What Kind of a World!

I am OK with continuing with David- except it centers on one character too much. On the other hand, the Quadrilogy centered on Ellen, so who is to say. Is David the new Ellen in that regard? David is certainly an interesting and complex character.

The Alien should have a role but it doesn't need to be the main thing. It is called Alien after all.

Uh oh, I wrote a looooooooooooooooooooooong comment. But it was all erased.

So, I will be brief.

I don't have a problem with a David's world and his experiments. No doubt - it will be interesting. But just a part of a film. Setting. Background.

And I don't understand how David and biomechanics can be related. David are synthetic organism - artificial organic. He just doesn't have "it" for a biomechanical elements. But the Last Engineer - has it. Yesterday I got figure of the Engineer and this the second cool staff after original Big Chap. And Engineers can be related with Derelict's xenomorphs. So I think you are right when you talks about LV-223.

And if David's world in any case will have a biomechanical aesthetic  (or get it after infestation) - it will be a wet dream movie. ;)

WHAT KIND of a World David would create?

A plain and simple one.

The HR Giger Aesthetic illustrates the home world of the Xenos. A journey to their world may be the subject of a later episode.

Probably will be like an open air museum of horrors, with many failed experiments, an extension of his lab from planet 4. I don't see him create something biomechanical, nothing of sorts was seen on planet 4.

Even the Deacon was not biomechanical like the Big Chap, so no idea were from the biomechanical traits.

4 Alien films are expected in the next decade. If they use all concepts in the next part there will be nothing left to show in later episodes. My expectations are low.

4 Alien films are expected in the next decade.

That is wishful thinking, right?

A set of 4 films (including Covenant Awakening) is a completely realistic expectation. The Alien franchise has many concepts which can be explored. 

I think the New Jersey High school stands a way better chance of their Alien play encore happening before an Alien movie as of right now. I would welcome being proven wrong though.

"Probably will be like an open air museum of horrors, with many failed experiments, an extension of his lab from planet 4"

Certainly thats what i was thinking ;)

I think a lot of us could say while Prometheus was more Mechanical than Organic in Terms of Engineers Technology, i think Fans Gradually Accepted it, and were Disappointed that Planet 4 appeared to lack this Engineer Technology Aesthetic.  I am sure many would have envisioned a Bio-Mechanical World.

The Fire and Stone comics showed us what a WORLD could be like once the Black Goo had taken Hold.... but with Alien Covenant they had it that it would only effect the MEAT or Organic Life, and not Plant Life (Spores are Fungi) I think expecting a ALIEN like World like the OT Banner is a Far Stretch at present, but once things go to POT then its something that a World could Evolve too in Future.

I think when we look at it from Davids point of view, and accept he has a Creator Agenda, to be Godlike, then from a Creator/Designer point of view, having a World Ripe with Life thats Unaffected that you can take Various Lifeforms and Experiment with, would be more ideal, than experimenting with Life that may have already been MASS infected.

Some of the Concept Work by Carlos Huante for a earlier draft of Alien Covenant, had shown David had experimented on Various Life on Paradise, but these certainly lacked a lot of the Xenomorph DNA/Aesthetic that the Mutations we saw in Prometheus had...

They looked very toned down, but certainly some had similarities to each other (these concepts) but not really to the Xenomorph/Deacon DNA..... but then if he could revert the Black Goo or Extract from it the Same Effects as we saw the Sacrificial Goo, then this stuff can basically Cross Hybrid any Life-form and so does not have to have any Xeno/Deacon DNA

If we saw such Experiments like this in Alien Covenant, or its sequel i think maybe Fans would have a right to Question their lack of Xenomorph DNA and related to the LV-223 Experiments.

But if they had the DNA of the LV-223 Experiments, then i think that would be more appeasing, as we saw with the Fire and Stone Comics.

I think what we have to look at is David and what would he create if he wanted to have his OWN impact on Life on a World, so that he can take Credit for Evolving/Engineering Life.

I think he would want to Perfect the Life on a World, and i would assume that when he looked at the Deacon he saw Potential in its Traits, which he then Engineered to get the Xenomorph... i would think that he would see his Xenomorph as having Almost Perfect Traits to then apply these to the Life on a World.

So i think it  makes more sense if say David Engineered some Animals they would have at least 25% Xenomorph DNA/Traits.  Or even if they had some HR Giger Aesthetic to them, but less Mechanical.

To continue with the above....

I think if we look at our Engineers, indeed the LV-223 Engineers had some Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic to the Suits, and the Under Suit they wore you could see some resemblance to the Xenomorph.

There was a connection, maybe in detail thats a whole different Debate... but at the time of Prometheus they must have both been Engineered from the same Source or one comes from the other.

with Ridley Scott saying the Planet 4 Plain Jane Engineers are the Originals then we can look at the LV-223 either Genetically Engineered a Suit that attached to them, or there entire body was Engineered to evolve to that look.

I think in context to the OT...  David would see such Enhancements and Traits are something interesting to USE with his experiments.

When he saw the LV-223 Engineers and their Technology he appeared to be Impressed by these Advancements... when he saw the Planet 4 Engineers he may have felt they was a Step-Back from the Enhancements and Technology they had achieved.

So i think if David would be looking at Perfection, regardless of his Creations, i think he would see to a degree his Xenomorph DNA as something that could be applied to EVOLVE other Life on Origae-6, which could give us a bit more of that ALIENY Aesthetic.

Once something like this happens that carries or mutates to have a lot of Xenomorph Traits and lets say would start to Secrete the Substance/Change the Planet to have that more Xenomorph Hive like Construction Aesthetic.

Regarding the Bio-Mechanical Aspect.... i think the Plan was that this is something the Engineers had achieved or had Engineered their Technology off...   We have to remember at the time or Prometheus the Xenomorph had been around for Thousands of Years.

Yes we had Lindeloff and others say the Deacon was the Proto-Morph well Precursor to the Xenomorph, but this likely meant the DNA within the Black Goo and maybe the Mural and NOT a direct descendant of Dr Shaws Trilobite.

But as we are heading for the route that David Kick-Starts the Xenomorph Origins (lets assume at least) then having David Transfer his AI Soul into a Walter Model, and if the Walter Models are a Synthetic Construct like Elden from Fire and Stone... then thats a Convenient Route to obtain a Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph from a Bio-Mechanical Synthetic Host.

BigDave, I don't know if David notes are based on what was discussed on set during production of Prometheus/ Alien Covenant, but the passage below confirms that the virus/xenomorph have the same origin and the Enginners were concerned to get the biomechanical traits of the xenomorph with their experiments on LV223, that is why those Enginners looked much like the xenomorph than the plain jane engineers from planet 4. We can now see why Ridley Scott said those on planet 4 were the originals and those from LV223 were more like David or replicants.

Also the passege below can explain that David created his own xenomorph.

Same passage might give a clue that the cruel rituals of the Enginners were meant to achieve the glorious synthesis and poetic culmination of the species 

"Returning to the notion of integration and biomechanical concerns, I would posit that lessons learned here could and should be applied to the ultimate maturation of the Engineers’ direction if not their literal fate. Through the virus / Xenomorph as glorious synthesis and poetic culmination of the species. And an amusing biblical one at that. Though not quite linear due to my own inheritance."

I think David knew the Enginners from LV223 were like him, and those from planet 4 were like the humans who banished, who knows, the AI like him. A paradise without AI was a rotten paradise for David.

Which world are we talking about?

There could be many worlds with the David Model Population in 2073 being over 8 million, below. (unofficial, source material from weylandindustries.com, Steve Burg Concept Art)

"Even the Deacon was not biomechanical like the Big Chap, so no idea were from the biomechanical traits."

Great examples daliens. I believe Walter plays a part in the transition to biomechanical because he seemed to show traits of both synthetic and organic.

"But as we are heading for the route that David Kick-Startsthe Xenomorph Origins (lets assume at least) then having David Transfer his AI Soul into a Walter Model, and if the Walter Models are a Synthetic Construct like Elden from Fire and Stone... then thats a Convenient Route to obtain a Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph from a Bio-Mechanical Synthetic Host."

That route does have many ties to what we've seen in the comics BigDave. There is magnificent scope with this topic's question.

Now, after seeing concepts in the Prometheus: Fire and Stone (below) show up in Alien: Covenant, I believe we will see more of the concepts seen in comics manifest in films and/or a TV series.

"Probably will be like an open air museum of horrors, with many failed experiments, an extension of his lab from planet 4." 

I would love to see that again daliens...see example below on LV-223 many years after the Prometheus mission.

The comics may give a glimpse of what kind of world may be created but it would be really nice to be surprised as to what "kind" of world is unveiled later on. 

"I think David knew the Enginners from LV223 were like him,"

I am not 100% sure about that at the Time of Prometheus, but maybe its likely he discovered more after...

I did however notice the Engineer had pity towards David, and a interest but Ultimately had to Destroy him... to me that scene did come across as though maybe the Engineers saw himself in David (so they were similar) or the Engineers had created similar to David with great Consequences.

In Feb 2015 the Source i had, did claim that the Engineers (i assume LV-223) had more in common with David than Humans, which was a odd and interesting statement.

When looking at RS and his comments about the Planet 4 Engineers being the Originals and then when talking in context to the Sequel and AI, and saying Roy Baty and Rachael were AI  then i am very much drawn to the LV-223 Engineers being a Genetically Engineered/Enhanced Group Created to Serve those Planet 4 Engineers.

And Certainly.... there was a connection between the Black Goo/LV-223 and the Deacon which had led to the Xenomorph too...   Regardless if you look at the Prometheus Route (Ancient) or Alien Covenant Route (Created by David) they both suggest the Xenomorph was a Off-Shoot of the Experiments conducted on LV-223.

BigDave I am equally interested in the origin of the black goo as I am in that of the Space Jockey and the derelict full of eggs (even if until recently I wanted the SJ to remain a mistery).

I think Sir Ridley Scott might have had some plans to explain things since he had in mind 3-4 films after Prometheus. 

But unless he started writing his memoirs we might never have a chance to find out what was in his mind.

And I would want the Advent expanded, even with flashback scenes, to understand what the hell were the Enginners doing

Well he certainly thought he could make another 6 Alien Movies.

As far as the Prequels he said we are about 3 away from Alien, some reports had him say 2-3 more movies, others 3-4 more movies.

Unless some of these will be set before ALIEN but go off on a bit a different Tangent, i cant see WHY/HOW we need another 2-3 Movies after Alien Covenant before we arrive at the Back Door of ALIEN.

Lets look at the Situation....

If David is off to Origae-6 this will mean he arrives 10 years before Alien... do we have enough time in 10 years to tell 2-3 more Stories before we get to the Period when the Nostromo is on its way to LV-426?

Otherwise if David goes to LV-223/426 Instead or we have a movie set on the Journey to Origae-6 then we have about 17 years to fit in 2-3 Movies.

I think TWO movies to connect to ALIEN is all thats needed.  But i think RS would be looking at other avenues to expand and give us 4-6 Movies.

So that would likely be if only 2-3 would cover what happens to the Covenant, its Crew/Colonist and David, between the year 2105 (End of Alien Covenant) and 2122 (ALIEN) i feel any other plans would maybe cover different things.

BigDave There are many good points here, but I would think almost no proper theatrical movies would be made.  

It seems the story would have to be done by other means considering all of those plot points listed.

If we are 3 movies away from Alien, we would be about 15 years away from that considering the time between Prometheus and AC. Will RS be around to direct? 

I don't think the Alienverse will end anytime soon. Considering current viewing habits and trends, I would think the series will not continue in theaters and actually flourish with books, comics, streaming etc...

A world where they collect toilet paper that they paint in different colors and where perverted reptiles dance to disco music dressed as unicorns with ears on their butt-cheeks. ;)

To me it seems boring so I kind of make fun of it.

What if he erects statues of himself if he sees himself as a king or something similar? What ever it might be we will probably see a planet that has gotten rid of humans the way they are in their present state. Artificially made humans? It is nothing that I would like to see in a movie if it will be about David, yuck.

Personally I think that the dislike is very justified, he is an asshole, and he gets most of the screen-time. Combine this with human characters that are poorly written and you get a movie that is made for a dislike of the android and a dislike for the movie in general even though some parts are OK.

I don’t want a movie about David, that is not why I watch these. Go back and see what made let’s say 85, Clemens, Vasques, Ripley, and so on work and try to develop it from there without copying it. Right now there is no one to support, not a single character. Maybe they want us to care about David but he is like a Goebbels so forget that. Alien Covenant made him worse compared to Prometheus. Not a single damn given from me about what kind of world that he wants to make.

Sure it would have been nice to see more Giger stuff in Covenant but that was far from my biggest complaint about it. I got to say that I was not very impressed with the Engineer planet.

“So its possible David could take the Planets Life, and try to Create his OWN from it, or Evolve it..... so we could see him PLAY that Dr. Moreau all over again... “

Maybe, but I don’t want a movie about that. Not interested, don’t care. Some people might like it, I am just stating my opinion. Having more Giger monsters would be interesting however that would not be enough for me to enjoy it but I understand that we all appreciate different things and have different priorities.

“I would love to see either David play the Dr. Moreau again...” - BD

I understand that we all have our interests when it comes to the franchise but I would say a ten times No at least. Having it about David made the whole situation worse.

“… or if not David then i would like to see him Create some things and then see the Engineers take these and play the HR Giger Dr. Moreau on LV-223.” - BD

That would be better, the Engineers are interesting but David is just crazy. If it would be like that then cut down on the screen-time of David, more Engineers please but they must make sense and be well done.

4 movies? In the prequel series? They will be lucky if they will get to do one more with the mess that they have created this far. If I would be a boss at let’s say Disney and have a franchise that is on shaky ground I would really wonder if I would allow one more. A maximum of one other prequel is what I would allow if we look at the profits and how people have responded to them.
As Leto said it could be a small part of the movie but not what it is about if it would be included at all.

Um yeah, I would prefer more short-movies instead of having it about androids.

You are a very difficult customer, madam.

"If we are 3 movies away from Alien, we would be about 15 years away from that considering the time between Prometheus and AC. Will RS be around to direct?"

Certainly is the Big Point... HOW could he fit another few movies that are going to Chronologically link to ALIEN?

Had Alien Awakening got the Green Light and Produced (so if Alien Covenant had made at least 50% more than it had).  I think 2019 would have been the Earliest we would have seen the Sequel.   And if we are off to Origae-6 and assume the movie takes place on this World, then the Covenant would not arrive until the Year 2122... which leaves 10 years before ALIEN.

We have to ASSUME... unless they use any Time-Travel/Tear in Space... Plot... that the Derelict has been on LV-426 for more than a Few Months...

So a 8-9 Year Period would pass/be covered from the Covenant Arriving on Origae-6 until the Derelict arrives on LV-426.   This would be HARD to make more than TWO Movies to Span that Time-Frame.

A New Prequel Trilogy could be a squeeze (Alien Covenant 1-3)  but i cant see how more than 3 movies (inc Covenant) would fit into a 17 Year Period (consider 7+ of them will be getting to Origae-6).   This would be effected more/limited depending on WHEN the Covenant arrives at Origae-6 and WHEN the Derelict lands on LV-426. 

Without showing Davids Xenomorphs are Different, or Time-Travel, then these events would Transpire over a 9-10 Year Maximum Period.

I feel the other Movies would likely had been Parallel to a series of 1-2 sequels to Alien Covenant.  And so cover other goings on in the Time-Line of 2105-2122 or other things that occur between 2122-2179

Ridley Scotts Age i feel is a Factor... IF he was to play a role in another 1-2 ALIEN Prequels then he would have to get to work on them within 2-6 Years.  I just cant see Ridley Scott Directing in say 10 years time.

Thoughts_Dreams

Certainly you are not alone with people being not interested in a David Focused World!  Some are Wishfully thinking David does-not create the Xenomorph... maybe this can be changed.

The KIND OF WORLD idea for this Plot... could be what kind of a World is Discovered by a incoming Human Mission, compared to what they had thought that Origae-6 would be.

So you could have a World that is set in a Time AFTER things have got out of Control...    a World where David is what we saw of Dr Shaw.. a Corpse of just Missing!

I ponder if David is to arrive at Origae-6 he could see the World as a Good Starting Point, compared to the Contaminated Planet 4.   It appears David is very interested in Creation.... he has a lot of Genetic Material to Experiment with on the Covenant, but also what other Life-forms are on Origae-6 that he could want to EVOLVE/PERFECT.

A World David would Create to his own Preferences and he is bound to see the POTENTIAL in his Experiments and Xenomorph as far as the Traits his Creation has that could be a Evolution to the Life on Origae-6

WE could introduce a more Xenomorph/ALIEN Aesthetic to these Creations/World, something more HR Giger...

And so its not quite about what David would Create... but WHAT happens in the Aftermath of such things...   Tampering with LIFE that would imprint some Traits of the Xenomorph could have Dire Consequences. 

Look at our Humble Worms that become Hammerpedes!

So Evolving  a World, that not only be Humanoids, but other Life-Forms could be a BAD idea if these Organisms have traits of the Deacon/Xenomorph...  and you can see anyone attempting to so this would STRUGGLE to contain/control such a WORLD.

So what happens when things go to POT!

So it does-not have to be based around DAVID and when he is doing all this stuff... we could ARRIVE at this World long after the Effects of Davids Experiments get out of Control and so we DONT even have to have David in it.

BEFORE... we got Alien Covenant.. i am pretty sure we all could Speculate on what happens when a WORLD is contaminated with the Black Goo... and while we see this with the Neomorph Spores...  i think many Fans would have NOT expected such a Limited Aftermath...

You would have been drawn to the Worlds LIFE and Fauna to had been replaced by some Horrors... and not just BBQ Engineers.

Fire and Stone showed us what a World could look like after the Black Goo..... i think we could ponder what IF we see Origae-6 have similar happen... and WHAT happens when a Human Ship arrives at the AFTERMATH!

We still need some Answers.... and so Discovering a Disabled David to just activate and get some information from like they did with Bishop in Alien 3 is something they could explore....

The LONGER a sequel takes... the more likely this would be Davids Role/Fate!

I think we have to look at the PLOT of Alien Covenant, ignoring all the David/Planet 4 stuff (Alien Covenant Origins Book for example).

We have a Large Group of Humans who wish to abandon Earth and the Kind of World that has become, in pursuit of a New Haven, a New Eden a Paradise to Start a New Life.

Are the Covenant Crew the only ones aware of Origae-6? 

Nope! and its possible others would want to go to Origae-6 too,  and in any such Colonization Venture if you Determine the World is Totally Earth like...  and so a Mission jut has to arrive and start to Build/Set Up Infrastructure  begin to Plant Earth Food/Crops.

Then its likely a Secondary Mission would be planned to arrive years latter to deliver more Cargo, Food, Equipment etc etc. Plus some extra Human Colonist.

We can PONDER that this incoming Ship would be expecting a World that is close to Earth like, where the Covenant Ship would have already had been on for a number of years.

So it would be interesting WHAT Origae-6 would actually be like by the time this OTHER Ship arrives.

Ridley Scott claimed there would be 3-4 Incoming Parties... now by Virtue of a 3/4 must imply that ONE Party is similar..  so it could be the 3rd/4th are Alternative Human Ships or Alternative Engineer Ships... but then it could be WALTER (from Planet 4) ...which i doubt but could be. 

David as Walter had informed Mission Control if you would that the Covenant is continuing on its Mission to Origae-6.

David as David had informed via Secure Link someone at Weyland-Yutani of who he is and what he has been up to.

I think its highly likely that ONE of the Human Ships would NOT be prepared and would be expecting to Find the Covenant Colony Set-Up on a very Earth like World.

What kind of a WORLD would they arrive at?  I feel this ANGLE they have to go with, from the incoming Humans Perspective... much like Alien Covenant was from the Covenant Missions Perspective (it was not set about the 10 year period of what David was up to.. but AFTER).

Yes at a latter point the Weyland-Yutani would turn up with knowledge of what happened...  the Advent Message... but its likely they would also send Missions to LV-223 and Planet 4.

so WHAT KIND OF A WORLD... would there be to Discover when the other Human Ship arrive would be the best way to go..

We could end up with a very similar Plot to Raised by Wolves, in context to a Human Colony or Engineered Humans that are raised by David and FED what ever lies he had given them....  For those who DONT want a David movie, well a Aftermath could show what happens when these Beings had Revolted Against David...

This would be more interesting if they are NOT your traditional Humans but Enhanced... and even if David is GONE by the time we start our Movie.... its HOW do those Enhanced Humans who now call Origae-6 Home react to incoming Humans from Earth?

But as i have said this would be a Distraction from ALIEN unless these beings were LESS-HUMAN or at some point we get the introduction of some Horrors of other Experiments David had conducted...

I feel HOWEVER that most Alien Fans would rather see a incoming Human Ship arrive at a World that would be kind of like a Worse Case than turning up to Planet 4 and coming across the SPORES and Davids Eggs in the Cathedral/Citadel

In this case... it cant be a World that LOOKS like the OT Banner.... BUT it could become a World like this after the incoming Humans stumble upon a HORROR that gets loose and out of control...

Or the Banner is what HAPPENS after the Engineers Turn up too.

David said what he doesn't give a second chance for humans. But with Enhanced humans we have a second chance.

I think - David will be use the colonists in his experiments with Aliens. And Xenomorphs (we also knew it from Covenant) are priority one for David. This is what David wants. Xenomorphs will rule the universe. Not enhanced humans - they role be an incubators for Aliens. And maybe spread xenomorphs throughout the universe.

Well we can indeed assume this to be the case from what we had seen in ALIEN COVENANT.

Ridley Scotts comments seem to point to something different... and it would not be about Xenomorphs... (this does-not rule out any appearance or development of Eggs). He said the next movie would be more about AI in which case we cant assume thats just about him or Robots..

Now he could create a variant of the Xenomorph, that would also be a AI... just as the Xenomorph is.

I have said this a number of times, now they have gone the ALIEN Prefix Prequel route the Expectation is there for there to be some Xenomorphs and certainly Set-Up a event that drives us ONE movie perhaps from ALIEN, certainly a movie that would have to be more ALIENY... otherwise i think a lack of ALIEN Aesthetic and No Xenomorphs would appear to NOT be a ALIEN Movie, not what some fans would expect and could be a Distraction...  They have to find the Right Balance.

I think Disney are going to assess what they think is needed in a sequel IF they continue, and i am sure they would take on board more Fans Disappointments, rather than Carry on with what Ridley Scott wanted to do.... unless they feel what he wants would be what the Fans would want and PAY to see.

Maybe there has to be some Compromise?

But ignoring what Ridley Scott had said... going by Alien Covenant and the Advent Video, then it does seem to suggest David has ONE Agenda on his Mind.

Perfect and Multiply his Xenomorphs so he can Conquer the Galaxy with them.

When looking at HOW we could tackle Hybrids, if we wanted to add a bit more Alieny Aesthetic to them...  then i came across these TWO Fan Made Busts.

This one is similar to the New Born, but looks more Menacing to me...  its by Mangrasshopper

This one thats similar to what you would expect from a Neomorph/Human Hybrid by ForbiddenScrolls

This one actually looks a bit like the IDEA had in my head for a Hybrid in one of the Stories i had thought of a Few Years ago that would have been a Parallel Alien 4, the idea i had would have been like this but more of a Elongated Head, and something Body Wise would have looked like a Cross Between the Neomorph/Proto-Xenomorph, well the Failed Ripley 4/5 and Clone Xenomorph at the time i was thinking of this Idea.

It shows the scope to introduce Hybrids, and having something a little Different.

I think the second model is better- it might look even creepier if it had human flesh tone instead of the greenish shade here. It should also make some weird sounding human like noises- almost like it is trying to speak- a bit like the Newborn.

One thing that bothers me about seeing the eye sockets is that there should be eyes in them or else they are kind of pointless.  

These 2 hybrids, they look too dumb to be scary. It's like a facehugger stumbled upon a mummy and the Mask.

Hmm....I like that greenish one (not your pic daliens).

But whatever is dripping out of its mouth looks too thick to be android blood so........................