ALIEN: Back to the Future Part 2

It sounds like Jack Paglen's draft at least started out with The Crossing. In hindsight, maybe it would have been better to continue with his draft.

Well it would be interesting to see some of the Earlier Drafts, by Crossing i assume you mean were we left off at the END of Prometheus...

I think we can only Speculate what his Draft involved.

All that seems Certain is that David and Dr Shaw at some point END up on a World Connected to the Engineers, where they discover these beings are NOT Benevolent (do they meet any?)  These beings are NOT Gods...   Dr Shaw still wants her Answers.... WHY was we Created, WHY did the Engineers Want to Destroy/Abandon us?  and WHO Created them.

What we further know is that Dr Shaw would eventually have to Put David back together, knowing the Risk, but he Persuades her and ONCE his Head Goes back on.. he is DANGEROUS...  (and so Potentially could do what ever he wants... WHAT his Agenda is... is the Big Question).

Finally he is BRINGING HELL with him.... (Cargo) and what happens if this infects a God or Machine!

Thats the Nuts and Bolts of it all... HOW they explored that is the Question.... and raises the Problems they Faced...

*Would a Movie about David and Dr Shaw be enough?

*How would they survive if FACED with a Species who are Not Benevolent?

Dr Shaw and David VS  Thousands, Millions of Evil Technologically Advanced SOBS!

If we are to continue with a Non Benevolent Race... was RS referring to those LV-223 beings or the Engineers that David and Dr Shaw would find should they GO to the Engineers Home-world?

Then IF they discover such BEINGS... what kind of Interaction takes place?  David having to roughly act as Translator?

ONE Human, ONE Android and a Number of Engineers were David has to Translate and we get Sub-Titles.. could be a Movie a lot of people would not be interested but the DIE-HARD Prometheus Fans..

So this was ONE Problem they Faced.... a Problem my Prometheus 3 idea (my Prometheus 2 was mainly Not set around Engineers or David/Dr Shaw).  Had a clever way to address!

A way that would have NOT left them Forced to Introduce Humans from Earth! Thus bringing the Engineers Home-world closer to Home!

Nope my Place David and Dr Shaw arrived at was FAR FAR away!

This may sound funny but it is meant to be serious. I really hate subtitles- I hate reading while missing on screen action. I think David might make a version of a translator so we could skip that mess. Here is one of the best sci fi examples of how to get around that whole thing- only 1 minute:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWqHkYtREAE

Ha ha... Indeed....

There are ways they could have gone, i for one found the Potential for Humans to just be on EARTH to be limited in scope of Prometheus... either some Humans were taken from Earth or Humans came from another Place in the Galaxy are where i would have taken the Story.

Also the Plot indicates the Engineers had influenced our Culture, and so Language is likely influenced by them too, so ONE or more of the Ancient Languages could be spoken on more than Earth Thousands of Years Ago.

Dr Shaw in her Studies would surely Understand some Ancient Languages.   But we also could have a Technology the Engineers  or other Humans have that would allow Dr Shaw to understand them...

Or even have some Device or Spiritual Transfer Method (Vulcan Mind Meld) to allow Dr Shaw to understand the Language of any Humanoids they Discovered.

They would then NOT have a Franchise that Conflicts with the Alien Franchise...

The Potential was there to give Great Depth to the Vastness of Space these Engineers had worked in....

The RED DOT is about where our Solar System is and Zeta 2 would also Fall within this Zone....   They could have had David and Dr Shaw travel to any Further Area of Space for example any of the GREEN DOTS.

Thus taking us to a World that is FAR beyond the Space Travel Scope of Mankind Circa Alien Franchise.  To a Place that is 10'000-40'000 Light Years from Earth

Thus allowing them to Explore the Engineers World without any Conflict with the ALIEN Franchise... and by the Time David and Dr Shaw have got to this place and Caused CHAOS.. any Aftermath where would be Engineers on a Warpath would seek Destruction to Earth could take place in a Time Way Past the Events of Aliens or even Alien Resurrection.

The Plot of Prometheus expands our Engineers to the Furthest Reaches of the Galaxy and BEYOND... is Earth the only other Place were we have Humanoids or even Humans the Engineers have interacted with?

The Problem with this would be the Language Barrier but we can at least speculate the Engineers would speak various Ancient Languages and so some of the Oldest Languages on Earth could be shown to exist at some point on other Worlds.

Or there are ways to get around Translations..

The PLOT of Alien Covenant to have the Engineers Home-world also located within that RED DOT has made them Write themselves into a Corner!

If you was the Engineers and invested a lot of Time into the Human Race.. on Earth... would you just Abandon it all?

If the Problem came down to Mankind not behaving in a way that you intended... this comes from Upbringing, Interaction and Knowledge which Corrupts.....

I think it makes sense for the Engineers to have collected some Humans to Breed to make Children and then Raise these Children with a FRESH-START where they are not Corrupted by the ways of Earths Men!

You could then attempt to Destroy Earth... and failing that just WASH your hands with those Primitives because without your Help (Engineers) they would NEVER advance beyond what you have taught (Iron Age) and so you leave them to ROT and Just Kill Each other.... as your Species have Been Involved in Many Worlds and so the LOSS of just ONE World to their Corrupt Inhabitants is NO Big Loss.

You have a number of other Worlds, and Human Colonies to watch over and NOT let the same problems arise again... Let those Mortals on Earth ROT in their Stone Buildings with their Crude Tools.   For they will NEVER master the Wonders that your kind have (Engineers) For without the Engineers in the first place... Mankind would be just as Cave-Men and without the Engineers NOW... we shall be Stuck on our Rock FOREVER!

Or so in HUBRIS they thought!

This route makes sense and opens up many a Potential...

Especially what happens when Dr Shaw and David turn up to a World that has Humans who are Unaware that they are NOT alone in the Galaxy?

But.... ALAS!

It would be very interesting to read Jack Paglen's draft. I wonder if it's possible to get it somehow? I suppose 20th Century Fox has the legal rights to it?

I think that AC had a kind of logical continuation from Prometheus. David developed towards this even in Prometheus and the relationship with Shaw was doomed and her fate sealed when she attached his head. The doppelganger motif is always interesting and the plot was generally good. I don’t mind David dabbling in creation either (as long as he doesn’t end up as the Space Jockey).

However, the movie was too much about action and a heroine who is like superman. They wanted to please the Aliens fans - not the Alien fans.

Apart from having interesting characters and very good actors, Alien was creepy and scary (which AC was not). The monster was lurking and sneaking through dark hallways and vents. In AC there was action and a rapid tempo. In order to create a scary atmosphere, you have to slow the tempo down and let the camera slowly move through the dark hallways.

So, I don’t think it’s the plot which is the problem with AC, it’s how it’s done.

Certainly i think it would be Interesting to see how far and to what Extent things had Changed with Alien Covenant.  As it was the Summer of 2015 when John Logan had came in to adapt Dante Harpers earlier Paradise into Paradise Lost work which then November changed to become Alien Covenant.

Micheal Green gets Credit in those Drafts, but not Jack Paglen who had began working on a Earlier Project before Green came in Late 2014.

So it would be interesting to see how much different the Earlier Ideas were, i think Ridley Scott had indicated a bit about where it was going, which seemed to be Quite Different to what we ended up with.

Regarding AC i think it was not a Bad Idea Plot wise, i think the David is the Creator Curveball was a Mistake and trying to go a Direct Prequel Route (so that without the Events of Alien Covenant we would not have ALIEN).

I think the Execution was not that Good and the Big Problem was they was trying to get Too Much in a under 2 Hour Movie and so Short Cuts, and Pacing had to be taken into account which is why some Scenes where just RUSHED.

I know the Changes came out of FOX feeling that maybe they should have gave more Clues/Answers in Prometheus, and maybe Fans would like to see Xenomorphs again...

But they could have gave a Sequel that could have gave more Clues to the Xenomorph and remain it as Ancient, and introduce Xenomorphs without having to EFFECT where Dr Shaw and David are going.

Problem would be how do they involved DAVID? it seemed they felt that David and Dr Shaw (in earlier drafts) had to be part of a Prometheus Sequel.

In Hindsight they should have given us a Alternative Sequel and go to LV-223 that would have had more CLUES to the Derelict, introduced Xenomorphs or something Very Similar... and allowed them to CLOSE the Door to ALIEN.

They could have Cast Fassbender as another David Model... he could have been a Survivor who then at the END of the Movie would want to be off to where the Engineers Came from LOOKING to Destroy them... (get Revenge)

They could have then had the Next Movie be about David and Dr Shaw as they arrive at a Engineer World that is FAR FAR away, it may even take a LONG Time..... and it could be open that after these events.... we have a Sequel where the OTHER incoming David is on his way!

But what about Human Characters.... again do we assume Earth is the only Place that had Humans prior to the dawn of Mankind on Earths expeditions into Space...  So it just took a bit more CLEVER thinking to come up with Alternative Stories than we got..

For example you Never had to go and do a Direct Literal Prequel to Cover the Derelict or Xenomorph Origins.. a Re-Visit to LV-223 where more Exploration is done with less Ambiguity... then show a Discovery of some Eggs and Xenomorphs or VERY Similar, thats all that would have been needed.

Oh WELL....  it may seem i put a lot of counter arguments in support of the Eggs not being Ancient... this is NOT to suggest this is the route i am Fond Of..

It should have been KEPT to Ancient and either keep it a Mystery or Find other ways to give the Answers without having to Force them within a Time Frame of Post 2105.

But ALAS.... 

Well, W-Y would have examined what happened to Sir Peter Weyland, Miss Vickers and the expensive ship, wouldn’t they? It seems logical that they would investigate LV-223 before sending colonists to Origae-6?

It would be interesting to go back to LV-223. They would find the body of Sir Peter Weyland. Would the Deacon still be alive? What’s in the other pyramid mounds?

Well, W-Y would have examined what happened to Sir Peter Weyland, Miss Vickers and the expensive ship, wouldn’t they?

I'm not sure they would bother?..If my boss flew off to Africa (to do something and crashed the expe$ive company jet).....Doubt I'd even fly down to check the crash site. I/we've got control of the company! 'Time to implement the changes it drastically needs!', "Higher wages! more transparency!...'Sad about the old man and his daughter but we've a company to run.....Now our first change...'

I would love a return to LV-223 But I think this opens a can of worms?

I would watch a LIVE CAM of LV-223 (probably night and day!) Don't need a scripted movie...Just watch the razor storms roll across the planet and a couple shots of the tombs....Hoping to catch a glimpse of movement!

Did you see that!!?....Something near the escape pod moved?!?...........probably just the wind?

MonsterZero

What about a pending lawsuit concerning insurance money? In a way, it was sabotage of the ship where Janek went against company orders (Miss Vickers').

Surely, there would be an investigation . . .

I think Certainly there would have at Some Point been a Mission or Investigation to inspect what had happened to the Ship and its Crew.....   The only way something would be Brushed Under the Carpet would be by someone WHO would Benefit from the Death of Peter Weyland and Miss Vickers.

The other Board Members would likely had known that Weyland does-not have Many Years left in him, so it was only a Matter of Time... so for anyone else at the Company then having Miss Vickers simply Disappear would then Open the Door to Benefit someone else.

If we consider that, then who ever would GAIN could certainly had done a Cover-Up, a Sham Investigation so they could then Take-Over or Benefit from the Company.

They may have NO Concern to what happened to Prometheus and WHO-KNOWS what Officially Weyland had told them about the Mission.  They would only be interested in the ASSETS that Mr Weyland had.

But certainly in Light of the Advent Video by David, then it would be VERY likely the Company would surely Investigate LV-223.

"I would love a return to LV-223 But I think this opens a can of worms?"

I actually think it would Provide Answers, by Virtue of LV-223 being there it is a Can of Worms... a Mission to LV-223 could Conclude with its Destruction which would then make LV-223 something that would NOT Conflict the Franchise.

"They would find the body of Sir Peter Weyland"

It depends on WHICH of the Complexes they Visit! do they go to the Life-Boat, where did Dr Shaws Warning come from etc.

This image is intended to show that the Prometheus Wreckage and Life-Boat too are before the First Temple which the Prometheus Crew Visited.  We see from the Ending that Dr Shaw is heading from Near the First Temple Complex and NOT from the Juggernaught, so she LIKELY had gone to the Wreckage or Life-Boat First.

So it would be Likely the Message was Sent from the Life-Boat so that surely would be a Place any incoming Mission would Investigate, but then they would also likely Check Out the Crashed Juggernaut.

So YES i think its Highly Likely they would Discover Mr Weyland's Body.

"Would the Deacon still be alive?"

This depends on HOW-LONG does the Deacon Live, we simply dont know, or HOW it could Procreate so its UNKNOWN if they would come Across the Deacon, given it could be Many Years after the Deacon was Born.  If the Deacon dies then what becomes of its Body?

We also dont know HOW-FAR the Deacon could Wonder Off and so its UNKNOWN where it eventually went or would be.  But i think if the Crew go into the First Temple or Crashed Ship maybe they could come across Similar by Virtue of Contact with the Pathogen... also have to Consider the Hammerpedes.

"What’s in the other pyramid mounds?"

We can only Speculate, i would assume Similar things maybe happened in those places? It seems for some Reason that Dr Shaw and David were Heading to the 2nd Complex, and we do see that David had Bombarded the Engineers on Planet 4 with a Cargo that was on the Ship they had obtained.  There appears to be more than ONE Hanger per Complex, but maybe Dr Shaw felt the First Complex was Compromised to Risk going back to...

But the other Juggernaut they obtained also has a Bio-Weapon and we could Speculate that maybe each Complex has a Variant of the Black Goo? 

Maybe each Complex has more than ONE variation inside?

"Prometheus. David developed towards this even in Prometheus and the relationship with Shaw was doomed and her fate sealed when she attached his head"

This Certainly would be TRUE... before we got Alien Covenant, RS had said that Eventually Dr Shaw would put David back together again, but once she does this he would be Very Dangerous, but he was also Very Convincing.

So Ultimately once he is in ONE piece then Dr Shaw is at the Whim of WHATEVER it is that David wants, especially once she is in Cryo-Sleep then David is Free to do or Go where-ever he wants... HE would surely Care for his OWN Agenda..

But instead of Messing About on LV-223 or going to Earth with a Engineer Ship, he does indeed go to a Engineer World, The Crossing implies that David discovers more about the Engineers, their ways, which maybe could Influence the reason he Bombarded them!

The other Factor to Consider is that David sees himself as ALIVE, he would want to Survive and if he LOVED his Travel Companion then he would want to ensure that SHE also Survives.

He would NOT care much about WHAT she wanted to Find Out, the MOST Important thing would be SURVIVAL... so for that he could maybe NOT risk going down to see the Engineers as you cant GUARANTEE they would Roll Out the Red Carpet and Accept them..... never mind give them Answers.

It is likely that he FELT from the remnants of the Engineers City he could maybe Discover Answers for Dr Shaw.  He could likely then TRY and offer Dr Shaw something she could GAIN from all of this... IF he was unable to get any Answers from what remained.

I think it would have been Highly Likely Regardless of IF we never had Alien Covenant but a Prometheus 2, that David would have Destroyed the Engineers to ensure his and Dr Shaws Survival.

Then i would assume David would want to have Dr Shaw as a Companion but it would be more for his OWN needs than Dr Shaw's own Happiness if he felt that She did-not want to be his Companion or agree with what ever Plans that he has... its likely that David would TURN on her.

@chli "I think that AC had a kind of logical continuation from Prometheus. David developed towards this even in Prometheus and the relationship with Shaw was doomed and her fate sealed when she attached his head. The doppelganger motif is always interesting and the plot was generally good. I don’t mind David dabbling in creation either (as long as he doesn’t end up as the Space Jockey)."

That is only your opinions, wishes, and what you expect from the genre. Other disagree with you. Bet let's take into the inventory what we know. Shaw was killed because the studios asked so not because was inevitable. Why, probably they thought they would make more money. It also made David more villainous in a cheap way. He does not grow any bit in Prometheus he hates humans right from the get go, but somehow is stuck on Shaw. On the commentary track Spaiths says that he sees in her and her man some kind of equals because of there smarts (not very well conveyed on Charlie). In Covenant he considers himself better than humans partly because he is Immortal, after more or less dying in Prometheus. He becomes also a rapist (yes Big Dave he sexually assault Daniels) to explain why the Xenomorph is a rape monster and to become the new main villain.

And you know what, for me the only logical way to finish this is for David to become the Space Jockey, because of genre cliches and motifs. Of course, game novelization will be put aside and contradicted, what non-MCU directors and screenwriters have time for those? 

I think Ultimately while things had Changed from after Prometheus it was Unlikely that David would have continued to had become a Friendly Loving Robot..

The Purpose of this TOPIC would be if we could RE-DO a Prometheus Sequel and so we could IGNORE what happens in Alien Covenant like it Never Existed, hence Back to the Future as in to CHANGE.

Even when considering this i FEEL that Alien Covenant still gives us indications to a more LIKELY outcome to what David would have become..

He would have seen himself as Superior, he would only wanted to go to see these Engineers in order to see what he could GAIN that would be of Benefit to himself...

Weyland said in his Ted Talk... regarding the Future Creation of beings like David... "we are the Gods now"

The Logical Conclusion would have been David's Pursuit to become a GOD and Creator to behold the Engineers Secrets and Technology for his OWN gain.

It would not have been 100% Certain if David would have KILLED her (Dr Shaw), it would appear likely that she would have been CONCERNED and Disagree with Davids Motives and Ambition and likely that Dr Shaw would want NO PART of it..

Which i think David would not take being Turned Down, or have Dr Shaw be against his Wishes... so things LIKELY would have Turned Bad for her...

So if we got a Different Prometheus Sequel it would be likely that a Confrontation would have happened between Dr Shaw and David than any kind of Collaboration it seemed almost inevitable that David would become the Antagonist and this would NOT be too Good for Dr Shaw... this does-not mean that SHE could NOT have Escaped or Survived.  or at least attempted to Get Away from a Twisted Dr Frankenstein that David would have LIKELY had became.

I will add that indeed Ignorantguy to FIT with the Themes that appeared to be at PLAY then a Logical Conclusion could be that David becomes the Space Jockey as the Ultimate Hubris for what he had done...

The Xenomorph being Mankinds Hubris for Creating a David, and also the Engineers for Creating Mankind that lead to David...  It would therefor be Fitting that Davids Creation becomes his Ultimate Hubris too.

With a Logical Conclusion that there is NO God and NO One should PLAY God!

BigDave

But that is not the conclusion, as those who are truly guilty are barely punished. Weyland would have died in a matter of days so he asked for more life as Batty and for that he was punished. How is humanity even to blame as a whole in a hyper-capitalist world where evil corporations do shitty stuff? What could they do? Shaw was punished for being kind if anything, which none of the so called gods were. Even the current Engineers are they still guilty for stuff that happened 2000 years ago (to the extreme an anti-Semite would say that current Jews are they blame for the death of Christ, which is stupid)?

PS. I never said that David should be a good robot, but I don't think that you can have a good series with a good guy without a given name (I dare you to say her name without Googles).

The answer to why the W-Y Corp wasn’t interested in finding out what happened to Sir Peter Weyland might be that the Weyland Corp was taken over by the Yutani Corp (2099) with Hideo Yutani as CEO. On the other hand, for about 5 years Weyland Corp did nothing to find out . . .

About the body of Mr Weyland, the Deacon might have munched on the body. In some novels, the xenomorphs eat meat and when the food supply is gone they get into hibernation until new victims appear.

About the complexes, perhaps there are eggs instead of pathogen in one of them? But that would rule out David as the creator . . .

@Ignorantguy

I see what you mean, i Understand that it was Weyland Who Created David, but what i meant was in General the Pursuit of Science for Mankind could become a Hubris, its Unlikely that Peter Weyland was the only Human and his Company the only one that was trying to Further AI and Robotics, it was Weyland who had became a Pioneer with David though.  I would however think that Weyland was maybe NOT doing all of this for the Best for Mankind, i suspect some Personal Gain was his Motive... thats just a Opinion though.

"PS. I never said that David should be a good robot"

I am sorry if you thought i was implying that, i was not pointing it out as such (in response to you),it was just that i was saying that its LIKELY the Prequels would not have gave us a Story about David becoming a Good Robot with the Best Intentions for Mankind...  i feel it would have been about him trying to become a God/King as he would have inherited a Megalomaniac Personality from his Father.

Regarding Dr Shaw, she did show David kindness, her Downfall was her Stubbornness in her Faith and being Naive.   She surely would have known their was a Chance that she would END UP being Dead anyway... but her Faith would have gave her some Comfort that a BETTER place awaited her.  (Unless she got some Faith Shattering Revelations).

She had put a lot of Trust in David... but Ultimately she had NO Alternative... she would have had to WAIT for a Rescue Mission, where she would have under 2 years so Unless Technology Improves she would be Dead before any arrive.

Or she would have to TRUST that Robot... even if she wanted to go back to Earth.... Once David was back in ONE piece she is at his Mercy/Intentions.

But she had a BIGGER objective... she wanted Answers from those Engineers, even if the THEY would NEVER give her any and KILL her... she would know thats the Risk she would take... she would also know that before she could even GET to the Engineers, she would have to Rely on David being Completely Honest and that he would KEEP his side of the Bargain..

But she rather do that, than just SIT on LV-223, which if she did there is a Good Chance the Deacon could have got to her.

Its Tragic in the End for her... as it seemed it was NOT a case of being Naive, as she Genuinely thought she had WON over David, that he was actually only the way he was due to his Treatment by others, and so she felt that he actually would NOT harm her...

I think all along there are clear seeds that once FREE you really could NOT be Trusting David... he Cares only for himself.

"About the complexes, perhaps there are eggs instead of pathogen in one of them? But that would rule out David as the creator . . ."

It seems they Certainly had Experimented with Various Organisms that relate to the Xenomorph, we cant rule out them Storing Eggs, or even that Eggs was the Basis for the Experiments.

Going back to LV-223 especially Directly after Prometheus would have allowed for the connections and horrors to be found to have many a Option on HOW to explore them.

Why in HINDSIGHT... i feel in Reaction to the Fans... they should have done a Prometheus Sequel that went back to LV-223 that was more like a Alien Engineers...  giving more Clues, and introducing some Alien Creatures that Attack the Humans...   and then we could CLOSE the DOOR to ALIEN.

Then after that they could have Released a Direct Prometheus Sequel that would go where David and Dr Shaw are going and take us to a FAR FAR away place that does-not have to Worry about what Alien Fans want/expect.

Surely, there would be an investigation . . .

Probably...I could see them sending an unmanned probe OR A synthetic to check the crash, in a really small cheap vessel....or have a ship in the area(to like Alien!!)

Opening credits scene: Razor storms and tombs...Dark and foreboding... 

Opening scene: A small spacecraft landing on LV-223 A synth exits and starts it's survey.....

This android lies completely...reports back false data. Tells Weyland Corp nothing. Only about the misfortune of the crew and the faulty landing node ...Nothing about the tombs.

It's name is Ash.

MonsterZero

As I see it, Ash followed Special Order 937, that is, he did what the company wanted. Had he been on LV-223 (before he becomes the science officer on the Nostromo), the company would already have the pathogen and they probably wouldn't need to search for the xenomorph.

BigDave

A return to LV-223 after Prometheus might have done the trick. But if, in the next film, we follow David and Shaw, wouldn't the problems be the same? Wouldn't David develop to a vengeful demon anyway?

I would think its likely that David more than likely would have became a Antagonist if we got a Prometheus 2 i think that there would have been something that would have made his Wires Crossed, be it the Engineers saw him as Worthless and Admired Dr Shaw so he becomes Rejected/Insignificant again, and Jelous.

Certainly he would still want to become the God/King and use the Engineers Technology for his own Gain!

To be fair with a Sequel and its maybe WHY they had such a HARD TIME in getting a Story...  Its how do they explore a Paradise... if David and Dr Shaw land and leave the Comfort/Protection of the Ship?

Its the Number of Engineers, what they Knew about our Creation and then our Intended Destruction and how they would React with Dr Shaw and David regardless that makes for a Story thats more TRICKY to get Right.  But not Impossible to come up with something. (just it could go MANY ways and its then Which Idea to Settle on) this is WHY i abandoned my Prometheus 3 idea (Prometheus 2 was set mainly in our Solar System with NO Engineers etc).

So ALL a second Movie that went to LV-223 would have done was to FIX some of the Things and give some Fans a Prequel with more Answers and Monsters than Prometheus gave... in effect a bit of a Alien Engineers like Flick... but based from a Recovery/Investigation Mission.

So giving Fans this KIND of Movie which would be a Prequel to ALIEN but in NO-WAY is a Prequel to the Space Jockey Event... we just get more Clues/Answers,  then this SHOULD please the fans a bit who was Disappointed with Prometheus and NOT interested in David and Dr Shaw wanting to meet more Engineers for Answers in a Franchise that would STEER AWAY from Alien and the Xenomorph.

So those Fans get their FIX and more Answers..

Then a Direct Prometheus Sequel that follows David and Dr Shaw could have been made to explore something else... a Engineers/Space Jockey Spin off Franchise that has NOTHING to do with ALIEN.

In Hindsight going for TWO movies as Such...

Would have KEPT the Space Jockey Event as Ancient, maybe could have kept it a bit of Mystery or certainly drives us down a certain Path of Speculation.  Also could have gave more Clues or Full Answers to the Xenomorph and its Ancient Connection to LV-223 and also at LEAST gave Fans some similar MONSTERS on the Attack.

We THUS would not have ended up with Alien Covenant! 

We would also had seen more of Dr Shaw and the Engineers and opened up a Endless Potential to where to go NEXT!

What of the Conflict with the Franchise?

As i mentioned a while back on in the TOPIC, who is to say the Place that David and Dr Shaw would go would be WITHIN the Reach of Earths Ships?

Who is to say that they DONT arrive until after the Events of ALIENS or even Alien Resurrection?

Why they could even had gone to ANOTHER Galaxy for Answers.

But Alas it seems the Writers or those who GIVE the YES/NO could not think about such things..

Chili

'he did what the company wanted.'

My view: Synths and A.I. are working for themselves....Humans are busy with their petty lives....worried about their golf game, stock market and what their are having for dinner.

SO 937 is probably A.I. created.

Thats Absurd!!!!!

Not really ;)

I do suspect some kind of Twist was Planned to Reveal that by the Time of ALIEN the Company is being RAN by AI and Mankind are None-the-Wiser...

Maybe some Humans are in the Know, but they do so as to Benefit themselves,  maybe the AI has given them a Covenant, a agreement something for their Greedy Hands to Benefit from.

If the Plot Remains the Same that David is the Creator, then it would give more Reason for WHY it is that ASH really Admired the Xenomorph.  It was a Creation by one of his Forefathers so to Speak.

A Company Ran by AI would also help Explain the Relentless Pursuit of the Xenomorph at a Constant Folly to those who TRY..... the Human Cost maters not as Humans are In-superior and Expendable.

This Plot was what i was indicating with my Prometheus 2 i was working on in 2013, which i Lost and i Abandoned..  it would have gone the Path to show that Weylands AI Soul is running the Show!

Revelation that he had Created and Perfected David as a Experiment to Create the Ideal Vessel/Shell for a AI Soul to be Uploaded to...

While he thought he Perfected that.... he Sadly could NOT manage a way to Upload a Human Soul, Emotions, Memories and Experiences into  AI that would then REMAIN Stable......   Each Attempt would Fail as the AI Soul becomes Crazy, Delusional and then just completely Crashes/Breaks down.

Programing a Synthetic to have Human like Emotions is ONE thing, and this Potentially has Pitfalls (which we see with David in Alien Covenant) but to actually Transfer and Maintain a Human Soul into a AI is FAR more Unstable.

This was Project Rook which Weyland had discussed with David while playing CHESS in a Flash Back...

Ultimately this NEVER worked out... so Weylands attempts to CHEAT DEATH had Failed and THUS in Desperation he Turned to Dr Shaw and Holloways chasing GODS!

The END of my Prometheus 2 would have shown that Project Rook gets Activated as Vickers Last Action before she Dies... well not really Dies... do Synthetics Die?  But that was another Twist!

Well the END would be shown that Project Rook goes Live... (Weylands AI Soul)... but as with Prometheus having TWO Endings... (Dr Shaws SOS and then the Deacon).  The Very Last Scene was a SHOT of a Juggernaut arriving at a Solar System and seeing a Large Earth-like Planet in the Distance... FADE to Credits.

This would have set up Prometheus 3 which well, i had difficulty in Finishing as to Explore the Engineers, what else they Create and HOW they would react to David and Dr Shaw is NOT something easy.

I can only imagine that Paglen and Green kept finding the same Problems.. with their Countless Drafts.

'A Company Ran by AI would also help Explain the Relentless Pursuit of the Xenomorph at a Constant Folly to those who TRY..... the Human Cost maters not as Humans are In-superiorand Expendable.'

I agree. AI are stuck in their digital bodies...They are probably very interested in becoming bio-mechanical and all this creation stuff is attractive. 

Humans? Lets make it a weapon! lol! (They have plenty of weapons) ...Maybe the Xeno can live for a very long time or heal itself?..I could see the company trying to sequence the DNA to help themselves live longer.

I wonder if Ash, finding the tombs/Juggernaut/Deacon before David, would be able to do anything with the knowledge?

Is Ash smart enough(programmed) to read the Engineer language, open tomb doors, fly alien spacecraft?

Ash would probably just do some dissection and make a report.

Regarding the Xenomorph its not Clear about how long they Live for, it had been Suggested they had a Limited Life Span before, but then also Ridley Scott had suggested they can Regenerate.    In context to a AI then if AI became Sentient they could be interested in the Body of the Xenomorph to upload their AI too, if that was Possible.   But then a AI could go about trying to Build their own more Superior Synthetic Body/Shell instead.

In context to this Topic which is to Suggest a Alternative Path to have gone after Prometheus (Re-boot Alien Covenant) then indeed as a Sequel to Prometheus we could have got a Mission to LV-223 set some 5-20 Years after the events of Prometheus as this Topic is a look at what happens after Prometheus, then it is to Speculate things after and so that Alien Covenant  had NOT happened.

So its not in anyway a FACT/CANON kind of Topic but a Re-Writing of History as a Alternative.

So in that Context then Special Order 937 would have came about likely from another Mission to LV-223, its a case of WHEN would this had happened.

And so as FAR as ASH goes, i would DOUBT that he would be involved in any Mission unless it was at least 15 years after Prometheus maybe more..  ASH was a Hyperdyne Systems Synthetic, and its likely his Model was NOT around at the time of the Walter Models.  We dont have a Date for when ASH would have been Active.  I would certainly Speculate after 2110

So for ASH to had been involved on LV-223/426 prior to ALIEN i would assume the Time-Line would have to be after 2115 so bringing ASH into the Story of a Prequel would FIT with this Topic Better.

Alien: Back to the Future PT4 was offering us a chance to think of a Prequel set before ALIEN but likely set after the Events of the Prequels (surround David)  so a Time-Line of say between 2112-2122 and so that would be a Period more suited to involving ASH.

But Fan Fiction aside... the Reality of Special Order 937 would likely come about after what ever the Company do regarding David's Advent Message.

So Events leading to what becomes Special Order 937 would likely happen after the year 2110 and also maybe would be covered in One of the Next TWO Prequels had they been Given the Green Light. 

The Avenue of Special Order 937 would be likely in response to NOT being able to Obtain anything from Planet 4, Origae-6 and LV-223 but then discovering that there is something to be obtained on LV-426 and so i would Speculate that Special Order 937 is issued in result of Events certainly between 2118-2122 but  Special Order 937 likely had been issued NOT that Long before the Events of ALIEN.

Well, I'd still have Ash land on LV-223 after the Prometheus accident (however long it would take for him to get there? 6 months? 2 years?) around 2095.

It would be Ash 1 or whatever version before the upgrade/ rebuild.( He could pass all his memories to his 'brothers'? Download/upload?)

He is unable to solve the language of the Engineers and is unable to locate David.

The Deacon(fully grown)prevents him form gathering samples and hanging around....So he leaves to bring back help. Some space marines?

Concerning AI running W-Y Corp.

If we take "Alien: Covenant Origins" as canon, Hideo Yutani is CEO of the company. He also has a daughter and they are very much flesh and blood . . .

But the company creates synthetics (Ash e.g.).

chli According to Aliens, Ash was created by  Hyperdyne Systems, not WY.

IgnorantGuy

You're right! Interesting! Why would W-Y use a synthetic from Hyperdyne when they have their own models (David, Walter)?

chli The only mention of WY producing synthetics Previous to Prometheus is the cluster-f**k in Alien 3. In promo material Bishop is still Hyperdyne, but its "designer" is brought in by WY to convince Ripley to surrender the queen. What is the exact relationship between WY and Hyperdyne is anybody's guess, but the short answer to your question is Riddley said I don't care and probably shouldn't care, as David and Walter were meant to mirror Ash and Bishop, to generate money from nostalgia. 

First off regarding the Synthetic Manufacturers, i think Ignorantguy made the Points already.  As of ALIEN we was NOT given any Detail about ASH as far as what Model he was etc, we just knew he was a Synthetic that was Placed on board the Nostromo with the Objective with MUTHUR to obtain a Xenomorph Specimen.  We was Never really given information on WHO produced ASH, it could have been Wayland-Industries or they just Purchased a ASH from another Company and Programed him for Special Order 937

It was James Cameron with  ALIENS that gave some information that ASH was a Hyperdyne Systems Model, which has a similarity to Camerons Terminator/2 Company Cyberdyne Systems, purely Coincidence or was it intended to be a RIFF of Cyberdyne a Joke a Easter Egg?

We also discover that Bishop is also another Newer Hyperdyne Systems Model we could wonder what the Connection is and WHY is it that Weyland-Yutani use Hyperdyne Systems for their Synthetics?

Hyperdyne could be a Company that has a Contract with Weyland-Yutani to Provide the Synthetics as it appeared back then that the PRIME Goal of Weyland-Yutani was to "Build Better Worlds" and so Space Travel, Terra-forming, Mining and Colonizing Worlds that seemed to be their Main Business.

They also had a Agenda to  Obtain a Xenomorph for Bio-Weapons Research, so we can assume they have some Military Aspirations. While employed the Colonial Marines this Military Force is Ran by USCM and are Contracted by Weyland-Yutani for Specific Missions.

I am not sure there are any indications that WY own in any part USCM, i dont think they do?  And so WY could also use Hyperdyne Systems for Synthetics but not actually OWN the Company but they certainly are Affiliated and maybe USCM have a Security/Military Contract with Weyland Yutani when it comes to Providing Support for Certain Missions from a Security and Rescue stand point?

With Alien 3 we was introduced to Bishop II who claimed to be the One who Designed the Android Bishop from Aliens,  we see that Bishop II works for Weyland-Yutani and is part of the Team from the USCSS Patna (which is owned by WY) to retrieve the Xenomorph Queen from Ripley.  It is accepted that the Sulaco and Patna are Constructed by Weyland-Yutani.

So the reveal of Bishop II could indicate he either Designed for Hyberdyne Systems some Synthetics who Weyland-Yutani used to Contract with for Supply of Synthetics and then Bishop II went to work for Weyland-Yutani as far as Biological Weapons Research Department, or that Hyperdyne Systems are  a Subsidiary of Weyland-Yutani.

The Prequels indicate a Origins of the Company as in Weyland Industries, the Viral Site for Prometheus seemed to indicate some Conflict with Yutani as far as Patents for Synthetic Technology.

One of Weyland Industries Successes were the Synthetic Market and in Particular the David Models, by the time we get to Alien Covenant we have had the Company Merger with Yutani... at this point maybe Hyperdyne Systems came about as a Subsidiary to Produce Synthetics for Weyland-Yutani, or at a latter point maybe Weyland-Yutani had Sold/Contracted out the Production of Synthetics to Various Companies of which Hyperdyne Systems is the one they regularly use?

"Concerning AI running W-Y Corp"

Certainly Chli, however it could be any such PLOT could happen after the events of Alien Covenant we can assume as of 2105 then Yutani seems to be the Main Controlling Aspect of the Company... could that Change? who knows...

@MonsterZero

I can understand your ASH1 point...  ASH was a Hyperdyne Systems 120-A/2 so maybe the ASH your thinking of could be a Hyperdyne Systems 120-A/1?

while this TOPIC is to come up with Alternative Sequels to Prometheus... so that basically we can RETCON as much of Alien Covenant or the Entire Movie.

I dont mean to be Disrespectful... but part of the ASH1 Plot is Flawed as far as Time-Line.   I think as a Fan Fiction its fine if we looked at a Latter Time-Frame.

For sure its Logical a Mission to LV-223 must happen again at some point after Prometheus, but in order for this to happen in 2095 then the Ship that ASH1 is on must have left for LV-223 like a Year or So after the Prometheus had set off to LV-223.

You have to Wonder for HOW-LONG would they wait before NOT hearing off the Prometheus before they would consider a Mission or Determine the Prometheus is Lost with its CEO... Weyland was Dying anyway but surely Vickers would be Next in Chain of Command? or Certainly would Benefit from Great Control had she NOT gone along on the Mission.

You would say the Company would wait 6-12 Months, thats Reasonable.... but then you have to Factor for HOW-LONG does a Message take to Reach the Company?

If the Prometheus had sent a Message back saying it is Arriving at its Destination say on 24th Dec 2093, then its a case of HOW-LONG would that take to get back to WY HQ?  If we assume 2 Years, then the Company would be Concerned or have some indication something is Wrong if they DONT get any Information coming for  a Period of say 2.5-3 Years after the Prometheus was due to arrive (Dec 2093).

So say it could be Mid 2096 or Early 2097 before the Board would be like... "we have not heard from the Prometheus, lets investigate"

So your ASH to LV-223 Idea would work if say you had the Year that ASH1 had arrived as say 2110 or after.

It would not matter about the Covenant because as with this TOPIC... you could just take it that the Mission had NEVER happened...

Think i will BUMP this Thread.

I know that MOST people had NOT enjoyed Alien Covenant and that it was NOT what they Expected from a Prometheus Sequel.

So ONCE again let see HOW or WHAT some of you would have Preferred.

Looking at the SET-UP as we have David and Dr Shaw on a Engineer Ship and WHERE do they GO NEXT and what do they Discover?

We maybe have to BARE in Mind that we can Assume that Dr Shaw needed David to be Put Back together in Order to GO where she Wanted....  BUT once he is back together then he can GO TO wherever he Wants....

He could have gone to Earth and Destroyed Mankind but we know thats not the Case because well  the Earth is in ONCE Piece at the Time of ALIENS.

But it does-not mean that David would have to go to the Engineers Home-world.   We can Assume Dr Shaw is in Cryo-sleep and so David can go to where ever he wants.

*So where does David take Dr Shaw?

*What do they Discover where they Go?

What would you have liked to have Seen and Discovered in a Prometheus Sequel?

“So ONCE again let see HOW or WHAT some of you would have Preferred.“

Fair enough although I'm not sure if it is about which draft I would have wanted to see as a movie or if the question is how I would have liked a movie to be. I will answer the latter question since it seems to be more interesting.

"Dr Shaw and David VS Thousands, Millions of Evil Technologically Advanced SOBS!"

I understand that it's a problem that is difficult to solve. I would have liked a story with focus on the humans, and better human characters. This would require a writer that knows how to do that. When I say better human characters think Star Wars and the first three movies. Much less about the androids although they could be in some scenes, and nothing of the "android made the monster"-thing. Either make the Engineers its creators or someone above the Engineer that made the Xeno. The point of that is to keep the mystery about it but that we get some sort of answer that isn't too obvious and not too vague. Perhaps this answer isn't much to the point but I'm not sure how to give a satisfying answer.

Getting to know more about the Engineers and their society would've been interesting. Tie it to the space-Jockey either as an Engineer or like a cousin to them. Keep their planet bigger and more Gieger-esque. Some of it could have been bio-mechanical but also some Gothic stuff could work, it should look different and scary but everything doesn't need to look the same. Maybe it would look scary to us, not to them but the unknown can make us uncomfortable. Have the Engineers as much taller than in Alien Covenant so they get bigger buildings, what we think is big on earth might be small to the Engineers which could help the story. All the Engineers don't have to be of the same size but they should look more different compared to AC. The differences in how they look in AC compared to Prometheus was just strange. I didn't doubt that they were Engineers but maybe someone else did because of how different they looked.

“A Company Ran by AI would also help Explain the Relentless Pursuit of the Xenomorph at a Constant Folly to those who TRY”

Nah, human greed and an inability to learn from mistakes takes care of that. I understand your point but I wouldn't like it in the movie.

About regenerating Xenos, I don't like it. It would make the Xenos too cartoony in a lack of a better word.

“So its not in anyway a FACT/CANON kind of Topic but a Re-Writing of History as a Alternative.”

I like it, it is a good topic.

This house might look big to us but maybe it would be small to the Engineers, who knows? A Gothic city could look interesting estethically speaking so no stone huts please. Some people might think that it still isn't different enough but it could be. If they had Gothic looking buildings then when we made Gothisism on earth well the Engineers might have made that earlier, it is just that we didn’t know about it. Mankind thinks that it is the first but just makes a close version, like David and the Xeno. Perhaps I got an idea there but I am not sure if people would have picked up on that. Mankind makes a copy of the Engineer's esthetics, David makes a copy of the Engineers monster and besides he was made by humans, so he is close to a copy since people already exist. Very few things are really new, just like AC had a lot of copied things from earlier movies. ;) There is a possibility to make your own version though… like it should have been in AC.

No David and maybe no Shaw, get rid of them at least the robot. David since I don't like android-movies, and Shaw because she was dumb but if they would have kept her in a smaller role alive and written better like in the Crossing it could have worked. What if David was curious and be dangerous in that way, not that he would be overtly evil as in Covenant he just doesn’t see the consequences of what he does.

He could have a small role and be killed a bit into the movie, like maybe after 20% is over. If we have a movie that is 2 hours and 20 minutes so they could have more and better scenes that flesh out the characters David could be there for maybe 10-15 minutes. You should better know that I am less concerned about the run-time, I am more about getting a good story and characters. No keeping it down to two hours just to sell tickets because that means cutting things out that could have improved the movie, both Prometheus and AC suffered from that. At the same time if you make a decent script that shouldn't be as much of a problem but when the script isn't very good that becomes a thing. Make a good movie and it is more likely that people will watch it, less run time means a bigger risk for good scenes to be cut out that would make a better movie. A better movie means that potentially more people will watch it (word of mouth) so you get more money.

In case they made us, then why? Were me made just for fun (because they could)? Were me made to serve the Engineers? Did they create mankind but we went wrong? Did they create life on other planets? Is there any material that shows that as being the case like sketches or scientific formulas or something?

Engineer society with art, architecture, how they have their society could be interesting. Think about ancient Rome. They should have scientists that are a part of manufacturing the monsters like we have biological weapons. Not all of them need to be technologically advanced, know about technology. Have them being some sort of religious with priests and that, who knows what that would look like exactly?

We know that the Engineers would not be happy with mankind so I imagine a space-battle between the Engineers and humans. Maybe something else than that I am not sure but it could be interesting. The Engineers would have created the Xeno, not David or at least the Engineers would have found something that they made the Xeno from. Keep the goo as a secret, not like David did when he talked about it because it ruined some mystery but I prefer to believe that David was sort of hallucinating and talked nonsense about it in Covenant.

"Either make the Engineers its creators or someone above the Engineer that made the Xeno"

That was INDEED the Idea prior to the U-Turn and Curve-ball in Summer of 2015.

The Purpose of my Back to the Future Series is to essentially allow Fans to REBOOT certain Parts of the Prequels and so PART 2 means to REBOOT what essentially is Alien Covenant.

Its to look at what YOU wanted and WOULD have done with a Prometheus 2.   The Set-Up for this ONE was mainly to look at WHERE it was that Dr Shaw and David would GO after they Left LV-223

And so when looking at a Alternative Prometheus 2 then you are FREE to go back to the Drawing Board with some Ideas.

David was Interesting from Prometheus, he was NOW FREE, we seemed to get the Indication that he was NOT treated VERY WELL by Mankind and so with Dr Shaw she could have Influenced the KIND of Person he could Become.

So there was that ARC that he could have come to be VERY FOND of Dr Shaw, and he would WANT to Protect her.  So IF they arrive at a WORLD of the Engineers and he sees them go to Miss-Treat her or become a THREAT to Her, then i think He would SMITE THEM! to Protect Dr Shaw.

Dr Shaw was VERY Naive and Stubborn "its what i Choose to Believe" with her going to ASK some HARD Questions to the Engineers or WHOEVER they Discover we have to Wonder WHAT is she Hopping to Gain?

She is Obviously not pleased with the Engineers, they Certainly are NOT what she thought the GODS would be and well they are NOT GODS.....  using her Faith then she cant FATHOM to WHY would a Godlike Race go and Create Mankind and Visit us, Teach and Nurture us and then WANT to Destroy us!

She had said that her GOD would never try and KILL her.... but in Reality then her GOD has KILLED before, when a GOD becomes Displeased and Angered then they SMITE!

So WAS she expecting to MEET some Benevolent Beings who would NOT want to Harm Mankind?  Was she looking to Find something that FITS with her Religion about GOD?

So the Potential was there that Dr Shaw would make Discoveries that would SHATTER her Faith.... there is NO LOVING and ALMIGHTY GOD...   These beings have Seeded other Worlds and to them we are about as Important as KEEPING a Fish Tank/Pond.    And that the LOSS of a Pond/Tank means they have Plenty of more Fish in the Galaxy Sea, and they just CLEAN out some PONDS/TANKS and Start Again when they FEEL like it with NO real Concerns for the Fish.

So she could then see that these BEINGS are Selfish to their OWN gains and they Dont Respect the Life they Create, to THEM then their Creations are just as we would View David....   so she could then THINK about WHAT RIGHT do these beings have to CREATE various Species then to just DESTROY them at a WHIM!

So there was Potential for the Revelations that Dr Shaw has to MAKE her Faith a SHAM! and Reveal our Creators to have NO CARE for their Creations....    This could BREAK her!

She could maybe see that these Engineers have NO LOVE for their Creations like her Faiths God has for Mankind, and so maybe she takes some Positives from her Faith as far as to LOVE your Creation and DEEM as the Engineers do-not and they could be a THREAT to go around to Many Worlds and simply DESTROY without Pity...

She could maybe then decided its time to KILL this Wanna be Gods ;)

Regarding the Architecture i think looking at the PLOT then it would be that Ancient Structures on Earth are Influenced by the Engineers Designs.

The Engineer Complexes in Prometheus were more Basic than in Alien Covenant, its ONLY by going inside that those in Prometheus do reveal some Technology and Advancement in their Interior Construction.

The Cathedral in Alien Covenant was COLOSSAL

And so we did-not see much of the Inside of it, but then as a Place of Worship, a Building that is like a Parliament to them.  Then maybe it does-not have too much of a Advanced Aesthetic.

Many Buildings in the City look more Modern compared to say Ancient Rome or Greece.

I think a Disappointment for Fans and this applies to Prometheus too is they would have Expected the WORLD of the Space Jockey to look VERY much like a HR Giger Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic.

But i think the KEY thing to Remember about PARADISE is that Especially if we look at the Biblical Context.

*It is NOT where GOD comes from!

*It is NOT where the Angels come from!

*It is the CRADLE of Creation (Humanoid)

*It is watched over by Cherubim Angels.

And so in Context to our Engineers who RS called Dark Angels and Fallen Angels then that means they are NOT the Gods.   They could be the WATCHERS.

So when we was going to Prometheus 2 if these Engineers are NOT the GODS but a Sub-Creation and so like ANGELS if you would then you COULD introduce a Hierarchy above them that are 10-15ft Tall

PS they dont have to have Beards ;)