A Welcoming Reception

I think that was a Dilemma they Faced with a Prometheus 2.

*David and Dr Shaw arrive at the Engineers Home World.

*Are these Engineers going to be welcoming them open Arms?

*Dr Shaw would be willing to take that Chance, but David would wanted to SURVIVE and if he had any SINGLE doubt that the Engineers would RIP his Head Off, then i feel he would have NOT taken that Chance.

So it was LIKELY he was going to BOMB! them...

We could have had some Survivors, we could have had Dr Shaw kept Alive and she would ASK what Happened and David maybe lies to her..... UNTIL she discovers the Truth and maybe a Survivor to TWO...

Something Similar could have Happened but we are just NOT shown this Period of Events that Transpired in the Weeks/Months following the Bombardment.

I just feel that MOST Fans would not want to see much about the Culture as far as Ancient History, but would rather see about their Bio-Mechanical Technology and HOW/WHEN they obtained this, and WHAT connection they had with LV-223 and those Ships...

"This could be interesting to see but it would have to need the human journey at the center of the movie"

This is the BIG PROBLEM they Faced with the WHOLE Plot as far as WHO the Space Jockey are...

If the Space Jockey were a ALIEN Species, who looked NOTHING like Humans, then what we have to then look at is the Following...

*How does any Humans end up in Contact with these Alien Beings, by pure Coincidence and LV-426 or a Next Door Moon?  As to be lead by the Space Jockey SOS would just be a ALIEN re-hash of sorts.

*How do the Humans Interact with these beings, would a Alien Species who has NO distant contact with Mankind even be able to Communicate, would they want to?

*How would we discover what the Agenda of the Space Jockey Race was, and WHY they had the Cargo and WHERE was they taking it?

Because then a Sequel would take us where? To this Alien Species Home World?, to the Species they intended to USE the EGGS on?  Or to the World the Eggs came from?

I guess we never needed to see Xenomorphs Talk to Humans and so maybe the Space Jockey would have NO-NEED either and have even Less Interaction than the SUPER-PREDATOR did from The Predator!

They came up with the Engineers Plot so at least there is a Connection, a Reason for HOW/WHY any Humans would come into Contact with a World/Race related to the Derelict.  And have some way of Communication.

With the SEQUEL... they then Faced another Problem...

HOW would any Engineers React towards Dr Shaw and David and then HOW do they introduce more Human Characters...

The Alien Covenant PLOT got around this.... it should have given more Information about the Engineers, and revealed that David had Created a Improved Xenomorph with some Clues to HOW the Original was obtained..

But ALAS!

Big Dave

I am not interested in Shaw but they could have made better characters if they would have had someone that could write characters. Maybe she would have been alright if she would have been like in The Crossing. At least they could have had some Engineers survive instead of the total slaughter that it became.

Maybe but at least I would think that their culture could have been interesting. I would have liked to see more bio-mechanical things because how it was in AC was not very impressive. To see more about their technology could have been interesting. Prometheus had problems but I do not think that the Engineers were one of them, rather I have heard some podcast and read threads on forums where they have talked positively about the Engineers. We have some interest there even though maybe limited since it id difficult to know if those opinions are representative of the fandom or movie-goers as a whole.

"… but would rather see about their Bio-Mechanical Technology and HOW/WHEN they obtained this, and WHAT connection they had with LV-223 and those Ships…"

That would have been interesting, I still would like to see their connection to the Xeno-like monsters. In no way will I accept to have David as the creator of the monsters, sorry but that won't happen but that could be corrected by showing that David copied what came before or made his own version a lesser one.

Those are interesting questions that I am not sure if I have an answer to. Maybe to the Alien species home-world or the world where the eggs came from seems the most interesting to me.
A plot with the Engineers was interesting in itself even though the Engineers could have been explained better but the foundation was right I think.

"The Alien Covenant PLOT got around this.... it should have given more Information about the Engineers, and revealed that David had Created a Improved Xenomorph with some Clues to HOW the Original was obtained.."

But it made in such a way that made the movie less interesting than it could have been. I was looking forward to see more about the Engineers but this movie just screwed that up and instead it was about a sadistic robot. You are totally right about more about the Engineers and that David made his own version and how the original became what it is.

If they shall write a new prequel they need IMO

• Better human characters/a writer that knows how to make human characters
• Let Scott stick to directing, Not writing otherwise we will get another stupid David-movie. If he can not stop interfering in the writing they should get another director.
• Much less of David/androids
• More about the Engineers and by that I mean the Prometheus ones (not those in AC). Maybe we could have different kinds of Engineers.

I think there are Problems you would FACE with any kind of Sequel that would include the Engineers in anything more than Flash Backs!

Firstly you have to come up with HOW the Humans can Interact with the Engineers, having a Synthetic Translate every Sentence could become Repetitive and Limiting.

Secondly its HOW and WHEN and WHERE do you come into contact with the Engineers.

Finally we have to look at How Many of the Engineers there are and their Outlook on Mankind, especially once some Humans turn up out of the Blue, Uninvited.

Picture this..... what if David and Dr Shaw had found another Juggernaught with all FOUR of the Crew Alive and in Stasis and WOKE them up.... or instead of Dr Shaw and David a incoming Human Mission to LV-223.

Going by the LV-223 Engineer reaction (Theatrical and Ridley Scotts intentions) then i doubt they would even give any Answers, they would likely just TEAR the Intruders up... or maybe they take some to Torture/Experiment on?

A similar Problem would occur with Planet 4, we dont know how those Guys would have Reacted, would they have reacted Hostile?  Who knows...  I think that would have been Interesting.... but then depending or regardless of how they would react, it would Conflict the Franchise because of WHY have we not seen them come back?

The Logical Conclusion would be that at some Point we would see DAVID.. Unleash Hell on them!

This was something that RS had indicated that would have Happened Regardless, but it seems we would have had more Interaction with the Engineers First.....

But then we got Alien Covenant, which appears to be NOT what Ridley Scott wanted but what FOX wanted from him.

Because not having a Xenomorph is something they felt was Missing.... but then we have to go back and look at the Alternatives!

Could a Movie Work that....

*Has only ONE Human Character Dr Shaw, and Rely on David to Translate for her?

*How many Engineers would they Discover and HOW would this impact the Movie?

So a Problem would be Human Characters... having a Movie that would be like say a Hours worth of like the Deleted Engineer talks to David Scene would not WORK!

Even if David could teach Dr Shaw their Language, or there was a way she could Communicate with them (they had some Technology)  then again a Movie with a Synthetic and a Single Human Character who would be Interacting with a Handful or many more Engineers, would again NOT work!

Well  such things would not interest many, and would be difficult to pull off....  Fans would also want Xenomorphs or Answers too...

Hence why i feel that AC we had a PLOT where Planet 4 was closer to Earth, so that it was in reach of a Human Ship so that more Human Characters/Fodder could be introduced!

HOWEVER......

It did-not need to be that way....

I began to work on 3 Prometheus Sequels... the First would not have had much about Engineers, or David or Shaw... but it would have Scenes that Flash Back to those.

The Next One which would have been my Prometheus 3 we Finally arrive at a Engineer World!   And it takes David and Dr Shaw a VERY LONG Time... say 100 Years. The Galaxy is a BIG PLACE!  The Distance to Zeta 2 (39LY) is Nothing in the Grand Scale of a Galaxy that at its Furthest Point A-B is 100'000 Light Years.

And the Engineers had Maps to other Galaxies and so the Scope was Massive!

I wont go into detail here about what my P3 was about as there was about 4-5 ideas for it that was really similar to each other.

I will just ASK these...

*Is the Earth the only Place with Humans (interacted with/created by Engineers).

*Would the Engineers put so much Time into Mankind to then DESTROY us all?   GOD had destroyed Mankind, but even he allowed Noah and his Family to Survive.

So there is the Scope for Humans or Very Similar to be elsewhere in the Galaxy, be that the Engineers had NOT put all the EGGS into One Basket (Earth) or that they had come to Rescue in a ARK of Sorts some Humans before they intended to PULL THE PLUG!

Could such a Human Colony/Civilization live in Harmony with the Engineers or a Handful of Engineer Watchers?

Do these Engineers know about LV-223, was it a Place that was always for that ONE Purpose, and IF SO/NOT what does these other Engineers know about it?

And what do the Humans they live among know about it?

How would those Engineers and Humans feel about David?

What if the LV-223 Engineers were different to the other Engineers, and what if the LV-223 kind were similar to HOW our David is to us?

Would these Engineers be concerned about David, a Immortal Superior being, would David be disappointed in these Engineers and how they would have a Great Fondness of Humans but a dislike for the LV-223 Engineers and David (Synthetic Creations).

Could we then learn a bit more about those LV-223 Engineers and a Rebellion?

Would some of the Engineers have concerns about David and his interest in the LV-223 Engineers and his Disapproval with Mankind?

Is LV-223 their Dirty Little Secret?  Is there another Agenda that those Engineers want hidden from the Humans they live with?

How would those Humans feel about the History of Mankind, our Religions, Gods... and what the Engineers had been up to on LV-223

These Humans not being told they are NOT alone, and that there are others in the Galaxy, and that the Engineers had intended to Destroy them...

And what Effect would Dr Shaw's Faith have on those Humans?

These are ALL points i was taking on with my Prometheus 3.

It was a case of WHO would be the ONE to KICK OFF!

*Engineers vs David due to Concerns about him?

*David to try and kill those Humans or Engineers? (maybe if he felt they would try and get rid of him).

*Engineers try to get rid of Dr Shaw after seeing the Negative Effect she has on the other Humans. (would David then Unleash Hell to Protect Her).

*Dr Shaw discover a Sinister Agenda these Humans are not aware of (i was thinking like some are Chosen to go to a Paradise, so it was very like the Movie THE ISLAND... only the Real Truth to the Off World Destination for them was Horrific.  Does she inform the Humans, and what would the Engineers then do?

So there was a LOT of what IF with how to continue and i just could not PIN-POINT a Single Whole Story that i liked..

But this shows that you COULD have gone to a FAR FAR FAR away Place where there are other Humans...

They dont always have to come from Earth or Weyland Yutani... the Prometheus Scope was Bigger than the 40LY Radius that the ALIEN Franchise was set in!

If i was to look at this TOPIC Dead in the Water as far as COULD we explore the Engineers more, then i think that YES you could do, they are NOT all Dead.... not as far as the Scope of the Plot.

By that do we assume the Engineers are only limited to a 40LY Radius of Earth?

The RED Dot being the Area that the ALIEN Franchise has been Confined too (Includes Prequels).  GREEN dots just being a example of where Engineer Worlds could be, but they could be anywhere else in the Galaxy and Many More, the Image is just to show that you could have Engineers located at a Greater Distance from Earth that Mankind can-not Reach as far as Time-Line of the Franchise.

And so to Consider that and what i put in the previous post regarding some ideas for the Prometheus 3 i was working on in 2013-2014, then POTENTIALLY you could have other Worlds where HUMANS are that we have these Civilizations being there for Thousands of Years and so they DONT come from Earth... or they could do but are TAKEN from Earth by the Engineers in the Ancient Past!

so you could explore a Specific Area of the Galaxy thats FAR FAR away or even another Galaxy Completely and have HUMANS and also Engineers.

A TV Series would be best for this...

You can explore a World where Humans and Engineers interact, we can be shown them Speaking in a ALIEN or Earlier Human Language and we have Sub Titles for a bit of Dialog....

Before they then START to speak English... (so we understand this is for our Convenience only).

You will get some Fans who may feel you would not connect with Human Characters unless they are FROM our Planet Earth.... but with the PLOT of Prometheus can we really say that HUMANS come from Earth?

Is there any Proof in Context to the Franchise?

We could reveal that Humans come from somewhere else and a Colony of them was sent to Earth Many Many Thousands of Years ago....  OR that Many Many Thousands of Years ago, Humans were taken from Earth and Spread to other Parts of the Galaxy by the Engineers.

We have to remember Star Wars has Humans but is SET in a FAR FAR away Galaxy, so do they Speak English? or is that for our Convenience?   The same goes for the Caprica/Battle Star Galactica Plot too.

You see RS had said the ALIEN Franchise could be as Big as Star Trek and Star Wars... some looked at that as a ODD comment.... well it is ODD if we just limit the ALIEN Franchise as being about Xenomorphs, Weyland-Yutani and Ripley!!!!

RS wanted to STEER away from Alien with the Prequels, he felt the Prometheus Plot had Great Potential.... and he had to mean as far as a Ancient Race of Gardner's of Space.. Genetic Gardeners... if these Guys go around Seeding Worlds and then Visiting, Upgrading, Evolving and Teaching these Creations... then SURELY that is NOT limited to just on EARTH!

Which means we DONT have to Limit Humans to being on Earth!

A TV Series about a Series of Worlds with Humans on and Engineers interacting with them, that are 30'000 Light Years from Earth would give us a SPIN-OFF that deals with Engineers, Humans and other Creations that would NOT have to Conflict the ALIEN Franchise at all.

But i think a lot of Fans will NEVER accept anything that does-not connect to ALIEN and the Xenomorph... they would ONLY be interested in HOW/WHEN/WHY those Engineers had dealings with Xenomorphs and would expect to see Queens and the like!

So i think the Prequels and what they set up are DEAD!

And Disney will just give us Xenomorphs, Queens and RIPLEYS!

BD

Sure there would have been problems with the script but maybe we could have been given some answers about Engineers and the Xeno. It is not an easy task to get it right but at least we would get to know some. Look at the Emperor in Star Wars, we know that he was a politician (prequels) and did horrible things and became a dictator (6) but we never get to know everything about him but we know enough. In the same way we do not need to know everything about the Engineers and the Xeno but be given enough interesting things to keep on talking about them.

"Secondly its HOW and WHEN and WHERE do you come into contact with the Engineers."

Some planet somewhere, that got be dealt with in the movie David managed to get there. How many Engineers there are, that can be done in some way. I do not think that AC did that wrong even though I kind of imagined it being more cities on that planet.

"Going by the LV-223 Engineer reaction (Theatrical and Ridley Scotts intentions) then i doubt they would even give any Answers, they would likely just TEAR the Intruders up... or maybe they take some to Torture/Experiment on?"
We could have been given some answers and also we could also have avoided it being about a crazy robot. Some answers are better than none.

"This was something that RS had indicated that would have Happened Regardless, but it seems we would have had more Interaction with the Engineers First..…"
Some interaction with the Engineers is the important part here, that would have been interesting to see but they should have had someone that knows how to write interesting human characters that works like real humans and that do not make mistakes every now and then. Write mistakes that make sense and that do not touch everything that is there (snakes in P, plants in AC), that is something that the writers did not learn from. They need to be smarter about that given that humans are not perfect of course.

"But then we got Alien Covenant, which appears to be NOT what Ridley Scott wanted but what FOX wanted from him."

I think that Scott And Fox are to blame. He seems to be only talking about AI and David and very little about the importance about human characters so yes I blame him much for that although I do not think that it is his fault only. Fox probably though that all the audience wanted was Aliens but when I looked around the www most of was I saw was comments about stupid characters which means that Fox never understood what the criticism was about. Maybe Scott does not understand how important that is to a movie and also I am not sure if he understands how writing-structure works (writing-structure is a word that I got from the AVP-galaxy podcast). This is the same as with Prometheus, I do not think that the problem was not all Lindelof's.

"Hence why i feel that AC we had a PLOT where Planet 4 was closer to Earth, so that it was in reach of a Human Ship so that more Human Characters/Fodder could be introduced!"

Yeah that makes sense

"How many Engineers would they Discover and HOW would this impact the Movie?"

Wouldn't that depend on their attitude towards the humans? Never the less it could have been interesting to watch.

"So a Problem would be Human Characters... having a Movie that would be like say a Hours worth of like the Deleted Engineer talks to David Scene would not WORK!"

I totally agree about that

"Fans would also want Xenomorphs or Answers too..."

I would have liked that but it would have been closer to the engineers and hinted at rather than to have David responsible for it. The answer that we got was really crappy if you ask me because if we stick with that then they should throw the prequels in the trash-can and start over again or make a movie where it shows that David just made his version.

I like the idea of different kinds of Engineers that are living on different planets. Maybe a civil war among different kinds of Engineers given that there are different factions. Perhaps the SJ could be one of those but then we also need to remember the scale of the SJ and how they need to keep that as realistic as possible.

Sorry, I am not interested in Shaw or David so I do not want any of them to have a big role in it although they could have parts in the story. At least do not make David into a Hannibal Lecter kind of type which he became in Covenant. He could at least have had some sympathetic traits in him which he did not have at all yeas he was interesting but totally dislikable.

"By that do we assume the Engineers are only limited to a 40LY Radius of Earth?"

Some of them maybe but then there could be Engineers that live on planets that are further away than that. I imagine that they might have technology that makes planets habitable but at the same time we don't know what they need to survive. Do they eat and if so what do they need?

"You will get some Fans who may feel you would not connect with Human Characters unless they are FROM our Planet Earth.... but with the PLOT of Prometheus can we really say that HUMANS come from Earth?"

Some fans is the important part here, I would connect with the characters if they are sympathetic (at least some of them because humans can be in many ways which is both good and bad) and smart. Then we have dumb-asses like Fifield and Milburn who have zero redeemable traits. My point is that if they are well-written and sympathetic it might work no matter if they are from earth or another planet.

"You see RS had said the ALIEN Franchise could be as Big as Star Trek and Star Wars... some looked at that as a ODD comment.... well it is ODD if we just limit the ALIEN Franchise as being about Xenomorphs, Weyland-Yutani and Ripley!!!!"

Yeah, I responded with no because it is not set up that way. Even if they opened it up some way with the Engineers the foundation of it is too limited so even if he is right in a way I think that his way of thinking is exaggerated.

"RS wanted to STEER away from Alien with the Prequels…"

If he meant that there were more than the Xenos he is correct but he put that in such a way that it was very difficult to understand his way of thinking. He should have a translator that is like "what Scott really means is. . ."LOL! My point is that he is difficult to understand and sometimes he changes his views kind of fast.

"A TV Series about a Series of Worlds with Humans on and Engineers interacting with them, that are 30'000 Light Years from Earth would give us a SPIN-OFF that deals with Engineers, Humans and other Creations that would NOT have to Conflict the ALIEN Franchise at all.
But i think a lot of Fans will NEVER accept anything that does-not connect to ALIEN and the Xenomorph... they would ONLY be interested in HOW/WHEN/WHY those Engineers had dealings with Xenomorphs and would expect to see Queens and the like!"

Fans are different, I would like to see more of the engineers and I also think that the queen as an idea is dead. Maybe the Xenos can breed in different ways? You also mention Ripleys, I think that it would be repetitive to do that because even if I did not like Shaw at least that was not a repetition of Ripley. Even Daniels was more like Ripley but even if she was closer to Ripley like she does not take shit she was so vague as a character so I did not understand what her personality was (naive, logical, emotional, and so on). Honestly she was not the only one without personality, most of them were. This is not to say that humans are only this and that but that we need characters that are way better written than what the prequels have managed to do this far. Covenant improved on that so the characters was at least better than AR, AVP, AVPR (a really horrible movie, shit, trash), and Prometheus as far as the characters go but is still not enough at all. To me poorly written characters and too much David killed the prequels, not the lack of Xenos.

Thanks for the Reply...

I think things are in a Pickle at the Moment, it seemed that the Intention was to STEER away from ALIEN... sadly in HINDSIGHT that was NOT going to please Fans as Prometheus did-not Satisfy what Fans Expected.

They for the Most Part they expected more Answers about the Xenomorph Origins/Connections, it did-not mean we needed Carbon Copy Xenomorphs or to see the Derelict Event, we needed to see HOW things connected more and the MOVIE never had any ALIEN MONSTER Killing Scenes.

A Introduction of a ALIEN Monster that would have Interacted with and KILLED say 2-4 Crew but also did something to give us a Clue to the Xenomorph.

For Example... Imagine if as they got to DEAD Milburn, we saw a Hammerpede Attempt to Attack and get SHOT... we see its Body Split Open to Reveal either TINY Eggs that are similar to Xenomorph Eggs... or Tiny little Organisms.

Then Milburn goes on to Produce a Chest Buster or Head Buster that is more like the Baby Neomorph and this Escapes... and is Encountered Latter as a Adult.

You would see more of a Connection with ALIEN.

But we GOT what we GOT...

So on to a Sequel...

I would say after Prometheus here was some Questions the Alien/Aliens fans would have wanted...

*More Clues to HOW the stuff on LV-223 Connects to the Xenomorph.

*What happened on LV-223 in the Past.

*WHY was there those Experiments and what was the MURAL about.

*A Movie that gives some ALIEN Monsters to Attack the Humans.

How do you do that with a Movie that Follows Dr Shaw and David to go and TALK to some Engineers..... especially with a Movie where RS wants to STEER AWAY from ALIEN!

The Answer in HINDSIGHT.... a Prometheus Sequel that sends a Yutani Ship to LV-223 (or Weyland) where we can get a more ALIENY Monster Flick, with more Clues to what Happened on LV-223 and HOW it connects to the Xenomorph.

A Movie that would Please the Fans of Alien/Aliens and CLOSE the Door to ALIEN...

Then they make another Prometheus Sequel that goes off where David and Dr Shaw are going.... which is to a Engineer Related World that would have HUMANS as i described before.

A Movie that details the Engineers Ancient History and Agenda, and tackle the Creation/Seeding Purpose... but then also to tackle what LV-223 was and the LV-223 Engineers Fall....

At this POINT we then have Prometheus as the Bridge.. with ONE Sequel that goes to LV-223 and Connects more to ALIEN and another that Explores the Engineers.

Then judging BOTH movies, FOX could then see which to they Expand on....  

What the Company do next as far as LV-223 or what Horrors in the past also spawned from LV-223 (take us to another Infected/Targeted World)

Continue with the Aftermath of Dr Shaw and Davids discoveries in a FAR FAR FAR away World that Humans from Earth have NO chance of Reaching... thus a Unconnected Spin Off Franchise!

Leave both as a Prometheus Anthology and just move back to ALIEN Franchise movies set after the Events of ALIEN.

But we ENDED up with Alien Covenant that i feel was a MISTAKE!