Prometheus Revisited

I agree with much of what is said here. There are some themes in this movie, sacrifice being one, but to me, Prometheus is really an existential journey: Is there a God? Is there a purpose? Are we alone in the universe?

These questions are raised by Shaw, clinging on to her Christian faith symbolized by the cross. These questions are answered negatively by David: “There is nothing”. But Shaw isn’t really a believer, is she? She is more of an agnostic, perhaps, searching for the answers?

We, the audience, are no closer to the answers, are we? Well, we know that we are created by the Engineers (there is extraterrestrial life) and that they are no benevolent gods at all. But how did the Engineers come into existence? Is there only evolution or is there something else behind it all?

@BigDave

As you know I fundamentally disagree with you about this issue. It would help me if you could provide examples where Jon contradicted Damon or Ridley on the meaning of the film in 2012. Remember this is a thread about Prometheus 2012. I will happily consider your examples.

I went into Furious Gods expecting a ton of vagueness based on the internet "experts" and found one example where a production designer thought Fifield and Holloway were on the way to blowing up like the head whereas others focused on the Mutagenic nature of the gloop as an upgrade.

I find clarity where it was intended.

I find ambiguity where it was intended.

Of the big three Jon,Damon and Ridley I can find no contradictions in the final decisions for the movie and its a point that Damon made in autumn 2012 he said the three of them knew what Ridley was trying to do. By then there was a body of people on the internet that said it was a muddle. It was not it was a mix of clarity where intended and ambiguity where it was intended.

That is entirely different from where next. 

However I study human behaviour and what I see are a lot of people being dishonest with themselves. One simple example. The Space Jockey is an Engineer end of and instead of saying I am out of here they start using issues of scale and whether its a suit (those issues if one is interested are acknowledged and the reasoning explained, they are planned artistic licence). Anyone watching the film and the money shot when the Gantry appears should have no doubt whats being communicated. Then read seven hours of material and its stark raving obvious that is what was intended.

There is a ton of ill informed half baked stuff about what was in the film never mind what might come next and thats why, because I admire all the team who made this film, I will stand my ground when people complain its not clear what the core thread of the story is which I gave in my earlier post.

Do we know the relationship between the Moon and the Homeworld NO! Do we know exactly what caused the out break on the Moon NO! Do we know the relationship between the Pebble Ship and the Juggernauts NO! All that would have come next. 

@Chili.

Great post. What you are doing is separating out the emotional content of the character from the rules of the environment. The narrative and the story comes from the former and it is hardly ever discussed in fandom, its nearly all about the rules.

The central rule of the story is someone is responsible for the creation of worlds and life. Its not benign its not an accident it has intent. The little tiny bit we knew was a freaky looking character was carrying around some really nasty stuff which thematically dealt with non consensual parasitical reproduction which was highly unsympathetic and could be received as punishment.

Carrying on with the rules for a moment by the end of Prometheus we know this stuff is produced on an industrial scale by our creators.

Now we move to the story.

Elizabeth is our proxy. What answers are we looking for :-

1) Do we have a soul and where do we go when we die (the little girl who has lost her mother).

2) Are we alone. On the whole she believes we are not the movie dialogue about faith and the deleted scene about Africa. 

3) Why did they make us and why did they want to destroy us. 

There are lots of ways you can find the answers for her. It won't happen now the trail as they say has gone cold.

Back to the rules.

There has been an argument (Prometheus) and it turns out the guys who made us are on the wrong side and not doing well. (The Moon).

So and this is the 100,000,000 Fox question that they avoided by saying everyone wants the monster in. If these guys have rebelled and stolen something what does the other side of the argument look like. Once you decide that then you can give Elizabeth her answers.

Back to story

Noomi wanted to find her answers and have trouble with them.

Michael thought David was on a search for meaning.

They have form Damon said it really began in the infirmary when he admitted he was interrogating her dreams and of course he is responsible for her becoming pregnant.

So make some rules decide on the dynamic of E & D and get going.

Your destination has to flesh out what an intelligent creation looks like and decide whether being created by dark angels has consequences. For inspiration we have Dr Frankenstein and Sir Peter Weyland.

I hope that contributes a little more to your questions. The one that will never get answered is however you frame God who made that. But there is plenty to get our teeth into before we get there.  

@Chili

Just a quickie.

David offers two thoughts to Sir Peter.

He agrees with him there is nothing there for him "I know"

but then wishes him a safe journey.

That can have traction.  

Michelle

I think Sir Peter Weyland is perhaps interpreted as a too one-dimensional character - selfish (money, prolonging his own life). He is really interested in philosophical questions and has made important discoveries in medicine (curing cancer).

In Prometheus, Weyland himself says: “I have spent my entire lifetime contemplating the questions: Where do we come from? What is our purpose? What happens when we die?”

In Alien: Covenant, Weyland says to David: “I refuse to believe that mankind is a random byproduct of molecular circumstances. No more than the result of mere biological chance. No . . . there must be more. And you and I, son, we will find it”.

In this context, it makes sense that the dying Weyland in Prometheus disappointingly says “There is nothing” and David agrees: “I know”. When David wishes him “a good journey”, I wonder if he isn’t sarcastic or ironic (not loving his “father”). “The journey” is, of course, the death struggle.

"Prometheus is really an existential journey: Is there a God? Is there a purpose? Are we alone in the universe?"

Certainly the Purpose of the Movie was to indicate that the TWO Fundamental Beliefs that we have on Earth are neither Correct...  We are NOT a Product of a Accidental Event that then leads to a series of things being at the Right Place and Time to lead to Evolution, while also showing we are NOT created by Mythical Magical Gods but that we are the Product of the Donation/Sacrifice of Genetic Material from some Ancient Humanoids, who then further came back to Evolve us Technologically (Knowledge) and Genetically

So through Dr Shaw she is a Woman Brought up on Faith and so she is Searching for something MORE, likewise Weyland is to a degree too (he mainly just wants to  be Granted Extended Life) and so through Dr Shaw and the comment by Weyland the Movie was loosely asking "where are from" and "where do we go" when we DIE that is.  With Prometheus they had indicated the First One, but "where we go" was Never answered.

So Dr Shaw is making Discoveries that Contradict parts of her Faith, but she is still holding on to her Faith that there has to be more than what she Discovered, Questioning who Created the Engineers, and perhaps expecting surely there must be some Benevolent Creator above the Engineers.

Regarding the Weyland Death Scene.... it has a slight amount of Ambiguity for some, but it is more clearly saying that there is NOTHING for Weyland to gain for his Agenda of these Gods can Grant him more Life....

We then come to that Question.. Where do we go when we DIE?  Mr Weyland asked that in his Hologram Briefing....  and Weyland is NOW about to Die and he will SOON Discover if there is NOTHING! or if he will INDEED he will LIVE ON in a After Life.... this i feel is WHY it is that David said about the GOOD JOURNEY...

@Michelle

I know sometimes things can be hard to make out in my posts and people can get lost, sometimes i do too ;)

I was mainly agreeing with what you put, as far as looking at what the Commentary shows us, i think i need to Consider to what CONTEXT is this Topic... and to look at it as Watching the Movie and Commentary with your EYES CLOSED.... then Fundamentally certain things we dont get to see.....  I maybe JUMPED the Gun a little, as i have NOT seen the Commentary for a LONG Time and then i have only seen it Properly just Once, as far as Start to Finish.

so i think i have to Watch it Again then come back.....

As far as Contradictions i was talking only slightly, NOT that there is a Massive Shift.... the Bigger Shifts are from Concept Alien 01 The Master Narrative  to the Various Drafts... right to the Cutting Room Floor.

So in Context to the Topic... maybe its to discus the Theatrical Cut, and parts of the Furious Gods, Screen Writers Commentary and any Interviews only in Context to the Promoting of the Box Office Release and after and the Promoting of the DVD Release.

so i maybe should NOT be offering any comments UNTIL i have watched the Commentary again.

So from what i recall, the Furious Gods and Commentary was intending to Support the Movie by suggesting..

*Mankind is neither a Product of a Random Events or Evolution, or Creation by a Magical Godlike beings.

*The Engineers are a Ancient Humanoid Race who had played a Role in our Creation via Sacrificing one of their own so that their Sacrifice/DNA is what leads to our Creation or Evolution... regardless which way we look at it or where this Took Place, it was to show us that WITHOUT the Engineers Performing this Sacrifice then there would be NO Humans or at least other Complex Life.

*The Clues that Dr Shaw and Holloway had discovered are indications that Mankind was Pre-visited by beings from Space who are indicated to have Influenced our Evolution as far as Knowledge.   They had left Clues that the Scientists saw as a Map, that takes us to LV-223

*The discovery on LV-223 of these Humanoid Engineers that have a DNA match is to show us that we CAME from them.

*The Indication from what i recall was that the Engineers had become Disappointed with how we turned out, and they had began to Experiment with various things that related to the Black Goo, in order to go and USE this on us to EVOLVE us, see what happens to us.

This is one thing by Lindeloff, that RS contradicts a little by when he says they had Created a Specific Bio-Weapon to use on Unruly Creations who had got out of Control and that they use this to WIPE the Slate Clean...

I think i will come back to other stuff after i have Re-Watched the Commentary

A lot of stuff had no Answers, and was left Ambiguous, such as WHY we was created, and WHY we was to be Destroyed more so WHY we had been Created.  It depends with these who you Listen to as far as Writers or Ridley Scott  also Lindeloff makes it NO secret that he Avoids explaining things, sometimes this comes across as Lazy, but then as he says it leaves things open to discus and if you are more Direct and Spoon Feed stuff then when you go to make a Sequel you kind of have to Stick with what was said prior.

Surely i think they was on the Same Page of where they was going, what i was saying is that things CHANGE and Evolve, as they go along... they keep/change things from Jon Spaights work until Lindeloffs, then his work is changed a bit for Shooting then things are changed in the Edit Process.

But they all had the same idea of where they are Evolving the Process, and they had a Broad Strokes idea of where they are going Next....  which would have been to STEER away from ALIEN and go where Dr Shaw and David would go.....

Ridley Scott gave us some Clues to where it would go, and some would come back to some of the Questions that Dr Shaw had.....

Who Made Them?

Why they Created us?

Why they changed their Minds?

Is there a Creator above the Engineers, it seemed this was the Indication of WHERE they would go NEXT and then its a case of are THESE beings Benevolent and not like those Engineers... the indication would be that they WOULD NOT be...

so this is OFF TOPIC.. but i was to show that they had a Idea where roughly we would go NEXT... before the Process of this become something that they could not get a Working Draft they was pleased with between 2013-2014....... which brought us to the Changes in 2015 that became Alien Covenant.... which really brushed aside a lot of what a Prometheus 2 could have covered.

One Final thing, the Commentary does give us more indication of the Infection and in other Interviews indeed i recall it was suggested that Fifield would eventually had ended up like the Engineer Head, and that Holloway was going the same way (slower Rate).

Which if we consider that, then it would suggest the Black Goo was to Replicate the Pathogen in a Human Host but then would Destroy the Humanoids.... But other Life-Forms would instead Mutate into something ELSE.

A Confusion comes from the Movie is Ambiguous without the Commentary, and then you have to try and Consider what is going on, and then you could be drawn to looking at Previous concepts and Drafts for say Fifield which would give you a different indication of the Effects, than what the Commentary had suggested.

So i think in Context to the TOPIC its a case of these Writers are telling us what is going on with Certain Scenes that are more Ambiguous Visually.

I will add regarding the Engineer and Scale..... i was always one to accept the Space Jockey as a Engineer, the Flaw as Scale... by that i mean there is a Difference in Size which we have to put down to a Oversight!

The Intention was to have the Engineers as being TALLER... but for what ever reasons, at Shooting they decided to use 7ft+ Actors and hope that Camera Angles can make them appear Larger.

some Fans will use the Scale to Argue the Engineers certainly cant be the Space Jockey....  the Intention at Shooting is 8ft beings.... but they could have continued with the Space Jockey by simply showing that there could be TALLER Engineers..  Not EVERY Human is about 6ft, so if there are 7.5ft Humans then WHY NOT some 10ft Engineers? (same difference between 7.5ft Human to 6ft Human).

The other thing that could support the Size Difference, if we accept that Engineers are NOT all Uniform 8ft would be the Comment by Dallas.... it looks like it Grew Out of the Chair.... so that could explain the Space Jockey also growing a bit more.

So for me the Scale is NOT a massive Problem, for MANY it is...  When i discus the Scale it on the basis that this was INTENDED to be bigger, but what we got is NOT and that they could have used Special Effects but Ridley Scott had decided to NOT do and as i pointed out above, having 8ft Engineers should not really Conflict the differences.

Because Humans are not limited to 6ft, and so say just as a 7.5ft Human could Grow out the Chair, then Taller Engineers could become Larger likewise.

The contradiction between Damon and Ridley on the nature of the Mutagen. Wipeout/ start again or Evolve. 

In Damon's script

David says when he looks at the droplet.

"From here to the other side."

When he is discussing her pregnancy he says.

"You might want to consider this is not destruction it maybe creation"

Both of these were replaced by "in order to create first you must destroy."

The former belong to a Mutagen that alters the target (Hammerpedes,Fifield,Holloway) the latter destruction the exploding head but,

I think for the sake of drama Elizabeth saying the Juggernaut is bringing death is far more effective than saying mankind will be replaced. So at a communication level for a mass audience calling it death and destruction is more powerful but for everyone to end up halfway toward the Deacon like Fifield is effectively death. In terms of story it doesn't matter and it never happened but we can see with Fifield, the Deacon and Charlie, mankind's future, thats whats being communicated.

In my own work I retain the original phraseology because it has story telling value which plays into the crescendo of Jeopardy towards the end of Regained. I also share with the reader what is happening to Charlie, so the jeopardy of the Juggernaut arriving at earth is that much clearer.

However the exact nature of the Black gloop in the film is unimportant its obvious the outcomes are horrific which ever outcome and most importantly they tell us where the Xeno type outcomes originated from.   

On the question of the final height of the Space Jockey (which is all that matters) their are detailed scaled drawings  indicating the final size chosen of 8 feet shown in the FG documentary and in terms of discussing the film makers achievements that is all the matters even if there are sketches early on which indicate a taller being. It evolved to a fixed tradition.

Having gone through the Commentary  little bit again, what we have is the (mainly Lindeloff) referring to what the Sacrificial Scene was, because it had Evolved a bit from Concept, to Drafts, to Shooting to the Cutting Room to then Lindeloffs essential some what of a Lazy Get out Card approach... to certain Scenes as its FAR Easier than give any kind of Explanation.  its always Nice to see Spaights and Ridley Scott always try and give us a bit more though..

So if we take Lindeloff as the Final Say on the Matter, then it implies the Sacrificial Scene was the START of Life as we know it...   its a case of IF we take his word as the Word of YHWH in Biblical Accounts.

So what i am saying is there is Room to Elaborate on this, than to Purely Accept him as the Final Say.

The Sacrificial Scene had Evolved from Concept to End Product after the Cutting Room but it still remained pretty much the Same....  The Engineers perform such a Ritual to Seed DNA that then Forms a Massive Role in the Creation/Evolution of Life.

As stated by Spaights in the Commentary, his Sacrificial Scene was showing the Sacrifice Resulted in the Engineers DNA, being Infused with a Primitive Female to Create a Hybrid... the Sacrificial Scene thus acted as a Evolutionary Process.

12'000 Years BC this took place, but its indicated in Spaights work that Further Signs of our Genetic Evolution happened every 1100 Years.  So in Spaights work we have been Genetically Engineered about 12 Times since his Sacrificial Scene.

Ridley Scott had indicated after Prometheus that the Engineers would come back over Periods of Time to Genetically Evolve us.

If we consider Lindeloffs work...

His Sacrificial Scene we arrive at a World that has Plant Life, a World that is Primed and Ready for the Donation of Genetic Material.   The Scene goes on to suggest the Engineers Body that becomes Ashes, some of this Enters the Water and then it shows us a Fast Forwards...  to something coming out of the Water...

A Hand, Fingers, he indicates its hard to tell if its Human or Salamander....

The Exposition here is that the Sacrificial Scene certainly plays into the role of Evolution on a World... on Earth... if we ASSUME this Sacrificial Scene was the FIRST signs of Life, so that from that Scene it Directly leads to a Life-Form that comes from the Water....  well how UNLIKELY is this?

Not Unlikely if there is a Missing Time-Line... so the Engineers Sacrifice Eventually leads to this...

Concept work and Story Boards Elaborate more on this Scene, showing us a Flash Forwards through Evolution, and so indicating that without the ENGINEERS SACRIFICE there would have been NO LIFE as we know it....

If we look at Prometheus then the World is NOT a Baron Place, we are not seeing a World that has NO LIFE.... and i think we can come to Milburns comment on the Deleted Scene (Our First Alien)  about the Discovery of that Worm, where he says that Mankind has NOT yet discovered such Life on other Worlds beyond Microscopic and Bacterial...

so i think when we look at this as a whole.... it is likely the Engineers Sacrifice is what acts as the Catalyst to Spark the Evolution of Basic Life to more Complex.... so INDEED without the Sacrificial Rituals then such Worlds would NOT have Life thats Complex and thus as far as on Earth.... NO SACRIFICIAL SCENE and that means NO LIFE as we know it....

Lindeloff on the Commentary just seems like he is putting out Half Baked as Easy Explanations.... so he implies the Sacrificial Scene was HOW Life Began.. PEROID..

Which unless you look at that with Biblical Reading Tinted Glasses, we should know that for the World in Prometheus to look how it does, then Basic Life would have already had to have been on this Place...

which his Earlier Drafts seem to indicate, it just seemed he was not interested in giving any kind of Detail (as usual)....

However i think i recall a Interview where he mentions the Sacrificial Scene being what leads to Evolution of Life, i would have to try and dig that out....

What i am saying is not to Dish Dirt.... but that in that Moment on the Commentary he maybe Omitted to be as Specific on that Occasion...

I think Regardless.... the Overall Indication is that the Sacrificial Rituals are they way the Engineers would use their DNA/Genetic Material so that LIFE can either Form or Evolve due to this Event (Pathogen)

If we consider Spaights concepts, and Ridley Scotts comments he has made prior to 2013 then it seems the Engineers have performed this Sacrifice on other Worlds and even Over and Over on the same Worlds.... so we could Speculate that our Creation maybe has not come from ONE such Ritual but many of the Course of the Many Many Millions of Years of the Explosion of Evolution.

Just to quickly cover the Petri Dish Comment..

In a Nutshell this is merely to suggest that Creation, and what leads to US is not any Divine Process... it is just a Experiment that can be done by the Engineers due to their Tools and Knowledge... so there is NOTHING as Special or Important in the Creation of Life, as indicated from some Religions...

All the Engineers needed was the Sacrificial Tool and a Genetic Donation and then the Substance would do the Rest!

Again its not exactly indicated WHY.... it kind of is from Early Drafts and Concept of Idea, and slightly via Deleted Scenes...

To a degree its later indicated because they COULD! but there are other Reasons that could be at Play... i think looking at David as a Proxy could give us Insight.

If we Consider some of Spaights ideas... then to Place this as Basis a Explanation as Lindeloff has... we could Consider these Engineers are Millions of Years Old, they have Evolved themselves to a Certain Point..

They had achieved so much.... and thought maybe... OK.. so whats NEXT?  What can they do to SHOWCASE just how Advanced and Great they are... so its a Case of maybe Lets go and try and Create something from Scratch.

So when we look at Weyland he had done similar, he had made Great Technological Advances, a Pioneer in many Fields, people will Remember his Accomplishments.. so he would be thinking so WHATS NEXT?  And so the Creation of a Artificial Being in his Image who would ONE-DAY be almost Indistinguishable from a Human...  would MAKE it one of the Greatest Accomplishments of Mankind.

A Feat that would prove really how GREAT our Mr Weyland is....  as he claimed... "we are the Gods now"

But then there becomes more than Because he Could..

There are then Applications to his Creation, where he could then use his Creations as  a Tool, a Servant a Commodity, something to do Tasks so that We Dont Have to!  (The Alien Covenant Prologue gives us a bit more about David).  

But the point is that his Creation is something that Weyland decided to do, so that he could PROVE how Great that Weyland really could be... to Prove he could PLAY GOD... but then to Put his Creation to Certain Use!

We could Speculate had the Engineers then decided similar for us?

I think if we look at the Basic Explanation that Lindeloff had offered, then its kind of like the PLOT for  The Planet or the Apes Reboot!

Where Scientist Create a Drug that could Improve the Cognition of a Primate...  so its ONCE they have Evolved the Primates Brain, its a case of OK lets Test really how close this Enhanced Primate can become more Cognitive and to what LEVEL can this Improved Primate now Learn!

So with regards to the Engineers, it would be like... "so we have Proved we can Create/Evolve Life in our Own Image... lets see how FAR and Close this Creation can Learn from us"

The closer their Creation can Replicate the Achievements of the Engineers would be a sign of just HOW Great their Ability to Create is..

The same applies to Weyland with David, to take on him as his Personal Android, where he can Push the Boundaries of HOW LIFE LIKE can he make David... thus likely why he had more Free-Will and Emotional Capabilities as he was Weylands Test Subject to see just HOW CLOSE to a Human can Weylands Creation Become... making him more God-Like in the Process.

All at a HUBRIS! for all those Concerned... be it Create Mankind, Create Synthetics or Evolve Cognitive Ability of a Ape....

The reason for Engineers (as Mr Weyland) to move forward (knowledge) doesn’t have to be “The Petri Dish Argument”. The reason could be curiosity. Explorers have mapped down Earth and what's beneath it (the sea) and to some extent what’s above it (space). The reason might simply be curiosity? But, “curiosity killed the cat” . . .

@BigDave

For me this post "Sep-16-2019 5:09 PM" gets the numb of my frustration. 

We are not discussing the evolution of a scene we are discussing what the scene actually used means. 

The opening scene is intent on sending out one message. Evolution of the humanoid experience involved planned intervention through a ritual of sacrifice.

The attack and fragmentation on existing cells which reform in a much more graceful and more sophisticated way is a clear sign of upgrade.

I am not at home this week so I cannot replay the Scott or Lindelof/Spaiht's commentary, I recall Ridley saying it might be earth so it is about intervention in humankind's development. I am well aware of the journey to this final sequence but that is not important in describing whether Prometheus had a firm grip of what it is trying to say. By talking about all the various evolutionary elements merely clouds the issue here, which is the film vague? It is not in this scene, what lies behind it is for later but what it communicates is clear.  

Pietro Scalia offers his insights as to why the 8 Engineers are left out, for a long time they were in the cut, but they wanted to retain mystery and meet God in the second film.

Thats important in judging the reasoning for the cut was it because they wanted to avoid showing the quasi sacramental nature of the donation? There is no evidence to support that notion. Indeed none of the cuts made were excluded for reasons of content but pace, with the exception of the dialogue about the Engineers coming from Paradise. Pietro's Scalia offered his view is the idea was not carried through, Paradise could mean earth but in general the connection was not thought through. In understanding where they go next that might be important but I am unconvinced by Pietro's argument, the dialogue offered from the woken Engineer was cut and that is why you could not refer to it. But in the end going to meet God is important, whether you call it Paradise or not.

I promise to listen to the two commentaries next week and check if there are ambiguities across the three contributors.

@chili

When a micro biologist puts something in a petri dish he is curious to see what the outcome is. It's a form of experiment to see what you can grow. So curiosity is part of the reason you put something in a Petri Dish. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. 

David applies the same logic with his bottle of bubbles.           

"David turned the ampule on its length and the black cloudy substance lurking at the top of the ampule filtered down and merged with the Green Liquid. David snapped the end off the ampule and placed his right index finger on the opening he had created. He looked intently into the black droplet on the end of his finger. He had opened the lid of Pandora’s Pithos.

To him though it was a simply a moment of curiosity and he relied on his alter ego and Dryden’s words for the narrative.

 “Big Things Have Small Beginnings.”

He replaced the Cylinder and ........................

David knew the origins of the proverb, ‘Curiosity kills the cat.’ and its associations with one of those plays of Shakespeare kept in the Life Boat. However what had just happened was not “Much a Do About Nothing” it was quite the opposite it was about everything, and  it re opened the way to Pandemonium." 

Chapter 6 Connections. 

Your use of the phrase amused me.

@Michelle

I think there has been a little Misunderstanding regarding the Point i was trying to raise which can get clouded in the amount i write... so i will try and make a Nutshell Version.


Lindeloff seems to be indicating the Sacrificial Scene was likely on Earth and that this EVENT is what started LIFE... indicating the World Before was Life-Less...   

The Movie was showing this World would have HAD to have signs of Life, but then Lindeloffs Comment can be taken as GOSPEL if certainly some take the Notion the World is FLAT!

What i am saying is that we can look at his Comment and look at the Opening Scene and it appears this World would have had to Already have some Basic Form of Life....   so my point was in Regards to Lindeloffs Comment... and how the Movie is Slightly Contradicting if you look at it from WHAT state the World was in prior.. this is a Oversight maybe... or indeed it does not Effect Really the whole POINT of the Scene.

The Evolution i talk about is in Spaights Draft the Sacrificial Scene was to show this Event caused the Engineers DNA to be Merged with already Existing Life (Primordial Humanoid)..  Then i was also looking at Ridley Scotts comments which suggest the Engineers have done this over and over on  Worlds....

so all i was saying was that (Considering all and NOT just Lindeloff) the Sacrificial Scene was to show the Engineers Sacrifice was a Catalyst to Evolve Life to become Complex and so without that Sacrifice then there would likely be NO LIFE as we know it. (it was not to dispute or suggest others on here had NOT understand that was the point of the Scene)

In another Interview i think i recall Lindeloff suggesting a Process of Evolution but i cant quite recall when/where this was so i could be MISTAKEN...

I was pointing out that REGARDLESS... in what way or Version we look at, the Indication remains the SAME.... the Engineers use the Sacrificial Rituals to lead to a World to have LIFE as we know it.....

It is likely that World had Basic Life before that Scene, but we cant rule out of a similar EVENT had happened that provided the Basic Life....  Ridley Scott had proposed if the Engineers are the Forerunners of Mankind, then what makes it Possible for Worlds to Support Life in the First Place... where is the Big Guy.

So what this is saying is that Worlds get Terra-formed, they then have Water, and Basic Life which could be a Created Event.. then these Worlds are RIPE for the Donation of a Engineers DNA, and we Cant rule out if this Process is done over and over.

So all i am saying is we have to Consider what the Movie Shows, and what Ridley Scott, Lindeloff and Spaights say about the Scene  as a WHOLE (but in Context to the Final Cut) and to NOT just take One Persons Word for it....

So Regardless what the Scene shows is how you are saying, and thats EXACTLY how i see it too...  i was only merely adding that the Scene Visually did-not look like this World was LIFE-LESS and thats all i was saying in that Regards....

I was not intending for us to Consider other Deleted Scenes, which give us different reasons for Creation, such as Jon Spaights Alien 01 The Master Narrative to Deleted Dialog between the Elder Engineer and Sacrificial Engineer....

These are Deleted or Changed and so SHOULD NOT be considered as what is happening... Things Change.... i mean in 2012 there was not the Thought that David Created the Xenomorph, but that seems to be the Case Now... so then certain stuff we have to Throw Out and Not Considered....

I had understood the Reason for the Deletion of some Scenes are Pacing, for a Theatrical Cut the Company (FOX) would prefer something to be more to 2 Hours and so some things get CUT.

Ridley Scott had indicated the Elders Scene would have given a bit too much away, and so the removal of the Scene Creates a Sense of Mystery...... he also DID-NOT want to meet GOD in the First Movie as you pointed out....

Lindeloff just gives the Explanation about having the Engineers Talk would take away some Mystery and it would be more Mysterious if we dont get to see them Talk, as well they would not be Interested in Talking to us seems his insight into it....

I was not trying to cover any such Deleted Scenes... there are Other reasons some Scenes get CUT!  For example by Re-Shooting the Dr Shaw vs Engineer Scene, after Shooting the Scripted Version, means we see our Engineer Enter the Ship with Burns.. so they would then have had to Deleted Scenes prior from the point of the Engineer leaving the Juggernaut because it would contradict what the Shot that they decided to have would have shown  (Face Burn).

I think a lot of times i write too much and people can get lost in what i am writing and i struggle to keep things in a NUTSHELL

So i think often things are overlooked or misunderstood and i maybe end up Flooding the Site...

so i may Consider taking a Break from such Places until we get any News of any other Movie... as i Understand peoples Posts can get LOST among the Masses of Posts i make.... i just have a Great Interest into the Prequels and what Potential they had prior to 2015

so those last few Paragraphs are NOT Relevant to what i was pointing out... which was that INDEED... the Sacrificial Scene was to show that the Engineers are involved in the Creation and Evolution of Life on Worlds.

This requires a Sacrifice with the Sacrificial Mutagen to Spread their DNA... and so really its a case of NO SUCH EVENT... and its indicated that Worlds, well our World would NOT have Life as we know it.

"The reason might simply be curiosity?"

Certainly and that is what i was saying, "They had achieved so much.... and thought maybe... OK.. so whats NEXT?"

So it was a Curiosity, Science is based a lot on such, we Ponder...... what is this?, what if we do that?, what is there?

Curiosity is a Driving Force for sure...

With the Engineers they are so Advanced, we have to assume their Genetical Engineer Knowledge and Tools are so Advanced.... that they can take Curiosity to other Levels.

For Example... its likely we have Tried and Pondered with Curiosity if we can Inter-Bread or Genetically  Cross Breed Species.....  Can you MIX a Cat with a Dog?  I am sure this has been a Question and Attempted before.. to NO Success but the Curiosity would have been there...

But what if in Future then we Advance our Science were we Discover a Way to Create Such a Hybrid...  then if we allow our Curiosity to override our Moral Compass, then it would be a case of.... OK so what else can we now try and Cross-Breed.....

The Engineers who view themselves as Superior, maybe Gods would NOT have any such Moral Compass... and thats when indeed Curiosity could KILL the Cat!

So Curiosity, a sense of pushing Boundaries to what they could Create as a sign of Testing their Achievements and also perhaps being a bit Bored with what they are/have are Good reasons to go about and Create Something Else.

This is maybe similar to what Promotes David to do what he had done. (Alien Covenant) to a degree.

Curiosity is indeed part of the mythos. Pandora’s box is opened because of her curiosity and all the evils which befall men are let loose. But “hope” remains at the bottom of the box.

Shaw is perhaps the one who clings to faith and hope? But she is also driven by curiosity. She opens the box (awakens the Engineer) and lets loose mankind’s bane. :)

Certainly we have Dr Shaw and Holloways curiosity that leads them to Propose their Findings which Weyland then decided to Fund the Expedition....  Once they explore that Complex they In Effect Re-Open Pandora's Box ;)

The only HOPE she could be looking for, would be that there had to be someone IN CHARGE behind all of this, Creation and Attempt to Destroy us.

She could be HOPEFUL that they Changed their Mind some 2000 years ago, maybe she would be asking HOW-COME they never came back to Finish the Job?

So what i am saying is she maybe has HOPE that those above the Engineers or in Charge do-not or No-Longer have such Destructive Intentions for us...

It would have been Interesting to see her come Face to Face with such Beings through her Curiosity and Demands for Answers.... but ALAS we was Robed of that ;)

I do like so many of the Themes and Potential it had... i will have to Listen to the Full Commentary again as far as any Indications more on Motive about LV-223 and how the Prometheus Mythos could FIT... i am not sure it covers such though... i will have to Re-Watch it all again.

I think i can remember that Lindeloff just gave another Simple Because they Could Answer again...  "why was we created... because they could, why did they want to Destroy us, because they could/got bored"  Thats not a Direct Quote, thats just kinda what i Interpreted he was getting at...

As in (and i will have watch it again as been Years) they Created us for something to do, a Experiment, they got a bit Bored and wondered what Else they could Create, and they created some Horrid Stuff and decided lets use this on our Human Creations for Curiosity to see what Happens.

Again i Vaguely remember so bare with me ;) i could have Misinterpreted what i Vaguely remember ;)

I do Recall in Furious Gods it was a case of the Prometheus Crew where off to meet what the Writers Considered Prometheus... (Engineers)  I have always been Fascinated in how such Mythos could Tie in with the Engineers ;)

@BigDave

Thank you for your clarification. You obviously know me well enough to know I am not attention seeking and looking to pick an argument. I simply want to cut through this notion that is rife on the internet that Prometheus does not communicate. It is a curious thing that some find it vague and in coherent and yet it ends up the subject of doctorate thesis and theologians work and that is because, as you know, it works thematically and symbolically. It is obvious to me everyone on the ship with the exception of the grunts (Janek, Chance and Ravel) are deeply flawed and that is entirely right for a group of human beings who sign up for a mission without knowing what it is or do so searching hubristically for our makers. That Milburn a promiscuous homosexual flirts with the hammerpede and has oral sex seems entirely logical. That Fifield is a loud mouth pot smoker who runs at the first time of trouble and ends up being a fearless super human quasi morph is another interesting take but try to explain that to people who are not paying attention.

Equally in terms of the Prometheus narrative it is interesting that the perfect creation starts making mistakes, makes dangerous judgements and gets his head ripped off.

Communing with strangers on the internet is for mankind a relatively new way of exchanging. It shows how difficult and overwhelming it can be when you are talking to thousands of people at once and its very chaotic trying to cut through to the truth. I have absolutely no problem with people taking a different view to me but so much of what is said is ill informed, indeed incorrect and says more about peoples prejudices.

On Instagram the other day someone said how come The James Bond DB5 is in NO Time To Die. It was blown up in the last movie. I reminded them it was blown up in Skyfall and rebuilt by Q in Spectre and the two protagonists left at the end of the film in it. Response "I am entitled to my opinion."     

@BigDave

On the question of how much Prometheus the myth would be reflected in the subsequent movie. 

First of all it is a very layered tradition with many elements to it. The precise role of Prometheus his brother and Pandora shifts and changes over many centuries.

The way I extrapolated it going forward was based on three themes :-

1) Prometheus had stolen technology.

2) Zeus punished Prometheus in two ways.

a) The Liver extraction endless punishment.

b) Pandora as a bride of Prometheus Brother is provided with the Urn (which is full of ills) and they have a child Pyrrha who after the flood with her husband must repopulate earth. 

3) In one legend once the Urn is almost empty at the bottom is hope.

All of those elements are echoed through the Engineers their annihilation, Weyland the aspirational brother of the Engineers, the opening of the Cylinder and the woes it brings and whether children are born of Elizabeth to repopulate. Elizabeth has to decide whether those children represent hope. 

Outside of the pure Promethean myth is if an unauthorised biological and artificial construct turn up at the source of an Intelligent Creation, which by definition has gone wrong, what might they possibly contribute. Then of course you move to the Judo Christian riffing or my vision how the religions of the world echo a distant truth as we are not quite the full ticket.  

I do not think you ever want to read an "old book" and rewrite it slavishly but recognise the movements and thoughts that have gone into them and see whether that gives your story for David and Elizabeth a sense of authority.

That is why the movie is taken seriously because it is rooted in traditions. 

However what a story really needs is vigour and that must be self starting with its own unique energy.    

Fun to draw parallels . . . :)

The Classic Greek myth about Prometheus permeates the movie which also alludes to “the Modern Prometheus” (Frankenstein).

The themes of “creation” and "death" are essential in both of them. In the Prometheus myth, Pandora is created out of clay. She is the first mortal woman, that is doomed to die.

Both Mr Weyland and Victor Frankenstein are obsessed with conquering death (Frankenstein because of the tragic death of his mother).

Shaw is equally eager to find the answers behind life and death (because of her parents). Like Pandora, she is mortal - and too curious . . .

David is also a curious boy, "a very strange, enchanted boy", who notes that "the gods" (the Engineers) are "mortal after all" . . .

Thanks Michelle

Indeed its a shame that Prometheus has got some Flak from Fans, its certainly a Movie that the More you see it and overlook its Flaws, then you get to realize the Scope, the Thought Provoking Elements to the Movie.

Theatrically its a Movie that not many would Understand after First Viewing, there are Ambiguous Elements, but there is a lot of Clarity that some dont get.... Visually its a Wonder, its a Mystery Adventure more than any kind of Horror or Action that maybe some would have thought it would be about..... i feel a lot of Fans Expected it to be Very much a ALIEN Movie and so they tried HARD to see how it fits with ALIEN, and while there are Clues, it remained too Ambiguous in some Areas..

But having some things that are NOT Spoon Fed, does mean you can Speculate, you can Wonder, and it also means that any Sequels have the Option to Change things, were as if we had a SPOON FED Movie then a Continuation you have so Many things that would be Set in Stone that too Continue your kind of stuck on Rails rather than being Free.

Parts of the Commentary and Furious Gods, give us a Insight into what some of those who Worked on the Project intended or view the Movie to mean....

I think i was HARSH on Lindeloff, i think the way he just does not Elaborate on things, is to allow the Fans to Speculate a little...

I think Regardless of how we look at it there are some Basics at Play that i think should have been Pretty Clear to Viewers....

This is that without the Engineers Interaction with Mankind from not only the Sacrifice/Seeding, then WE would not be here, and also NOT have achieved what we had and maybe would still NOW be working with Stone Tools and Painting with Hands in a Cave.....

So Prometheus gave us that First Piece of Technology (Fire) as Weyland said in the TED TALK.... Prometheus as in those Engineers....

Regarding the Prometheus Link...

This is something that could play in a number of ways, certainly as it did with Frankenstein.  Its a Question of HOW really Literal are we talking?

It seems the NAME had came a while after the Majority of the Plot was in Place, so maybe it may-not bare too much of a Connection.

The Broad Strokes i guess should be to Consider that Prometheus was a kind of God, who had played a Role in the Creation of Mankind, and the Teaching of Knowledge to Mankind..... Until he had Given/Taught Mankind something the other Gods had NOT wanted us to Have/Know.....

And for this he was Punished...

In  the Mythos then indeed we have the Pandora and her Box as our Punishment for the whole Transgression against the Gods.... but its HOW Literal we look at this (Pandora).

So there is a lot of AMBIGUITY to how these could connect.... when they call the Engineers Prometheus, then do we have to LOOK at it as they Created us, by Order or Acknowledgement of their Hierarchy.

Then its a case of their Visitations or Further Genetic Enhancements to Mankind, are these something the Hierarchy had Permitted... or ONLY to a certain Degree.

Had their been some Tampering with us Genetically, or/and Certain Knowledge that was Taught that those who DID this to us, had done so AGAINST the other Would Be Gods wishes?

I think when Ridley Scott also alludes to Paradise Lost, i do often see Parallels between Lucifer and Prometheus.  So i always felt even if Loosely how these Connect would be Interesting, especially going forwards with any Sequel.

When looking at Prometheus and the Mythos i have always seen a Familiarity between these.