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New alien civilization

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shambs

Nov-04-2014 1:43 PM

Hey folks, I come here to discuss a topic that I find interesting, a topic about the original Space Jockey story, Giger's visión about LV-426 and some enigmatic structures in the landscape of the aforementioned planetoid.

The reasons for my interest? Well, basically Prometheus is made of some old ideas (Dan O'Bannon and Ron Cobb) and I was thinking that history could repeat itself. Specifically I'm talking about a new alien race in Paradise. But anyway this is not something entirely new, as one might suppose:

Dan O'Bannon's Original Alien

Going back to the early development of Alien, originally was supposed that the Space Jockey was an unfortunate traveler (as in the case of the crew of the Nostromo), who had found a pyramid built by another Alien civilization; intelligent creatures that lived in LV-426 million years ago. In this story, these alien beings have a complicated reproductive cycle; through a complex bloody birth ritual: The alien race had two sexes of their own, but needed a third host animal to reproduce. They would bring in an animal, put it on a plinth with a spore and suddenly the creature we come to know as the facehugger comes out to deposit its seed within the animal. They would lead the inseminated creature to an enclosure where it would await the birth.

O'Bannon's quote (second source):"I saw the inhabitants of the planet as tough and primitive, and with an extremely complicated sexual cycle. Reproduction was very difficult for them and had therefore become central to their religion. And this pyramid was an temple to reproduction. When the astronauts came upon this crumbling structure covered with ugly angular carvings, they begin to realize that they are in the presence of real antiquity. They're unable to find an entrance at the base, so they scale the pyramid and discover at the top a flue that goes straight down from the peak. This is where the character Kane sets up his tripod and winch and lowered himself down - way below ground level - to the floor of this chamber. Using his suit lights, he looks around in the darkness and in the middle of the room finds a stone plinth with blood drains in it. all over the walls are alien hieroglyphs. Also in there centrally located are these eggs - spores really. So these beings had two sexes of their own, but they needed a third host animal to reproduce. So they'd bring in an animal , put it on a plinth with a spore, and whammo! Then they'd lead the inseminated animal off to an enclosure somewhere to await the birth. But the planetoid was now dead and this civilisation had been gone for a million years. All that remained of it was this pyramid and these spores - which can survive dormant for incredible lengths of time even under the most adverse conditions. That's what I originally saw. And since I made it up, naturally I'm going to like it better: but to me that's a lot more sinister sequence of events and a lot more ingenious than blurring the two cultures together."

In these early ideas, we have another civilization apart from the Space Jockey race and a bizarre use for this life forms that we usually call Xenomorphs.

Source 1

Source 2

Giger's idea about a biomechanic landscape

Giger's quote (second source): "I don't appreciate that kind of science fiction where every element is invented. That's why I wanted the landscape to be biomechanic, a mixture of technology and some kind of magma, so as to create the feeling that maybe something has happened on that planet, maybe a technical civilisation has been destroyed. Unfortunately, as most of the landscape footage has been cut by Ridley Scott, I doubt whether all that can be felt any more".

According to this, Giger designed a landscape for the planetoid to be biomechanic, as a Mixture of technology and some kind of magma, so as to create the feeling That maybe a technical civilization Existed That Once Had Been there destroyed.

Grotesque rock formations in Alien

This unused concept art seems to fit perfectly with the Giger's words about the landscape of LV-426. 

There you can see these strange formations, structures that appear to be the skeletal remains of two alien creatures.

A more detailed picture

Source 3

So, considering all of the above, Paradise could be a post-apocalyptic world, not so different of LV-426 (and maybe there are some clues for the role of the xenomorphs in the Engineers society). Ok, maybe we will see more buildings and stuff like that, but these structures could be the ashes of some extinct civilization. The question is: Whose are these ashes? of Elders? or someone else?

So what are your thoughts about this? Do you think they could use some of these old ideas in Paradise? or something completely different?

PS: Special thanks to AVPGalaxy user @wmmvrrvrrmm, for his wonderful blog.

23 Responses to New alien civilization

BigDave

Nov-04-2014 3:18 PM

I can see where you are going in that some bizare Ancient Alien Race on some World that looks like Gigers Work.... only problem with this is the Engineers especially in the Start of the movie and Sacrificial Scene did not look Bio-Mech like Gigers work, and they are intended to had taught us stuff and upgraded us, so why do we not possess buildings and materials that are Giger Matter...?

Then we have the 2 sexes than can not procreate, but why use spores if the spores/eggs produce a offspring connected to those Aliens, then how does that fit in with their reproductive cycle as well we see the Spores/Eggs ideas both as far as Starbeast and Alien just reproduce itself in a cycle that repeats..

Unless the produce of this cycle the adult lifeform that then morphes victims to become Spores/eggs is actually needed by these Organisms that have trouble re-producing as a 3rd part of their puzzle... we have not seen any of these Ancient Race, they died off and all that was left was the Spores/Eggs the Space Jockey came across.

The above going along the lines that our Space Jockeys are merely victims just as the crew of the Nostramo was...

When Alien was finished this seemed to change some what and now its that these Space Jockeys was carrying a Bio Weapon of kinds, we did not know where the Weapon came from, did they create it? come across it? or create it from something they came across.

Prometheus tried to give some clues, they showed us our Space Jockeys created many life forms and experimented on many and they had some substance that could be used to break down and seed life via transforming it into a new substance that acts as a evolutionary accelerant rabidly abble to spread the DNA of the Organism that was broken down into this material.

So i am not sure how the ideas we got now, can merge with the old... ok maybe the Engineers could be some Bio-Mech Giger Matter Culture, but then how come Mankind built stone temples etc.... if we was taught by the Engineers.

Only way is maybe and we have to tie in to religon and cultures on Earth i.e Star Maps aka Ancient Aliens, and these all lead us to maybe the Summerian Mythos..... this tale tells of a race of God Like beings who minned Earth but they rebelled so the higher Gods created Mankind to perform the work instead...

Maybe this could mix into the concept....

Maybe the Engineers was thus a slave race to something else who had to perform certain tasks and was part of the Ancient Alien beings reproductive cycle.... the Engineers was the Sacrifices....

Maybe they set out to create mankind to become their replacement sacrifices.. but then thats a long period of time from the seeding of Earth with the Sacrificial Scene until point that Mankind had rised from the process of Evolution.

Its very complicated to how this all fits in and well there is many many possible ways to explore the connections.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-04-2014 3:31 PM

"I saw the inhabitants of the planet as tough and primitive, and with an extremely complicated sexual cycle. Reproduction was very difficult for them and had therefore become central to their religion. And this pyramid was an temple to reproduction."

 

If i take this as in context that it was part of Star Beast and Alien that Evolved to something different i.e there was no Pyramid, and the Space Jockey Ship was carrying a Cargo before it crashed on LV 426. This is how the franchise Evolved and moved onto Prometheus.

Where now we see a temple used.... if we try and connect Prometheus to the unused stuff from O'Bannons idea, then we could maybe go the route that these Engineers was the ones who could not reproduce well, and the Goo was what allowed them to seed their DNA.

The result was not mankind, because the Sacrificial Scene was many many Millions of years ago, so we have to assume that futher experiments was used to evolve us, and thus maybe the Engineers took back life from Earth to Evolve on LV 223, so LV 223 was kind of like a Nursery and Earth a Garden, and so they would test and try and create/evolve organisms on LV 223 and when they had achieved desired results they planted them back on Earth.

This is maybe why LV 223 was Tera-formed to allow life on Earth to breath within the Temple Mound etc.

How does the Xeno fit in mind?...

Maybe as the Space Jockey evolved to become our Engineers who now shown as the creators of Mankind and many other things and maybe if as above the Engineers are now representing the Ancient Alien Race who could not reproduce well and thus created Temples and the Spores to somehow fit in with a reproductive cycle.. thus Spores become the Goo...

If that is who the Engineers/Space Jockeys now are and  thus not a race who stubbled upon the Temple by mistake as the O'Bannons original idea had, then what of the Xeno..

Maybe the stumble upon the Spores part could be changed to Eggs, and maybe they could go the route that these Engineers who are now to represent the Alien civilization who built the Temple in O'Bannons concept......  but then also have them also be the race who stumbled upon the Xeno as in that draft too.

By that simply have it that this Alien civilization, at some point on their journeys they encounted a race or Eggs on another World, and they got infected with the Organism, and this Alien civilization or a branch of them saw the offspring of this unholy birth, and they wondered over it and then they began experimenting on the Organism they found and tried to incorpirate its DNA into theirs but this ultimately got them burnt.

This is kind of the path that the franchise takes me down..

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-04-2014 3:39 PM

As far as Gigers idea..... well we only need to see the ideas in the Prometheus Fire and Stone Comic to try make some sense, you see we are led to that the Goo breaks down lifeforms, and produces a new substance that contains the DNA of the broken down life sourse, and acts as a accelerant and mutagen able to infect and pass on the DNA of the Organism whos DNA is contained in this Mutagen onto other life and creates a Hybrid, passing on traits from the Organism stored in the Substance onto the Organic life it comes into contact with while evolving the best traits of that said Organism.

We are shown in the comic that somehow a Jungle has grown over LV 223, maybe some of the Goo came into contact with some plant life and this then broke down and then reformed to expand over a greater area.

Thus maybe if these Engineers mixed their Goo with something related to the Xeno, maybe a outbreak of some kind where a Xeno DNA Goo, made from broken down Xenos was to escape across the landscape it could evolve the landscape to then contain Bio-Mech Giger Look that could be taken from the Xeno DNA.

This assumes the Giger Bio-Tech comes from the Xeno and something the Engineers reverse Engineered from the Xeno DNA.... But then again the Bio-Tech could had predated our Engineers?

Who knows i only draw that conclusion due to how the Sacrificial Engineers and Seeding Ship seemed to lack that Bio-Tech of the LV 223 Engineers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Anunnaki50

Nov-04-2014 11:21 PM

I think because it was millions of years ago they "programmed" the goo to eventually take their DNA to evolve into mankind from their particular dominate genes. I believe the black goo breaks down their DNA to a level where it reverses the organisms evolution back to the beginning and has to re-start and evolve on that planet with that particular environment to be the species that it is today. So, basically the genetic molecular structures ATCG re-forms itself while being coated with the black organic goo. From that the first single celled organisms emerged and then followed by more advanced multi-cellular creatures like fish, then walking fish also called Tiktaalik, amphibians, reptiles, birds, proto-mammals, and mammals to humans. I am only bringing up those animal kingdoms because crustaceans, insects, mollusks, corals, monicians, jelly-fish, anemonae, and others are a different branch of the evolutionary tree. I also believe that its possible that they only seed certain animal kingdoms on certain worlds depending on what they need to accomplish later on for short term or long term to leave alone and put all kinds of animal life and DNA to make a planet like another Earth-like world.

The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno

shambs

Nov-05-2014 4:21 PM

Engineers can be dark angels that after a war, crushed another civilization. Maybe in Paradise there will be a world that used to be inhabited by this other civilization. That's what I meant by Giger's ideas on LV-426; not necessarily in relation to the Giger Matter, but rather in relation to the idea of ​​a civilization that was crushed by something or someone. The attackers could be the dark angels or even the opposite: Paradise is the world of Engineers and they were punished by God.

shambs

Nov-05-2014 4:40 PM

With respect to Xenomorph; I just want to believe that this creature has an important meaning for Engineers, I don't think they are just biological weapons (although I could be wrong). There may be a religious meaning, who knows.


Anyway Prometheus does not claim that the engineers created the xenomorphs. Perhaps the black goo is a genetic engineering tool that extracts DNA from and infected life form, then create something based on that original life form. 

The xenomorph may be an ancient life form that Engineers found in the dark corners of the universe.. So they decided to create their own versions (the Deacon).

On the other hand, these creatures could be a result of genetic engineering. But I'm not sure if the Engineers are the creators of such monsters.

BigDave

Nov-05-2014 4:48 PM

@Anunnaki50

Well we see this scene the planet has life on it as far as some vegetation this would show that if this was Earth, which it does not have to had been. Then this is not the start of life, because basic life would had been on that world, what this seems to show is that the movie is going the route that the Engineers Sacrifice with the Sacrificial Substance breaks down his DNA this is carried within a new substance that then acts as a accelerant and passes the Engineers DNA onto life it comes into contact with thus was the spark needed to evolve basic lifeforms into more complex.. or it could show us that this substance that the broken down Engineers becomes then re-forms to form the basic life that evolves to complex life at a latter point.

I would say the Engineers then take some of the created life and futher experiment with it on LV 223 and then when satisfied they seed it back onto Earth.

Basically playing their hand in what we deemed as natural selection.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-05-2014 5:01 PM

@shambs

 

I see the point your making is that O'Bannons draft had a Ancient Race who built Temples and somehow created these Spores to help for some reason their lack of ability to procreate well... But by the time the vistiting Alien Races (Space Jockey/Humans) from Star Beast draft, had came across this world it had become a baron place... only a temple and the Spores remained but the civilization who built the Temple are all but gone with no signs of where or how or why.

So you propose maybe that concept could be used for Paradise, as well on LV 223 while being similar to Star Beast as far as Temple, Murals, nothing much left of the civilization that built the Temple, there was actually a survivor.

There are a lot of questions as far as how far is Prometheus borrowing off the unused Star Beast Concepts... Starbeast had hinted as you posted at Ancient Race with two sexes that needed the spores to reproduce but whats confusing is O'Bannon refers to the need for a 3rd as Host and we take that as any Organism would do, be that Humans or the Giant Race who found the Temple before the Humans and set off a SOS Warning on their Derelict craft.

But if all these Spores do is just enter a continuious cycle of Spore=Face Huger=Chest Buster=Adult= Use Host for more Spores, how and where does the other Race with Two Sexes come into this..?

Not sure what route Prometheus is going but Ridley has hinted in a way that their could be some other being/race that is above the Engineers in the hierarchy and thus our Engineers are merly slaves to their Agenda or Vessals for their reproduction.   Or indeed the Engineers and Elders are the higher race?

We just dont know yet and they could go many routes with this.. it would be interesting to say the least.... but i bank on their being something else higher up than the Elders and Engineers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-05-2014 5:09 PM

The Alien Mural that was unused is interesting, there was another version of this where the Space Jockeys was unmasked and Bald Humanoid beings, much like the Engineers on LV223 and suprising that back in 1978 the concepts of the race that Sacrificed their own kind to allow the Xeno to procreate actually looked like the LV 223 Engineers.

Gigers vision and ideas for the Derelict also was kind of bizare and not like what O'Bannons ideas was, or what we ended up with.

Giger had visualized that the Derelict craft actually produced the Eggs, the ship was well living organism to some degree, he designed the inside of the Egg Chamber to have on its walls what looked like Giant Pregnant Bellies that created the Eggs.

When you look at the Alien Mural we see a shape similar to the Derelict, that looks like its made of a Xeno, maybe this is to show it has Xeno DNA... we see from this odd shape Xeno thingy thats in same shape as the Derelict a small like worm or sperm like thing is comming out of what looks to be a eye in the middle, and actually this is like the scene of Holloway and the Parasite in his eye that seemed to not have no real connection to what was going on.

Anyway this worm/sperm or what ever then evolves into the Egg, the Egg is then placed near a prone Sacrifice and opened up and the Sacrifical being infected with the Face Huger and then we get the Chest Buster at the bottom.

I think this shows Gigers idea was that the Ships created the Bio Weapon, but needed the Space Jockey to act as Host...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

shambs

Nov-05-2014 5:22 PM

Good theory @ Anunnaki50, and somehow the Black Goo is a work of intelligent design and partly terraforming tool.

shambs

Nov-05-2014 5:27 PM

Well I think the engineers were manipulating man's evolution. That might explain the visits to ancient civilizations, and partly perhaps they were something like the Watchers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watcher_%28angel%29

shambs

Nov-05-2014 5:33 PM

@Big Dave, you said in other threads that Elder Engineers were cut from Prometheus to be redesigned for then including them in Paradise. Maybe they are the race that is above these dark Engineers.

BigDave

Nov-05-2014 5:45 PM

@shambs

You raise a interesting point and same as i came to the conclusion, but there are elements to the movie that contradict this.. as well ts got lots of ambiguity and contridictions.

So if we forget Alien and Aliens they never happened... as Prometheus is the prequel so lets go that route for now.... and see if we never saw Alien or Aliens but watched Prometheus over and over what do we see.. and if we take all Ridleys comments...

We see these Engineers seed worlds, by seeding them like the Sacrifical Scene the result is not instant Humans, not like Spaights draft where the World had Primates and the Engineers DNA via (nano Scarabs not Goo but same purpose) infused with the Primates to set off evolution to them to produce our early ancestors like LUCY

But Prometheus seems to had gone the longer route to actually show the Sacrificial Scene was actually either the creation via the Sacrifice of first basic lifeforms on Earth like Bacteria, but due to the World having vegetation maybe it shows Basic Life got the spark to kick start it to evolve into complex life thanks to the seeding of the Engineer DNA and the DNA/Accelerant Cocktail that was produced from the Sacrifice.

We are shown the Engineers must have visited us over and over, and taught us (as how else could David had learned a Lanquage the Engineers could speak?). Ridley said these Engineers had visited us over and over and plaid a part in our technological advancements but also genetic evolution, that tells us they may have came back and re-experimented over and over untill they got to the result that they wanted.

Maybe LV 223 was a Nursery where they watch over the Garden from and where they experiment and nurture new life forms before planting them back into the Garden. This would explain the Breathable Atmosphere in the Temple and Ships and maybe also the Star Maps.

The Prometheus Fire and Stone and Predators especially shows us a 4 armed race that the Predators hunt on a different world and a Predator comes across this races ancient cave paintings that are near the same as the one found in the Isle of Skye in Prometheus.

This while we cant say is Canon, the team collaborated with Ridley and Fox and so they was given the Green Light to sugest the Engineers had created more Races than just Mankind, and this goes with Ridleys comments that the Sacrifical Scene does not have to be Earth.

So our Engineers create many kinds of life on many worlds, Why?  Why all these different kinds of life, maybe they just like creating new Life and they experiment on that life in the persuit of creating something Perfect!

We see no Bio-Tech in the Sacrifical Scene, we see no evidence directly of Xeno DNA on Earth only a match to Engineers, yet LV 223 Urns and Goo contain Xeno DNA to a degree.

The Mural shows us a Deacon yet not, it has Easter Eggs in that it has the two other alternative Face Huger designs from Gigers Concept for Alien, where he created 3 different designs, one of them was the Face Huger we came to know, the other two, well they are on the Mural.

We then have to look at why the place seemed a place of Worship to the Mural, yet also to a Engineer Head...  to me as i have said before the Mural shows a Xeno type Organism that is in Cruciform pose, same pose the Sacrifical Engineer took in Spaights draft, the Cruciform pose related to Christ is not to represent Jesus, but its to show us the SACRIFICE Jesus made on the Cross.

The Alternative Altar Shot had the Sacrifical Bowl and not a Green Crystal, could it be that a Organism related to the Xeno was Sacrificed via the same way as the Sacrifcial Engineer, but the resulting Cocktail is drained into a Vat that fills up those Urns, as opposed to diluting into the Water Fall as with the Engineers?

Thats why they contain Xeno DNA to a degree...

You see our Engineers like to create, experiment and tinker with life, maybe they are like the BORG of Star Trek, maybe they borrow Genetic Material from other Worlds.

Maybe at one point they came across a Life Form or something and borrowed from that for their Bio-Tech and a off shoot Accident created the Face Huger or related Ancestor, or they came across some Ancestor to the Face Huger/Xeno and borrowed the Bio-Tech of that.

What if they then saw on of their own Face Hugged and then produced a Chest Buster, for a Race that may not have or have lost the ability to reproduce like us, i.e a Fetus in the Womb that is then Birthed into a Baby....

Would not getting a Embryo of the Xeno or related Organism growing inside and then Chest Busting not be considered a kind of Pregnancy for these Engineers.

Maybe they was in awe and suprised by what they saw, they saw it as some if not somewhat sadistic and brutal way for them to conceave and create life from within.

The resulting Organism could be something they admire, and maybe it produced the First Deacon, or after a number of experiements they produced the Deacon in the Mural.

A Organism they considered PERFECT... so Perfect that they saw this Deacons DNA as being the key and way forward as far as seeding material as opposed to their own DNA.

So they worshiped and honoured the Deacons DNA over their own as being more Perfect?

Maybe this is what the intention is then for, to then upgrade our DNA to the Deacons... sometimes to create one must first destroy...

Sorry if thats gone a bit off topic but yeah, thats one of my explanations that seems to fit in with it all....

Now if we add Alien etc after that, it makes some sense...

But the above could be totally wrong especially if Paradise as the OT shows, is a World with a very Giger Feel to it, but then again maybe they took the Material and Experiments on some Lifeform they found too far and it resulted in a twisted world, where the World had become overan with Giger DNA Matter.

Saying that Ridley said that David was bringing Hell with him and pondered what would happen if the Cargo was turned on God, or a Machine... we have to ask if the Engineers Homeworld is very Gigerish, or the Gods are well what the Goo comes from then what purpose would infecting them with it have?

Maybe thus the Giger Matter and Xeno is a experiment and finding that a fraction of Engineers had came across, and not what the Homeworld has witnessed, unless its near ruin from a War...

Ridley had said the beings that are found are far from Benevolent... even refering the God to Devil, and the Engineers to Dark Angels, which must mean they are a rebelious faction... or could be to sugest if not that their intentions are purely Evil.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-05-2014 5:56 PM

Yes the Elders was cut and Ridley made two comments in diferent interviews regarding their cutting...

1) He said he did not want to meet God in the First Movie, this implies maybe these Elders was God, as in Titans, thus Engineers Olympians or Annunaki/Igigi or Bible/Koran God/Angels.

Thus the Engineers are not God....

2) He stated that they was not pleased at the overall appearence of the Elders and they never looked Godlike but frail... maybe he means they never looked as impressive as the Statues of the Ancient Gods like Titans etc.

Ridley then went on record after to futher his not meeting God, and said that Shaw and David will find God or Gods but they will not be God in the traditional sense, and thus these Godlike beings will not be Gods, and that these beings are also not Benevolent.

Prometheus left some people disapointed as far as Scale goes, i mean the Engineers was intended to be 15ft tall, in the drafts and concepts, this was revised to 10ft for the movie but sadly they could not get the scale right (could have if used LOTR trickey).

So sadly we ant fooled to the size of our Engineers in Prometheus and the Space Jockey..

Sure Ridley would have taken onboard these comments, and thus we cant rule out them redesign the Elders to be a Larger Version of the Engineers, or indeed give us taller Engineers in Part 2.

I think for certain this is what the intention is.

1) The Elders and Engineers are the same, but Ridley may do away with them becoming frail and old looking like we do when we age.

2) The Elders are a different race slightly and created the Engineers in their image, and thus a redesign could be on cards for the Elders in appearence and Height.

3) The Elders may be scrapped so all we have is Engineers and something else to be created as above the hierarchy of the Engineers and this Race may or may not look Humanoid they could be completely Alien.

Or is God a Machine...?  Ridley did say what if Goo, infects God or a Machine? unless the Machine is to mean David?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

shambs

Nov-05-2014 5:58 PM

About the grotesque, monstrous biomechanical surrealism God;  well, I see it as unlikely. This is another "I want to believe" in my part lol.

The Giger matter is totally absent in Prometheus. The disc-shaped craft looked completely mechanical and sterile, and the same happened with Juggernaut. Yes, there were some strange shapes similar to a spine in the hallways, but that's what Ridley called "Gigeresque".

The participation of Giger was very little in the process of development of Prometheus, and now that He has passed away, I have many doubts that we can see something biomechanical in Paradise.

Probably the architecture of Engineers is something completely different (in relation to biomechanical). Or perhaps their buildings are like a cross between the ancient civilizations of Earth and Gothic art. It's the only thing that comes to my head right now.

About the original Space Jockey, well, I think it was a beautiful and inspiring thing, something we will never see again. That was the starting point, Now we must move on.

shambs

Nov-05-2014 6:34 PM

Well your thoughts on the Xeno-Deacon fit with the concept of the perfect organism. The crucified position can be a symbol of the fate that awaits humanity for our crime against Jesus.

Maybe the Engineers, as you raise have created other civilizations in search of perfection, and humanity was another of their many projects. (or perhaps their last attempt before finding the prime Xenomorph, and therefore change their minds)

shambs

Nov-05-2014 7:29 PM

"David was bringing Hell with him" Yes! those words are very interesting, especially the part of the Black Goo making contact with "God" or David himself.

BigDave

Nov-06-2014 1:54 PM

Ridley did say that the Juggernaughts was brand new condition, and the Derelict was in a state of decay, if they do have a element of Bio-Tech in that they are living in a degree, like a Cactus is or a Tree, then yes maybe a Juggernaught that is crashed and dead, will start to decay and change shape slightly.

So i do think there is a element of Bio-Tech to the Engineers, just not as Gigeresque as some of Gigers work or the Xeno.... why/how who knows, either the Engineers Tech came from something related to the Xeno, or the Xeno or something related to it came from the Engineers Tech.

But the Engineers seemed to lack this look at the start of the movie, and the Ancient Man Interactions from Cave Paintings and other archaeological finds i.e temples on Earth also seem to lack that Gigeresque look.

As far as never seeing the Space Jockey again as far as well Engineers and their Suits, who can be sure, we do not know if Paradise has Engineers in such ships or atire.... and also we can not rule out that Ridley could be going the route of some other kind of being on Paradise, that could resemble the Space Jockey we just cant be sure.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-06-2014 2:14 PM

"before finding the prime Xenomorph"

 

Not sure, i think the Deacon in the Mural was the Perfection they had achieved, but this could be due to a encounter by Face Huger and Engineer and produced a off spring that the Engineers then attempted to re-engineer and try various experiments until the result was the Deacon, just as in another thread about the Scientists in AR, cloning Ripley and failed 6 times, got it near right 7th and then got it perfect on the 8th and thus Ripley 8, looking at the other clones some you can see relation more to the Xeno DNA.

Maybe the Engineers started to experiement with the result of a Face Huger and Engineer and they then did many experiments until the result was more closer to the Deacon in the Mural than a Xeno Face Huger plus Engineer.

But as with most things in the movie there are a number of things that go against this concept... thus you can not really find a solid be all that ends up explanation.

But as far as Paradise well Ridley said the movie will be going futher away from Alien, and by that he cant mean Alien movie but the Franchise, so he dont mean like Humans and Weyland, or the Space Jockey/Engineer he must mean the Xeno as in the Traditional Egg and Face Huger that was found on LV 426.

But how far are they going to distance themselves, well Prometheus already started that, Spaights draft had a lot of Xeno DNA, the early Prometheus drafts and concepts also did even Lindeloffs, as far as concept and what i mean was various designs for the Deacon and Fifield some was very much Xeno related..

What we ended up with was tonned down Alien Xeno DNA, the Hammerpedes and Deacon at the end being the most DNA link as opposed to Fifield...

So if Prometheus was tonned down to distance itself from Alien Franchise and in Paradise they wish to futher distance themselves i am not sure we would see anything on Paradise that is related to the Xeno, if we do it would be at best as close as the Hammerpedes and Deacon at the end of the movie....

If no Xeno DNA a all, if the World has a hint of Giger look to it, it wont be Xeno as such, maybe we could see something more like Sil from Species..  or maybe they have in their Architecture could be like the Juggernaughts and LV 223 Engineers, and the Temple Walls..

i.e

So having the look of the Engineers control panel in Prometheus..

This could then lead to the Xeno was a creation of somehow a mixing of Engineers Bio-Tech with some Organism they found maybe like the description in Star Beast so very Lovecraftian and the mixture of this Organism that is very Love Craft inspired and Engineers Bio Tech resulted in the Xeno... which they then carried out experiments upon.

Because if their Tech came from the Xeno and they want to distance themselves from it, then maybe that means Paradise would have to lack any Giger/Xeno look.

Then they could just mean they want to distance themselves from anything that looks like the Xeno and Eggs, and thus the Hammerpedes do not fit this so Organisms like that could be seen...

Whats for sure is David is carrying a Engineer Bio-Weapon Cargo Ship with its Cargo and if the Cargo is Urns containing Goo maybe its the same as the stuff in the temple we saw on LV 223 (i.e Xeno DNA) then there would be no escaping some connection to Alien as far as DNA if David intends to use it on the Engineers/Gods or himself.

But then it could contain a different kind of DNA... i,e what if each Temple contained different DNA experiments.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Anunnaki50

Nov-10-2014 1:53 AM

These are all fantastic and great theories it makes me think about Prometheus 2 alot more now. As always BigDave you never cease to amze me when it comes to this franchise and intelligent speculation about this awesome species that somehow found and "engineered" the black goo. 

The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno

Anunnaki50

Nov-10-2014 1:56 AM

Im hoping he'll show the Engineers in their suits walking around and doing important tasks like arming a Juggernaut.

The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno

BigDave

Nov-10-2014 4:38 PM

I would maybe even wonder if they would know what a Jugernaught looks like, or maybe they do but had suffered some kind off attack from one in some Engineer War.

You see my thinking regarding this is if the Engineer Civilization is not in some kind of destruction and so are doing quite well, surely if they know what the Juggernaught Ships are for and indeed what if they are aware of LV 223, and experiments and maybe failings.

Well basically what i am saying is surely they should have some kind of Security Procedures in place than to allow a Engineer Ship be that if its one not like they seen, or if they have then they would know their purpose and well would they simply allow the Ship to pass right through unchecked?

How long can David and Shaw hide the fact the ship has no Engineers on it?

That would be interesting to see, how they would react would they have procedures in place and would they be cautious?

Then again we cant say much for Engineer Safety Protocols on LV 223 due to the Outbreak unless some degree of sabotage was involved.

As far as what you mean by seeing Engineers in their Suits and Ships, and if their Homeworld has that Giger look to it that the Engineers Bio-Tech on LV 223 had and LV 426 then who knows.

But i think certainly we could see some as far as Flash Back Scenes go

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Anunnaki50

Nov-11-2014 12:10 AM

Infact Im working on a space jockey suit for next years Comic-con and it taking me over a year to do. I'll post pictures soon. 

The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno

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