ALIEN: Back to the Future Part 3

Thoughts_Dreams

I believe in public debate and therefore in trying and hearing lots of opinions. But I also think they need to be tried a bit so that the debate is not about something completely unviable. And by that I mean that is not worthy to entertain something that is least likely to appear on the screen - even though what appears on the screen is uncertainty, still some ideas are more likely than others. With that:

1) Did you like AC? Also, at this point lets recall what happened at the box office - it didn't do too well, did it? If anything it did worse than the Prometheus, which means that potentially less people are happy with AC than with P.

2) Do you see how what you propose is essentially just the same as AC? Where another mission comes along to the planet to discover an eventual threat from an already overly cooked beast. In the process you discard David, Daniels & T as if they were not there at all and have nothing to tell. Besides, this story would not make any progress on the front of marching towards the inevitable - recall the goals is to somehow reveal who the big fellow in the chair is. Or at least imply who might end up there and under what circumstances.

In light that what you describe seems like a tried idea, which has already flopped and discards main characters and therefore makes the story telling potentially even poorer do you see how this actually makes it all a bit of a non-starter?

Above all it doesn't tell a good story - essentially you propose for everybody to forget what happened in past movies (P & AC) and instead concentrate on a fresh, new 5-6 faces and have them slashed the old style, with the novel element being that now WY learns about the beast and that it wants it. Did I get this right?

"Did you like AC? Also, at this point lets recall what happened at the box office - it didn't do too well, did it? If anything it did worse than the Prometheus"

I think thats a interesting thing to debate....  maybe in part, there was a lot of interest in PROMETHEUS because it was a return to the Franchise, a Potential Prequel so some fans expected more connections to the Xenomorph and what happened to the Big Chap in the Chair...  and it was Ridley Scotts return to the Franchise.

Maybe with any kind of sequel... there could have been a % of those who saw Prometheus and plain and simple did-not like the Path it was heading and so in a way Boycott seeing any sequel.    This is by no means Factual...  i just feel that the Higher % Box Office for Prometheus was expectation driven.   And a Lower % for Alien Covenant to some degree was maybe Fans not having expectations and decide to pass, and wait for DVD or Cable Network.  i dont think this is the biggest cause for the difference in Box Office but i think it may played some part.

I think maybe like Solo a Star Wars Movie.. i know a few people who have Boycotted the Franchise  after the Last Jedi Farce. I never saw Star Wars Solo at the Cinema, but when i eventually did get to watch it, and ignoring Box Office i was surprised it NEVER did as well, compared to how Very Well the Last Jedi did...  I saw Solo 3 times and its not too bad.... ok its not as good as the Original Trilogy or Rogue One... but it was not as STUPID as the Last Jedi which i FORCED (no pun intended) to watch again and well i think it has more Stupid Elements that even Phantom Menace.

So maybe Disappointment of a Prior Installment can affect the potential Box Office of another?  I think Star Wars EP9 would be a Good Yard Stick to judge that!

And i think this is where we are in the situation NOW... Disney cancelled all Anthology Plans due to the disappointment of SOLO...

The situation we have with Alien Covenant... it is highly likely more than likely that it would not gain as much interest as Alien Covenant had.. its a BIG GAMBLE..  i certainly feel to expect a % Return like Prometheus did, would be very very optimistic...  

And with Disney they would not take Gambles!  If they pulled the Plug on Star Wars Spin-offs it does not bold well for another ALIEN movie for a while... especially in continuation of the Alien Covenant Set-up which has written them into a Corner.

I think the average JOE or lets say 70% of who would see a Alien Covenant Sequel would not be interested much in the Philosophical Themes, or what kind of World David creates, or Colony Daniels manages to set up...

They would likely be wanting to know WHEN the Xenomorph Appears and HOW/WHEN it gets on the Derelict... which if we have TWO movies to get there, i think a majority would not want to have a Movie about a Colony, that then goes to POT when Humans and Engineers Arrive.. they may be waiting for the 3rd Act to get to these scenes.. like some may have been waiting for the 3rd Act of Prometheus to give us some connection to ALIEN which it never did.

I for one would be interesting in something different and done mind having to watch 2-3 hours of something else before we get to more ALIENY Shenanigans leading to the Derelict in the 3rd act of say a ALIEN COVENANT 3 ... i just feel average Joe and Fanboys would want to have a more Alieny Plot/Path in Alien Covenant 2.

Means maybe a AC2 would be better off being a AFTER-MATH of what ever World David would build.. but i think he should still play a part in this aftermath.

I think in Context to this Topic (its not quite a where to go next in the Franchise) but only as far as where NEXT after Alien Covenant.

The Set-Up is to conclude the Prequels and their Path from Prometheus to Alien.  that by Virtue of the Alien: Prefix we are expected to March Towards the Inevitable which would likely conclude with HOW/WHEN/WHY those Eggs ended up on the Derelict.

And in regards to that you have to follow a few Rules (i am talking in regards to the Inevitable), and so the CONCLUSION would be to show or explain in a lesser ambiguity than Prometheus.. WHEN/WHERE/HOW those Eggs came to be on the Derelict.

Leaving the Story Started with Prometheus and completely ignore what happens next to the Covenant, in favor of a different approach HAS to then lead to another explanation/route that indicates with not much ambiguity of WHEN/WHERE/HOW those Eggs came to be.

The Ending of Alien Covenant like Prometheus is pretty open to exploration but it sets up the likely path to go where the TWO main Characters are heading... with Prometheus this was David and Dr Shaw and that Hijacked Juggernaught.

Alien Covenant only really sets up where David and the Covenant is off too and what happens to Daniels... HOWEVER... by Virtue of the Advent Viral Message, it opens up a potential PLOT where the Company sends a Ship to Planet 4 or LV-223.. just as the disappearance of the Prometheus and Dr Shaws Warning could potentially had set up a mission to LV-223

A Movie regarding LV-223 could therefore be done and disregard what David is up to... to a degree.. a Mission to LV-223 would be kind of like a Prometheus MK2 where this time the incoming Humans could be placed in more ALIENY peril like the Alien Engineers Draft.   Such a Direction would still leave people wanting to know about the Xenomorph Origins and HOW/WHEN/WHERE the Eggs got onto the Derelict.   And so this leaves us with the Problem that this would have to be Answered, at least to a lesser degree of Ambiguity... 

So more concrete Clues would have to be made that does-not have to show HOW/WHEN/WHY the Eggs got onto the Derelict... but it has to indicate either..

*The Eggs/Xenomorph had existed before the Prometheus Mission.

*That LV-223 shows that the Eggs/Xenomorph was never around before the Prometheus Mission.

Doing either and especially the 2nd would leave some Fans still wanting to know what happens with David and the Covenant, and if its shown there was NO Eggs before David, then the Fans would still expect to see HOW those Xenomorphs from Planet 4 make it on board a Engineer Ship that is heading towards or leaving LV-223/426

so its kind of got the Franchise caught between a Rock and a Hard Place!

I can see some Fans are not pleased with David the Emphasis on AI, Creation and Philosophy and a tale of Hubris, but to carry on the MARCH to Alien, by brushing aside David like Dr Shaw was.. is maybe not a ideal route to go. 

Its just going to be a HARD juggling act to try and please everyone... looking at the SET-UP for Alien Awakenings Sequel, i can see most fans would not be much interested in what David chooses to do/create.  They would rather see Xenomorphs or Similar and Humans put in Peril by these..

This really only limits you to a few kinds of PLOT.

*The David conducts experiments on the Covenant, before things go to POT!  And some crew awaken to find part of the ship has become a Xenomorph Hive of Sorts that was Quarantined off..   i Proposed something similar after AC came out... but it has more of a Aliens+Alien+Alien Resurrection meets the movie Pandorum

*The aftermath of Davids World going to POT kind of Plot where a incoming Human Ship arrives to find most of the Colony Deserted, and uncover a Xenomorph Hive! This would just give us a Aliens meets Alien Resurrection Re-hash!

You maybe have to Juggle similar to the above with covering in Part David and what happens just prior to things going to POT!

BigDave,

there are a few things I wanted to say about the movies and thus make my take on them more definite. I apologize beforehand if this looks like a ramble and is offtopic, which it probably is.

Subject, philosophy and the marketing

Lets not kid ourselves - when you say there is philosophy in the movie, that is nonsense - it is just the trick pulled upon the movie goers by movie makers. The philosophic aspect here is just a front, a facade, tactically used to attract "thinkers". Notice, thinkers in quotation marks, because there is no thinking involved in it, really. Therefore and instead what you get is a fraction of people who think there is a good ground for thinking here - I suppose that was the goal - to attract a section of people, passionate, "hardcore" thinkers that can see the deep ideas on which movie is supposedly made, which are not all that obvious to the uninitiated and thus you have this supposed and fictitious asymmetry of information, a gradient between those who are supposedly in the know and those who are not. The later fraction is much more numerous than the "thinking" fraction, and it would be in the commercial interest of the movie makers for the thinkers influence those who might have had low expectations from the movie - thus encouraging a repeated viewing or attracting the first timers. This is essentially what makes viral ideas work, I guess - it is when the word on the street is that this is the thing, the zeitgeist - the must have one and if there are enough such mentions you might succumb. The ultimate goal is to make people to spread awareness and create an intrigue by word of mouth. The movies were created in their inception from circa 2010s (P - 2012, AC - 2017) and viral spread of information on internet was already a known thing. And this phenomena was incorporated into the movie and its marketing. Recall all those extras. They certainly tried bona fide marketing assault and played by the books, but it didn't work out.

As for thinking and thinkers. It is bonkers to think that these movies will tell you a story of origins, creation or anything of the sort. At the same time it is not completely bankrupt either, after all it tells a story based upon non-mainstream but still well established stories. It is rather reasonable to assume that any such ideas conveyed to you from the screen are at best aberrations of stories written in books decades ago. And in a way it is naive to expect some novel idea watching a movie. And most of the time the ideas conveyed on the screen are castrated and perverted to suit the 2h or 3h viewing.

So you would be better off reading from the source most of the time. Especially if you are inclined to think - see the original, not an interpretation. Be cognizant at least that it is an interpretation contrived specifically for you to get entangled in. And more you explore and discover the grounding ideas the more elated you are. But all you are doing is shining a light on some contrived factoid in a collective psychosis. And this is why, I suppose, thinking in this imaginary world is rather futile.

On the other hand, the subject of the movies in itself needs to have just enough consistency and some grounding in reality, otherwise even your imagination will discard what is presented to you as complete rubbish - it would feel complete waste of time if the movie is doesn't tell somewhat consistent story. But if it has a somewhat intriguing background, enough mysticism and consistency you might relax into the movie. But working out possible future developments based on details provided, I can only imagine, has frustrated many people - because your idea no matter how worked out it is and logical it might look like is just as good as the other insane idea of someone else with much less consistency. Here is an example : suppose you write a novel based upon the movie - then comes a lunatic and posts an idea which totally rubbishes your thesis and your postulates. Guess what, his rubbish is not worse than your beautiful story. And what if he might even have developed an aspect of the story elegantly? Perhaps an aspect which you never even considered worthy pursuing. And here comes in a somebody and writes something which looks even better than your story. What do you do? I saw numerous times how this frustrated people. Perhaps, even on this forum.

See, an imaginary environment such as this Alien universe doesn't really reward thinking or has clear set goals or standards to lean on - this can be frustrating to many, even for its original writer/creator to satisfy the people who like to "think" in this environment. In fact every bizarre(stupid) idea is just as likely to be real - because it is all fiction. And so lets not make something big out of this. The philosophy is shallow, and it is all pretentious crap - do not expect to learn some truths, logic, history or anything of that sort - instead it is all a fable. And as such it has a canon writer.

 

Movie critics

Btw, that is why I believe Ridley Scott is quite right to say that critics do not matter. Especially movie critics. Because all they are arguing is an absurd position where they are arguing the movie director for making this choice or the other. In Ridley Scott's case this is especially poignant because the man is the writer, a god of his universe. And when a critic shows up and gives a smug review and gives say 1 stars out of 5 that makes me laugh. It is funny because RS is usually very good whipping out somewhat good movies and who are those critics? What are they upset about? Therefore he is right when he points out that critics have no ground when they argue his choices in his universe. Dig up the critique of the lady who gave a scathing review of Blade Runner, which if you read up makes a whole lot of sense on its own. Here : "Baby, The rain must fall" by Pauline Kael ( http://scrapsfromtheloft.com/2016/12/28/blade-runner-review-pauline-kael/ ) 

That is the thing - who are the critics and what have they achieved, despite how legitimate their argument is in this particular case? You know, when you are arguing an aspect of a neverland, you are quite justified of shooting the messenger in that world - especially if you are a director/writer, ie, creator of the neverland. That is why critics don't matter. And there is a case that their rave reviews don't do much for financial success of the movie  - case in point BR 2049. So critics don't matter. Like at all.

 

Fans and their delusions

Now, do fans matter? I argue that no, they do not matter - they will watch the movie anyway - they will still pay to see the movie. Even in movies like LOTR did fans matter? Arguably they did. Peter did excellent job - simply fantastic. Most of the fans were happy. Then, watch what happens with his Hobbit adaptation - where fans happy? Nope. Were the movies a success even with religious zealot type of following complaining? Yes. So it turns out fans do not matter. Perhaps they won't buy memorabilia if they don't like the next installment but they don't matter - they will still watch it. What matters for success is the word of mouth - the viral aspect - the first few weeks of the movie predict the financial outcome at box office. What if there is a sharp decline in viewings? Can it be that people don't think it is worthy to recommend to someone else? See when you recommend something to somebody else - you put your reputation on the line. On the other hand when you get only a few recommendations you won't think much, and this is what happened with BR2049 - too few fans knew about it and the story was not and they again didn't matter because in that case the 30 years between the movies a number of canon short stories - who is going to pay that much attention? Fans will, but will general public care? The answer was silent but overwhelming. Good word of mouth matters, not enough and the movie falls through cracks, just enough of it - you get a sense that everyone and their mom is going eventually you will feel obliged to follow. Recall the ramble above about hardcore people in the know, the influencers? They might just do it. If not, it still can flop you know - if not they are pushed onto forums and there they argue this or that, like we do here but do we matter for future directions of the movies? Absolutely not. At best we might be used as guinea pigs even though I doubt it. Writers like Lindelof have their heads so far up their ass - after all they know better, right? And they would be justified to ignore the fans just as well. I guess in future we will see people promoting movies by employing the IG, twitter and youtube stars. There will be less and less reliance on traditional old style critics reviewing and giving stars. In a sense, you could say influencers(don't like this word) will eventually replace the movie critics/reviewers if not already.

 

RS and what kind of world will he create

Now that's out of the way and having the benefit of hindsight we can safely say this: Prometheus and its story telling didn't matter. Even though the movie did all right - after all it was a major announcement, 30 years after the Alien, legendary Ridley Scott is giving you the story of how life began. The marketing was quite promising - there was enough interest and traction in it. But it flopped imo it did all right but it didn't set the world on fire. Certainly it was nothing like say SW TFA or Rogue One. AC was even less successful. So much so that the whole franchise is in question:

P has IMDB 7/10, rotten tomatoes 73%-critics, 68%-audience, budget $130m and $126m US/$400m world returns.

AC has IMDB 6.4/10, rotten tomatoes 66%-critics, 55%-audience, budget $97m and $74m US/$241m world returns.

just for reference:

Rogue One has IMDB 7.8/10, rotten tomatoes 84%-critics, 86%-audience budget $200m and $532m US/$1.05B world returns.

So inflation adjusted, AC did significantly poorer than what P did, despite the fact that it had the beast and was using the classic recipe.

AC is even more interesting to talk about in the aspect which shows that the world created in the Prometheus doesn't really interest people. Although it is interesting and intriguing - just look how many people loved the engineers and all that...yet it was a flop. Anybody has idea why?

Whatever it is, you have to give it RS - at least he does a research when he embarks on his projects. He takes a genuinely interesting concepts to explore. Sometimes he manages to weave a solid story and delivers masterpieces. Sometimes there is originality to it - he views an interesting topic from interesting perspective. He always directs them very well - his movies, have best visuals, designs, props for the money he spends on his movies. Sometimes his movies do not do commercially very well. BR is a flop btw money wise, even though it is an excellent movie. Fundamentally he picks an interesting angle of a intriguing topic, say AI and considers it in somewhat original aspect : what if the AI is emotional. Prometheus was of course a story about search for immortality.

While I am skeptical Ridley got that initial idea himself, even though he very well could have - he got an interesting story - he certainly produced a very beautiful picture, augmented it with sleek score and put enough cherries in it - with designs, quotes and actors. It all looked very well done. But that is where it ends. I actually think after 5 years of P nobody cared that much - people moved on and eventually forgot about the intriguing points of Prometheus. Now financial outcomes of past movies are affecting the future. So in the end of it all we somewhat know where the movie is going - these all being prequels to Alien. And whatever route they take it all doesn't look too pretty - it won't matter.

Epilogue

Ironically, I think a movie like Starship Troopers in alien universe with epic scale all out war can help save the franchise. I mean the cliche movie sequence which induces camaraderie against alien species(all of them engineers, whatever) - this can potentially pull out the franchise out of the slump. Forget this soul searching.

Despite being an interesting idea, being mortal(and looking a way out of it) is the last thing worries youngsters - just recall when you were a teen and full of energy would you've taken seriously any movie or a character in the movie that was only interested in living a bit longer. This won't work for young people. For Ridley and 30 somethings perhaps this makes a lot of sense - people who have seen death where their relatives or friends have passed, those who where totally fine had to go. Those experiences are prevalent in your later stages of life, I would imagine. For youngsters - it is probably the last thing that bothers them. I would argue religion, god and all that is swept even further down under the carpet. Instead they should aim for mystique and excitement-thrill mixed with making people scared. Plus something unknown. Sex sells, something like Shaw-Holloway might work. But the big catharsis has got to be the war. I would argue anything else is going to close they horizons even further.

But I would argue that Disney should abstain from pinning this franchise to any particular human actor or character. They will probably make most money in the long run from the beast and its image rather than from selling say faces even as iconic as S.Weaver. Instead they should make the beast and its mystique the main character, which it obviously is. No Skywalker kind of character will carry the future of this franchise. Besides, I think they should make the revelation of the identity of who the chap in the chair a minor thing - a side story. Instead of collapsing the possibilities, sidestep the issue and go for broke and make an all out melee. They have built up enough of conflict between WY, David, engineers, colonists, T & Daniels - some of them should go and do so in dramatic fashion. There is too much canon fodder running in there. To be fair this was what RS was implying we would get in the final installment.

I mean they have nothing to lose at this point anyway, right? I am still not 100% sure - therefore asking the people who consider themselves hardcore ALIEN fans. Although I suspect they, those fans, have checked out a long long time ago :) They probably went AWOL after A3.

Having seen how it all has played out I have to say it is damn tough to produce a movie which is interesting, exciting, explores relevant futuristic mainstream ideas(doesn't have too much baggage) which can be extended to a series and be commercially successful all at the same time. Even Ridley is struggling. Inadvertently I am reminded how Ridley once said that the lack of interesting movies is due to fact that genuinely interesting, sufficiently worked out ideas to explore are missing. That is a damning call out for Lindelofs of this world. The technology is here, the actors are damn good these days - no shortage of new faces with probably huge talents - it is the fables that are holding Ridleys back.

To be fair, SW is also in trouble - they are running out of ideas. And their characters are naturally dropping of and out. Who do you thin is David in SW world. I argue that David and the beast are as eternal characters in ALIEN world as are 3CPO and R2D2 and the BB8. SW are lucky they have this chewie thing. Every other character from the originals is about dead now. This should supposedly support the idea that they shouldn't develop characters like Skywalker, they get impossibly boring quite quick and after they are cooked, it risks alienating main audience. Also, characters proved divisive should be dealt with swiftly. Can you imagine if they had that Jar Jar Binks in all of their subsequent prequels? So while I am curious how Ridley finds his way out of the corner he has boxed himself in, I am not optimistic.

"What do you do? I saw numerous times how this frustrated people. Perhaps, even on this forum"

Certainly i can understand that this applies to some, i am very open to other peoples views and interpretations and i hope i never come across as FORCING my ideas are the RIGHT idea.. The Prequels are ambiguous but there are things that can be read from them, but they require taking on board much more than only seeing the say 2 hour Theatrical Run-time of each Movie.

I kind of understand what you mean about the NO real Philosophy as in context to whats actually shown in the Movies alone... i guess a lot of the Themes and Philosophy come from those who look at what the Movie has teased/hinted and then think deeply about how these themes and philosophy can apply if you try and think about it.

But in the Movie, its not so clear to most... Prometheus was a movie that RS had said the intention was to ASK Big Questions, where do we come from, what is a Soul and Quest for Immortality and so the viewer has to look at RS comments and try and connect how Philosophically this can connect or especially more what it DOES-NOT show, but what you can think about when taking his comments on board.

To a Regular Joe who watches Prometheus 1-2 times, and sees some them comments from RS, they would not conclude what he was saying, because the movie does-not clearly answer were do we come from!  It just says MAYBE we dont come from where you expect  as in a Magical Gods Creation or the Result of the Big Bang and Evolution.. the same can be said for what is a Soul.. Prometheus does not really give any answers...  but when looking at RS comments after Prometheus and in the set up and after Alien Covenant, it is something you have to think about for yourself and so indeed i could be just interpreting what he meant and thinking is he thinking similar to me, when he could completely not be hinting towards exploring that Philosophy and that as Weyland Said.. David has NO SOUL...  And Maybe Mankind Does.. and its that Magical Spirit that goes on after DEATH.. but i dont think thats what it was about at all...  But i have covered ENDLESS times that Immortality a Soul as in Consciousness that lives on when we Die, is maybe something that NEVER exists... but something similar in terms of a AI actually could offer BOTH.

In Regards to Prometheus being a FLOP.. i think as i covered the Fact this was the First Alien movie in a while and Ridley Scotts returning, a lot of people would have gone to see it just as they would have for the Star Wars Force Awakens.  (obviously not as much) it was fans expecting this movie would be some kind of Prequel... the Marketing may have helped too.  But the movie got a lot of Criticism compared to its Box Office...  

Alien Covenant maybe suffered a bit because some fans was just not interested in a Prometheus Sequel.... it really was a odd one as im sure FOX by Virtue of giving Fans the Xenomorph expected this movie to have done just as well as Prometheus.....  Even the Xenomorph did-not save it.

So i think yes, Ridley Scott should have got to carry on with what ever he had planned, which seemed to not revolve around purely showing us the Xenomorph and its Origins.

And i agree to a degree about the Starship Troopers comment, i have said on here a number of times that a majority of fans and casual viewer would be more in tune to watching a Aliens meets AVP but replace Predators with Engineers type of Action Popcorn Flick, than trying to do a Alien Universe Blade Runner cross over type movie through the Creation Eyes of David instead of Tyrell.

" just recall when you were a teen and full of energy would you've taken seriously any movie or a character in the movie that was only interested in living a bit longer"

I was a bit different ;) but i kind of get where your coming from, when i was younger it was not quite the case you mention as i was still interesting in movies like Bladerunner etc... but i also really liked the Pop-Corn Flicks..  I liked Alien and Aliens, and i was not a fan of Alien 3 much.. but as years go by, Aliens started to just appeal as a Popcorn Flick, and so it Grew Less Interesting... where as Alien 3 Grew on me more... so if i was back to being a 14-21 year old then YES a Aliens may seem better than a Prometheus,  as we get older i agree we kind of like the more Thought Provoking Good Story Movies than Action and Effects.

"To be fair this was what RS was implying we would get in the final installment"

Its kind of hard to gauge what RS is really on about at times, but certainly his War of the Worlds comments seemed in part tongue in cheek, but in part its like this is where he thinks they could go with it.. should they allow him.

Certainly in Context that has to hint towards having the Weyland Company + Military aware of the Engineers, and seeing  Davids Xenomorph as a Weapon that could protect them... The Engineers would certainly feel threatened by the Fact that LV-223 being abandoned has led to Weylands Creation, creating  a Horrific Weapon... would they like to also get their hands on it...  While the Engineers would certainly want to make sure Mankind and David are Destroyed so that neither can claim and influence the Galaxy away from the Engineers.

It potentially opens up a PLOT where after the Engineers discover what became of Planet 4 and determine that HAD the Earth been eradicated they would not have been in the PICKLE they are now in... they would surely not be content to go and find David and Kick his Ass, Destroy what ever World he has built and then Stomp Out the Humans who are also there....

So indeed you would think the Engineers would be coming to Earth... but that conflicts with the Franchise, unless they FAIL and Davids Xenomorphs prove to be the Final Victor.

But then the potential is there for the WAR of the WORLDS to be about other Worlds..... who knows if this was to be the case, but certainly the Engineers must have created life on more than just Earth and Hanged  Out only in the Zeta 2 System.

Certainly if RS felt the Franchise should be going for a Star Trek and Star Wars..

 

"To be fair, SW is also in trouble - they are running out of ideas. And their characters are naturally dropping of and out. "

To a degree YES.... but actually IF done right there is potential there than just being about the SKY-WALKERS and Characters in the Franchise...  

Spin-Offs could have worked... Rogue One was good... there is a lot of potential to cover different things, with just loose Cameos....  rather than having to Cover in Depth Characters we have already seen... such as the Solo-Movie and so maybe they could have had the same problem if we got a Obi-Wan Movie or a Yoda one.....

A Bounty Hunter/Criminal Underworld movie could have worked... Han-Solo is this in part... but i would argue such a movie that IS-NOT about a Main Star Wars Character we have seen in numerous movies, maybe would have been better with NEW Characters and only Cameos of some of the Bounty Hunters from Star Wars.. inc say Bobba-Fett and also Jabba the Hutt but not cover these as much as how SOLO covered Han Solo.

I actually thought SOLO was not to bad.. people i know who Boycott it due to the FARCE that was the Last Jedi!

There are other things they could do with Star Wars... to much to mention really, but it seems they now seem to want to stick with the Sky-Walker Tale which will end with Kylo-Ren in effect becoming the HERO..  its quite predictable and more so... i would not be shocked if he DIES in saving REY.... she is FORCE Pregnant with his Son/Daughter and we then get another Sky-Walker EP10-12 ;)

In context to the ALIEN Franchise i worry that Disney will feel the same and that more Emphasis on Ripley and so her and her daughter are the Sky-Walkers of the Franchise!

I hope not!

I will say one thing that will certainly HOLD TRUE for the Franchise, that is the Xenomorph in some form or another its what the ALIEN Franchise is associated with, by Virtue of giving us a ALIEN Prefix Prequels it sets up Fans to expect the Xenomorph in some Incarnation or another to be in the Movies!

Just as with any Star Wars movie it would be expected to have the STORM-TROOPERS and Empire in some incarnation or another (Clone Troopers, Storm Troopers, First Order Troopers).  you would also have to have the Weyland Company Implied in any movie too, as they are in effect the Empire/First Order of the Franchise.

I think Alien Covenant dropped a big mistake in killing of the Engineers instead of expanding on that Mystery and Enigma.... much like The Last Jedi had done to SNOKE... his Character and History are something that also should have been expanded upon but SLAIN for no real good reason. Well a Plot Point Reason.. just as Davids Bombardment of the Engineers..... when so much more could have been done instead.

So WHAT WE HAVE NOW..

Is a unfinished prequel, were Fans are going to want to see a Action/War kind of Epic that features Xenomorphs and Engineers used in a Dust Up just as we saw the Predators and Xenomorphs in AVP.  or at least Disney will feel this is what most fans want.... but may make more money.

Interest in David has dwindled, its likely most people would not want to have a movie thats about HIM and what kind of a World he would Create and WHY,  they will just want to see Humans arrive at a World where he has his Xenomorphs, and get in Trouble and then Engineers come along... and make things worse for Humanity...

And a case of Davids Creations vs Engineers....

WHOEVER WINS.... WE LOOSE!

I think going back to ON-TOPIC as far as where to they continue the Prequels as in Set-After Alien Covenant we really have the following Set-Ups.

1) Continue with where David is taking the Covenant and what he would intend to do Next!

This depends on how we tackle what Davids Motive is from NOW, and while Ridley Scott wanted to cover "What Kind" of World would he Build/Create we have to bare in mind that those who have Watched Alien Covenant and not what Ridley Scott has said or mentioned, would not be drawn to this from just seeing the Movie.   Which many may conclude that we have this Robot, who has No Care for Humanity or Engineers, and merely sees them as subjects to Create his Xenomorphs.   If he only has those TWO Face Huggers, then unless ONE produced a Queen or we go for the Egg Morph route really limits HOW can David obtain Many More Xenomorphs without either.

*Obtaining more Black Goo from Planet 4 or LV-223

*Collecting more Eggs/Face Huggers from Planet 4

Without NO Aliens Queen or Egg Morph, If Davids Agenda is to Mass Create Xenomorphs then he has to go to Planet 4 First or LV-223

Once he has accomplished getting more Face Huggers/Eggs or Black Goo (or both) it then leads us to David either Experimenting/Mass Producing on either.

*The Covenant Ship during the Journey to Origae-6

*Use the LV-223 Outpost to conduct his work.

Bare in Mind the Company was informed that David (Walter) will be taking the Ship to Origae-6 after suffering a Incident on the way (Alien Covenant).  Which could mean in Future other Human Colony Ships could go to Origae-6

From watching Alien Covenant you dont really get the indication of what Ridley Scott suggests about the NEXT Movie will NOT be about the Xenomorph, but will be about AI and WHAT KIND of a World David would Create (thats likely not a Xenomorph Factory)

2) Explore what the Company Would Do IN LIGHT of the Advent Viral Message from David.

Which gives the Option to NOT cover or go where David is off too, or show us the Company Turning Up LATE to the PARTY (What David does next on Origae-6)

The Advent Shows us that David sends a Encrypted Message to someone at the Company... where he informs them of WHO he is and WHAT he has been up to.  Prior to this David as Walter merely informed the Company that after a Incident they are on their way to Origae-6, missing some Crew!

With this extra KNOWLEDGE.. you would think the Company would maybe send a Mission out to LV-223 or Planet 4 or even BOTH locations to discover what David has been up to.. But they could also decide to GO TO where David is heading Origae-6

The Possibility of the Company Sending a Mission to LV-223 or Planet 4 after the Message would suggest they would be Prepared more and could give us a Direction that Does-Not have to Focus on David or that much!  We could discover more about the Black Goo, Engineers and Experiments and Motives and Xenomorphs via this route!

HOWEVER.............

Whichever Likely Route to take.. be its Option 1 or Option 2 instead of similar to what Ridley Scott had hinted at... HAS TO lead to Conclude with either.

*The Xenomorph Pre-Existed the Prometheus Mission.

*The Xenomorph Did-Not Exist prior to the Prometheus Mission/Planet 4 Experiments by David

Because by VIRTUE of being in continuation of the Prequels the AIM would still have to indicate HOW/WHEN/WHY those Eggs got onto the Derelict and while not having to give us the Event... it would have to give us a NOT-SO Ambiguous Clue, to determine the EGGS came from David or after Alien Covenant, or they was around prior to Prometheus.

Indeed its hard to see HOW to continue, with the Path that RS is on, and Please Fans... or make any MONEY.   They are likely to want to see Xenomorphs, and HOW/WHEN/WHY those Eggs got on the Derelict..... and likely have it to NOT be David.

I think if we are to continue after Alien Covenant and March towards ALIEN then exploring Option 1 or Option 2 are really the only Options instead of "what kind of world" would a David Create and Rule over?

And as BioDegradable said it would be interested to see WHAT/WHERE would Alien Fans who maybe are not pleased with the route of Alien Covenant/David Arc Plot has taken us.

Forget about LV-223 and Planet-4. It's dead planets. Only LV-426 used twice, because at the beginning it was just a rock environment, and then - the humans colony. The world is evolve! Plus in 1986 alien universe was very small and we have only LV-426 with Derelict with eggs. But now - many planets and potentially new worlds.

Second visit on LV-223/Planet-4 sounds boring. This worlds don't evolve! What WY expeditions will show us new? I know only one thing - adult Deacon on LV-223. Nothing more! Or WY can build a research(read as colony) centers on this planets, but... well... you know - sounds a bit secondary.

It's a great base for books, comics and games. Like a great masterpiece - Fire and Stone saga. In this comic LV-223 is really evolving.

In Awakening we have three paths for this planets:

1) WY expeditions visiting LV-223/Planet-4 in sort time intro/memories (or separate video as The Crossing).

2) WY expedition visit this worlds in words.

3) Just leave this worlds for books, comics and games.

 

I prefer that would Alien Awakening focused entirely on Origae-6 and (optional) Derelict.

Biodegradable:

Nah, I did not like it in general, there were some good parts in it but a lot of weak things too. I think that the box office wasn’t too good on it but it kind of got what it deserved.

Yes I got rid of David since I am tired of the evil AI story. Daniels and Tennessee were weak characters so I got rid of them also. You say that it doesn’t tell a good story, fair enough, I am not a very experienced writer, those were just some ideas.

@Thoughts_Dreams

Totally get where your coming from as where to GO next, in regards to what to do with Daniels, Tennessee and David and my Reply to you on Alien Awakening, Alien 5 etc Thread i covered the Problems with such, in regards to HOW to do it and what Problems even not including them would face. Its very much Between a Rock and a Hard Place

"Second visit on LV-223/Planet-4 sounds boring. This worlds don't evolve!"

Certainly Leto  i agree.... we do have the Dilemma regarding WHAT becomes of these places... but we dont have to cover them in any shape or FORM... in ALIENS we had Hadleys Hope in a Kind of Ruin.... yet we did-not have to see the Colony being Built, Lived in and then the Moments the Xenomorphs were unleashed.... we got the picture of all of this without having to show any of that.

I would not think RS intends to have Fire and Stone be Canon to where he would have connected them.

"What WY expeditions will show us new? I know only one thing - adult Deacon on LV-223. Nothing more!"

I think potentially it can reveal much more... but i agree ideally you should explore something NEW or... follow what happens to David and the Covenant... or the Aftermath of what happens.

But IF we did go to LV-223 and IGNORE the Comics.. what we saw in Prometheus Scratched the Surface only... it was Vague and Ambiguous..  David had likely gathered a lot of information... but he had not indicated to anyone WHAT he knows in Depth!

The Questions from Prometheus could be answered in a follow up to LV-223, the Questions of Dr Shaws could be answered in going to Planet 4 but i think indeed maybe a Movie needs to cover something else!

A lot of people do seem to think LV-223 was where Engineers had all along Created the Deacon ALONE to Destroy Mankind, or do Re-Create their GOD these in part are wrong/barely scratch the Surface..  but they are right to make assumptions based on the ambiguity alone. (but its so ambiguous, that such assumptions could be shown as correct)

IF we look at what the PLAN was with Alien Engineers which was the beginning of the Prequel Project that Evolved to Prometheus, there is a LOT more to be covered, certainly from what would please Fans who want a more ALIENY less DAVID movie.

Each Outpost on LV-223 is likely to either

a) Contain a Variant of the Deacon/Xenomorph.

b) Or be dedicated/indicated to another World the Engineers had interacted with AND maybe intended to Destroy.

Its a limited view to assume every Complex had the same MURAL and Same Black Goo Variant and more so, was all built to UNLEASH HELL on Earth.

But a lot of the Potential for Expanding the Franchise... was Brushed Aside by Alien Covenant... its NOW only about HOW/WHEN/WHY do Davids Creations end up on a Engineer Ship that ends up on LV-426

I have a friend who is very passionate about Aliens and i want to send to him an Alien T-shirt as gift for his birthday And written on the shirt (RUN AWAY) I imagine it a very scary phrase So please what is your opinion in the gift

take look : https://www.etsy.com/listing/666584494/alien-shirt-alien-tee-shirts-space-shirt?ref=shop_home_active_1