Are the Eggs on LV-426 Still There?

A problem is the vastness of the "cargo hold". When Kane is lowered down into it, it looks more like a huge cave. In your picture, Gavin, with the Space Jockey very high up, everything under it would be the "cargo hold". All three openings would lead into the "cargo hold".

@chli,

...or a series of corridors and a shaft adjacent to the cargo hold, leading to the pilot's chamber atop the cargo hold.

Prometheus

The below images may help with scale in regards to the pilot's chair and the recess it resides in.

The Prometheus Crew entering into the pilot's chamber below is almost level with the openings on the side of the juggernaut.  This is a different ship but the internal layout may be the same.

Kane’s Descent

“Out of breath again he paused in his descent to run a check of his suit instrumentation. ‘Interesting,’ he said into his pickup. ‘I’m below ground level’.”

Alien novelization (1979), page 80.

Ingeniero

I agree and in the novelization, there is no ascension after they enter the Derelict. The pilot room is huge with a high ceiling and as you point out, there must also be room for the pilot chair to be lowered down.

In the novelization, Kane is lowered down with a cable and there is first a very long hole that he descends through. Then, he enters the huge open space and they argue whether it's part of the ship or something else under it (a cave or a silo).

If there is a bulge on the Derelict going under ground level, then there must be a hole in the ground which fits it (but I don't think we see that kind of bulge on any juggernauts). So the answer must be that there is a cave or a silo under the Derelict (but with the same kind of esthetics).

But, of course, we have to take the problem of making the film into account and the history of different scripts etc . . .

@ Ingenrio,

Compelling evidence, that could sway me back to the belief that the derelict was docked atop a subterranean structure similar to the domes on LV-223, but first, an observation for everyone to explain based on the images in your post...

The chair doesn't fit underneath the pilot's chamber.

I think its a little difficult to come to a EXACT Measurement of the Derelict because we have the Following.

*Large (ish) External Prop of the Derelict

*Larger Outdoor Set of the Entrance

*Internal Set of the Pilot Chamber (does not show full shot)

*Internal close up set of the Egg Hold (same as Pilot Room)

*Matt Painting used for the Descent into the Cargo Hold.

Each shot the Scale is NOT really Uniform..

The above Image shows Little Figurines intended to show the Scale which would put the Derelict about the 155ft Height Mark, but if we go by how BIG the Nostromo Crew where compared to the Entrances then we get a Height of 120ft Approx.  The Debate about SCALE and so IF the Cargo Hold Fits really RESTS down to TWO Shots, and they are....  The Crew Entering the SHIP and the shot of Kane Descending.  You cant really use the Pilot Room shots as we get TWO Scales... the First Shots (used Child Actors) and the Close Up Shots (Adult Actors) so thats a Scale Change of 40-50%

As far as HOW the Entered, as Gavin pointed out we cant 100% Gauge how FAR the Walk was until they Climbed Up into the Pilot Chamber.... and also it looked like for a Part of the Entrance it was on a Incline, before it Straightened out a bit... then they Climbed up.

Its also difficult to use the Schematic of the Juggernaught as they are TWO different Ships as far as Dimensions go, i will do a Image Next if we Accept its the same Layout as the Juggernaught.

I have also Gavin taken the Image you did, and Scaled a SHOT from the Movie to the Same Size and Position and then Scaled the Egg Cargo Shot to the Same Scale.

Its HARD to really Gauge the True Size as the Best Comparison we could do is SCALE the Egg Chambers Kane and the Images of Dallas, Lambert and Kane as they ENTER the Derelict and Scale them to the Same Size.  And match them to same Scale with the Space Jockey Scene Shot.

As for the Bulkspace between Floors i have watched ALIEN again and to me it has to be between 1.5M and 3M

Looking at the Pilot Chair in Prometheus i think it would FIT

The Scale i did was to compare to the Tunnel Height leading up to the Pilot Room and Scaled the Schematic of the Chair to it...  NOW the True Chair may have a Slightly Different Scale, or if its accurate the SCALE i have USED could be a bit too Large so the Chair could be a bit Smaller than i had shown.

In either case i think its Highly Likely the Chair can FIT under the Pilot Room...  But there is NO WAY the Cargo Hold in ALIEN can FIT under the Juggernaught Pilot Room ;)

Back to the Derelict..... if we go for a Underground Cargo Hold then this Cargo Hold would ONLY be as TALL as the Derelict approx.  The other OPTION as i mentioned before is if the Derelict has a PART of it that is Buried and it is SHOWN that this is another 60ft, or even 40ft Min then we can Suspend our Disbelief a little.

I said this on another Topic...

If this is a Bio-Weapon and its PART of the Ship then HOW do they Deploy it? Bounce the Eggs?

Manually Take them outside? or do they have a Device for that?  or is it a Suicide Mission where the Pilot Remains wit the Ship and waits for some Inhabitants of the World to come and Wonder on the Ship and make it to the Cargo Hold?

If we assume the Ship is Docked at a Underground Egg Silo, then its a case of HOW do they get the Eggs to and from that Place?  Storage would not be a Problem if the Derelict is like the Juggernaught as we can then assume the Eggs are collected from the Underground Silo and Stored in Cargo Holds Located connected to the Pilot Room and in the ARM Sections. (like the Juggernaught appears to have).

I still think a Detachable Cargo Hold would be the Best Option to explain it and make sense as a SAFE Weapon to Deploy.

EDIT:

Derelict to Scale of SHOTS of Lambert, Dallas and Kane as they Enter the Derelict, and also the Pilot Chamber and Kane as he is Lowered into the Egg Chamber.

Looking at this i would say the Derelict needed about another 30-60ft (Depends on TOTAL Height of the Pilot Room) or our Humans in Each Shot need to be about 4ft!

Looking at the Pilot Chair in Prometheus i think it would FIT

This is already contrary to Alien: Covenant.

You forgot about one important thing. In AC, when David bombards Engineers (or Covenant crew enters the ship) - the bomb hatch is also located in the center of the ship. Directly under the control cabin. And the bomb hatch is also pretty large compartment. On Juggernaut hologram in Prometheus just no place for this compartment. It is not there at all!

So, a logical conclusion suggests itself. The Juggernauts in Prometheus and AC have different structures, compartments and sizes. If so, then the Juggernaut and Derelict may also have different parameters. Therefore, you cannot use the sizes, holograms and scheme of Juggernaut from Prometheus to explain the structure of the Derelict. They are different.

chli

A L I E N 

The matte painting you kindly offered from the movie is depicting a huge subterranean area which bends to the left and then bends to the right before finally swinging to the left. If for instance, you consider the number of ovoids there are from left to right it would make the width of the area between 75 and 100 metres.

P R O M E T H E U S

As you know from the Making of Prometheus documentary artistic licence was applied to the scale of the dead pilot, he is 8 feet tall and the craft although identical visually is smaller. The depth and height of the craft are 27 metres with the additional circular detail and dome taking us to 30 metres. To give some context you could place 4 1/2 Airbus A 380's on top of each other inside the craft.

Scale. 

One of the magical elements of cinema is making a space look bigger than you imagine it. In that context, the entire Pilot Chamber/Ampule Room in P R OM E T H E U S was built on the 007 Stage at Pinewood which is 12 to 15 metres high. So the ampule room and bridge are with a  CGI canopy for the latter no more than 18 metres high. Anyone who has been in a room 18 metres high will know that feels huge for a person at less 2 metres high. 

None of this had anything to do with Prometheus: The Furious Gods where in my original very long forward I explain how I take design elements of all three craft (A/P/AC) and blend them for key storytelling elements.   

The thousands of Eggs look like they're in a huge silo and to me, that is what the Matte Painting conveys. 

PS The reveal of the Gantry in Prometheus was a fabulous visual coup of Ridleys to say "see this is where the derelict and its pilot comes from" but it lacks ergonomic logic but hey this is entertainment.    

It was indeed a fabulous visual coup, but I don't know why you say it lacks ergonomic logic. What is the point of having a pilot's chair getting in the way of things until it is actually needed? Put it in a cupboard under the floor! In my opinion, having the chair appear from a hidden compartment was a nice 'alien technology' touch.

So, after 40 years of debate whether or not the egg silo is part of the derelict or a separate structure remains unanswered.

Yet rather than explore this Scott instead wants to further explore a relatively newly introduced character while retroactively undoing the mystery and alien nature of the first movie.

Still, at least the Alien movies have never killed off any main characters as Dark Fate has... oh shit wait!?!

hox

As "we are them they are us" the logic would be they clear the chair away so they can do what?

OK, let's accept that idea.

In the context of the story, David had found they were in the process of leaving when everything went to pot. The pilots must have been in station, they were wearing their helmets and ran for there lives. One of them, not the pilot, had already entered stasis so departure was imminent.

If the craft were not about to leave then why have the chair hidden away and the consul in place? They clearly are part of the command hub of the vehicle.

What is communicated to me is once the pilot is in lockdown with the helmet on he remains connected to the crafts control systems throughout the flight? So the only time you would clear the decks of chairs is when the craft is unused for long periods of time, this was not such a time.  

I remain of the view it is a great theatrical coup for the ALIEN audience looking on waiting for connections.       

Once we get down to real math...I'm not sure anything fits Gavin.  I think that's why I liked your (if memory serves) spatial dimension expansion juggernaut theory a while back...similar to the "Forever Bag" from Thundercats in concept.  The theory seemed to address all the unreconcilable measurements, projections.

So I believe you're correct regarding an upright chair fitting under the pilot's chamber.   The chair may be at an angle, winding out into place, similar to the larger ship on Planet 4 rising out of an impossible recess seen below.

Wayne Haag

Juggernaut Opening

"Directly under the control cabin. And the bomb hatch is also pretty large compartment. On Juggernaut hologram in Prometheus just no place for this compartment. It is not there at all!"

The room you describe Leto may be this room below.

I believe the urns fall out of these stacks then roll up the walls to coalesce above, ready to drop like we saw on Planet 4 in Alien: Covenant. 

Thank you for bringing it up...the sequence is amazing.

Alien: Isolation

The ovomorph cavern is pretty clear in the Alien: Isolation short around the 2:00 mark.  The opening looks melted when looking back up at the tripod.

Below are still shots from the short film enhanced to bring out details in the ovomorph cavern walls, depth.  

The novels describe the slime falling off the Xenomorphs collecting to form their signature environment.  

Whatever melted out of the Space Jockey chamber might have started the processes that eventually filled out the massive space.

@Michelle, Who knows? Maybe they have a disco in there before departure. Or they have a little congregation to have a look at the map, in the same way that David did.

It is clear from the end of Prometheus that the pilot's chair can be swung into action in a matter of minutes. In a very ergonomic manner!

Two Engineers had entered stasis in the Pilot room. The revived one, as we know, and another whose pod was breached by a large hole. Whether that was from inside or out, we don't know.

Since we don't know what happened in the final moments before the apparent demise of the Pilot, we can only guess where he was and what he was up to.

Certainly LETO there are some Inconsistencies... we get this quite a bit and its the reason we have such Discussions as this, due to Production not really being VERY Consistent, i think most of the Time we are expected to just see this as Oversight.

So you make a Valid Point, in that we Should-Not use the Juggernaught to try and Figure Out the Internal Dimensions and Schematics of the Derelict.  They are TWO separate Ships, and Ridley Scott said they are Separated by a Few Hundred Years... i would argue that the Technology would NOT change that much for a Race who have been using these Ships for Many Thousands of Years and so having them be Thousands of Years apart makes more Sense, but then who is to say they are NOT produced around the same Time but are Different, as NOT every Car or Plane or Ship on Earth are the Same.

@Michelle

The Good Thing about the Ambiguity, the Comments by Kane and what Ridley Scott had said, is that by the TIME we eventually get Answers it leaves it open to SHOW the Cargo Hold as either Inside the Ship or Separate, so when their is a Inconstancy and Shadow of Doubt it allows for things to be Changed and also for people to debate stuff and so actually the Flaws have been a Good thing.

You make a GREAT point about the Canopy... which is where in the NEW Movies they would add CGI over, but in ALIEN they dont show above this... only as far as the Descending to the Chamber by Kane in which case Matt Paintings are used.

I would assume the SET they used for the Egg Chamber covers about 50% of the Height we see from the Matt Painting Shot, and they use the same SET background for the Pilot Chamber which i assume we are only shown 60-75% of the Total Pilot Room Height/Structure.

@Ingeniero

Good Point with the Thundercats, i had suggested a Number of Times that maybe they posses Technology like the TARDIS from DR Who...  such a Revelation would be a Real Convenience for the Inconsistencies.

Something to Remember i feel is we are talking a VERY ANCIENT and ADVANCED Technology, if we look at the Opening in Alien Covenant as far as the Cargo Hold, it appears to OPEN from where there is NO visible HOLE prior.

So there Technology could allow for Cargo Holds and Interior Construction to MOVE, to Shrink and Grow.  In my previous post the Image i Posted, if we look at Images 3, 4 and 5 we can see there is a HOLE that appears in Image 3/4 that is NOT apparent on Image 5, its like the Material of the Ship can Morph.  So why cant Internally it do the same?

@hox

Back to the Differences, then we maybe should not be looking at WHY there are differences with the Derelict and Juggernaut, the Derelict seems to LACK any Cryo-Pods, well they are NONE in the Pilot Room, maybe this Different Ship has them Located in another Place?    Maybe it only has the Pilot Chair and requires just a SINGLE Pilot?

I really liked the Scene of the Raising Pilot Chair, and i cant see any reason why the Derelict could not have the same.

The Purpose of the Pilot Chair does remain a Mystery, is it something that is ONLY required for TAKING OFF?

Once David had placed Dr Shaw in Cryo-sleep he Wonders off and leaves the Pilot Chair unattended but raised.  He is also NOT at the Controls during the Bombardment Scene and so its likely not 100% Necessary to remain in the CHAIR for Deployment of the Cargo or to Fly the Ship... well for the Ship to Fly.

So in effect its USE could be similar to the Deployment and Retraction of the LANDING GEAR on a Airplane.

I have made a Final (Honest) Revision to a Potential get around the Cargo Hold.   Scenes are Scaled with each other and then i have attempted to MOVE the Pilot Chamber as High as i think it would go in order to keep with the % we see on Screen (SET Canopy Level), then placed Cargo Hold under that and i Estimate if the Derelict was 10M Taller then BOTH would FIT, so thats NOT as Big a Oversight.

This HOWEVER only Considers the Height... the other Dimensions such as how the Cargo Hold seems to Snake Around the Corner could be a PROBLEM still.

I have a Slight Work Around that would maybe Conflict the Bulge at the Bottom though.

Subterranean Area

In film as well as literary criticism, you can either judge or interpret what you actually see or read, or you can go outside the work to find answers (interviews with directors or scriptwriters e.g.). Or you can do both.

I agree with Michelle that Giger’s matte painting of the descending Kane depicts an enormous subterranean area filled with thousands, perhaps millions, of eggs. Kane himself says “A cave! A cave of some sort!”. This is what you actually see (or hear).

We all know that there have been different scripts (Star Beast e.g.) and there are economical as well as technical problems concerning scale etc. We have interviews with Scott. If I’m not mistaken, Scott mentioned that there was a connection between the Space Jockey, Derelict and the outbreak on LV-223 and that something in the cargo hold evolved (and got to the Space Jockey). That is what we get if we go outside the work itself. Then, the egg chamber is a part of the Derelict.

BigDave, I think you had a good picture series which showed that the Derelict doesn’t have a cargo hold under the (huge) pilot room. There are cargo holds in the “arms”, however. So, if we stick to this, and Kane is lowered down from the pilot room, it would have to be a subterranean area (or a separate silo)?

Certainly i agree the CARGO HOLD/SILO does look HUGE, but a thing to remember is Perspective the Camera shot gives the Greater Impression the Room is Large.

So i thought it would Warrant some Calculations.

Now while the Calculations of the Sections Width i think are Correct to a 0-15% Margin of Error, it really is HARD to Gauge how many of these Sections there are in the SHOT..... I had Marked up to the Corner where there has to be 6-8 Sections by then at 20-25 Feet a Section, i think we can RULE OUT any Chance of this Egg Chamber being PART of the Ship.

So looking at this then i think the Underground Storage Facility Theory becomes more VALID.

Any trying to WORKOUT where the Pilot and Egg Chamber should FIT in the Derelict as FAR as Height could be MOOT!  As it would seem the Compartments Length is the SMOKING GUN.

The only PROBLEM that is Raised NOW if we ASSUME there is NO WAY the Egg Hold can be Part of the Ship due to the WIDTH is that NOW we have to Assume the PILOT Room is more CLOSER to the BASE of the Derelict.