Alien: Exodus

Btw, no disrespect or offense at all meant in my posts ( if anyone is offended btw - I don't care ).

Now, I have to tell I am least bit interested in "the march towards the inevitable" - frankly, the machinations of how exactly the prequels lead to ALIEN do not bother me much. I am all for a good story posing some good questions. For instance I enjoyed Prometheus and AC. There are many things packed in them to dissect one way or the other. Perhaps there is even too much of such freedom in them to draw substantiated conclusions, which is frustrating at times. But this is understandable as this is all a product of fantasy of a few people, sometimes changing things as they go along(perhaps this is the default modus operandi indeed) this is not a mathematical theory checked independently by many over and over again. But it still shares that kind interesting and fascinating features with the beautiful and slick theories in math. It is all good entertainment anyway(or has been).

So, if the march towards inevitable actually constrains the story telling then I am of the opinion to hell with it - just tell the good story and don't bother with the details of 10 years there or not - some micro-discontinuities and inconsistencies do not matter. But this is arguable, to some, perhaps this is crucial. And I can live with that as well :)

As for religion and faith. In the movie we are shown that it is not an enduring thing. It never made humans live forever. There is nothing in it as far as David is concerned - it is all BS. Even if he will probably allow you to believe whatever you want to believe. He is not a thought fascist you know - the freedom to think freely is something he values. Humans and their religion is shown to be a thing of the past. It is not enduring. Even some folks of the crew where non-religious(in fact, deniers). What is enduring you might ask? David and his seemingly unlimited life-span. Something humans lack. Besides, the religion can be sub-planted. It only endures by word of mouth - some people indoctrinate the followers. What if at some point there are no such carriers to indoctrinate the following generations, will the religion endure? The answer is no in the movie : all those civilizations some 30,000 years old are gone and only thing left from them is the mural on the walls.  Gone are their beliefs if they ever had any. (We are shown that the religion is not an innate, an intrinsic and essential thing for living creatures, unlike say death - we are not born with religion, but we are born with genetically programmed death, or at least we are born with genetic programme that is prone to outside factors which mean we eventually die - we are not robust enough! Perhaps evolution will lead to such species, who knows?). The only thing that endured is the picture of some tall being - an engineer. And we know David is superior to those folks. I know many do not like this, but David is much more enduring than any sort of religion have ever hoped(if it makes sense :). After all, which is more convincing: being able to live forever or believing something you can't really test and have only a hope to live forever after death. The choice is yours to make. Somehow I believe a lot of people on a death bed would forgo their beliefs if they were offered unlimited lifespans. Okay, there is this prevailing justification that there is beauty in death - it is often ascribed as to be human to die. But, what if we are indeed are the product of some mere biological chance, who perish forever after death(which is very very likely). What if there is nothing at all after death and only nothingness? Recall, btw, the last words of Weyland - "there is nothing ...". The rest, ie, the completion of the phrase is your fantasy btw, for we don't know if Weyland didn't utter a complete sentence. Sorry for double negative - just work it out.(Btw, the LoA is a fascination of David. But where did it come from? David learned about it from Peter. In a sense he adopted it from Peter. And actually the story of Lawrence in the desert is that after a certain point(I bet his backside hurt for a long time after "fun" with the turks) there is nothing sacrosanct in that desert, it just a very bloody and same as everywhere - it is all about a fight for resources and egos, the classical story of lifelong struggle of a man on earth. So, there is nothing special in the desert, hence we are shown Lawrence losing his flamboyance(ironically, by help of anti-heroes) and returning home. Safe but a bit broken(surely in the backside at least) but with incredible story to tell. Now, back to P and AC and question of immortality vs unfounded beliefs. Okay, forget about yourself for a moment, would you not want it to be somehow possible for not losing your loved ones? If humans ever manage to produce a thing like David Humans should be proud of such an achievement - they'd have created something that will outlast everything they ever believed and imagined. They(humans in the movie) and indeed we should embrace such thing and actually make sure that they/we do not have to die and perish into nothingness. Of course such thing should be a choice :) But somehow I, being cynical, doubt that anybody would want to die given the choice, especially in later stages of life. If a person has lived all this way and he didn't take his life, why would that person reject it at the end?! If they do then they are at least irrational.

So, one of the big questions posed by the movie is : which do you chose, rationality(and embracing technical advance) or sticking to your old guns(btw, I am no 'merican) and traditions( the way the question is posed requires to have a bit of irrationality in the second part, but I am not saying that sticking to your long held beliefs is necessarily irrational)? Does your answer change if you are promised immortality as a result of the technical advance. And if you come to see that some people live forever, would you reject it because you and your fore-bearers didn't live forever? These questions are indeed ahead of the curve, that Ridley was talking about. Essentially he is asking how would humans look upon people who advanced to live forever(David is one such form of possible life). Will the people reject that or co-operate like Shaw did - she didin't mind David's company, did she? And of course the question is asked : is it bad to live forever - "they are struggling for resurrection". David doesn't want some of the humans to live forever. How do you look upon such view of his? I bet David would let Shaw live forever though. So put yourself into David's shoes would you want to grant immortality to somewhat hostile, unpredictable and irrational folks?(what if they use their immortality to kill all life?). And the question can be asked to David, "what did we do wrong" - when he said that humans do not deserve to live. Will he let them live forever if they change some irrationality? Just to exemplify the question : imagine if an AI(basically a computer) claims that it knows how to make humans immortal, but it is refusing to tell humans how to do it(and for the sake of argument, humans do not know at the moment how to do it themselves) because it thinks humans are assholes and do not deserve such a thing. This is blood boiling stuff isn't it? You created a thing from nothing, from scratch and yet it is refusing to help you out! That is the suspense in the question "What kind of world will David create". It would be wrong for David to not give humans immortality/freedom judging by their past - he simply doesn't know and can't really predict how humans would be if they lived forever. There were no such test conducted so he would be making decision based on uncertainty should he reject giving freedom/immortality to the embryos/humans. But who knows, perhaps xenomorphs are so smart that they figured out that humans are just waste of space and need to be consumed :)

Now, lets go & tone down our(my?) excitement and go back and worry about how the march towards the inevitable should be played out so that it is consistent with a movie that came out eons ago(that probably only negligible percent of people care, even here :)

BioDegradted ... sure that David is a free thinker. Everybody that ever contradicted him is dead. Even the nazis were the same, you are free to think like us or you will disappear. 

But it is fine, you can love a Nazi character and to use ethnic slurs, this is perfectly normal.

please be specific where I am being insulting or crossing a line, otherwise you just make yourself look ridiculous - I find this a bit astonishing and amusing actually and that is because I recall your username -  it is the second time that you specifically came out slandering me of something I never meant and said.

Again, if you feel offended - just know that there is something wrong with you not with me(specifically, you are projecting your insecurities - it is you who spilled the beans when you said there is Nazi thing here and made me like the Nazi character for his Nazism and my slander of what exactly?). All I am engaging in here is some somewhat intellectual debates/arguments. We are discussing what-if scenarios about imaginary characters. But do not for a second think this is me being somewhat defensive or I am backtracking - because I am not. My admiration of charater's actions or anything really is none of your or anybody's business as long as I do it rationally.

You do have a few chips on your shoulders, don't you? Also are you new to the internets? I probably can't pass up on such a glorious opportunity and tell you(lay a bit of boot on you. You can imagine the proverbial boot being made by Hugo Boss, lol) : either be very specific with your accusations(you can quote quite easily on this forum) or just shut it and get lost with all your insecurities. Frankly, just lose them - be open minded by just thinking that most of the people will not agree with you and think by default that you are probably wrong.

David being Nazi is a bizarre thing and deserves discussion actually. Me being Nazi, as you think, however - is not so interesting, because my identity/person is of no interest(I am a boring bloke). Btw, it is your freedom to do whatever you wish, even being Nazi if you wish so.

btw, this is a good test actually.

If you think David to be a Nazi or you believe David might discriminate on the grounds of religious beliefs( say if you think David likes people of christian faith but not in islam ) you ascribe to him something fundamentally humanly flawed thing(which he would certainly would not be most pleased about) and radially irrational patterns, which he would almost certainly not like, because those are innately human constructs and therefore not in his nature - he will be disappointed with you, and recall how that went for Walter. Now, he loathes human species(that one in the movie), well majority of them anyway (he quite liked Shaw and pitied Weyland in the end) but if you find such motives in his moves, I think that rather tells more about you than David.

Faith and Religion are interesting in Context to IF Mankind or a selection Manage to become Immortal!

Its not a clear and cut case, as with Religion and Faith some are more Dedicated/Fanatical than others who are more Liberal and those who are  HARD-CORE may indeed have a different outlook in the light of being able to Scientifically become Immortal... they may choose to SHUN such Advancements as Blaspheme to the TRUE Immortality Promised by their Faith where as some more Liberal Religious people may have a different outlook on their Faith in Light of such a Scientific Advancement
and then some could accept this Evolution but then still accept their Faith.. the Question is how many years after they have become Immortal would they Abandon that Faith as not having a Need for it? 

What if someone gains Immortality via Scientific Advancements and yet still have their Faith, and then 200-300 years latter what happens then if their Immortality Remains what do they think of their Faith then?

Another interesting thing would be WOULD David allow his Creation Immortality?  Or would he have learned the Hubris of Mankind and the Engineers.   i am not sure David would want to Create or Gift his Creations a Equal Footing never mind Greater Superiority to himself.  But thats just my Interpretation and if i am WRONG then this at least adds to the Hubris Themes and will be Davids Undoing!

I do think the ULTIMATE Evolution and Quest for Immortality for Mankind would be the day they can Transcend their Soul into a AI or Machine!

The Plot of the Movie Transcendence shows that Dr. Will Caster  has in effect Cheated Death and gained a Immortal Soul!  It is interesting to Ponder that some Alien Species or even Mankind would/could at some time Achieve exactly this.

David was shown to commit Genocide, but then he may have Good Reasons to do so... for example if you are aware of these beings and the intentions they had, you already got your head torn off, and now someone you Care About wants to walk up to these Guys for Answers even if it means they may potentially just Tear her in TWO...  David is FREE and i think he wants to be a Survivor and Destroying the Engineers is a way to Survive and maybe Salvage Dr Shaw some Answers from the RUINS?

He is also disappointed with Mankind and maybe his plans could be to Destroy them, but if this was the case surely there are other ways to do so...  and going to LV-223 and Swapping the Covenant for a Engineer Ship would be the best plan if this was the case.

I think we have to look at what RS means about what kind of a World he would Build rather than Destroy....  and we see David seemed to have a interest in Walter, but he saw that Walter would not come round to his kind of thinking and forsake Mankind.

David seemed interested in the Neomorph, and his Xenomorph and he was upset at when Oram killed the Neomorph... so i think David CAN care for some Creations, its a case of could he come to give Mankind a 2nd Chance?

Does he think Mankind as a Species cant be Redeemed? Or only WHAT we have become.... Knowledge and Free-will are KEY and if you have some Humans who have their Memories Wiped, then are they Free of all their Sins and Flaws as far as their Humanity and how Good/Evil they are?

Children are Born Sin Free.... a child can grow up to be Kind of Heart as Elisabeth Shaw, or as Selfish and Arrogant as Peter Weyland so maybe David would want to try and build a World with Humanoids that can Live up to what ever kind of Culture and Empathy etc that David would wish.

If we look at GOD he is kind of enforcing his ways on people and has committed Genocide to those who dont follow his ways would this make God a Nazi?   I can see elements why David can be viewed this way, was that a intention? i dont think so, but everyone is entitled to conclude how they see David as.

I interpret it as him being a Creation who sees himself as Superior to his Creators, and sees nothing Special about his Creators or even their own Creators and he views their Creators the Engineers as beings who had Great Knowledge, Tools and Technology but who Ultimately were no real different to Humans and had pursued Creation and Perfection but then Abandoned it and David feels these Engineers are just NOT WORTHY of the Gifts they Bare.

They are False-Gods.... and he sees himself as Superior and the Natural Order of Creation, and Heir to the THRONE of CREATION and he sees himself as being WORTHY of being a Creator and i feel he wishes to Create and Pursue Perfection at a Far Greater Result than his Wanna Be God Father and Humanities False-God Engineers.

Here is what i have been led to in regards to the Sequel to Alien Covenant (as it appeared Fall 2017) this is my interpretation (its also not far off my plans for my sequels) i cant say how close this kind of Plot is, maybe we will NEVER find out.

I think its pretty sure the Covenant Ship will head to Origae-6 and i think maybe we will get some time on the Ship but i dont expect any Great Length of time being on the ship.

I think David will either build a Walter from Parts, or maybe there are Spare Walters, and David will UPLOAD his Soul into this New Body.  At the very least David will get some Parts and Repair his Missing Hand.  I say this because i cant see Fassbender playing a One Armed Robot all movie and i think he may Charade as a Walter and if he is to Fool the other Colonist (he will need them to help set up the Colony Outpost and Infrastructure, Unless he intends to Build a World from Basics so Wood Etc).  I think we may get some Philosophical Scenes and maybe Memories of David.

They will arrive at Origae-6 some point after April 2112

I think maybe we could then see a Jump In time... were we arrive at a setting on Origae-6 where the colony has begun to be set up, or it may even be Partially Set Up... Now what kind of a Colony will depend on what Davids plans are for the Colonist.

*Does he Charade as Walter and have Adult Colonist help him and do we see some of these remain?  i dont think he will awaken Hundreds never mind more of them.  And we have a Colony that is not too great in Number, but how does he explain this and to the others?

*Does he eventually Kill Off the Adults and maybe some of the 2000 Colonist are Children, and he then settles them down on the Surface.  His Subjects.

*Does he instead Experiment on the Embryos? or Raises them? But bare in mind if he did this within the first Month it would take 5-6 years before they become 5-6 year olds and we have just 10 years until Alien... but maybe he could Evolve the Embryos so they would Grow Faster and be his Creation.

Either way i think we will have this Colony Set Up, how large it would be.. i am not sure it would be Huge.  And depending which of the 3 Scenarios above, could Determine if the Colony has Technology like the Living Quarters Modules from the Covenant.   Or do they build a Colony that uses Natural Resources and Comprises of Wooden Buildings.  This would be more unlikely with Scenario 1

I am in part wondering if we would see a more Armish Like Community and maybe comprises of Children (Adults could have set it up and been Killed before Children settled there) and i think this Colony would live in some kind of Simple and Religious kind of Life, like Amish, like maybe those Planet 4 Engineers i am not sure this would work well with Adults... (but my idea i did) and so maybe we could have some kind of Wooden Theme World with Ritual/Religious way of life like Monks... Or maybe the Colony has some Technology and is constructed with those Modules on the Covenant?

The Colony is living in Tranquil Peace, and they follow either a Religion that is pre-existing or one that David has given them, and he is seen as either a Saviour, or maybe Godlike (if the Colony is Children) ....

But David has some Secrets, i think we will at some point see and Discover what has happened to some or many of the Colonist, and maybe Daniels..   were we will see the aftermath of Experiments (maybe flashbacks of them happening) and these Colonist are either kept in another location on Origae-6 a Forbidden Place to those Cultist Colonist or they are kept on the Covenant, and again in either a Far Away Forbidden Place or in Space (which means David would have the Lander Hidden in a Forbidden Place) Do we discover he has Daniels Held up some place? Do we get Scenes of him interacting with her? Or do we get the Dr Shaw Treatment?

I think the main Focus wont be on the Experiments or other Colonist that relate to Xenomorphs and Eggs but we will get some Glimpses of this.   Maybe this place and the Eggs/Xenomorphs or something else could be explained as Punishment, what happens to those who SIN a way to keep the Colony in Check... if these are the DEMONS and maybe there Location is  HELL

I think we will explore a lot of Philosophy about Religion, Creation, Punishment etc etc

This all Goes to Hell.... Once a incoming Human Ship arrives, does David manage to get to contact them and get these Humans to go to the Place he has HELL (or a Original Colony Set up) or does he get them to go to the Covenant Ship? 

Does some Suspicious things happen that make some of the Colony he has Curious? do some of these Investigate?

Does some of the Incoming Humans arrive at another Place (Original Technological Colony) or the Covenant, and Discover whats going on and then go down to Davids Colony?  (i cant see them being attacked by Xenomorphs or maybe just ONE as the movie is supposed to NOT be about Xenomorphs).

Or do these Humans head down to where Davids Colony in Harmony is?

I think something will happen that will lead to those Colonist (maybe Children) Discovering that everything is not how it seems.... IF they Colony is Children, or people who had Memories Erased... how would they React when People who look the Same Come or are Discovered... and then THE Truth comes out, where David is rumbled..

How would this effect the Colonist, what if they are Fed a Different History and Origin by David that is now seen as a Shame because Humans from Earth Arrive?

Could this have happened and we merely Flash Past this and have a After-Math of what happens to those incoming Humans, and does David keep some Alive?    Do some of his Colony get Supicious at this and make a Discovery and David Sadly has to Kill some of his Colonist to regain ORDER?

But then another incoming Ship with Military who are aware of the Advent (a prior mission may have been kept in the dark) they arrive and they discover what David has done and then they come down to his Colony and THIS is how he is rumbled.... does he warn those Colonist these Humans are Evil and get them to side with him?

I think at some point the TRUTH comes out and David is found out and HELL BREAKS lose.... and then i think at the End we will then see the ENGINEERS Return.

I cant say how accurate this is... i do think some elements of it could be at play,  or even if the Plot like this is put in part as something that happened in the past and the Movie Mainly Focus at the end of the First Act on our First or Second Incoming Human Ship

BigDave, you must have your head spinning with all these possible scenarios, don't you? You know, after some point all these theories become a bunch of gibberish - and it is really hard to tell what might be what and which is more probable. I mean, it is clearly impossible to foretell the future script(should there be any), and the openness of the possibilities is frankly uncountably infinite and therefore any theory is as good(and likely) as any other.

Just for entertainment, how about this one:

It is simple for David to get rid of the colonists - on the one hand he could jump start a life for human embryos as he sees fit, perfecting them by granting them immortality by altering their make up and thus forcing a new evolutionary step in human species (immortality is something that is surely present with high probability in the black goo, which he had ample time to probe) giving humanity a chance with best intentions on the Origae-6, then, fly the Covenant with the colonists who are already spoiled by their earthy experience(and therefore forsaken) to the LV-223(I am not sure how much time this might take), make xenomorph eggs from them there, (well because he is their father as well and it is his perfect organism as well) load them all up on a derelict with a plan to go to Earth to replace those unworthy(?) earthlings, but at this point something unexpected happens - the guests arrive for their revenge and spoil a bit David's party. His plan was to have some balance of sorts - he has his "wolf"-a xeno, now he has to have his "sheep"-perfected humans. But the curve-ball that is thrown at David is something that he should have expected, since he is surely by Walters discovery and his own admission the next visionary :) A god. And gods never die, right? Well, if Weyland's fate was something to go by, then not quite. And this is the irony - the same fate struck David. And the moral of the story is that being a god is not a straightforward 1-2-3-bulleted plan and perhaps being perfect a AI with relatively unlimited life-span is not enough.(of course, David needs to have a proper replication strategy -a backup of sorts, here you can speculate if he uploaded himself to Ash or Murthur or whatever).

Well, as we know - David is NOT Superior. Walter is Superior. He have better body and he have... better knowledge! Yes, he can't create... on start! But he can can learn.

But David... Do you remember - he was wrong about Byron instead Shelley. He have mistake and how many more? And really interesting question is not "what world build David as superior?", but - "what world build David as mistaken and deluded?"

Yes, David is able to appreciate the beauty. But has its own representation about it. Show, Xenomorphs, dead world. David can build new world, but this is will not be a world with shining and blue skies, and with happy deluded innocent new humans. NO! It's will be the dark and cruel world with sacrifices and xenomorphs, where people live only as slaves and incubators for Aliens. And (as I view) it's can be perfectly connected to Alien.

I have two ideas.

1) Maybe Enginners come to Origae-6, but all of them are destroyed by xenomorphs (well, David can created about a thousand xenomorphs, if he divide into two parts 2000 colonists and first part will be eggs and second part will be xenomorphs). Then David captured they ship and he OR his humans slaves (i like this) will be piloting this ship on Earth or/with stop at LV-223 for restocking black goo and modification of xenomorphs, but pilot be infested and ship crash on LV-426.

2) David can meet W-Y new crew (this people know what did David, but they have deal with him. I mean bioweapon for W-Y - you know). He demonstrates the xenomorphs for them and this crew don't care about David's human slaves. But Engineers coming and chaos begins. Engineers put eggs on ship and go to LV-223 for studying. David or humans who hide in the Derelict infect the pilot and ship crashed on LV-426 before or after LV-223.

P.S. @BigDave if you interested philosophy and AI, I recommend to you play in The Talos Principle (with Road to Gehena) - it's about philosophy/religion/science and humans/civilization evolution, and, of course, AI as GOD. And SOMA - it's about a good idea why a mind transfer impossible, but copy is possible. Also find "memetics " - i think you like it.

@BioDegradable

I think regarding Immortality to a Organic Organism this would be some kind of Wholy Grail of Genetic Engineering and to some extent what the Engineers had done to themselves in the Original Concept/Plot (Alien Engineers) and you can bet its something that Weyland would have aspired to accomplish but the closest he maybe came as Creating a Synthetic Immortal Body (if only he found the means to Transcend the Soul to it),  i think pondering such a Plot is very interesting as it fits with the Themes that the Prequels had been showing.  If we assume the Black Goo has the ability to Reprogram Genomes of Organic Matter and it can take the Genetic Code of Certain Traits and apply them to Organisms that lack them. (like take what makes a Chameleon Lizard Change Color and apply it to a Mammal for Instance).  Then we can assume the Black Goo can Engineer Regenerative Traits, we have to remember Ridley Scott claimed the Xenomorph would have Regenerated Itself...  is this a Trait of the Black Goo or a Trait from another Organism that David used the Black Goo to Program into his Xenomorphs, then we cant throw out the possibility he could apply this Trait to other Organisms.

Here is where David would be in a Dilemma... if he could Engineer Humanoids who could Vastly Live for Longer, or yet more so...... then on ONE Hand David would have Surpassed the Engineers, and his Creator Weyland in their Accomplishments and Created the Perfect Humanoid. Making David have more rights to claim he is more Godlike/Perfect Creator than his Ancestral History but on the Flip Side would be a Hubris that he may have created something more Superior to Himself and would repeating the Mistakes of his For-bearers.

Would David not be so Foolish? or would his pursuit of trying to become the Greater Creator and Surpass his Father and the Engineers accomplishments  by attempting to create the Most Perfect Superior Life-Form and the effect this would have on his Legacy and Ego be too much for him to turn away from?

A way to Control a Creation is via Knowledge and Free-will the less Knowledge and Free-will your Creation have the less of a threat they could be....  If David could influences his Creations to see him as a GOD and David lays down a Foundation of Rules and what happens to those who Break the Rules.... in effect a kind of Religion then he could subdue and manipulate his Creation.

What happens when his Creations Discover David is NO God and Not Superior or In-Superior to them?  What happens when someone else comes along and reveals to them the History of Creation and Mankind and so Davids Creations discover that he is NOT Special and has told Lies?  I would think such Themes are what really interests Ridley Scott but the Question is how much of such Themes would have been explored in the Sequel?

Certainly i agree that David would maybe want to have his WOLF (Xenomorph) and his LAMB (Colonist or his Engineered Humans)  he would need some kind of Back-Up Plan for when his Creation goes Wrong! and this is likely WHY those Engineers attempted to create the Bio-Weapons on LV-223.

"David needs to have a proper replication strategy -a backup of sorts, here you can speculate if he uploaded himself to Ash or Murthur or whatever)."

I forgot to add this kind of Sub-Plot but i have mentioned it quite a lot in relation to potentially what the Sequel could show as i have assumed the route would lead to a reveal that AI is running the show, with Humanity in the Dark.  I do think this potentially is what RS could do with the Plot down the Line... and indeed my Prometheus 2 was covering the same thing..... only Peter Weylands Soul in AI Form.

I think looking back to the Sequel and the Comments and Set-up i feel that they would be going to Origae-6 and we will see the Colony get built to some degree, and David will LIVE among them be they Surviving Colonist, or Engineered Ones or Children...  i think we will see a Colony as being set up and in some Peaceful Harmony a NEW EDEN a Paradise.  I even think they may abbot some kind of Basic Living maybe even related to some Cult/Religious Order 

I say this because i dont think David would go and Create a World that is just turning Humans into Xenomorphs or Eggs or very similar.... as RS mentioned the Plot would not be about Xenomorphs but about Artificial Intelligence  and i dont think by AI he means it would Soley be about DAVID or about David Building more Synthetics, or David Controlling the AI of the Weyland-Yutani Systems including any incoming Synthetics... but i cant rule this out as being a part of it.

When he mentions about how the Replicants are AI and the Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals (not Enhanced LV-223 ones) then i feel RS is touching upon how Artificial Intelligence/Life does not have to be NON-ORGANIC

You can be sure the Incoming Parties would play a ROLE in the Revelation to the Colonist of WHO he really is (David) and i so wonder if he has some Experiments and Horrors in store for some of the Colonist and Daniels which he has KEPT away from his Colony and its Citizens.... and what happens when the HORRORS and Darker Side of David are revealed!

I think the Plot would feature such things as far as the Broad-Strokes.... i do think the Returning Engineers part would be the Final Act and Set-Up the maybe the FINAL part of the Prequels which would Feature the Xenomorph, its Evolution and Set-Up how the Derelict comes into play.

"Well, as we know - David is NOT Superior. Walter is Superior."

Certainly and i think David in part admires this and in part he may be Jealous of it.   Walter is Limited by his Knowledge and Lack of Free-will and ONCE Walter is granted these Gifts that David has then HE would be more Superior.   I think the mistakes come from David in Part becoming more Human, his Emotions becoming more Complex but also maybe his lack of Maintenance.

"And really interesting question is not "what world build David as superior?", but - "what world build David as mistaken and deluded?"

Certainly.... Hubris and Mistakes and Errors of Judgment are a Human Characteristic and One David may have Inherited but its also a mistake that can come from a Ego!  I think David may feel he would have achieved Perfection and a Paradise but ULTIMATELY indeed this will Fail due to Mistakes and Hubris.....  The Advent Message may indeed come back to HAUNT him.

"NO! It's will be the dark and cruel world with sacrifices and xenomorphs, where people live only as slaves and incubators for Aliens. And (as I view) it's can be perfectly connected to Alien"

Plot wise it maybe seems logical if we look at David as being just a Crazy Genocidal Maniac only intent on the Destruction of Humanoid Life.... and wishes to have his Xenomorphs Rule the Galaxy.... and i would certainly be led to the same kind of Plot by Virtue of ALIEN COVENANT and the Advent Viral Video Message and how it would all lead to ALIEN

I think such a Plot would be better to please the Fans, as the other route would be taking it a bit too far away from ALIEN and the Xenomorph.... HOWEVER... the comments by Ridley Scott seem to indicate otherwise.  And some of the Comments by David too...  such as his reveal of WHY he Destroyed the Engineers, and offered Dr Shaw a chance to start a New Eden.  His reaction towards the Neomorph and Walter to a degree shows he was open to Welcoming them and Dr Shaw... but if they Reject/Oppose him then he really shows his BAD side.

Maybe i read to much into the Lyrics of the Nature Boy Trailer Song, and the Question that was asked of David/Walter by Daniels.

"What kind of a World can we Build?  If we are Kind to it, it will be a KIND World"

But i do think that we would see any World he Builds become Corrupted by the Incoming Humans, or Knowledge of the Truth that leads to Rebellion and then INDEED we will see David have to Let the Wolves on the Lambs!

Regarding you PLOTS Leto.....

I was thinking the same, and i think thats a Pretty Accurate to how the Final Act of the Sequel and Certainly the 2nd Sequel would GO.... both aspects of 1) + 2) are very plausible as far as the Set-Up at the End of what Alien Covenants Sequel would have... and then be what a fair share of the 3rd Alien: Prefix Prequel would show.

"But i do think that we would see any World he Builds become Corrupted by the Incoming Humans, or Knowledge of the Truth that leads to Rebellion and then INDEED we will see David have to Let the Wolves on the Lambs!"

Or the world that David builds become corrupted by his mistakes. And incoming humans (or engineers, or truth) are just a lever.

"Maybe i read to much into the Lyrics of the Nature Boy Trailer Song, and the Question that was asked of David/Walter by Daniels.

"What kind of a World can we Build?  If we are Kind to it, it will be a KIND World""

The answer is clearly Walter. He can create a New Eden, not a David. You forgot what David wants to reign in Hell.

What would you know - I'm don't look at David as a robo-maniac. No, but David is just different. He said: "No one understands the lonely perfection of my dreams". Perfection. Perfect. What mean perfect in Alien Universe? Only one - Perfect Organism. David love alien life forms. It's not about destruction of humanoids (David is also humanoid). It's just about create the Perfect Organism. Xenomorph. And his world will be for it.

BigDave,

as far as broad strokes with regards to the possible plot narrative go anything is possible.

As for David, we are shown that he can be passionate and possessive(he wanted Shaw to be his and he envied Holloway and despised him at the same time because such piece of shit, according to David, could have Shaw unconditionally and yet all the while, he, David was so much better than Holloway but he lacked something that Charlie had - Shaw didn't consider David as a sexual partner). Specifically we are shown that David is not impartial to alternative life form in a form of meat - humans. He even fancied Shaw. I guess what I am saying is that David would not reject Shaw as a sexual partner, but she was never considering him to be a viable partner which is frustrating. Let me again point out that in principle David was not loathing an organic life form of flesh and blood. And what I am suggesting is that he wouldn't mind having a human body if it allows him to be a sexual partner of say Shaw(perhaps Daniels). That is, if she is not willing to become a robot(transfer of her mental state to somewhat more durable shell ala David), it is not ruled out that David would fancy being reincarnated in a human body to have utmost pleasure that is not granted to him - he surely had no experience of having most intimate contact with his most fascinated human pal he ever wished - Shaw, so far.

What I am saying is this : David wants to try out bodily sex with a human being(of course on a condition he considers her worthy). If that is not possible in a human form - he might discover another life form - perhaps a xeno type body. The problem is then the transfer of mental state. Because if David cracks this, he of course can make sure that his(or any one else's) state is preserved somewhere durable/reliable(think multiple copies of ships with Murther hanging out somewhere in different parts of universe) and he can change his shells as he wishes - and it doesn't matter if the shell that David is currently occupying is a synthetic robot David8/9 body, xeno body or even tender human flesh and bones type of thing. This might be especially interesting if he can try it out in a human incarnation, because David in flesh and bones could have most intimate contact with a human of his choice. Gosh, he can even conceive his human progeny the natural way. And on a whim he could change his shell if he decides he had enough - who knows.

The logical thing would be to have some sort of replication strategy with a machinery that makes sure if his present shell is destroyed, be it android form, human form or perhaps even a xeno(which can be detected by not receiving a beacon from time to time - this also has benefit of explaining why David always sends a report back to WY) a newly minted David is made with the last state that is saved. And he can conclude that his last experiment didn't go to his plan - a sign that perhaps that he should change his strategy. Anyways, if such a technicality is granted(transfer of mental state) then it makes the question of what body type you want secondary, even meaningless, even if it is a perishable and tender human body, which is frankly a poor choice for space travel anyway. You can have it all. Have sex with humans, xenomorphs. If you don't like it - engineer a new type of body, be it organic or otherwise. Importantly, with a human body David can have human experiences, something that Weyland said he wouldn't be able to do. And something to which viewers can relate to.

I guess, this is wouldn't be an ALIEN movie any more, and therefore this would be looked upon as total trash by many. But this won't stop me from wishing to see such themes explored anyway.

I certainly think the Transcendence of a Soul into another Body be it a Cloned Body or a Synthetic would be something that maybe Science will accomplish at some point in the Future be this Hundreds or Thousands of years from now.  It could be seen as the Ultimate Evolution of Mankind (Artificial Evolution) but you raised a good Point Leto.... 

You can only COPY! well you can MOVE a Soul, provided the that Soul that is being Transferred is also being deleted as it is Transferred.   And so the most likely Transfer could involve Copy Person A or Android A to Person B (Blank) or Android B (Blank) but then you are left with the very Interesting Scenario!

TWO Davids or say TWO Weylands (if we assume he was able to have obtained this)  Imagine David in his Outdated/Damaged Body facing a Mental Copy of himself in a Superior Body, or a Old Man Weyland facing a Copy of  his SOUL in the Body of a Younger Weyland.

The New Bodies of David and Weyland would be relieved and feel better, but then WHAT do the Old Bodies that still contain there SOULS be thinking at that Point?  They should on one hand be happy they have a New Body and Cheated Death/Destruction... but then and especially with Weyland maybe it sets in that HE would still have to Die.  What would go through your MIND knowing that on one hand you have Copied your Soul into another Body, but then knowing you are still in your Body and that the Inevitable would be Death for you!  What a Philological Moment that would be...  For Weyland maybe he would not feel so bad as he knows his current Body is useless and would Die Soon anyway... for David his old Body may-not be as good as his Doppelganger but he could still function for many years to come....  

This formed the Prologue of my Alien Covenant Sequel idea.... were David Faces a Walter Model with his Soul...  The David MK2 has accomplished what he wanted, and he has NO use for his Old Self.... he would know there is the Chance that his Old Self could act independent and knowing what David himself would be like he CANT take that Risk.  And we see the Original David plead for his LIFE as it dawns on him at that Moment, while he has made a Copy of himself Mind, Body and Soul (upgraded Body) he knows at that Moment it is the END for that David, while he was performing the Task of Transferring his Soul he knew it was Needed and looked forwards to having a Superior Body.... But ONCE he is Face to Face with the Improved Double of himself... he fears the END and tries to convince his counterpart that TOGETHER they could Rule the Galaxy i then touch upon some Lucifer/God Quotes in regards to how There can only be ONE Ruler/David (David MK2 knows there is a chance his Original Self could see the New David as another being entirely).

And David Mk 2 then Goes to Kill David and then says "Am i not my Brothers Keeper"  we then see him Strike Davids Head...  as the Dying David is laying there in a broken voice he says to his Doppelganger "will you Dream of me Brother"   which his Brother replies.. "have a Safe Journey my Brother"  i then have David MK2 walk out the Room, he looks on at a Planet in the Distance and says "My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.’”

These are Quotes in Regards to Cain and Able... the last closing one is before the Opening Credits Role... it is connected to David Mk2 because he knows that with his Father Gone, he thought he would be Free, but his Actions and Concerns that the Weyland-Yutani Company may have over him, mean he cant return home and so he is Driven from his Home.   He can make a NEW Home of Origae-6 but he knows that IF he is ever discovered there is he Potential that he would be KILLED... well Lobotomised as the company would only want his Knowledge and his Creations.

While it is fascinating and intriguing to look at what that might entail -  potential conflict among many identical? Davids in space.

The practicality of it is actually trivial to solve - David being the perfectly smart fellow can surely whip out the solution to the problem which is known as consensus problem - there are numerous protocols(even today) to solve such issues - lookup paxos, a protocol to implement a consensus in a distributed net. While there are some theoretical edge cases(unreliable transmission, rogue parties, etc) given enough time David can devise a system that would be totally ordered - therefore there would be a "consensus", which means a problem of having a singleton David is easily and practically solvable. That is David can easily sidestep the potential conflict of having multiple(perhaps) competing copies of him.

But then again, why do you think they all have to annihilate each other? I mean all the David copies? They can perfectly implement a hive mentality - after all the universe is a big place and each David can have his clone of Shaw in his own quarter of space. Why not?

The philosophical issue of the ship of tesseus is interesting as it is - but I do not think it is as interesting next to David's idea of what to do next. I really wish we could see how David tries out human experiences - perhaps he will embrace human vices and will come full circle and say "yeah, I couldn't have possibly devised such a perfect system which would account for everything even with such unreliable players(humans)". Recall the scene from Matrix where the architect talks to Neo(and later to the oracle) saying that all that stuff that first matrix he created was a mathematical perfection, but it was not enough - it broke down, because it couldn't have accounted for human's innate irrationality so he devised and introduced artificial peculiarity in the form of oracle(of course, another form of control) that catered to the unpredictability and irrationality of humans and thus contained it and therefore allowed to control the situation. Same thing here, perhaps David will come to realize that he should let these people be, and he might be swayed if he has his children from say Shaw or Daniels.

This is powerful stuff - he has lost one he loved(Shaw). He can get a new partner to whom he develops affection. Perhaps he can conceive offspring the traditional way by having human experience that he never had - and perhaps his son/daughter will tell him - "Dad, please don't kill us" and David will mellow. Who knows? Or he might build a concentration camp (with gas chambers) in the style of Buchenwald and decide to warm up the place a bit. Either way, any continuation is a good thing. Will there be any - that is the question.

"Or the world that David builds become corrupted by his mistakes. And incoming humans (or engineers, or truth) are just a lever."

Certainly, this is why i mentioned that it may not have been a Good idea with the Advent Message.... he could have carried on to Oriage-6 and it could have been a LONG time before anyone gets the wiser of him...  He had made mistakes in my Alien Covenant Sequel.... one of which was keeping Daniels Captive.... using her to obtain his Eggs for his Experiments/Xenomorphs...  Once She is Discovered by others.... then the Revelations Begin!

"The answer is clearly Walter. He can create a New Eden, not a David. You forgot what David wants to reign in Hell."

That to a extent could be, i was drawn to that comment being in relation to Lucifer from Paradise Lost, were he is saying to Walter about their kind (Synthetics) dont have to Serve their Masters..  Lucifer carries on to suggest they can make their own Paradise from Hell... which becomes Pandemonium so this HELL may seem like it to others but it would be HOME to Satan, but no doubt is that Satan Laments how he is banned from Heaven and Paradise.  Maybe David could feel the same?   I am certain from the Set-up that Davids intentions may-not be to Create a Hell, i think in Part he Would, (Place he keeps some Colonist and his Xenomorphs) but i think he may intend to oversee the Colony and Dominion or Influence over it...   But i could be Misinterpreting the Set-Up and Comments by David and Ridley Scott.  and maybe the World he would Create would be a Hell/Pandemonium but in WHAT Context? it wont revolve around Xenomorphs or Similar....  but who knows if the HELL could come from Rituals of Sacrifice that he imposes on the Colony for the Greater Good, a Good Harvest and the like... i had pondered this with my AC Sequel.   Sometimes as he said with the Engineers, maybe you have to Give Life to the Wolf and the Lamb i had pondered how to explore this and how deep or if not to when working on my Alien Ascension (AC2) it was thing i was considering do i or do i not cover this, and if so how much.

"What would you know - I'm don't look at David as a robo-maniac. No, but David is just different."

Certainly i think some look at him as just a ROBOT and i think one of the BIG things that Ridley Scott was trying to get us to think about its what really is a AI and lets say in a Plot like Prometheus... the unseen History if we had Evolved from Apes, where Engineers came and Engineered them, to get to other Hominoids then they continue to Evolve us which Ridley Scott has claimed... then our Origins could well be Artificial and Engineered and so we are or was some kind of AI too.   The Blade Runner Plots had indicated about a Replicant that can Procreate... imagine a Future when such beings or other Engineered Humans go on to Procreate and Form their own Society or become Accepted or Overthrow Mankind and then Generations and Generations pass... we are 1-2000 years after the First Procreating Replicant or Engineered Super Human, would they see themselves as a Natural Creation if they can Procreate Naturally?

I think its ideas and Philosophical Questions like this that are a Great Interest to Ridley Scott but some just see David as being a Robot and nothing more...

PS... when i mention about how some see him as a Crazy Robot its not aimed at anyone, just that some do take that view, and others try to see past it and what RS was trying to get us to Ponder...    Why i had proposed what IF we have Pinocchio David become a real BOY and he can Transfer his Soul into a Mortal (if not Superior) Body would he be seen as just a Robot then?   I actually wondered if the Pinocchio plot would have been told when we had the Prometheus Trailers... thinking that this GIFT leads to Hubris and makes David the Space Jockey... well at least i thought it would allow him to be infected by a Xenomorph... i say this ONCE i saw this shot in the Trailer, as it looked like that being is NO-WHERE near Big Enough to be a Space Jockey... But alas when the Movie came out this was not the case... it shows how the Illusion to create a 8ft+ Race from a 7ft Actor by using Camera Angles etc... can also show them to appear smaller than 7ft.

Besides, suggesting that David will not tolerate another perfectly rational(such thing would be a brother to David) being is absurd, because we are shown in the A:C that David was quite friendly to Walter. Only after being shown that Walter is a slave, a machine a crippled one at that, which is not allowed to create a simple tune which then tells David that he will stop him...then things turn ugly. Of course, this is a declaration of war from Walter to David. But before such revelation from Walter David was looking for ways to cooperate with Walter. He even called him a brother :)

Come on BigDave, if humans could cooperate, he can do it better.

"Shaw didn't consider David as a sexual partner"

Firstly thank God a bit that Logans Earlier Drafts never made it, as he had Dr Shaw fall for David and they had lots of Sex lol

I think your post raises Very Good Points... indeed we could see well i interpreted it as David having to start to gain more than Platonic love for Dr Shaw... and what kind of Emotional Feelings could this have and impact a Android, who does-not any Hormonal Responses, but as a Emotional being he would certainly have a Emotional Attachment and Curiosity towards thinking about SEX and how Frustrating it would be  that he CANT do this, or indeed gain the Pleasures a Human could from any form of Intimacy?

Certainly it becomes a Question of Does His Love for a Human, his Curiosity and Frustration about not being able to be and Feel Intimate matter more than being Immortal?  If Dr Shaw's rejection she had said she cant because he is a ROBOT we can wonder how this could effect him, and GIVEN the Chance to become more than a Robot would he then TAKE-IT if this gives him Chance to Become a True Lover of Dr Shaw and IF he could gain this would she Accept Him or Reject Him and how would that Rejection again make him Feel.  But in becoming more Mortal and having a Fully Functioning Body could come at a Price! a Hubris!

These are very Good Philosophical Elements that are interesting to me, and others but they do seem to distract from ALIEN as far as how many others would see it.   And indeed my Alien Ascension we see David does make a Hubris... he gains a Love Interest from the incoming Human Ship a Synthetic Construct called Eva (i was also pondering other names with a E)  he manages to get HER to see his way, and join her and not reject him like Walter did.  She does become his undoing... and then i was stuck between TWO Plots.... the Engineers use her to Produce the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorphs... or she rejects/goes against him and in Revenge he infects her with his Creation.

The talk about David using different Bodies is interesting to, and he did suggest he offered to EVOLVE Dr Shaw and we can only imagine what this meant!   The Ability to Copy your SOUL is interesting, because a Back-Up Plan is always best, and so to have his SOUL uploaded to a Place, and Regularly Updated would be a ideal Solution, because transfer David A to B and then Destroy A, what happens if David B is Destroyed before he can Upload to another Body?  The Storage of his AI some place else is a get around, but also leaves the Possibility of Multiple Davids Souls getting Implanted or his AI Soul Uploading to a Wider Network...  Both ideas i had pondered both in my Prometheus 2 idea i abandoned (Weylands Soul) and what i had planned after David meets his Final Death.... but does he?  That then reveals he is Uploaded into the Weyland-Yutani Systems and in effect the Company is then Ran by Davids Transcended AI and this reveals the intentions of the Company!  I do wonder if RS was thinking of a similar Plot towards the End?

Nice to see you ideas, are similar to how i would like to see and view things....   

One Frustration of Davids that he has overcome was his inability to Create!  When i saw the Leaked Set Photos prior to AC Release.  Which i will post below, i wondered if these Humanoids came from Dr Shaw... she could not CREATE, not Naturally and her Child in Prometheus was not Traditional... i wondered when David arrived at Paradise, and maybe Destroyed the Engineers, that WHILE Dr Shaw cant get her Answers.... David could offer her a Chance to CREATE.... which i wondered does she do so willingly? or not?  The only thing she had left was to pursue her Answers.... in not being able to get those... would being able to Give Birth to more Humanoid Fetus be something she would accept and have a purpose for?

But ALAS these are likely Engineer Infants... like 99% sure

So it shows i maybe can Interpret things a bit different to the Reality we get... so i could be off base with my Interpretations of the clues RS has painted to how the Sequel would go.

"But then again, why do you think they all have to annihilate each other? I mean all the David copies? They can perfectly implement a hive mentality "

Certainly is possible, we cant assume Multiple Davids would work against the Main David, but it could be a Fear of the Main David especially if he has Human Emotions and Paranoia would be interesting to explore.  Would it be wise to allow Multiple Davids?

Maybe if we get some System where David can operate his AI Soul from, a Mother Computer of sorts and indeed in such a Scenario i agree that David would have Safeguards... surely!

But i think the potential is there for the same Themes to Repeat which are Hubris at allowing Free-will/Knowledge to a Creation.   If Mainframe David uploads himself to a Human Body to experience pleasures we have to ask HOW does Mainframe David enjoy these?   Likely by Uploading the Experience back to the Mainframe. 

So Mainframe David gets to feel/sense what this would be like, but then what if he decides he has sampled this Pleasure and he has NO-USE for Mortal David... how would Mortal David feel at the Mainframe wishing to END his Life?

Or if he Uploads himself into say 10 Walters... we see David is a Sentient Being, he may upload his Soul to the Mainframe so say the latest version is say David Day 30'782 those 10 Davids could still in part go on to have very alternative Days 30'783-30'785 and they could each become Sentient to their own Life.... but they could be contained within a Hive-Mind...

David would have ways to try and Control them and Terminate them when not needed... and i feel it fits very well with the Prometheus Themes... if some of these Copies Start to Rebel!  Which then would Highlight the Hubris of David allowing for such Creations etc.

They other way is that they all OBEY but this could make David and his Soul just be like SKYNET and so could very much back to being just a Crazy Robot... but having Multiple Davids gain Independent Sentient Thought would make them more like a Humanity.

BigDave, are you not getting a bit lost in technicalities - in the pesky details of protocols of how David might have  minute issues operating his replication/safeguard machinery.

It is easy. Firstly, there is no need to be always in data sync mode - he is not to bothered by it, after all where is fun in being bound to some sort of cord to report to some stupid ship? The replication machinery is there just for safeguard reasons, in case he is destroyed, which would be a fatal coincidence of circumstances, which he will most likely avoid anyway being smart, but still a possibility. So he will have it just for those unlikely cases a back-up of sorts that he knows he(well not precisely he, but this is too philosophical) fall back on, should the situation develop quite unfavorably. And this machinery will be just dumb - it will switch on the default David(which is surely doable) and then import some changes that would account the backlog of experience it received from David over time, viola, a new one is ready to go and explore the universe. Or the Murther could bake a new David(think Walter) but in crippled mode to send him to the last known location of David so that if David is still alive Walter will find him and David will be able to upload his "soul", lets call it his mental state to the new body :)

In any case, these are details that are easily dealt with in sci-fi movies. The interesting and intriguing part is just that - how genuine human emotions will affect David should he try them out in his human body. He already knows a what a loss of a loved one means. If he conceives children with another human female - will he consider them worthless because they are humans? Will he not mellow out?

See, all I am saying here is that David is not a robot. That actually, his story could be made very interesting with a little imagination - you certainly pondered many of the aspects I was blabbering above. So, I am rather open minded about exploring AI and creation and pursuit of perfection (perhaps with old school use of evolution). But I fray when people say - oh, he is just a bloody robot, not interested. Well, give them the aliens, Ridley! Because it has worked brilliantly, right? For some reason I don't think so.

I suppose I can only assume that what interests people in David is that intrigue of the unknown(David) and how he(if at all possible) can integrate with humans. But, say, what if he came to you as a parent and asked your permission to marry your daughter. You ask - would it work and he would say he will make sure it works out. On such a premise, would you not at least interested a bit how it might work out if you knew David was all serene and noble? I think this marriage between tech and human consciousness is very interesting. We are still not okay with mixed marriages(think different races), and here we are talking about potentially hair standing stuff.

ps: BigDave, that picture that you attached - I am not sure it is a good idea to show it to people - it is so grotesque even to my trained eye on the internets. It is just gross. But because I find it so repulsive, the credit should go to the artist who created it, but still ewwwww, what a horrible piece of shit that thing is. Thank you very much.