Why Invite Us?

Do you really have to have a purpose in order to create? Does there have to be another reason for creating other than enjoying it? Most people create babies because they enjoy doing it. They enjoy having sex and/or they enjoy having children. All (?) species reproduce only because it’s part of their nature, an instinct.

Humans can control their creation through birth control. In former times and in developing countries you might create children because you need more hands on the farm, or a king or nobleman needs an heir to take over land, properties and duties.

Sir Peter Weyland created synthetics in order to serve mankind just as Dr Elden Tyrell created replicants to do hard and dangerous jobs. Another purpose might have been to earn money . . .

But if we are to look upon the Engineers as gardeners of space, don’t they create just because they enjoy doing it? A real gardener might create beautiful parks because it’s his job (he gets paid) but if you cultivate your own garden (Il faut cultiver notre jardin :) ) you do it because you enjoy it. You enjoy the beauty of it. Your own Garden of Eden filled with trees, bushes, flowers, butterflies, birds and pets . . .

Concerning control, you cannot give children, pupils or pets full freedom to do whatever they like. That would result in anarchy and chaos. Concerning the tree of knowledge (or the Prometheus myth), to pass on knowledge isn’t dangerous in itself, it’s how it’s used . . .

Certainly, i would like to think the TRUE revelation would had been NOTHING like Dr Shaw's Faith. 

It seems reasonable that Shaw was right about the Engineers being creators and looked at them as god like, but her notion of faith and (what Weyland mentioned- the existence of a soul) were wrong. I agree the TRUTH was that she was pretty much off the mark, as she eventually said- "We were so wrong." Seems like a form of self importance although unintentional. That is a reason she could not be a sympathetic character. There could be a God, but don't expect it to be like what was taught over centuries.

@chli, good point about anarchy going unpunished in a disorderly universe.

Shaw asked the Engineer why he hated us so much. I don't think it's quite so simple as that. They likely do what they do out of a sense of duty and tradition rather than emotion. Maybe the writing was on the wall for humans when we started warring amongst ourselves and enslaving people. Would it really be a good idea to let aggressive monkeys loose in the cosmos, armed with high technology? The kind of creatures that would be likely to create aggressive thinking machines? Probably not. Maybe the Engineers had the right idea...

When the Engineer listened to David, there was a real look of pain on his face as he listened (shortly before David's rapid decapitation). What pitiful abomination have these humans created? It's not a new idea (see, for example, Dune, Neuromancer etc.), but it could be the case that the Engineer civilisation is totally and utterly averse to the creation of thinking machines. Maybe billions of years ago they fought and won wars against machines, and it's now completely taboo for them. Instead they live like monks.

I believe the Engineers lived in the same way for many millions of years, living a frugal, reflective, religious life. They see it as their duty to seed the universe with life, and to safeguard it against corrupted forms. If that means creating despicable agents of destruction to wipe out a planet or two, so be it!

@Chli

Certainly there are Many reasons for WHY would someone want to Create Life, i think in Context to the Engineers we have to maybe look at it from a different perspective than Natural Procreation.

But thats not to say that some of those Reasons cant apply, Certainly as far as a Intelligent Species who have the ability to make a Choice to Procreate or Not.

When it comes down to the Engineers i think the Question of WHY is something that was NOT clearly laid out, not as far as the Theatrical Movie.  And so we can only Speculate Widly if we only use that movie as a Source of Creation, there are Hints to possible Motives in Prometheus and Alien Covenant if we maybe look at David's Creation, or maybe Ponder WHY he also attempts to Create Life. But as far as the Engineers go there really is NO definite reason given.

The Earlier Drafts do give some possible hints, as far as Prometheus goes, which maybe sets us on a path to Ponder that these are a Species who LOST the ability to Procreate and so the Sacrificial Route was a way to Populate themselves to a degree.  However after Prometheus we had Ridley Scott suggest the Engineers could Create Life in other ways and the Sacrificial Ritual was just how they CHOOSE to do so.

The drafts for Alien Covenant we do have David drop a hint that we was created as Machines, which implies to Perform Certain Tasks so the Engineers would not have to.

If we take into account various Religion and Mythos then there are some things that Match as far as Creation but then there are some other things that Differ.

If we look at WHY would Weyland Create David then we could consider the following.

*Weyland is a Inventor a Innovator and Creating a Humanoid Synthetic who is Virtually Indistinguishable to ourselves but is also Superior, would be such a Accomplishment for Weyland to Serve his Ego.  As he would feel he has Surpassed what GOD had Created and so he would also leave a LEGACY.

*David was like the Son he never had and so its likely that in Part his creation was for Companionship too.

*David was also created to Serve Weyland, to Perform Tasks for his Master, and the Creation of more Synthetics would be used by Mankind to Serve and Perform Tasks so that we do-not have to anymore.

The thing that was Revealed with Alien Covenant is that David felt that he was NOT treated as Equal or how a Son should be treated by its Father.... and indeed most of Mankind.

But i do speculate if there was another Reason for his Creation, which is Longevity a Pseudo Immortality if you would.  If Peter Weyland could Create the Perfect Vessel for a Immortal Soul, and then he found a way to Transfer a Human Soul into  a AI then Peter Weyland would in Part have gained Immortality.   This is merely a Assumption/Idea by myself as Immortality was a Big Agenda for Peter Weyland.

So when looking at the Engineers there could be many reasons.... we cant rule out the because they COULD either, or indeed as David had said "devil makes work for idle hands" and so we have to consider as you mentioned with Building a Beautiful Garden that in part its a case of Creating Something to get around Boredom so you have something Nice to come out of the Work you put in.

@Hox

Firstly yes we have to look at things from the Engineers Perspective, so lets assume if we look at a Plot similar to Planet of the Apes and we play GOD and find a way to Imprint some of our Genomes into Apes so we Evolve the Apes a little.

If we see that our Creation has started to become Independent and a Threat then it would give GOOD REASON for us to UNDO what we had Created for the Greater Good of Mankind... because the Potential is there for our Creations to become Sentient, Unruly and a Threat.   We would maybe NOT view that those Apes should have the same Rights as us, if it was NOT for us they would not had been Created in the First Place.

So it would be our DOING that created a potential Calamity and we could feel its our right to UNDO it.

The Same applies for David... we see he has Feelings, and if Walter had gained similar Emotions and Freewill then Synthetics would certainly feel Compassion for their own kind, but in the EYES of their Creators.. Mankind they would NOT be seen as a Sentient Life Form like ourselves.

Another thing to Consider is that the Engineers could likely have many Worlds that have Very Human Life on them or they could have taken Humans in the Past or even just prior to the Intended Destruction to another Place.

So they would NOT be Destroying the Entire Race of Mankind, if we they had other Very Similar Creations or indeed 100% Humans elsewhere then for the Engineers the Destruction of Mankind would be something that WOULD-NOT weigh so much on their Mind.

It would have been Interesting to had seen what other Engineers would have Felt had Dr Shaw had got to MEET them.

Which will bring me to the Next Post.

"Maybe billions of years ago they fought and won wars against machines, and it's now completely taboo for them. Instead they live like monks"

Certainly you seemed to see some Compassion in the Engineers eyes towards David we could ponder if they had seen similar in the past with Consequences. 

The Engineer also seemed interested in Dr Shaw, especially if we look at the Extended Scenes of the Engineers.  Ultimately he witnessed via Peter Weylands Actions and Demands that Mankind are a Race that are Selfish and Wicked and NOW have Finally Evolved Technologically to Reach the Stars and maybe be able to USE their Technology.

But back to DAVID....

The Revelation by Ridley Scott that those Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals, and how he mentions about AI and the Replicants are AI.  Taking this on board then it could be a Indication that the Augmented/Enhanced Prometheus Engineers are more similar to the Replicants?

If so then the Engineer would have been looking at a Mirror of himself when he saw David, and this maybe explains his PITY.  But Ultimately he also realized the Hubris and Downfall a Sub-Creation could bring, maybe he knows the Potential because this is what they had attempted against their Creators?

@BigDave, I agree, it's very likely that the Engineers have overseen the development of countless humanoid races on numerous worlds. It would be interesting to know if their efforts are highly directed to construction of the humanoid form. That would be consistent with the story of God creating Man in his own image.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe that the Engineers would find ways of 'improving' their own form to produce a higher form of perfection, or indeed practise eugenics to create individual castes. Who knows, the Engineers on LV-223 might have been specifically created to  make a caste best-suited for space travel. I suppose you could call such beings Replicants. More Engineer than Engineer.

I'd be careful in what Ridley says about AI. There's AI and there's AI. A swarm of infectious particles (in Covenant) could be operating in unison by completely artificial and computational means, but that's a long way from how we ordinarily think of AI as being a completely artificial thinking entity. We could bio-engineer humanity ourselves, if ethics permitted, but we wouldn't have created an AI.

I think when the Engineer was looking at David it was certainly with pity. He would have appreciated that a highly intelligent thinking machine was in front of him. But he wasted no time at all in destroying what - for him - amounted to an abomination. Symbolically bashing in Weyland's skull with the product of his creation was a nice touch!

The Engineer certainly knows the potential of the upstart creatures that broke his millennial slumber. Indeed, he would see their presence as an immediate affirmation of the Engineer code of ethics, which I believe are: Thou shalt not create thinking machines. Thou shalt not permit thinking machines to be created. Thy children will permit enslavement on pain of extermination.

"I'd be careful in what Ridley says about AI. There's AI and there's AI."

Certainly i think we also have to remember that A.I is Very Ambiguous, most seem to think it has to do with Robotics and Software.

If we was to Advanced Genetics to the Point we could create a Hybrid Human/Ape that would then gain more Intelligence lets say we have Created this!

You could say this would be a Artificially Created Intelligent Life Form... thus a A.I.

We could Ponder if David takes those Embryos and he Enhances them, maybe even giving them None-Human Traits then they would be a A.I too.

Yes we could also consider that if the GOO from the Prequels is NOT a Natural Substance then it could also be classed as a A.I

I do suspect that the Prometheus Engineers are Genetically Enhanced Sub-Creation by the Planet 4 Engineers (which could class them as a A.I), or if not they are a Group who had Genetically Altered themselves in which case we maybe cant class them too much as a A.I.  I have made this TOPIC to cover that and what such a Revelation would have on the Plot.

BigDave

I wonder how you deduce the Engineers being sterile? In that case, wouldn't Planet 4 be empty of Engineers (2000 years after the outbreak on LV-223)? Just a huge graveyard?

Yes, there are themes of not being able to procreate: Sir Peter Weyland has only a daughter. David is the nearest he gets to a son. I wonder why he didn't get more children (he's got everything)? Shaw is unable to get children (although she births a trilobite) and David obviously can't create children (not human anyway).

But the Engineers? Why shouldn't they be able to procreate? They lived a happy life on Planet 4 with Engineers in abundance (until David arrived).

"I wonder how you deduce the Engineers being sterile? "

I must Apologize for some Confusion, i am assuming this is in reply to my TOPIC?  If so i understand that sometimes wires can get crossed, well that its sometimes a Tedious Task to Read my Long Replies/Topics so something can be missed ;) (by the reader).

I do-not speculate our Engineers in Total are Sterile, Alien Covenant proves this to NOT be the case.  But prior to Alien Covenant this was a subject to debate regarding our Marble White Engineers. which the original idea was that they WAS (Sterile) a potential consequence of Genetic Manipulation gone too far. But off course this does-not mean thats the case as far as the Theatrical Release of Prometheus.. it was something that was NEVER answered either way, despite the Sacrificial Engineer having NO Nipples.

With RS coming out to say the Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals i think leaves it open for the Prometheus Engineers to be a Engineered Sub-Creation or a group that had Genetically Enhanced themselves and this opens up the debate about IF those Engineers (Prometheus Marble White Dudes) are Sterile?

But thats probably better off discussed on the Topic The Engineers (Sub Creation)

The relation to this Topic as a Invitation is only relevant in maybe WHICH of those Engineer Groups had left those Star Maps.  Which really could be a open ended debate with a number of more Possibilities if we are Wondering WHICH kind of Engineers had interacted with Mankind.  But then who is to say that there is NO real difference between those Engineers and the comment by RS about the Planet 4 ones being Originals does not imply any Genetic Differences. Or Certainly not from a Engineered POV.

PS i Apologize again...

Realized that i had mentioned it on this Topic here

"The Earlier Drafts do give some possible hints, as far as Prometheus goes, which maybe sets us on a path to Ponder that these are a Species who LOST the ability to Procreate"

So this was as i was saying, in context that the Original Idea was a Species that LOST the ability to Procreate (Alien Engineers) which Prometheus was a little more ambiguous about.  So the point i was making was as far as when RS called the Planet 4 (not so Engineer looking) guys the Originals.... and how RS then also called the Replicants a A.I... so i was WONDERING if this means those Prometheus Engineers are like the Engineers versions of Replicants and thus wondering if they are Sterile ;)

There is very LITTLE doubt that the Planet 4 Engineers cant Procreate, it seems Certain they can.  We dont 100% know if the Prometheus ones can either thats a bit more OPEN for Debate... unless we assume they and the Planet 4 Engineers are the Same.  Which they could be as its only a comment by Ridley Scott and comments about not wanting to meet Gods in the First Movie that can leave us to Speculate the Prometheus Engineers are different.