David Did Not Create the Xenomorph (Part 2)

chli
MemberChestbursterApril 13, 2019As we all know, in the original film Alien the crew of the USCSS Nostromo (on their way back to Earth), on company orders, investigate a signal coming from the moon LV-426. Captain Dallas, Kane and Lambert follow the beacon which is, in fact, a warning (in an alien signal system). They discover the Derelict and the eggs, and Kane is “infected” by a facehugger which eventually leads to the famous xenomorph.
According to this classic movie, the crew are woken, by “Mother”, because a new and strange signal has been detected. However, “Mother” should have detected the signal already on the way from Earth towards Thedus. Why didn’t “she”? The answer to this question seems to be that on Thedus, the original science officer is replaced by Ash, a company synthetic, whose main task it is to implement Special Order 937 (which “Mother” is also instructed to follow).
In the prequel Prometheus, we follow Sir Peter Weyland’s expedition to another moon in the same system, LV-223, due to the discoveries of maps found in old cave paintings by doctors Holloway and Shaw. However, in the extra material on the blue-ray version of Prometheus, namely “Quiet Eye: Elisabeth Shaw”, Sir Peter Weyland states:
“As fate would have it, Shaw and Holloway’s interest in Zeta 2 Reticuli has proven to be mutually beneficial. While the good doctors rely on ancient carvings and primitive cave paintings, my science division’s own long range scans have recently detected a faint, almost imperceptible signal emanating from one of the lesser moons in that system. And contrary to the findings of Shaw and Holloway, which target LV-223 as our primary site of interest, our findings suggest the point of origin could actually be the moon LV-426.
Per standard procedure, we will embed a David 8 unit with the crew. And he will be programmed with multiple contingency plans to address and exploit whatever assets we secure on LV-223. But only David will know about 426 and will ensure that the rest of the crew - including Meredith - learn nothing about the transmission we’ve recently discovered until the time is right.”
The beacon, or warning signal, from the Derelict on LV-426 is already there long before the Prometheus expedition! It is, therefore, impossible that David could be the creator of the eggs on LV-426! Hence, the Space Jockey is as old as Dallas claims it to be: “Looks like it's been dead a long time. Fossilized”. The most plausible explanation would be that the Space Jockey is at least as old as the engineer corpses on LV-223.
Furthermore, in Prometheus, the expedition discovers the engineer experimentation facility on LV-223. They find the body of an engineer, dead for about 2000 years. They find ampules containing a pathogen which mutates organisms into hideous creatures. On a wall, they find a mural depicting a ritual in which hominids (engineers or humans) are “sacrificed” in order to create the deadly xenomorph creature (The whole cycle is there: egg, facehugger, chestburster, and the xenomorph creature).
Later on in the movie, we see what the pathogen can achieve when David persuades Holloway to have a drink spiced with the pathogen. Through intercourse, Shaw is also infected and gives birth to a large “facehugger” (the trilobite) which in turn infects a still living engineer who “gives birth” to a xenomorph creature (the deacon).
Concerning the eggs on LV-426, they were lying in wait there long before David was even contemplated and created by Sir Peter Weyland. Millennia before the crew of the USCSS Nostromo lands on LV-426, the eggs were there, patiently waiting . . .
What does 10 years of isolation do to a synthetic? “When a note is off, it eventually destroys the whole symphony”. David, seeing himself as superior to both humans and engineers, has in the situation of “Crusoe on his island” developed delusions of grandeur, seeing himself as the creator of the “perfect organism”.
This creature, the “perfect organism”, was in fact discovered or created by the engineers aeons ago and which, as far as the engineers on Planet 4 goes, they had renounced from ever creating again.
So, David wants to believe that he is the creator of the wolf, “the perfect organism”, but “in reality” - David did not create the xenomorph!
chli He says he found his Queen, but I think it is a reference to the queen of Bathsheba, the desire for whom marks the Downfall of the Biblical king David. It might be possible that Daniels will birth something, but I don't thinl she will be made into a Cameron Queeen.
IgnorantGuy
David says: "But I've still one thing left to perfect", "My queen" (looking at Daniels).
David wanted to make Shaw into his "queen" as well, keeping her alive but mutated and experimented upon. Perhaps he used the eggs produced monthly by her (together with the pathogen) to make the xenomorph eggs?
There were perhaps 7 eggs in the basement which would then mean that Shaw was alive for about 7 months . . .
"we still have the issue of the Derelict (filled with thousands or millions of eggs and the space jockey looking fossilized)."
Absolutely as of the Time David had Tucked Daniels into BED so to speak we are 17.5 Years away from when the Nostromo Crew Discover the Derelict.
The Space Jockey/Derelict look like they had been there for MUCH longer than that, and indeed it was ORIGINALLY intended to had been there for Thousands of Years.
But ALAS things Change.... but they can also Change again... who knows IF we will see Disney offer a Explanation to the Derelict and IF they would make a U-Turn to Please Fans?
Regarding the Perfection of his Queen, for him to make this Statement he must feel PLEASED with his Xenomorph he just needs to Perfect a way to Procreate them.
Some Fans (usually on other sites) think this does mean we would be seeing the Creation of the Xenomorph Queen and this would explain the Many Thousands of Eggs.
Because WELL we see David has only TWO Face Huggers and 3000+ Good Souls.... so thats not going to be Many Thousands of Eggs and HOW does he Change those Colonist and Embryo's into Thousands of Eggs?
If we go by the ALIEN Franchise... we could assume.
*EGG MORPH but then its a case of if we would see TWO Xenomorphs going around and Egg Morphing Thousands of Humans...
*QUEEN this is more Easier, we could see someone Birth a Queen, why maybe the Space Jockey Births the Queen and lays all those Eggs... SIMPLE!
But i dont think Ridley Scott would be going the James Cameron Route!
David does appear to have a Interest in Daniels, he wants to do to Daniels what he did with Dr Shaw... which does-not just mean he wants to try an Kiss/Have Sex!
Its indicated that he required Dr Shaw to be able to achieve the Results that he had with his Xenomorphs. This could lead to some Speculations to HOW.
Some of David's Drawings could show us what he had done or attempted/had planned.
1) Infected Dr Shaw with one of his Xenomorphs, then Removed the Organism and Repeat... BUT then how does this explain the EGGS?
2) Used Dr Shaws Reproductive System/Egg Cells to Produce the Eggs.
3) Evolve Dr Shaw into a Hybrid to then Create the Eggs.
The Closest we saw to a XENOMORPH in Prometheus came from Dr Shaw, by Virtue of her Unnatural Child the Trilobite (a kind of Face Hugger).
So a GOOD Starting point for anyone Interested in Replicating a Deacon would be the Knowledge that either the Black Goo infects a Egg Cell or a Infected Sperm infects a Egg Cell.
Replicating this would be a Good Starting Point, but then you could attempt to Engineer/Evolve the Offspring, we also see how the Neomorph Procreated via the Spores and so David had likely created a Hybrid Neomorph and Deacon and Experimented Numerous Times to get the Xenomorph.. ONCE achieved he could maybe with the Black Goo Break this Organisms DNA down and apply this to the EGG CELLS to create the Eggs.
If this is kind of what happened, then David's comments would imply the Lengthy Process was Tedious and he needed to find a more Perfect Method.
so if Infecting a Humans Egg Cells to Produce Xenomorph Eggs was Tedious. Then maybe he could Ponder what happens if you have a Human Hybrid instead?
So that the Female is Part Xenomorph and would Pass on Traits to the Egg Cells, maybe if the Procreation Traits of the Organism are more Prominent than a Humans then the Egg Cells could automatically become Xenomorph Eggs instead. Which would be a Less Tedious method to obtain Eggs.
So maybe the above is some idea of the Queen that David wishes to Perfect and what FATE lies ahead for Daniels?
Of course the Lazy Route would be that David Engineers a Face Hugger to Produce a Traditional Queen, but i just DONT think this is something that Ridley Scott would have shown us.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave But David never saw the mature trilobite, only as a incentive thing in the womb using an ultrasound machine. He has never seen the deacon. He had only seen the neomorph which does not involve nothing sexual.
"more Perfect Method", if David would hear you, he would surely snap your neck.
Certainly this is NOT something i had overlooked, we have witnessed the Deacon but David has NOT..
However he had Witnessed that Dr Shaw who could not Bare Child had became Pregnant per-say with a None Traditional Fetus. David would likely be Curious to what would have became of Dr Shaws Child. We have to assume he could make out more from LV-223 than the Viewer Could....
And so cant rule out him wishing to Retry the Experiment that he had done on LV-223 but be around to see the Results.
Indeed he had witnessed the Neomorph which was created NOT via any Sexual Intercourse... But what we could also Ponder is that does David know for 100% what caused Dr Shaw's Trilobite?
If he was unsure he could maybe want to Discover what caused her to be able to Give Birth (Gestate) such a Creature.
*Was it a case of Infected Sperm, Fertilized one of her Egg Cells?
*Had Holloway only been the means to Transfer the Pathogen (maybe Eye-Worms) to Dr Shaw and THIS is what infected her Egg Cell?
*Or would these merely had been passed on as above but only Needed a Womb to Gestate and so NONE of her Egg Cells are involved?
Those are the 3 most likely Scenarios to HOW she came to grow the Trilobite inside of her. I think its ok to ask the Question of IF our David really knows what caused it. Or IF-NOT then would he maybe want to try and Replicate it?
Its all speculation but if you was in David's shoes and was willing to Experiment with the Neomorph and Black Goo, then we cant rule out him wishing to see what this stuff does to a Female Productive System.
""more Perfect Method", if David would hear you, he would surely snap your neck."
You certainly would not put that past him... i dont think he is the Type to Make and Keep Friends ;)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think we can rule out egg morphing since the route David has taken is the creation of his perfect queen (of Daniels). We saw in AC that David eventually managed to create xenomorph eggs by using Shaw’s body. It seems that he kept her alive but transformed. In “Advent” it seems that he plucks eggs from her body which is mixed with the pathogen (and perhaps neomorph DNA) eventually resulting in xeno-eggs (waiting for a host).
A female body can produce 12 eggs per year but perhaps David can speed up the process? Furthermore, half of the colonists are women (about 1000) . . . A human hybrid, as you propose BigDave is of course also possible. “She” would then produce the xeno-eggs directly (cesarean because of the size?) but still only 12 per year?
As for Holloway’s transmission of the “xeno-traits” to Shaw (her egg), I think it seems likely that Holloway’s body (his cells) is mutated, even his gametes.
Certainty and thats WHY i mentioned the Deacon being a Good Starting point, while David did-not see the End Result.
If we take this Scenario of David being interested in WHY and WHAT was happening to Dr Shaw, then if the GOO was needed to Infect Sperm Cells or even if the GOO just needed to be applied to Egg Cells, you could certainly consider David would like to try such Experiments.
The Neomorph was a Very Rapid Gestation, something to have little Control Over.
The Deacon Infection is different, in that it appears to be LIKELY a infection/evolution of a Human Egg Cell. What we also saw is that even though Dr Shaw had Terminated the Birth via C-Section the Trilobite had continued to Grow/Survive.
So if we Speculate here, and imagine that David found out HOW/WHY our Dr Shaw had been Impregnated with the Trilobite Fetus (David would have known it was NOT Human). Then in Theory he could infect her or a Female and then Surgically Remove the Fetus at a Earlier Stage. If he found a way to Store/Contain them then he could OBTAIN a Trilobite or Similar a Number of Times.
Back to the Topic of the Eggs, it is likely that David had used Dr Shaws Egg Cells to Produce the Xenomorph Eggs... which would mean that there is a LIMIT to how often and how many he could obtain.
And so like the Creation of the Trilobite there are Limits as far as how often you could produce such things... Using ONE Host/Egg Donor.
"“She” would then produce the xeno-eggs directly (cesarean because of the size?) but still only 12 per year?"
I think when we consider a Hybrid we cant rule out how many Traits the Black Goo would Evolve... or Xenomorph DNA would Evolve... if the objective of the Species Created would be Procreate then its likely that Dr Shaw's method of Procreation could be Evolved.
So who knows HOW often and HOW many Eggs a Hybrid could Produce....
There was some SMALL Eggs in Davids Workshop, he also had obtained some SMALL Face Huggers. So maybe the Eggs obtained are NOT so Large but GROW.
So we could Speculate maybe a Hybrid would Produce Smaller Eggs that can be extracted or maybe even LAID?
I have done a Edit of some of the Artwork.
If something like this is Possible, we can only imagine how many Eggs could be Laid, Certainly more Frequent than a Human Reproductive System and so something like this Created by David would indeed be a way of Perfecting his Queen.
EDIT:
A Female Human has Thousands of Eggs, but only Ovulate about 12 a Year, so we could consider that a Hybrid with a Hybrid Reproductive Egg Laying Cycle could Ovulate MUCH more than that, and maybe even Utilize most of the Eggs the Female has (Many Thousands).
I would certainly be interested in seeing such a Hybrid in Future.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
In continuation...
Ridley Scott has made some interesting comments about the Xenomorph in regards to the Future, he had claimed the Xenomorph has YET to Evolve a bit more before we get to ALIEN.
He had said that the NEXT Movie would NOT be about the Xenomorph but what KIND of a World that David would Create.
Now it depends on HOW you read into that, because maybe if a Movie just had NEOMORPHS would it Technically NOT be about the Xenomorph?
He said it would be about AI, and now we cant conclude this means ROBOTS... a AI simply means a Artificial Creation that has some Intelligence, and so a Xenomorph and Neomorph could be Considered as such.
He also said that there was ONLY so much you can do with HIM (assume Xenomorph) but you can EVOLVE him.
Most Recently he talked about the Xenomorph by saying that you could explore different ways to Evolve it, and explore different ways of Procreation.
So maybe on our ROUTE to ALIEN... we can hold some hope for seeing Various Hybrids and Forms of Procreation.
If the ENGINEERS return, and we know they are a Species who take a Great Interest in Genetic Engineering and Evolving Species, and at some point some of them had taken a Great Interest in Organisms that Predate the Deacon and lead to the Deacon.
Then there is the Potential that IF we see David go on to Create Various Hybrids... that maybe the Engineers could take a INTEREST in these and decide to TAKE some of Davids work and EVOLVE it themselves..
Off to LV-223 maybe they go to Experiment with David's Creations.... to the SPACE JOCKEYS...... HUBRIS!
We have to REMEMBER that we are 2-3 Movies away from ALIEN as far as RS has his plans... i see NO RUSH to please Fans to go about with Xenomorphs and Cameron's Queens.
As long as Fans see something ALIENY and know we are on the ROUTE to seeing Xenomorphs down the Line i think that should please most Fans.
A Plot that ENDS with maybe the Engineers or their Creators FOLLY at trying to Obtain and Evolve David's Experiments could be the IDEAL way to Rescue the Origins of the Xenomorph.
so someone ELSE plays the Final Roles in the Evolution to what we had in ALIEN. (thus David is the Middle Man).
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave
I would say that there is a difference between biological (organic life) and synthetic. AI is, therefore, simply artificial. The neomorph and the xenomorph are artificial if, from the beginning, they are made in a lab from non-living substances. If, however, they originate from a living creature (DNA) then life itself is not artificial. Ju might, of course, blend these things (organic and non-organic) but then you have "life" as a starting point. Is David really living?
As for a connecting movie to Alien, it seems a bit weird if the Engineers start developing the pathogen and the xeno-traits, David continues it, and then the Engineers picks up the baton again.
How about some people from W-Y and some marines come to a destroyed and desolate planet. In a ruin, they find a recording from David. In it, he explains what has happened after they left Planet 4. He explains how everything he's dreamed of has gone up in smoke (literally). Engineers have blown up everything (nothing is left) and left that part of the galaxy. Before the end, David realizes his folly.
But, in a flashback scene (2000 years back in time on LV-223) we see an Engineer running towards a juggernaut, sets off, but eventually crash lands on LV-426 . . .
I think that to a degree yes the Neomorph is a By-Product of a A.I and maybe that does-not mean its a A.I.
The Xenomorph regardless if we look at the David Created it route, or the only other Evidence in the Franchise that covers the Origins a bit more (Alien Engineers). Then the indication on Both Accounts is the Xenomorph is a Specifically Engineered Organism and so a kind of A.I
I think it depends on HOW you look at A.I as for the most part its associated with giving something a Artificial Intelligence as in allowing the creation of something that can THINK/PROCESS like a Human but Simulated and thus is connected with Computing/Programing and Software and not the Nuts and Bolts of the Machine, but what can make it become Intelligent and Function with Little or No Input from the Creator/User.
In this Context then the only way a Organic Life-Form can be considered A.I is if it has artificially been Modified/Engineered to have a Intelligence that is closer to a Human than what the Organism was Naturally.
In this Context then Genetically Modifying a Apes Brain so that it becomes Vastly more Intelligent could be considered a A.I but it would be a more GREY area if we take a Human and Engineer some Ape Genomes/Traits to make the Human more Agile/Stronger because well if the Intelligence is the same as a None Ape Engineered Human then they would not be a A.I in this case.
It really is down to HOW you look at A.I for the most part it is Considered the attempt to Create a Artificial Brain or a Computer that can operate closely to a Brain.
Ridley Scott seems to suggest that David and Replicants are only different because mainly ONE is Synthetic and the other Organic... but both A.I as far as he is concerned.
Regarding the connection to ALIEN...
This has been debated over and over, indeed the Original Idea was that the Xenomorph was NOT a Creation by David and the U-Turn/Curveball is something that in Hindsight may have been a Bad Call!
so its a case of do we ACCEPT this.... do those who will eventually give us the Answers Accept it, despite the Dislike by most Fans?
Or do we try and think of a way to Fix It?
The theory i put forwards makes sense to me, i understand it may not for others... it works for me because of the Themes at Play, Genetic Engineering. If we look at Genetic Engineering and Enhancing and look at WHY would anyone do this... usually you would find its to Enhance/Improve and Perfect something to Speed Up/Cheat Evolution. I think the whole Space Gardeners and Engineers plot does show us a Species who go around Engineering Various Organisms.
Then if we look at the Experiments on LV-223 we could assume the Engineers had been experimenting with a all manner of related Organisms, trying to Perfect Something just as David was doing on Planet 4.
If we assume this was the case with some Engineers, then if they look at the Deacon they created, and then they saw what David had achieved with the Black Goo, they could be INTERESTED in what he has done and seen Great Potential in this. So they decide to Evolve it Further.
I think that would Work/Fit for some it means that David still had a role in the Xenomorph and they Clutch at Straws that its still a Ancient Organism thats on LV-426 for Thousands of Years.
Rightly so too, because thats what the Impression was, and the Original Intention..
The other FIX is they can come up with another way to show the Xenomorph was on LV-426 for Thousands of Years... Then maybe they have to explain WHAT it was that David had done. For this they maybe have to indicate to us WHY it is David had decided to and managed to Create Something Similar? Where did he get the Eggs or was he just Following a OLD Recipe Book to Re-create the Xenomorph?
Some Fans use Evidence from the Novel to back this up, but alas it appears those are LINES that ADF had added. We could go this route.... but i think its SILLY to have the Engineers keeping something like a Egg on Planet 4, more so to then USE them to Sacrifice Engineers/Humans on Planet 4 (as some Speculate).
A way to FIX it if we go for this route has to be via David and some dialog where he says he had taken the Engineers Xenomorph and Perfected it... which then means we have to be shown that David's version is a Improvement but this would NOT please Fans either.
How David managed to Perfect it as far as from what source can be left Unanswered and Ambiguous.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"But, in a flashback scene (2000 years back in time on LV-223) we see an Engineer running towards a juggernaut, sets off, but eventually crash lands on LV-426"
There are a number of ways we could go and indicate the Derelict and Cargo had been on LV-426 for Thousands of Years, without having to SHOW the Event.
A Movie that goes to LV-223 could indicate this for us, by Virtue of Exploring another Complex and either on a Ship or in some Room have some Engineer Storage Devices that contain Small Xenomorph Eggs and either IMPLY that these are Successful Results or Eggs that the Engineers had used to Experiment with.
Indicating these Eggs had been on LV-223 for Many Thousands of Years would give us some AMBIGUITY to Alien Covenant and allow the LV-426 Event to become a Mystery again... One that will NOT have a Answer but one where its left OPEN to those Eggs being there for a LONG LONG time.
Where Fans can Speculate if David had gone back to LV-223 to obtain one of those Eggs! Certainly gives David a good reason to have Dr Shaw placed into Cryo-sleep for a Journey that may-not have taken LONG but Dr Shaw does-not know that.
Certainly gives David more avenues to HOW he learned the Engineers Ways...
You could go Further by Spoon Feeding that indeed those Eggs had been on the Derelict, and that David had obtain them as such.
Problem is so much that counters that idea... David said his Creatures would be UNLEASHED on the Galaxy if Weyland-Yutani take up his Advent Message... but then we could Speculate this is regarding his VERSION.
If we got a Sequel that was more Alieny that went to LV-223, its a case of what do they then do with David and the Covenant and what happens to them? Another Alieny movie about his Xenomorphs while giving Clues to the others...
Engineers rock up with the Original Xenomorphs vs Davids Cheap Knock Offs?
Some Fans would see this as a WET-DREAM... i think its quite different to what RS would have done... But Disney will Call the Shots now and who knows..
I wont rule out a Ripley vs Engineers, vs Predators vs Aliens ;)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Well, it’s possible, of course, that David went back to LV-223 when Shaw was in hypersleep but I see no reason for believing that he did. According to the movie he created everything in the lab (but not in the novel), eggs, hybrids etc.
Returning to LV-223 would be interesting indeed, seeing what's inside the other facilities. However, W-Y must know by now that there is something interesting on LV-223. Wouldn’t they go there rather than letting a star freighter check out a signal?
If everything is wiped out, Planet 4, Origae-6 (if they have been there) and LV-223, the Engineers can leave this part of the galaxy for good.
But there was one Engineer who left LV-223 2000 years ago . . .
Certainly we dont know 100% what Transpired between Prometheus and the Crossing. It certainly looks like a number of Items had been Salvaged from either the Prometheus Wreckage or the Life-Boat before Dr Shaw and David had departed LV-223, so David could have gone back we simply dont know.
LV-223, Planet 4 and Origae-6 offer some Conflicts with the ALIEN Franchise at Present... after David sends the Advent Message you have to think the Company would Investigate at least TWO of those Places.
LV-223 and Planet 4 have Experiments, Black Goo and Organisms related to the Deacon, Neomorph and Xenomorph and so we have to ask WHY does the Company only Pursue LV-426 and then Ripley in the ALIEN Franchise?
So its likely these places would be DESTROYED or of NO USE to the Company by the Time we arrive after the events of ALIEN at least.
Considering the Plot of Alien Covenant and what Ridley Scott says about the Engineers will return and how we have YET to have the Space Jockey/Derelict event, then we have to WONDER what becomes of the Engineers after the events of the Prequels that are YET to unfold.
I will add in Context to the Events Connected to the Eggs... that a lot of Fans are NOT pleased with the David as Creator Plot, i think Best Case Scenario for them is some Indication in a Future Movie that SHOWS that the Eggs had been on LV-426 for a LONG LONG Time.. (Prior to Prometheus). A Number of people would actually rather see a Reboot of the Prequels to De-Canon Prometheus and Alien Covenant... i cant see that happening.
A Worse Case Scenario for some Fans... Definite Proof that David's Eggs get on the Derelict and WORSE! That David becomes the Space Jockey. I feel this Scenario is actually more possible than a Indication that the Derelict and Eggs are a Ancient Event. Because it would fit with the THEMES at play in the Prequels and would either show David's Hubris or his Redemption.
I think we need to look at a Scenario thats Middle Ground that places David as a Middle Man, and that the Experiments with and Evolution of his Creation at the hands of the Engineers proves to be THEIR Hubris.
So our Space Jockey is a Engineer or some Related Species..... the Destruction of LV-223 could be used as a Plot Device to Tear a Hole in Space/Time that sends the Derelict back Thousands of Years.
(but this could also cause a Paradox)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Well, David and Shaw must have had a quick look at the wreckage site (They wouldn’t go to Miss Vicker’s lifeboat. Shaw knows what’s there) on their way to the other facility and the juggernaut there.
Yes, at present, W-Y knows about LV-223, Planet 4, and Origae-6. These would, therefore, have to be wiped out. Otherwise, there would be no point in going to LV-426 in search of a xenomorph.
Yes, David becoming the Space Jockey would be unsatisfactory, to say the least . . .
And I can’t see Engineers continuing David’s work since to me it seems they left that path a long time ago: “they tried to banish the wolf. And undo their creation”. For what they had done, they thought that “sacrifice cleansed them of their sin”.
chli Wasn't Shaw scavenging for resource on the life boat when the Engineer attacked? I cannot see from where else she could have found anything as everything else blew up. But what would have the Engineer would have eaten during his trip to Earth?
Well for RS, David becoming the Spacey Jokey probably would have been a great twist, but reactions happened...
"But what would have the Engineer would have eaten during his trip to Earth?"
Your reply kind of would have been like mine, in that Dr Shaw and David had obtained ... a Star Chart, a Table, the Flare Gun, Tools to repair David and picture of Holloway/Shaw among other things that surely could not have all been found in the Wreckage of the Prometheus.
We have to bare in mind if we consider the Ending of Prometheus as Chronological then the Deacon had Gestated in the Engineer for over 4 days... enough time for David and Dr Shaw to Salvage from the Life-Boat, the Engineer maybe appearing as Dead?
Again its a case of Poor Writing and Oversight perhaps.
Regarding the Quote i took, as far as "But what would have the Engineer would have eaten during his trip to Earth?"
Well the Crossing Draft by Logan seemed to show the Juggernauts have Showering Facilities and a Room that grows Fruit lol... But then also Dr Shaw was attracted to David and they Sex so enough said about that Poor Writing ;)
@Chli
The Banish the Wolf comment is Ambiguous it could be regarding the Genetic Engineering using other Organic Traits to Evolve themselves.
I think its a case of how do they Fix it?
1) Cave in and U-Turn again and somehow show that the Xenomorph is Ancient and David does-not create it?
2) Continue with the David as the Creator Arc despite it NOT pleasing most Fans..
3) Try and find a way to give a best of both worlds Solution?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Shaw went to Miss Vicker's life pod because she needed oxygen. It was not in order to stroll about. The photograph of her and Holloway can hardly have been in Miss Vicker's quarters . . .
As for "the wolf". I interpret it as meaning the xenomorph (not genetic engineering). David also has his "lambs" to experiment upon, but "the wolf" is "the perfect organism" which David will unleash if they don't heed his olive branch (peace treaty).
Is David the creator of the xenomorph or isn't he? That is the question. A "best of both worlds solution", would that really satisfy everybody?
chli I've just rewatched the scene after the crash. Shaw is to leave the "life boat" with a bag of supplies. The Prometheus blew up to smithereens so it is highly likely that nothing remained to salvage. The pictures of Shaw (1 in the derelict and 1 on David's altar to her) in Covenant is pure magic as I don't see how could have survived the explosion of the Prometheus neither does Shaw take with her pictures (only the ring).
Like i said and Ignorantguy has pointed out, it comes down to the Writers NOT really thinking about HOW can one Movies Ending lead to the Next without any Conflicts.
The Plot of Alien Covenant had indicated that it took David and Dr Shaw quite some time before she could TRUST him, for this you needed PLOT Conveniences... for those they needed to have Salvaged Stuff from the Prometheus. and so as Ignorantguy also said we have to look at where LIKELY these could have came from.
They could have been Salvaged from the Wreckage but i find it UNLIKELY
But for Plot Convenience and Lazy Writing and Oversight it cant be ruled out! The other OPTION is the Life-Boat and indeed Dr Shaw had gone there for some Supplies as she was running low on Oxygen.
A thing to remember is WHEN/WHERE did Dr Shaw make her SOS Warning? If this was while on LV-223 then what we have to Consider is that this SOS was DAYS after the Prometheus had been Destroyed.
So its likely she had gone back to the Life-boat for items she may need, this is based on what would account for the Plot Elements that we saw in The Crossing. It is a MASSIVE Convenience that the Photos of Dr Shaw and Holloway were on the Life-Boat but it was also a Massive one IF they had Survived the Destruction of the Prometheus and by that Virtue if the Photo's Survived then other things could have too.
It all is just a Oversight to suit the PLOT of The Crossing.
"A "best of both worlds solution", would that really satisfy everybody?"
Well the ANSWER would be NO!
I dont think anything will please everyone.. and Disney would have to look at what may please MOST... but FOX made this mistake with giving us Alien Covenant as far as bring back the Beast.
They could CAVE IN and give us a Movie that goes to LV-223 and Discover in a Complex they have a Queen and that the Queen Actually Produces a Nano-Parasite Organism and these then Gestate into Xenomorph Eggs. Which then could reveal the Engineers saw that these Parasites could also Infect a Organism Directly and Evolve them into a Hybrid.
And so the Engineers just Experimented on these Parastic Procreative Organisms the Queen Produces to make the Black Goo.
They could turn the Sacrificial Scene to actually being the Engineers Procreating Xenomorph related Horrors and NOT seeding his DNA.
Then we would get a Indication the Xenomorph is ANCIENT and Natural and the Engineers merely just Experimented on them... or SERVED them... such a Plot Change could please a lot especially those Cameron's Aliens Fans..
But even changing things may NOT work if the Movie is POOR and there would be some Fans who still would not like that Direction... You simply are NOT going to please Every Fan....
I now think they have a even more Difficult Task to do that NOW, considering the David Created it Plot.
Its a Question of do they TRY and please as many Variants of Fans, but maybe a "Best of Both Worlds" would not work.... do they Continue with the David Creates It Plot which many Fans may Boycott or indeed just Pretend it NEVER happened.... or do they Find someway to show the Xenomorph was Ancient.
I have had a FEW ideas who to do that.... also considered before Christmas a QUEEN as the Origin like Plot as vaguely covered above... i am NOT a Fan of it, but i thought it out as maybe a way to make it about some Related Organism as the Origins of the Goo/Eggs. as maybe that would please more?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Regarding the WOLF... yes with David it appears it is the Xenomorph and his Lambs will be the Covenant Colonist.
Regarding the Engineers its more Ambigious... i think the WOLF related to the Genetic Experiment/Black Goo and maybe the Sub-Creation of the LV-223 Engineers?
But it could be interpreted that there SOLE Agenda was to Create Xenomorph Related Organisms that they then used others to Sacrificed themselves for.
This could be looked at and made to FIT with the whole ALIEN Plot as far as Xenomorph... but it kind of Conflicts the Gardeners of Space and HOW the Engineers interacted with Mankind in Ancient History Plot and also looking at certain things with Planet 4 and considering the Prometheus Mythos and Fallen Angels.
I am led to Ponder that some Engineers had grown fed up of their Purpose to Serve, and at some point had came into Contact with a Parasitic Life-Form that they then saw the Results as Intriguing and so they began to Experiment with this and Worship the work they had done and Intended to Populate this more Perfect DNA across the Galaxy instead of using the Engineers DNA.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017