The Crossing

I have Read the TWO Drafts for Alien Covenant, they seem to imply when the Covenant Crew arrive that the Planet has more LIFE than we have in the Movie, it implies that a Variety of Life is infected with the Pathogen in that they have become Carries of the Neomorph Infection.

As far as Engineers some are Described as being Desiccated where you can see Skeletal Features and other Described as being Petrified, so what we can take from that is for SOME REASON the remains had DRIED out, is this a Effect of the Black Goo.... or just over TIME.... so there are Factors that are at play that would Usually cause Bodies to Decompose.... that are NOT present or happening on Planet 4.

So regarding the CLIMATE its as i said before the ONLY way all those Bodies would look the way they did IF its not a Immediate Effect of the Black Goo (Turning Cells to like Solid Matter) then the Environment must have become in a way that would allow for MASS Desiccation which would mean the whole AREA would have to have became DRY and ARID, and caused the Bodies to Dry out Fast, also a Lack of Organisms that would Consume Flesh would also have to NOT be Present.

If this had Happened, then those Bodies would NOT be of use to David we can Assume, not in that State, but as i said before, he could have GOT to the Bodies before they had Dried Out....  but then depending HOW quick they would Dry Out... or Decompose while In-Doors would leave David a Limited Time to Conduct his Experiments.... and Studies.

From Hatton and Hallets comments on their Work, they imply that David had Living Engineer Specimens.. it seems a lot of his Work towards the Xenomorph was based off Engineer Reproductive Cells...

Regarding the Stampede then YES some could DIE during that, but its a case of WOULD the Pathogen Effect a Dead Person.... especially soon after Death because Cells are Still Alive for some time... again this is something we can only Guess.

Regarding being Held Up.... we see the Engineers trying to RUN Towards the Cathedral, a Logical Reaction to the Bombardment for those in the Distance would be to Seek SHELTER...

There are a FEW shots in the Movie that appear to show the Engineers trying to get past a Barrier Gate that is SHUT, there are also a Number of Engineers right outside the Cathedral as the Bombardment Started.

So NOT all Engineers were in that Courtyard, i think MANY were, and as soon as they Noticed what was going on they would FLEE to Safety...

The Question is WOULD there be any Place Safe?

Could Tiny Particles of the Pathogen had entered any place they are Hiding?  Could some in the Distance had been Infected with a Small Number of Particles before they made it INDOORS?

And so what would be such Effects, the Same? would they Survive Longer, but be Dying? would being IN-DOORS had prevented those from becoming Desiccated?

Surely some Engineers got inside the Cathedral before the Doors Closed, we dont see any Bodies inside, but we have NOT seen every Inch of the Building and any Bodies could have been Removed by David..

Or Experimented on by him IF their Bodies are Less Infected or Remains are in better Condition to do Anatomical Studies and Experiments on.

From the Persepective of Performing Studies then the Bodies would ideally have to be in some kind of Good Condition for the duration of how long his Studies had taken.

From working and Experimenting with the Pathogen, it would be ideal to HAVE some Uninfected and ideally LIVE Subjects to Test on...

As we DONT have any Direct Scenes or Flashbacks then it leaves it open to debate...

test

I don't see the logic in having living Engineers to experiment upon. That is precisely what David lacks: live specimens. That is the point of luring the Covenant crew to Planet 4: He needs a “mother”, a host.

If there had been living Engineers on which to experiment upon, you would not only get a xenomorph but an ultramorph. In Prometheus, it was easy to get a Deacon. No experimentation was needed. All you needed was the pathogen and a living host who then had sexual intercourse, and then yet another host . . .

I think thats down to interpretation...

David had conducted Experiments prior to Dr Shaw, his notes he had said the Human Genome Yielded better Results.   There is a lot of Mystery regarding the Experiments,  David could have had ONLY a Limited Number of Engineers to Experiment on, be they ALIVE or Dead but FRESH to conduct Experiments on.

If he had Harvested Engineer Egg Cells, it could be that he found that it was with Dr Shaw he gained his Success, and so he awaited for more Good Souls to come along.. but HOW would he know who would arrive First?  Humans or Engineers?

Regarding the Ultramorph this was a Old Concept that a 15ft Engineer would Birth a Larger more Superior Xenomorph due to them being Larger and more Superior Hosts... hence the Ultramorph was coined..

David had Experimented with Neomorphs and the like before the Covenant had arrived, so the Engineers acted similar as Hosts to what Humans would had been.

The Ultramorph Concepts did Vary, some were like the Neomorph, some like the Deacon and some were like HR Gigers Necromom IV.... the Concept of the Ultramorph was from Earlier Drafts of Prometheus, where it was indicated the Engineers had Created Various kinds of Xenomorph, we have NOT seen any Ultramorphs though, but i guess we could consider the Deacon as such.

So regarding No Experimentation then indeed David would had been interested to had seen what became of Dr Shaw's Child...

The options for this would have been.

*Infected Holloways Sperm, Infects Dr Shaws Egg Cell to create a Hybrid.

*Dr Holloway merely acted as a means to Transfer the Pathogen to Dr Shaw and this infected her Egg Cell

*As above but the Pathogen did-not infect a Egg Cell, it just used her Womb to Incubate.

There was No Way to determine which of this lead to the Trilobite, it was likely the First... 

In which case to Replicate the Deacon, then David would have to Obtain a Infected Engineers Sperm, and then use it on a Engineer Female,  would that WORK with Dead Engineers?  Who knows.

Not if he managed to Harvest a Female Egg Cells, but for how long would they be Viable after Death/Infection of the Pathogen.... would they NOT already be Infected?

If you was David you would also wonder what a Direct Infection of the Black Goo on a Egg Cell would do.

David had also taken notes on the Neomorph, so its a case of DID some Engineers just become Infected and Birth Neomorphs?   Could David had infected a Dead Engineer with the Spores?  But then how soon after the Bombardment had he discovered the Spores and then taken them to Dead Engineers and would they had been in a Good Enough Condition to Infect?

It seems David had been Experimenting with the Neomorph and Infection/Spores and Black Goo in Various Ways and then also using Various Organisms to Obtain certain Traits and Create Hybrids..

Until he had his Masterpiece.

I feel that having Alive Subjects and Organisms makes more Sense, surely such Experiments may not work on Desiccated Organisms?  Who knows.

Again they could be Carried out on Fresh Kills, but looking at all the Work David had done, then he would have had to Collect Fresh Dead Engineers and Organisms and had a way to STORE them from becoming Decomposed or Desiccated

From a Experimentation POV then Alive Specimens are best, or Recently Dead....

Yes, from the movie we learn that David knew about the neomorphs. He knew that they were afraid of light (why since they have no eyes?) or was it the sound? Had he witnessed Engineers step on mutated fungi and got infected by the spores? Had he witnessed Engineers giving birth to neomorphs and seen what they can do? Did he experiment on neomorphs? Wouldn’t an army of neomorphs be (almost) as deadly as an army of xenomorphs?

Was the mutated fungi a result of pathogen spilling out from the juggernaut into the stream and not from airborne pathogen? One also wonders what would become of infected birds, mammals and fish? It’s also interesting that the Covenant crew can get through the gates to the city but the Engineers couldn’t get out. Are they bigger?

Certainly  i think there is a lot of Mystery, certain things will depend upon other things for Example... "Had he witnessed Engineers step on mutated fungi and got infected by the spores?"  AND "Was the mutated fungi a result of pathogen spilling out from the juggernaut into the stream and not from airborne pathogen?"

Combining those would indicate that Engineers had Survived the Initial Bombardment, where we would then have to ASK how soon did any Urns Pour their Contents into the Stream, after the Crash and then HOW long does the Neomorph Spores take to Grown.. Instantly, Hours, Days etc... 

All we can do is look at the Clues and try and see what Makes sense and what makes sense to others may seem to make not much to others.....

So on ONE HAND... we could have the Bombardment had Spread across the Plaza and City and Infected/Killed the Engineers replicating inside them and then for some reason Days after the Engineers Remains would become Desiccated, a Number of Engineers got away from the Main Bombardment and so become Infected to a Smaller Degree where it TOOK longer to Die and for their Remains to become Desiccated/Decomposed which GAVE enough Time for David to Conduct Experiments on these.

And this includes Infants and Pregnant Females as they would NOT be heading to the Plaza...

Or on another HAND... as above but maybe some Engineers escaped and tried to HIDE AWAY but with Limited Food/Drink they became Weak and Emaciated and so DAYS/WEEKS latter  they was RIPE for the Pickings.

The Neomorph Spores are from Spilled Black Goo after the Crash.

On the Outer Skirts of the City the Infection either Spreads to the Forest Stream and Juggernaut to Cause the Neomorph Spores... or they are the Result of Spilled Pathogen after the CRASH!

And its not a case of JUST those TWO... there could be Variants of Events between both...

I think a Interesting Thing to Consider would be WHAT series of Events would be more Disturbing and Interesting to see if we got a MOVIE, a Novel or Graphic Novel.

I think ONE thing is Certain, it seems Dr Shaw had Survived the Crash and so it would be Interesting to see HOW Long she had Survived before she Died and what Reason she eventually Died!

If you only go by the Movie, then you could Assume She died NOT LONG after the Crash, was she Infected and so David just FELT oh well may as well USE HER?  It seems more likely that you could ASSUME he tried to RAPE her and she Rejected so he KILLED her and decided to Butcher her Body.

I think there is more to those Events than just that!

A case of she AWAKES to Find the Ship Crashed, and then David goes up to her Tries it on, gets Rejected and he KILLS her would be well a Total Waste of Time... i am sure more Sinister Outcome after a Discovery of Lies would be more Fitting!

He LIES to her about the Accidental Bombardment, says Outside is NOT save so she is Confined for Weeks, then as he brings her Food/Drink she gets Suspicious... he says that Despite Paradise being Destroyed, THEY could Rebuild it.... she asks HOW.. he says he could Discover a way for her to Bare Children and ONCE the Contamination has passed, they can START A NEW EDEN..

They could Raise Many Children... she says WHY.. he says because its the ONE THING she could NOT have and he LOVES her... maybe he gets all Touchy Feel

Anyway a Day or so PASSES and she Sneaks Out and discovers she can BREATH outside, she then follows him to the City, and Stumbles on his Workshop and Engineer Females who are Chained Up, and Babies that he is experimenting with!

At this POINT she would have a Horrific Revelation that David is NOT who she felt he was... and she would WANT to TRY and Escape.... he could then Catch Her... say he DID IT ALL for her... KILLED the Engineers... Experimented with the Females and Babies so that he could DISCOVER a way so Dr Shaw could BARE CHILD..

He then Tries to KISS HER... she gets away and he attacks her from Behind and Kills her.. or she Attacks him and Escapes but he then Tracks her Down and KILLS her.

I think such things would make more Sense, a Tragedy for Dr Shaw, and more Horrific

So neomorphs are Engineered creatures that grow to a certain size and regardless what species their host( Elephant/dog/cow/goldfish, etc..), they would still be humanoid like creatures?

They seem far more 'perfect' then a lumbering xeno.

From Davids workshop subjects, I assumed he created the neomorphs?

Or did he just study them?

This is really confusing.

Why are neomorphs human like...I can't believe you mix plant life and black goo to produce a humanoid creature?

Id like to think Shaw was backburst and David just did what he could to save her.

The Neomorphs are a Infection/Organism that comes from Contact with the Spores..... 

The Spores are something that Evolved from Fungi that grew from the Mold, found at points near Water Supply that lead from the Cargo Bay to the Stream.

So the Crashed Juggernaut had Torn/Scouped up some of the Mountain, Rain causes a Stream to Run over/under the Juggernaut (as it sits on where Water Runs down Mountain to the Stream)

Eventually Mold, Moss and Fungi Grow inside the Cargo Hold, and a Leaked Urn/Ampoule would have Infected the Water Supply and Evolved the Fungi into Neomorph Spores, the Pathogen then also running down the Stream and Evolving other Areas of Fungi to more Spores.

so the Neomorphs are a Result of the Pathogen and NOT by David.

He had however Experimented with the Neomorphs, creating Hybrids with other Organic Matter/Life, he had Experimented and Evolved and Cross Hybrid Various Organisms to obtain the Desired Traits towards making his Xenomorph.

Likely the Black Goo was the TOOL to allow for Cross Hybridization and likely then he had use the Desired Results to then Infect Engineer Egg Cells and then Dr Shaw's to Create his Ovomorphs.

Regarding Dr Shaw's Fate...

That is something to Speculate, its Certain she Survived the Crash, its Certain she Trusted David but then something Happened that caused her to FEAR him.

Then things went Sour...

It looks like Dr Shaw had played a Role in the Creation of the Xenomorph Eggs... so its LIKELY her Reproductive Cells played a Role!

It had been indicated that David may have offered to EVOLVE her, and she REJECTED this...

some of his Drawings depict Dr Shaw with Various Mutations, Various Experiments and things done to her Body, and what seems like he Infected her with a Face Hugger.

Some of these MAY have happened, some could be what he had Intended, and some are just Basically Fantasies of his...

Its quite Ambiguous....   The Drafts to Alien Covenant seem to indicate Dr Shaw may have Provided a Important Part of the Puzzle to get the Eggs...  And then he TRIED on of them out on HER... to NO Success!

It simply NEVER Gestated as FAR as Orams... it would seem that David had NEVER got to see his Final Masterpiece due to lack of Hosts.... which he Finally got more Hosts once the Covenant had picked up the Signal that David had sent.

But he had seen a Number of Neomorphs and other things he had Created from them, in his Work to Perfect his Experiments which became the Eggs...

But its Ambiguous as some of his Work, indicates he had managed to Gestate a Xenomorph from a Female Engineer.

What's the point of hosts again? Nutrient sacks? It doesn't use the hosts DNA to create something new.....A neomorph will appear from a goat or a human.

Alien 3 is the only time this changes?

I would say that the Pathogen in Context to the Infected Neomorph Spores will USE a Host to take on Traits and use the Hosts DNA to Evolve/Gestate the Neomorph.

I would say that would explain WHY it had a somewhat Human Form..

Again though, we could look at the Motes from within the Spores simply Need to take on Nutrients to Grow... either way it seems a Host is Required...

Also i would assume a Neomorph Spore could infect a Goat, but would the Resulting Neomorph be Bi-Pedal?  I think maybe we could get the same Difference between a Goat Neomorph and Human similar to the Cow/Dog Alien compared to Human Xenomorph we saw in the Franchise.

The Neomorphs did seem to walk about more like the Runner in Alien 3 anyway, i would say just as there are NOT a massive Difference between Alien 3 Runner and Alien Drone, i think a Goat Neomorph would likely be similar to a Human Neomorph... maybe the Goat Version could have Horns?

So indeed the Neomorph/Xenomorph maybe does-not take on a Massive Amount of a Hosts Traits?  They are mainly just INCUBATORS for the Parasitic Organisms.

Well, I’m not sure that there were any Engineers surviving the genocide and if there weren’t, there couldn’t have been any neomorphs in the likeness of what the motes produce when the host is a human. I agree that “the monster” which is the result has taken on traits from its host. As a matter of fact, the neomorph in Spaihts original script had a likeness of Holloway.

The mote is like a miniature mosquito but it drills down under the skin of the host and lays mutated eggs. But what’s really at work is the pathogen whose sole purpose is to eradicate life, kill all fauna. “Puff spores” were indigenous but mutated by the pathogen into the spore sprouting fungi (the spore bacteria entering the host had mutated into some kind of eggs).

I don’t think David’s “Bestiary” contains neomorphs but hybrids and mutated forms of insects and small creatures living in water and on land (but in the novelization, there are stuffed neomorphs, xenomorphs and a living egg with a living facehugger - none of which David has created). There are mutations of larger beasts (and Engineers) but they were probably dead when David found them.

However, if one looks at David’s drawings it’s possible that some Engineers survived and David experimented on some of them (tortured them) but I don’t find that likely. There would already be neomorphs around (perhaps even xenomorphs or Deacons) when the Covenant crew arrive.

As David says himself:

"I have taken great pains to detail every step, every cell, every mutation, unfortunately none of the planet's life has been proven to be very fruitful. I had some interesting results, but was still far from perfection. With Shaw I realised there was something extraordinary in the substance reaction to the human genome. I was able to unlock new properties and tweak the organisms aggression. An instinct for survival. It took years. But I finally found my wolf. And now I have my flock of lambs too."

Nota bene: The Engineer and the human genome are almost identical.

Ahh..Okay that makes sense. Thanks BigDave and Chli.

Like to see a horned neomorph!

I can see that as a Valid Point.... we DONT know how Long do Neomorphs or Xenomorphs stay Alive for... it was indicated before they would live for  a Short Time but we dont have any real Evidence of HOW-LONG, it seems Certainly its not Days/Weeks as Evidence in ALIENS.

So we dont know if ANY of the Neomorphs/Xenomorphs that had been Gestated prior to the Covenant, could be DEAD, or maybe even Experimented on and Studied by David, it seems he has done a Fair Share of that, so its LIKELY that somehow these must have came from some kind of Humanoid Hosts.

Its a case of can a Neomorph/Xenomorph Infect a Carcass?

The Puff Balls are interesting they would Grow from Damp Conditions where Mold, Moss and Fungi would grow, but that Does-Not mean they could not have been a Kind of Fauna that as Infected by the Pathogen and NOT mutated so much, but just that the Pathogen would HIJACK the Fauna's Method of Procreation to be used to Spread the Pathogens Neomorphs.

Same with the Insects some look like they had NOT been infected much (as in Mutated), but they had been HIJACKED to Spread the Motes.....

Dr Shaw in Prometheus seemed to NOT have any signs of Infection apart from her Reproductive System being HIJACKED... so if she became SIMILAR to those Puff Balls and Insects, then it would be that she would for Instance, just Continue to Gestate Trilobites over and over as a Example.

So for Example.. it would be like a Male being Infected like Holloway and they look like they are not Infected.. No Mutations.... just their SEED is HIJACKED to then Impregnate Females with a Trilobite Organism.

Of course we saw Holloway start to go through some other Changes latter on, before he got VICKERS to KILL HIM.

so maybe the Pathogen has a different effect on some Organic Life, such as Insects and Fungi.

When trying to Figure Out what had been going on, then you can get some different Conclusions depending on WHAT you look at.... the Movie does-not give us a CLOSE UP and in Depth Look at Davids Workshop so some stuff could be MISSED...   But other stuff is there None the Less.

Using the Novel can give a Different Account, even the Drafts differ a bit from the Novel too.

We do see what appears to be a Neomorph, we also see what seems to be a Hybrid Neomorph as David is likely trying to Re-Engineer his own Version of the Neomorph that comes from the Motes/Spores.

We have to Speculate on HOW these came about IF there was NO Hosts of Humanoid Genetics to Gestate them, did he have time to Gestate these from FRESH DEAD from the Bombardment too?

So was there Survivors, had another Group of Humans arrived Prior (doubt it) but then MAYBE he had used Dr Shaw to Produce them and was Able to Extract the Organisms before they DID any Terminal Damage to Dr Shaw?

There is a lot f Ambiguity, especially depending on what Sources you use for Evidence/Clues...  we could wonder IF that Planet had Primates?   Concepts from a Very Earlier idea of a Prometheus 2 seem to indicate that the World David went to had APES....   So if Planet 4 had Apes then those could also Spawn Neomorphs that would maybe NOT be too Different to those from a Human or Engineer Host.

"With Shaw I realized there was something extraordinary in the substance reaction to the human genome. "

If we take this at Face Value then we have to Conclude...

He had Experimented with Engineer Genome (likely Living) but when he Experimented with Dr Shaw he saw some much more Desired Results... despite Humans and Engineers being CLOSE Genetically.

Or he had Limited Results with Engineers Genome due to NOT having any Ideal Hosts he had to make do with the Carcasses of Deceased Engineers.

But then would he NOT have Suggested he had more Success with Dr Shaw because he had a Living Specimen to Test with?

Well, he could, of course, say that the human genome gave better results in comparison to the indigenous life that was left (none of the planet's life has been proven to be very fruitful).

I agree that it's possible that he experimented on Engineers, but he also experimented on Shaw (apart from indigenous life forms). The neomorph-like creatures in his lab might have come from his experimentation with her (just as the final product - the xeno-eggs)?

Personally, I don't think a neo- or xenomorph have any use of a carcass (except maybe for eating) but it seems that David used dead body parts in his experiments. We know from "Advent" that he "salvaged" parts from Shaw's dead body and mixed it with the pathogen and other stuff.

I think the Problems Arise from HOW basic a Workshop he had.

These Concepts seem to show he had more Technology Available that would make Experiments more Easier...

These Experiments could indicate the Possibility of Extracting and Fertilizing (or just Infecting) Egg Cells and then Growing the Embryo's

Indeed he could do Similar on the Covenant Ship, by Simply Extracting and Infecting say Daniels Eggs, or Fertilizing them with say Tennessee's Sperm and then he could Grow them in a Similar way to HOW those Covenant Colonist Embryo's could have been.

But his Work Shop/Cathedral seems to NOT have any such more Modern Tools/Technology and so thats why some things just seem NOT plausible.

A bit more Technology like the Earlier Concept work, then it is not so Silly to Consider he could have used Dr Shaw's Eggs and Engineer Sperm to Grow Humanoid Embryos for his Experiments.

The Dr Shaw we got, seemed to Indicate he had Studied her Internal Organs, maybe he could have USED her Reproductive Organs... but HOW would he Store those? (alas a Oversight).  Or/And he had Infected her with a Chest Buster but he had Extracted it from her for Study.

I think in Context to the OT.... there is a Period of Time that Transpired even if we only Speculate about what happened after the ARRIVAL... 

It seems Certain Dr Shaw had Survived for some Period of Time, Days, Weeks or Months?  I doubt Years...

So its a case of WHAT as far as a Story be it for a Movie, a Novel or Graphic Novel would be something that would HIT more as a Disturbing Plot...  a Disturbing Time for Dr Shaw and i think the Basis for that would be a Revelation of Broken Trust.... in that She starts to Believe David is Good, but then she makes a Terrifying Discovery....

Something that at THAT POINT... she then Realizes she should NEVER had put David back together and the Implications are NOW very Dire for Mankind!