Why Invite Us?

Leto

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reticulum

22 stars. So...

Leto

So, did the Prometheus crew travel to the right place?

I think a thing to remember with Constellations they are just a way to Separate up areas of Space as viewed from Earth, and so you could have TWO Stars that appear side by side in a Constellation that could be Vastly Seperated by Distance were as other Stars that are not located close to them as viewed from Earth could be much closer to them.

Regarding Galaxies we have to remember they are located in the Further Reaches of Space.. Millions of Light Years away but if we get one we could make out with the Naked Eye or with a Telescope then the Area of the Sky that we would see them from Earth would be located in a Area of the SKY that belongs to a Constellation.

Meaning the Galaxy is viewed through/pass that Constellation but NOT that the Galaxy is actually located within that Constellation

"So, did the Prometheus crew travel to the right place?"

Well its likely the Map shows Stars and it depends at what position are these viewed... from Earth?

With ALIEN it was indicated that LV-426 was in the Zeta Reticuli Binary Star System and Ridley Scott has on a number of times mentioned this, and Prometheus we are in the same Star System.

Here i have TWO Maps of the Zeta Reticuli System the System is the TWO Brightest Objects its a case of which of the STARS in the Prometheus Map would match up with those Stars and then what are the other Stars in the Prometheus Map.

So that collection of 6 STARS could be quite FAR apart we can maybe ASSUME that Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 have to be on that Prometheus Star Map.  So its a Question of WHICH of those 6 STARS had the Engineers been pointing out?

The Isle of Skye Cave Map seems to show the Tall Being pointing to a Specific Point.  But then it could be that when the Prometheus arrived at the System Area they Targeted the System that had the Most Suitable Candidate for the Potential to have Life or had Life... hence LV-223

But it could have been Planet 4 that was being pointed out but this place remained Hidden (as indicated).

sometimes you just have to Accept what the Production, Drafts and Director had indicated, which was that these MAPS pointed out the Zeta 2 Reticuli System.

Here is another Example... its a case of HOW does the Cave Map Fit?

Well, the engineers have travelled through vast expanses of space, Planet 4, LV-223 and LV-426 and Earth being some of them. Planet 4 was sufficiently far away from LV-223 for Shaw to get into hypersleep (it took almost a year with a juggernaut).

Somewhere in the direction of the Reticulum constellation, there might be a portal to another part of space, a wormhole . . .

I think its hard to Gauge the Engineers Ships Speeds, i would ASSUME they are Vastly Quicker than Earths, and with Alien Covenant the Zeta 2 System took about a Year to Reach (Under Actually).  The Prometheus took about 2 Years.

I think its likely David was not 100% Honest with Dr Shaw and he had a Agenda to get her into Cryo-sleep so then he is in FULL CONTROL.

The RED X is where the Advent Viral Message was Transmitted from.   I think we have to assume this could have been Transmitted not far away from Planet 4 but we cant be 100% Sure, its a BIG Coincidence though so we are looking at either.

1) David Transmitted it from Planet 4 so it is located near Zeta 2 Reticuli (which some speculated on a Topic) HERE

2) David Transmitted it not to LONG after he had placed the Face Huger Embryos into the Embryo Storage on the Covenant, so the Ship had not traveled far which again indicates that Planet 4 is near Zeta 2 Reticuli

3) David travels near to Zeta 2 Reticuli before he sends the ADVENT which could indicate that he had left Planet 4 and is going to LV-223/426

When i say NEAR the Zeta 2 Reticuli System i am talking about as far as Location in the SKY, this does not mean its Distance is within a FEW Light Years of LV-223

We know that David had been stranded on Planet 4 for about 10 Years, from the Date of Departure of the Juggernaught from LV-223 to the Arrival of the Covenant to Planet 4 is about 10 Years 11 Months you could ASSUME thus thats how long David had been on Planet 4.

However.....Dr Shaw's Hair Growth shows that before she Entered the Engineer Cryo-Pod that 4-8 Months would have passed as far as Hair Growth.  So she had spent some TIME floating in Space before She agreed to put David back together.

Also the Novel (which we cant take everything as Gospel) indicated that David had marked out the days he was stranded and there was 3800 Marks/Days. Which taking into account LEAP Years means that from when David started to MARK those Dates to when the Covenant Ship arrived he had been STRANDED on Planet 4 for about 10 Years and 5 Months.

If we ACCEPT those 3800 days and take into account Dr Shaw's Hair Growth then its likely the Juggernaught took DAYS to get to Planet 4, certainly Few Weeks Maximum.

But we have NOTHING Concrete....  as far as 100% How Long it took or 100% were Planet 4 is located.

It seems Indicated as being near Zeta 2 Reticuli and taking a SHORT TIME (Days or Weeks) but there is nothing CONCRETE so its open for debate i guess.

When doing that IMAGE.. to Pin Point where the ADVENT was sent... i noticed something in the TOP RIGHT Corner.

There are a GROUP of Stars that KIND OF match the Star Map, its NOT 100% but CLOSE.... and Located in the Reticulum Constellation.

 You may have to View Image Separate (Enlarge it), while this does-not mean this is the MATCH, its kind of Close and Certainly within the Vicinity of Zeta 2 Reticuli 

Just assuming this is Correct (which it may very well NOT be), then it could be that Dr Shaw and Holloway went to the WRONG place... maybe because when they arrived close to the Matching System the only Candidate as far as being Likely to Sustain Life near by was LV-223

Maybe the Engineers were pointing to Planet 4, and maybe we assume the MAP i did was Correct, it was indicated that Planet 4 was obscured from Detection somehow...

But it seems likely that the Engineers had NEVER intended us to come and FIND them and so it was NO actual Invitation.

EDIT

I Overlapped the STAR MAP and while the 3 Stars Close by Match up, the other 3 are Off (Nothing really there) so maybe they are a bit Further away as Indicated in this Next image?

While we cant take that bit of work i had done to try and make a Match as being what is intended (the Team Behind the Maps may have done NO Research and so it Actually may NOT match any System)  I think if we looked at Every Part of the SKY we could find other Groups of STARS that Match that are NO-WHERE near LV-223.

I would like to say  that it does seem HIGHLY LIKELY the Star Maps that Dr Shaw and Holloway had Discovered had NOT taken us to LV-223 by Coincidence so we have to ASSUME as far as the Movie goes that the STAR MAPS had to match up with Group of Stars within the Vicinity of the Reticulum Constellation.

We saw that Dr Shaw felt that these were left for Mankind as a Invitation, this was HER assumption... she latter said "we was so WRONG!"  This quote is OPEN to interpretation.

*Wrong because it was NOT a Invitation?

*Wrong because She DID-NOT expect the place to be as Horrific with the Intention they Discovered? (To Destroy us).

Likely is both of the above......

But then you could Argue that you CANT take her Assumptions as anywhere near FACT...  By Virtue of her Keeping her FAITH in Spite of all her Work/Research and what they Discover on LV-223.

She was Naive and as she said "its what i CHOOSE to believe" so that Irrational Response could KNOCK any Credibility to what ever she ASSUMES.

Kind of likewise that people can KNOCK the Credibility of David by Virtue of getting the AUTHOR of the Ozymandias Poem Wrong.

I think we just need to look at WHY the Engineers would INVITE us from their POV.... for this it comes down to WHY we was Created and by WHO?  (Planet 4 Engineers or Prometheus Style Engineers).

The Alien Covenant drafts seem to give some indication, but again its from David.. which is that the Engineers had attempted to BUILD Good Machines with us.

This implies our Creation was to Serve just as David was to Serve, by that for some purpose like Hard Labour and so this Mirrors some of the Sumerian Anunnaki Tales for our Creation.

In this Context then it is LIKELY those Maps where NOT any Invitation.  And merely either.

*We Created you from HERE

*This is where you CAME from.

Or Dr Shaw and Holloway had taken the Prometheus to the WRONG place and the Star Maps had intended to point to PLANET 4 and indicate this is WHERE the Engineers came from. 

Again being Unlikely it was a Invitation and we are NEVER intended to go there, only unless the Engineers came and TOOK some of us there, as its likely the Engineers had NEVER intended to Teach us to become so Advanced and they THOUGHT that without their HELP we would never ADVANCE to Reach the STARS.

As for the Advent transmission, it seems likely that it was close after leaving Planet 4.

About Shaw's hair length, it looks like they travelled together, helping each other manoeuvring the juggernaut before Shaw was put into hypersleep.

When it comes to "the invitation", the location was probably pointed out before the engineers were disappointed with us and wanted to eradicate us . . .

Dr. Shaw interpreted those paintings as an invitation.

Based on comments by Ridley, and what we've seen in the film, Engineers seed planets with life and periodically visit them to check and update their creations. If their creations proved successful as the Engineers hoped, the Engineers would come back again. If their creations proved to be a disappointment, the Engineers would simply eradicate entire species using the pathogen and start all over again.

"If the planet went wrong, they would want to wipe it clean. But that could take 500 years. When they revisit because different visitors would come back and see we're not doing so well they would look at these human beings that are jerks, that are killing the planet, killing themselves, can't settle down, they're like a bunch of children. We should wipe it clean."

So, Engineers most likely hoped humans would join and co-exist with them, but at some point during their visit, humans proved to be a disappointment to them, so they thought "Nope, can't let those hostile bastards ruin this planet."

Even if Engineers checked on humans somewhere in 2000 A.D., they'd be disappointed anyway.

Well, the engineers decided we weren't fit to exist during the reign of the roman empire and the time of Christ. We were hardly any more civilized before that time . . .

At the beginning of "The Crossing", we see the juggernaut which Shaw and David have fetched from one of the facilities on LV-223, slowly gliding through space (suggesting that they have at least managed to get the ship airborne).

Next, we see Shaw examining a star map (in order to find the homeworld of the engineers?). Then, Shaw puts David together, and together they "were able to activate their ship and set course for their homeworld". They seem to be happy together.

David says it's impossible to say how far it is to the engineer homeworld but Shaw is put into hypersleep. David is then "alone again" For how long? During this time, David learns "of their ways". When they arrive at their homeworld, David immediately begins the holocaust.

Was Shaw awake? Did she witness the extermination?

@BigDave, Unfortunately the star map on the Prometheus is made up. It was clearly artwork inspired in part by the constellation of Orion, which is probably the most recognisable of all constellations. In this overlay, you can see this.

And here is the 'unadulterated' scene. I added the arrow pointing to LV-223 as indicated in the movie.

Unfortunately, Reticulum is in a completely different part of the sky, a different hemisphere in fact. LV-223 is shown in the movie as being somewhere between Canis Minor and Gemini (northern hemisphere).

It's a great pity that the production team didn't use a proper star map to create this visual, instead of making one up.

Orion...

So, Engineers most likely hoped humans would join and co-exist with them, but at some point during their visit, humans proved to be a disappointment to them, so they thought "Nope, can't let those hostile bastards ruin this planet."

Roman legionaries can't destroy or contaminate the planet. And if Engineers think that we can't evovle without their help - it causes controversy.

@Hox it does prove maybe they should make more Research and time taken into the things they show us, but a lot of it comes down to OVERSIGHT but with that comes Discrepancies that some Fans can use to Counter a Argument against certain things.

The intentions was to indicate the Zeta2 Reticuli system

Looking at Orion we can kind of make it look like a Match but it is a LITTLE off still.  The Map i attempted kind of Fits Better but is in NO-WAY to suggest this was thought out by those working on Prometheus, it is merely a Coincidence.

You raised a Good Point about the Briefing Map was ODD.

I took that Map and Lined it up with ORION from SKY-MAP Website and then Pinpointed where Approximately LV-223 was located according to the Holloway Briefing. 

The Co-Ordinates are NOT where ZETA 2 is located in the SKY.  While in RED i have marked out a Approximate Area where Holloway had pointed out.  i have Marked in GREEN a More Accurate Location of where Zeta 2 Reticuli would be.

So if we are trying to tackle the Oversight, then YES its quite a WAY off from Zeta 2

Could we use this to ARGUE that they went to a Place that is NO-WHERE near LV-426?  Could we Argue the Maps that Dr Shaw and Holloway found are pointing out ORION (but we can kind of match them to Various Stars if we had a Good Look).

You could also use it to MATCH up to the Betty Hill Abduction Map.

IN FACT when looking at SKY MAP its quite easy to find a Series of Stars that can Line Up close to this.

If we are ALLOWED to Rotate the Map and ZOOM IN/OUT on the SKY-MAP Website, especially if we are ONLY looking to find a Configuration that is CLOSE.

Had to do a EDIT on the Image this one is more Accurate as i made a Slight Mistake.

Nonetheless is does still indicate that INDEED where Holloway was pointing to (RED) is NO-WHERE near Zeta 2 (GREEN).

So Holloway was pointing to a System in Gemini, Near Star HD 54405  (Right ascension:    07h09m22.07s
Declination:    +16°32'58.2")

The Debate about a INVITATION is not so HARD.

Looking at a Reason WHY they wanted to Destroy us is something MUCH more open for Debate.

I think a lot has to do EXACTLY with WHY they would Create us anyway?

Yes there is that Date that is by Coincidence around the Time of Christ's Death (Give or Take) and YES we had Ridley Scott mention this was done on Purpose but then Considered a little TOO on the NOSE.

He liked to get us to think that over time the WAYS that Mankind had behaved had started to become a Concern, if we LITERALLY was to look at it from GOD's POV  and you saw the Majority of the Population Now as far as WHAT would offend the Biblical God, and as FAR as the % who Worship him to the LETTER... Then that GOD would certainly be like PREPARE THE BLACK GOO!

But this should NOT be getting too much into Religion as far as ONE.. and i think this is WHY it is RS had toned this down somewhat.

So we need to look at it this way.... we have to consider that for a God or Godlike beings, they would want their Creations to.

*Behave in Ways that the Creators Deem Acceptable.

*Respect and Worship the Creators.

*Follow any Rules/Laws that the Creators have set out.

*Stick to the Function that the Creators had set out for us.

A Creator would be Concerned if the Following Started to Happen.

*Creations become Sentient and do-not see their Creators as Superior or see any reason why they should be Worshiped.

*Creations go about Living their Lives to their own Rules and have no Respect for/or Follow the Rules/Ways their Creators had set out.

*Creations Start to use the Knowledge passed on in ways Not Intended or begin to Create their own Knowledge/Inventions or Ideals (Advancements) that could be seen as a Concern.

*Creations attempt to Sub-Create or Play God.

All of these THINGS would be a Concern, and we can Attribute many of them to Many Cultures/Civilizations on Earth (especially Modern) in comparison to how say some Cultures like the AMISH for instance would Choose to Live despite being in Modern Times.

which we could make Comparisons with the Planet 4 Engineers. (Living by their Creators Ways/Rules and Shunning Technology for the Most Part).

But this is ONLY looking at HOW we could be a Concern.

I think we OVERLOOK our David a lot when trying to Figure out stuff..

If you look at the Potential for what WALTER would become and a World of Many Walters doing their Duty.

Then look for the Potential for what DAVID would become a World of Many David's who do-not see their Purpose that we had set out for them, and even view us as In-Superior and NOT worthy to be Served.

As a Creator you would be Concerned about what a DAVID could become and if you Creations Start to Show signs of becoming a David... then you would PULL THE PLUG on them.

Or at least RE-PROGRAM.... but sometimes this maybe does-not work and the only option is DESTRUCTION.

Well, we don’t know for sure whether the star map given to early civilisations was an invitation or not. We don’t know for sure why the engineers created us either and then decided to destroy us (that’s what Shaw wanted to find out).

One thing is for sure, though. If you don’t want visitors, you don’t give everyone your address. The address might have been LV-223 (which might have been a happier place in times of yore). Or the address might have been Planet 4 (presumably somewhere close by).

It’s possible that the engineers looked upon us as parents do. You can’t have meaningful discussions with children. They have to grow up first. When they grow up, there can be good relationships between generations but there can also be a generation clash. Maybe they saw us as mischievous children with no hope of there ever being a meaningful relationship?

Another possibility is that they demanded power and obedience and when humans stopped worshipping them it was time for vengeance (nemesis).

When the star maps were given to us, we hadn’t reached the technological level of space travel but the engineers visited us and saw how we evolved. Around the time of the roman empire, they decided to wipe us out so we didn’t reach the space age (All or some of the engineers decided this?).

The invitation was withdrawn . . .

"Well, we don’t know for sure whether the star map given to early civilisations was an invitation or not."

I think it depends on what you take into account, as i had said earlier on the Topic, while Dr Shaw makes some assumptions First that it was a Invitation and then that she was So Wrong.... she also Chooses to Believe her Faith in-spite of her Findings... so we cant take her as 100% Reliable.

The Biggest Question should be about the Reasons the Engineers Created us and then spent Time coming down to Interact with us... for WHAT reason?

The Answer will HELP us make sense of everything else... but indeed things can Change... and Dr Shaw wanted to know WHY the Engineers Changed their Minds.

The Engineers Agenda and Purpose is the BIG ONE as far as how it Effects everything.  Ridley Scott keeps mentioning they are Gardeners of Space.  (Genetic)

But indeed you DONT leave you Calling Card and Address to People who you DONT want to Find you. So you could look at this being a Invitation..... but in reality its likely that the Engineers had NEVER intended us to Leave Earth on our own Terms and without the Engineers we are supposed to have been Incapable of this FEAT!

How Wrong was they!

"which might have been a happier place in times of yore"

Certainly having LV-223 as a Bio-Weapons Facility for over 35'000 Years with the Intention of using the stuff to Destroy their Creations...  JUST dont make Sense!   As far as WHY they would Pinpoint this place.

But then Dr Shaw and Holloway could have been mistaken and taken the Prometheus to the Wrong Place, as they could have pointed out Planet 4 (but as this place seemed to be HIDDEN, they maybe determined that the Map was to the closest place that seemed to be more Habitable... Hence LV-223

I still think LV-223 was likely a Sandbox/Nursery/Green House to Develop, Upgrade Experiments and then Seed down the Desired Results on Worlds.

At some LATTER point a group of Engineers had became OBSESSED with the Genetic Traits of a Organism that Predated the Deacon and they saw its DNA/Traits as being something more PERFECT than their own Humanoid DNA and so began their Obsession and what LV-223 then became.

If we come back to the Gardeners of Space then ASSUME the Engineers Prime Agenda is to Create/Evolve Life then we have to ask to what END?

If we take this to the Next Level in Peter Weyland and the Creation of Synthetic Life then we could look at a Agenda of the Pursuit of always trying to Evolve this Creation to Perfect it.... and if this is what the Engineers had been doing then lets change this to Mankind.

Throw David out and Replace with Replicants as its more Relevant..   so your trying to Created a Humanoid Species for a Set Purpose and your looking at how to make them more Enhanced (Übermensch ) then its HOW FAR can you Engineer a Superior Humanoid.

After tweaking the Humanoid Genomes and NOT being able to Perfect It, as there is always something to Perfect, you could be like... What if we gave these Humans the EYESIGHT of a Eagle or Owl, what if they could Grow Wings and FLY?

So then your trying to NOT Enhance the Human Genome but your trying to ADD some Traits from other Organisms.   I think this is where the ENCOUNTER and EXPERIMENTS with the Precursor to the Xenomorph came about!

it was something the Engineers had then experimented with that they SHOULD-NOT have...  I am sure if you look at the Traits of the Deacon, Neomorph and Xenomorph then you could ASK.... if we could extract and apply some of these Traits to Humanoids then they could be of Great Benefit in Creating a Übermensch

But alas this all made more Sense before Alien Covenant, because NOW we have to contend with the possibility that there is ONE GOO and it always was able to Create Such Traits.

I could go on more in Detail of HOW it all could fit together (Engineers Agenda and Fall) but that would maybe be a little LONG WINDED...

But i think looking at Replicants and David gives us a Good View at what may have taken place.. But alas the PLOT is so Bold and Ambiguous that you could come up with any number of theories.

KEY points would be around WHAT the Agenda had been for the Engineers, and WHEN/WHY had this Changed.  And also HOW does the Fallen Angels and Prometheus Myth connect.

Then HOW does the "Sometimes to Create One must first Destroy"  fit... which really comes down to TWO Possible Reasons.

BigDave

As you said, when Shaw says “We were so wrong”, it could mean a lot of things. Wrong about going there, wrong about the Engineers (being nice), wrong about “an invitation” etc. The message could also have changed from being an invitation to not being an invitation.

As you also point out, it’s possible to look upon the Engineers as gardeners of space seeing us as micro-organisms in a petri dish carefully controlling that the lid is on and nothing (no one) escapes (from Earth). LV-223 could have been like a greenhouse where they investigated and experimented with people which would fit well with the Hill abduction.

Yes, it’s possible that the Engineers in their endeavour of creating beautiful worlds filled with perfect beings eventually suffered from hubris, going too far with genetic engineering. In their pursuit of creating perfect worlds and perfect beings, instead, they eventually created monsters . . .

The question “Why did they create us?” could get the same answer that David gets from Holloway: “We made you because we could”. Why do we create perfect, beautiful gardens or parks? Because we can and we enjoy it. But we also have to control them so that it doesn’t go out of control . . .

"The question “Why did they create us?” could get the same answer that David gets from Holloway:"

Certainly, i would like to think the TRUE revelation would had been NOTHING like Dr Shaw's Faith.  In that these beings had Created us to Look Over us, Cherish us and Love us.  When we are looking at the Scale of Creation in context to Prometheus i think we have to always ask "whats in it for the Creator?"

The Drafts for Alien Covenant seem to indicate that they was attempting to build Good Machines. So this could indicate we was Created for some Purpose to Serve a Function.

Maybe if we look at WHY would Mankind Create beings like David, then maybe the Engineers Created us for the same Purpose?

The whole Reason for Creation could be something very Ambiguous that we could come up with various Reasons, and maybe more than ONE could apply.

We cant rule out us being Created for a Purpose and then after this Purpose some Engineers decided that there was more use for us than to be merely a Labour Force for Example.

Its WHY the Answer to WHY we was Created is maybe the Biggest Question.  And maybe its not as Simple as because they COULD...   I think Holloways comment about that to David was just to get under his Skin.

There are Multiple Reasons that Weyland would Create a AI like David.   And just because he could would only be ONE part of this.

The Control Over these Gardens is a GOOD point.

If we take the Fiji Islands and these were Places that the rest of the World Hundreds of Years ago had Agreed to NEVER visit or interact with.   Then its likely they would be NO-WHERE near as Advanced as most of Civilization is now.  We could Ponder the same with the Americas if Europeans never SET-FOOT there.

When Outside people would Visit these places, then the Knowledge Passed on would allow them (Natives) to Advance, but this can be controlled by How Much Knowledge you give them.

We could wonder if some of the Engineers had NOT committed a Hubris, but maybe they had Passed On too much Information and maybe we was NOT supposed to be passed on as much as some Engineers had, which became the Hubris.

We could take Planet of the Apes as a Example... if we Genetically Advanced Apes to be more Human for example, then if we placed them on a Island that is VERY FAR from other Lands, then you could LIMIT and Control at what Rate they would Advance and if they showed signs of Advancing on their own that you was Concerned with then you could PUT a stop to it.

Allowing Genetically Advanced Apes the Freedom and Access/Knowledge that Mankind has, could lead to them gaining a Equal Footing or even Surpassing us. (if they are of Equal or Greater Intelligence).  

And so indeed Controlling the Knowledge that Intelligent beings can gain and Free-will/Freedom to use this Knowledge is something that you would want to be CAREFUL with when it comes to what you allow your Creations to HAVE/DO.

When things GET out of Control.... then its what action do you take!   The Engineers Answer seems VERY FLAWED and Overkill.

Unless they have Seeded Similar to us on other Planets or had came to take some of us with them before they PULL THE PLUG! (think like Noahs Ark).  But again this really does depend on WHY we was Created and WHAT Purpose they had for us, and WHAT happened once we are NOT needed for that Purpose anymore!