaw when she discovers the Truth, and if it puts her Faith into Question, so she realizes there is NOTHING!    We have to ask what would this DO to her?  She has NO Family, NO Partner and then to Find out her Faith is a SHAM... this would have BROKEN Her and it would have been interested to see how she may have reacted.

The name COVENANT could have been used to cover a Agreement Dr Shaw and David had made..... that he breaks... or even he could have a OPTION for her... by suggesting he could maybe FIX her Reproductive Flaws....  Would this be something she would accept?

Its what i thought may happen when we first saw the leaked set photos of Davids Workshop and i saw those Human Baby Skulls....  But ALAS these ended up being Engineers because we had the reveal there was Female Engineers.

So i do think there was so much potential that could have happened, that had to be UNDONE.. due to the Direct Path to Alien they now have chosen.

ignorantGuy

Duncan Jones' Moon (2009) was a drama? How many characters besides Sam Rockwell's one do you remember from that film. A good drama doesn't need a handful of characters, a good one with a good story could do it. And David is one of the best character I've seen in the recent years. Unfortunately we might not get to know David's story because people want another story featuring the xenomorph and some super humans. People want to identify themselves with the human super heroes. Covenant is an anti hero story and at least for me how the story would have continued is far from predictable. David is totally unreliable, unpredictable and all the more dangerous to the non synthetics around. That should do for a good drama.

daliens I know that Hollywood wants to forget a certain Kevin Spacey, but I remember his voice all too well in Moon. And you forget that Sam Rockwell 's character was in a dramatic situation. He was made only to labour himself to death being a clone, but his feeling was real towards his family. And I honestly liked how in Berlin (a very underrated movie in my opinion), we found out that he arrived on Earth and kept fighting to be legally accepted as a human being, but his story was concluded in 1 movie.

On the other hand, David was reporpused from the "side-kick" in Prometheus (second credits for MF), to villain/protagonist in Covenant (first credits). It was not started as his story, but changed to it in the second movie only because they thought it would make more money.

His situation was never dramatic or to provoke sympathy. He served over 70 years under the root of evil Weyland without revolting and even had sympathy for the a**-hole. He is Frankenstein's monster who receives the companionship he longs for but says f**k it, let's be an a**-hole like his creator and kill her during experiments. He is clearly shown as a psychopath and those very likely kill themselves when they realize they f***-up. And this story most likely would have ended being him getting face-hugged (yawn). So why should I care about such a story?

And you think that Weyland was so cool in Covenant, but you know what he was an idiot as the rest of the humans. If you program an AI and it starts saying disturbing stuff, you don't force him to pour tee but you start the Debugger (the true weapon of god).

And your argument final statement confirms me. If all humans are stepping stones, thus unimportant, why should I care that they are in danger? Do you get it? 

I hate Superhero movies, but I hate cliches more. Killer robots are one of them that should have died long ago.

ignorantGuy

Let's say David was too idiosyncratic and at the time it made Peter Weyland proud of what he called the closest thing to a son. Would you "debug" your son for that?

And your argument final statement confirms me. If all humans are stepping stones, thus unimportant, why should I care that they are in danger?

Let's say David is so unbearably evil and you already hate it so much and hope that finally one of those unimportant, weak humans will be able to stop it somehow. That's why you watch the movie, to see how are they gonna do it.

Let's admit it, it is not easy to find a match for David.

But if you don't agree, how do you envision the next film in the franchise?

daliens Look man, I don't hate David, on the contrary I find him pitiful and idiotic and I would to see him kill everything in the Galaxy, for a change, as I said I don't care about any character, and in the end Weyland-Yutani will survive for another 250 years, after which it will be bought up by Walmart. That is more horrific in my opinion...

As for the franchise as a whole I'll quote something familiar "...there is nothing in the desert. No man needs nothing."

But ultimately I could be wrong and Sir Scott would have cooked something great ... but I highly doubt it.

I think the whole Arc of David was interesting, but it was a bit overdone in Alien Covenant... some may dislike the AI aspect and think it just means Crazy AI... Some can see then Philosophy at play... where its a case of there is NOTHING Special about Mankind... we are also just Robots with Advanced AI only we are Naturally Created (or not so) Organic Machines... 

The Problem is Action Alone is not good enough... Characters do come to play and the David from Alien Covenant does not get any sympathy or connection with the Audience compared to the David from Prometheus..  but they can try and FIX this....   But you need Human or Humanoid Characters you can connect with to feel their Jeopardy and these have to be done well..

But with AC it looks like its going to be a Clean Slate.. New Characters but what would be the point if NONE Survive... or HOW do those who Survive play a Role in the Final Chapter where Davids Creations must end up on a Engineer Ship and so LEAVE Origae-6 and head to the LV-223/426 System.

I think the Problem is the Direction Taken with Alien Covenant the Space Jockey Scene was very ALIEN...  when we was asking ourselves about this Scene... How/When/Why was the Pilot their with that Cargo.... Who made the Xenomorph, what was the Space Jockey Race doing with it and what more can we find out about the Space Jockey and what Conflict/Agenda they were involved in.

What we are arriving at NOW appears to be the Event is Started due to a Conquest of Peter Weyland, then the Weyland Company and connected to their Synthetic Creation David who creates the Xenomorph that the Company try to obtain from David after following the Advent Viral..... and likely throw in some Curve-ball AI Angle where AI is actually very involved in the Company Behind the Scenes using Mankind as PAWNS...

The Emphasis could be more on David/Company Agenda and AI Curve-ball rather than the Very Alien Scene from Alien about a ALIEN Pilot and his crashed ship containing the Deadly Alien Cargo.

But this can also be FIXED.

I think Advent contains the messages sent by David to Weyland-Yutani before the Covenant left the Earth for Origae 6 and then we have the Phobos video with the tests on the crew to be selected for the mission. So if WY sent David his flock of lambs were are they heading to now? What if the colony on Origae 6 was just a pretext to gather so many good souls?

I am not sure the derelict on LV426 has something to do with David or the Space Jockey is indeed David. Most probably that's a long dead engineer.

The engineers from LV223 were dead for a thousand years. The SJ from LV426 might have been even older.

In Advent David said "So I took their secrets for myself." It might be that all his experiments are based on the engineers recipes and then forbidden rituals. The xenomorph was not new to the engineers, but something they had banished long ago. That would explain also the warning signal from the derelict ship, sent by an engineer. David would have sent another country song if he was the SJ.

That's my guess,  Ridley Scott treats the derelict as a separate incident that happened long before David ambulated.

Why then David created his own xenomorph on planet 4? Because idle hands are devil's workshop and he needed something to trade in for his rescue. He wouldn't accept to waste his perfection alone in a dire necropolis. He needed acceptance, recognition. He might have been sincere when he came with an olive branch. 

I really want to see what's next.

@ Big Dave

…………so people  where HOOKED into this being a ALIEN movie.

Exactamundo.

@ ignorantGuy

….Alien Covenant was in almost all Top 10s of most anticipated movies of 2017, so how did people did not know about?

There are two points of interest I see here.

1. If Alien Covenant was so anticipated, then what exactly happened at the box office?

John Carter, according to Box Office Mojo currently puts takings as $73,078,100 domestic gross and is cited as being a flop. Alien Covenant comes in at $74,262,031

So I think the numbers speak for themselves.

1. How did people not know?

Geographically some places got better marketing than others, so I think it is fair to say that those that lived in an area where the marketing was good, will probably be scratching their heads as to how people missed it.  However I know for a fact that regions where I live saw better coverage from a belly dancer’s g-string.

Maybe I am just re-phrasing something that has already been said, and opinions on both AC and Prometheus are wide and varied, but I would like to share an observation of my own. I recently re-watched an old favourite sci-fi movie of mine called Cypher.

The movie is low budget, but I think it has a good storyline and presents some decent ideas. There is a scene that focuses on an individual who can detect an infiltrating agent better than a machine. This individual claims that the moment a corporate agent has arrived he has sensed the fact that there is something amiss. The tension of this scene works because the audience knows the goals of the agent and their investment into the character goes beyond this scene.

I mention this because in a way it got me thinking of the Alien franchise as a whole, and maybe why Ripley was such an important character. I’m not saying this is the only reason though. At the heart of every Alien film with Ripley in it, there is an end goal to each movie. We have time invested in wanting to see Ripley survive, and maybe why her death in Alien3 did not go down too well.

Moving on to AC and Prometheus, I feel there is a lack of an overall objective. Every scene in both movies does not appear to lead to a greater end goal imo which I think reduces the impact on the death of characters. Killing Shaw off just seems to be like killing off a greater objective.

By the end of AC are we really presented with any great end game objective? I don’t think so. So where exactly does this leave us?

RS has produced a lot of films, but to quote Walter “ When one note is off it eventually destroys the whole symphony”. If I was to put my finger on something, it is like detecting within both Prometheus and AC that there is a note off. It is like sensing that there is something just not quite right and that RS is taking a gamble on something. Whether this gamble pays off is why I would be compelled to watch a third movie if there is one. RS has certainly decided he would prefer a new direction in which to take things, but I just feel that the element of not having some sort of end game plan that a wide audience can grasp is a problem.

"What if the colony on Origae 6 was just a pretext to gather so many good souls?"

I think this is potentially something to consider daliens

With what we know about the Covenant from the Prequel Novel, it did not take long for the Covenant to reach the area where Planet 4 was not far from....   But then if the Covenant was sent to the location of Planet 4 or abouts... it makes the Neutrino Burst a bit of a Coincidence, unless David caused it which we have to ask HOW?

The other Problem would be HOW would David be able to send this information via Engineer Technology? 

And then its  a case of if Origae-6 was a Set-Up just to arrive at Planet 4 for David to use the Colonist to continue his work...  then we have to ask why would David go to Origae-6?  Would he/Company not prefer him to continue his work on Planet 4, or near by with those Thousands of Good Souls/Sheep.....  

Ridley Scott Claims the Engineers Return to discover the devastation David has caused and would be off to want to get their hands on David so we have to assume he DOES-NOT hang around Planet 4.

But non the less is a possible explanation... and who knows where they choose to take us, but i have a feeling the Advent was Sent after David had obtained control over the Covenant Ship... but indeed the Phobos Viral Tests are interesting and could mean the Company had this mission as a Set-Up... its something worth debating.

Regarding the Derelict..... its not set in STONE yet that its either as Ancient as we thought, or that it is as recent as being after Alien Covenant.... i think there is room for them to amend once again this event.

There are a few inconsistencies between the Space Jockey and the Engineers Suits..... the Color Difference being interesting... or is this a Oversight....  It would have been more consistent if the Dead Engineer Suits were more closer to the Space Jockey Bone Color, while the Pristine Suits and Engineer Pilot in Prometheus were the Grey/Black Color.