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The Space Jockey

The Space Jockey

1 Upvotes17 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
Forum Topic

BigDave

Mar-26-2020 6:44 PM

I know we have discussed this Subject a Number of Times and i have mentioned this in Topics before...

But there still seems to be a bit of Disappointment at WHO the Space Jockey could be, be that Revelations of a Space Suit, with Bald Humanoid Occupants and then how the Space Jockey appeared to be like 12-15ft Tall.

Close Inspection which includes Concept Work would show that this looks like a Space Suit, with only the Helmet looking more like a Skeleton/Skull, the Rib-cage on Close Inspection does-not look like a Skeleton.

Close Inspection also revealed that the Space Jockey is about 13ft Tall

Some may also think that Humanoid Occupants Suck!

Looking at some of the Fifield Mutant Concepts there was ONE that had similar Proportions to a Space Jockey, and looked more ALIEN than a Human.

What if the Space Jockey was Revealed as something similar taking this Concept as a Starting Point?

The Snorkel/Hose Revealed as a Apparatus stuck to the Face like the Cryo-Sleep apparatus the Engineer wore in Prometheus?

I think introducing such a New Species could Work, we could certainly then Consider how this Species could Connect to the Engineers.  Especially as it seems Indicated and Assumed (especially by some working on the Prequels) that the Engineers had NOT created their Technology and they may have either Stolen it, Re-Engineered it, or some other Species had Created it for them.

I think introducing a Species similar to above be it a Species that Pre-Dates the Engineers or are something that David would Engineer, could be the BEST kind of Revelation for our Space Jockey.

What do you think?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

17 Responses to The Space Jockey

Leto

Mar-27-2020 12:34 AM

I like the humanoid Engineers (both from Prometheus). They look like ideal humans. Or future humans - Engineers are different from humans in the same way that humans are different from apes.

But yes - the main point is the height. Engineers should be higher. I understand that Ridley wanted to make Engineers look like humans for a story point. But I don't see any "story" reasons why they should be roughly equal to the size of us. Most likely this is a technical aspect, but not the story.

Maybe Ridley did not want to mess with the angles of filming. Or didn’t want to use CG (I respect that). Or in the script already was a moment in which the Engineer went on the human ship. Therefore, for the sake of this scene, he had to adjust the height.

 

Back to the topic. About Space Jockey.

I want to see them, as strange biomechanical pilots, who grow out of the chair, but I feel that showing these creatures will look like a kind of "backtracking". A recognition that they screwed up.

It seems like - "Well, we have Engineers who look like humans, but their spacesuits look like Space Jockey. And now we are introducing the Space Jockey, who look like Engineer's spacesuit, which look like Space Jokey... Well, a true Space Jockey from Alien. It's not the suite."

I feel that this will be an even bigger confusing mess. Especially if Ridley says: "Ho ho ho! I want to leave some mystery and will not explain anything to you."

 

P.S. Nice picture with marked details of Space Jockey.

ignorantGuy

Mar-28-2020 1:15 AM

@BigDave I still believe that the Space Jockey in the end would have been David, sorry. That makes thematic sense even if you don't like the idea.

Have you seen Doom Eternal? In it that they introduced the Maykrs and they have a SJ flavor to them (biomechanical and the rest). And the new Icon of Sin... 

hox

Mar-28-2020 1:48 AM

@BigDave, I’m not sure why you say on close inspection the rib cage doesn’t look like a skeleton. When Dallas peers over the SJ body and says the bones are bent outward, it sure looks like a ruptured skeleton to me. The broken jagged bone ends look like something you’d find in a butcher’s shop. I mean, tell me these aren't bones!

BigDave

Mar-28-2020 3:41 PM

@Leto

Certainly the Intentions was to give us 12-15ft Engineers, but RS at Production had decided to Downgrade this and attempt to use Camera Angles to Allude to a 8ft Engineer, the Actual Cryo-Pods would only Accommodate up to a 8ft Tall being.  I think if we had a Continuation then we would have to Accept our Engineers as being a Average of 7.5ft Tall as a Race when not in the Space Suit.   But as NOT every Human is about 5ft10, then there could be 9-10ft Engineers as the Extreme of their Species, which would appear Taller when Space Suited and the Final Piece of the Puzzle is (as Dallas said) the Pilot could have Grown out of the Chair.

"strange biomechanical pilots"

I think Certainly that could be a Option, the more i had studied the Space Jockey over the Years (prior to Prometheus) it seemed to be more of some Space Suit or a Truly Bio-mechanical Being like the Xenomorphs are for example.

The Engineers Certainly could be looked at as being a Evolved Humanoid Species, who knows what Mankind could look like in say 10'000 Years.... but maybe we would be more like David by then ;)

I think while there are some Differences between the Space Jockey/Derelict and the Engineers/Juggernaught although the Intention seems they are the SAME... any slight Inconsistencies allows for Deniability by the Fans, and allows for things to be Changed.

If what we got was the SHIPS looked Aesthetically more Closer, and the SUITS likewise and we saw the Engineers as 10-12ft on our Screens and the Dead Engineer Suits became a Bone-Like Color or getting there..... then there would be more Concrete Proof and us having to Accept that they are the Space Jockey.

@Ignorantguy

David behind the Space Jockey is maybe a likely Scenario, Certainly as far as if he could either Transfer his Soul to a NEW Body/Being or he had Created the Space Jockey, i would think that these are a Possible Path that RS would have taken us.   As far as it just being Regular David inside the Space Suit then again this CANT be ruled out.

We could expect that it would be a Engineer, we could HOPE that its either a Newly Introduced Species or Taller Engineer/Humanoids, i think its maybe Clutching at Straws to be the Skeleton of some Species.

But if we got a Continuation it seems the Path to ALIEN is a Chronological One and as the Themes Explored are about Sub-Creation and Evolution and also RS seems interested in A.I then i do think that we could have ENDED up being shown that the Space Jockey as a Creation/Organism is something that has NOT yet been Created as of Alien Covenant.

Not what i would have liked, but i am one who can take that Bitter Pill and Swallow it, hopefully there be a Spoon Full of Sugar to help that Medicine go down ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Mar-28-2020 4:33 PM

@Ignorantguy

I have not played the New Doom Games, i dont own a Latest Games Console, and my PC is about 10 Years or so OLD... i was a BIG Fan of the Original Doom Series though ;)

Looking Quickly into the Maykrs then i can see a bit of a Connection as far as to Angels etc.... they look at Quick Glimpse like say what Robocop 2014 was

As far as taking some Parts of a Organism but have the Rest of their Body being Mechanical/Synthetic...  again such a Future could await Humans in Thousands of Years Time as a way to try and Gain more Life!  But thats a different Subject all together.

I think that the HR Giger Aesthetic of Bio-Mechanical is what made ALIEN what it was, and i think we can only Hope the Space Jockey is such a Bio-Mechanical Entity but maybe we shall never find out.

@Hox

To be fair i think some Parts of the Ribs do look like Skeletal, but on Closer Inspection they look ODD for Ribs.

I have used the Image above to Highlight what i mean, when i refer back to the Concept Work and look at these Details it seems that what we have is either a Space Suit or a Totally Alien Bio-mechanical being like the Xenomorph.

I understand for some its a Disappointment to try and Reveal this as a Space Suit, and Certainly to have Humanoid Occupants.   I mean NO kind of Disrespect to whatever anyone else wishes to believe or hopes for the Truth to be.    We have covered the Space Jockey a bit as far as the Skeleton Debate, and while Dallas seems to indicate it is, we have to Remember that he is NO expert (but the Dialog was added for a reason).

The purpose of this Topic is to Voice how you feel about the Space Jockey and what kind of Hopes that people have for HOW they would like it to be Revealed.

Some still would like to see it as a Skeleton of some being and while it may not look like a Traditional Skeleton, we are talking a ALIEN Species and so we CANT assume their Skeletal Structure would be the Same as Organism on Earth.

So a Skeleton is something that while Unlikely, its something that CANT be 100% Ruled Out as we have YET to reach any Conclusion.

Above are TWO of the Space Jockey in the Flesh interpretations from the Older Comics, there was a Third but that was Comical.   So by all means WHY NOT as far as a Skeleton.

But as the ALIEN Franchise was Very ALIEN and there appeared to be a Connection between the Bio-Mechanical Ship and the Xenomorph, then WHY cant the Pilot be Bio-Mechanical?

I guess the only Problem then would be to ASK how can a Bio-Mechanical being become Chest Busted?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Mar-28-2020 11:31 PM

@BigDave,

I think that the HR Giger Aesthetic of Bio-Mechanical is what made ALIEN what it was, and i think we can only Hope the Space Jockey is such a Bio-Mechanical Entity but maybe we shall never find out. The purpose of this Topic is to Voice how you feel about the Space Jockey and what kind of Hopes that people have for HOW they would like it to be Revealed.

My own feelings are that embracing an Engineer in a chair does a disservice to Giger. Many of his paintings depict “creatures” that are bonded with their environment. The Giger print hanging on my wall, for example, shows a woman (of sorts) mechanically bonded to scuba gear, her mouth invaded by an oxygen tube. Some of her constraints blend into her body.

To a degree, this is successfully observed in the suits worn by the Engineers themselves: they blend seamlessly into the Engineer’s skin. I’m fine with that - very Giger-esque. But where I have total disappointment is the notion that the original SJ was just an Engineer (or similar) that just hopped into the chair. Even my cat can tell that the SJ meshes into the chair, bonded to it. Constrained. Trapped. Consumed. An integral part of the terrifying and alien whole.

Some still would like to see it as a Skeleton of some being and while it may not look like a Traditional Skeleton, we are talking a ALIEN Species and so we CANT assume their Skeletal Structure would be the Same as Organism on Earth.

Dead right. Our skeletons help us to move around. The SJ may or may not have had the ability to move around, but he ends up being part of a machine. He doesn’t need to run around, and he’s just fused with it. However it happened, and whatever its ultimate purpose, it’s alien and weird so we don’t need to worry too much about the details.

But as the ALIEN Franchise was Very ALIEN and there appeared to be a Connection between the Bio-Mechanical Ship and the Xenomorph, then WHY cant the Pilot be Bio-Mechanical?

Why not indeed.

I guess the only Problem then would be to ASK how can a Bio-Mechanical being become Chest Busted?

That’s a good question because you first have to know what an alien biomechanical being actually is. Let’s say, for example, that the ship itself was constructed (or grown) organically. Yay, that’s what super-advanced aliens can do. Did the chair and SJ grow together? Was the SJ grown separately and ultimately fused with chair? Can he ever leave? Is he happy with his life? Is he “fed” by the ship in a similar same way that a facehugger feeds its victim? Whatever, its organic history could likely be its Achilles Heel, and I imagine it could be chest bursted quite easily. Adding a bit of horror, let’s just suggest for a moment that a regular facehugger could penetrate a host by sucking out an eyeball and inserting its proboscis there. That would be a bit of fun, wouldn’t it. Not exactly Disney material, though!

The problem then is that it’s strongly implied in Prometheus that the SJ was something that just hopped in to do the piloting. As you know, I’m not happy with that idea for ideological reasons. One way out of that conundrum would be for the Engineers to be revealed as a race that revere a pre-existing civilisation/technology, and they emulate their forms. Or, here’s another scenario...

The ship slowly formed, and attained a size where it could detach itself from its umbilicus. The pilot chair grew and, with it, the pilot bud grew in size. Gradually becoming aware of its identity, environment and purpose, it suddenly sensed pain as it detected an invading creature hacking at its limbs. Screaming in terror, the young pilot could do nothing as it was excised from its mother. It twitched and withered on the cold platform as a bipedal form took its place. With no concern and utter alacrity, the Engineer powered up the navigation...

Thoughts_Dreams

Mar-29-2020 3:46 AM

That has been a mystery for so long so no matter what you do you will disappoint some people. How ever, something could be to have something that is above the Engineer sin the hierarchy to have as the Space Jockey, I am thinking about how disappointing the Planet 4 ones were and even if I found the one in Prometheus to be interesting what we saw in Alien Covenant made me wish that the SJ would be someone higher up in the hierarchy.

Maybe something more Alien than an Engineer could work. I am thinking about the Orchs in Lord of the Rings trilogy, not to say that you need to copy that but they look a bit human still different. The worst case scenario is to have David as the Space Jockey, or a human so if that is their plan then they should not make another prequel at all because the situation is bad enough as it is.

When we look at the SJ and compare it to the Engineers I think that there is a connection there. I think that having something above the Engineers could be a way to go if they will do another movie at all. Sorry but I do not think that that David should have anything to do with it at all, I am tired of that. You have had two movies where David has a big role and at least the second did not do too well so it would be foolish to have another movie that is about him, I am not interested in that but they could expand on the Engineers.

BigDave

Mar-30-2020 3:05 PM

@hox

Certainly i think when we look back to when we First Saw the Space Jockey (for those who see ALIEN before the Prequels) it was Bizarre, so thinking that this PILOT was a Slave to the Ship, that he is Permanently a Prisoner of the Ship is something that some of Wonder before, and i think this is what James Cameron felt about the Space Jockey.

Trying to Imagine that this Pilot was Part of the Ship, that he was Enslaved or has some kind of Symbiotic Relationship is something that more Bizarre than a Bi-Pedal Organism/Entity that can come and go from the Chair at Will.

The Space Jockey had gone through some Evolution from Inception, starting off as being the Skeletal Remains of a Organism that is NOT very Human looking, who just Happened to Fall Victim to the ALIEN just as the Human Crew that Many Many years latter suffered the Same Fate.

This Dead Pilot having a Few Designs that were Nothing like a Human, Until RS had came across HR Gigers work and Necronom V

Ridley Scott liked the look of the Being that was like Riding on the Back of the Feminine Humanoid Figure (which inspired the Xenomorph in part).

The thing that RS did like was that it seemed this Being was Fused with what he saw as a Chair and he was SOLD on this idea for the Pilot and his Pilot Chair.  And so YES the idea of the Space Jockey being something that is FUSED to the Chair for Eternity is something that Originally seemed to be what they was going for.

This Necronom V was used as the idea for the Alien Pilot Species and it was drawn in some Ridleygrams.... but then they got HR Giger to come up with a Concept that was based on that and this is when we got the Space Jockey that we ENDED UP with.

HR Giger also doing some Concepts such as Face Huggers, and a Mural and these seem to depict Space Suits that had a somewhat Familiar Look to the Space Jockey, the Occupants were BALD Humanoids.. so this was something that HR Giger had drawn out, but from his Concepts you cant HELP but think these depicted some Species that were Enslaved to whoever had Created the Ship/Xenomorph.

I think before we got to Alien Covenant, then the Space Jockey was Ancient and so it could have been Explored as another Species, a Bio-mechanically Entity and indeed Certainly something that has become and has been at ONE with the Ship.... where we could then Speculate the Engineers had merely Reverse Engineered the Technology.

Alien Covenant makes it more difficult because it appears we must Accept (but its Subject to Change) that there is NO crashed Derelict or its Pilot as of the Time-Line that Alien Covenant had taken place...

This does not mean the Derelict cant be Introduced as a Incoming Ship, or that its Occupant is David, a Human or any kind of Engineer we have so far seen.

It could be a Space Suit with a not-so Human looking Occupant or a Totally Bio-Mechanical Construct, but i would assume they would be revealed to be Bi-Pedal and can Enter and Leave the Pilot Chair but they become as ONE while they are Connected.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Mar-30-2020 3:21 PM

@Thoughts_Dreams

Certainly the Occupant does-not have to be Human looking, i made this Image for a Topic on here Quite some time ago.

The Possibilities are kind of Endless to what a Alien Organism inside of a Space Suit could look like, i would like to think it best to USE something that we can make some Connection to the Xenomorph and Ancestry though, or Certainly some Unused Concepts from the Franchise or HR Gigers Work.

The Image i Posted in the OT was one of the Concepts for Fifield that has a similar Body Proportions to a Space Jockey (or so it appeared)  and aside from the Read or the Head which is a Bit Pointed, i think it would PASS as the Space Jockey, in the Image i also had the Cryo-Sleep Engineer, to show the Snorkel could be some Contraption that would Attach and FUSE with the Wearer and the Suit could be just as the Engineers  Cry-Sleep/Pressure Suits.

Like HR Gigers Necronom 7

We see some kind of Helmet/Mask that does-not Enclose the Entire Head, with Typical HR Giger style this Mask looks like its Attached/Fused with the Wearer.

So what i am saying is as with the OT is that maybe the Space Jockey Head is the Skeletal Remains of some Organism with a Elongated Head but the Snorkel is some Bio-Mechanical Apparatus that attaches to the Organisms Face and this Connects to the Suit that then Connects to the Chair.

The Occupant could be something thats NOT really the same as a Engineer or Human.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Nathan Adler

Mar-31-2020 12:58 AM

 @BigDave: OMG, Ice Warrior and Otto Dix Invalid rolled into one;)

BigDave

Mar-31-2020 6:50 PM

When looking at what the Space Jockey would be if it was a Skeleton, well a Mummy of a Organism, then the Concepts (by Daryl Joyce) above as in 1/2 are Pretty Accurate and i would say that IF we looked at the Snorkel as being a Apparatus and so if we removed this from those Concepts then i think what those Designs by Daryl Joyce show is something that i could imagine a Space Jockey to look like if we assume the Head was a SKULL and not Helmet.

If we IGNORE the Snorkel/Hose then they do look a bit like some of the Fifield Concepts.  Particularly if we COMBINE the 5+6 Concepts then we get close, add some Trunk/Snorkel to a Combination of those TWO and i think you would NOT be too FAR off what Daryl Joyce had done.

So i like his Concepts/Fan Art, i think they could work if this kind of Design lacked the TRUNK and it was inside a Space Suit with a Mask/Trunk that attached the Suit to the Face of this Organism. Especially Image 1

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Mar-31-2020 9:50 PM

The purpose of this Topic is to Voice how you feel about the Space Jockey and what kind of Hopes that people have for HOW they would like it to be Revealed.

Personally, I liked the idea of it being a fossilized creature that was also part of the chair. I think Dallas thought it was a fossil and that's where my imagination went. 

I would have just liked to see it as a fleshed out version of what Dallas found- basically like BD's pics with a trunk of some kind. 

No matter what anyone thinks, it also leads to the inevitable mystery of the chest burster, its burning into the floor etc...

Engineer Tech Brett

Apr-01-2020 10:21 AM

When I first watched Alien I got the notion that the Space Jockey was a species itself but after watching Prometheus I really didn't have a problem with it just being a space suit for the pilot.

For me the idea that its some sort of biomechanical suit that you get into to pilot a ship is just as interesting as it being a completely different alien race from the Engineers. I really don't mind it at all.

It could just be that the Derelict in Alien belonged to a different sect or race of engineers (think Romulan and Vulcan) who like engineering themselves further than what they are.

Then again, its quite possible that the Space Jockey in Alien could be David who liked messing about with the black goo and did something to himself and then build a ship that was big enough for himself.

Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.

BigDave

Apr-02-2020 10:07 AM

When i First Saw the Space Jockey a few times it was LONG AGO in a Time prior to DVD and the Internet and indeed at this Time it came across like a Skeleton, but i was Young and we never had the Benefit of Larger/Clearer TV's.

It was only in the 90's that i came across a Magazine from a Friend with Close Ups and i am sure RS had said it was a Space Suit in the Magazine, when i looked at the Space Jockey Arms and Head (apart from the Face) it did look ODD for a Skeleton, this Magazine also had the HR Giger Concept which when i looked at that then it did-not look a Skeleton to me.

Once the DVD came out and i had Watched it on DVD about Year 2000, then i could PAUSE it and then the only Part that looked like a Skeleton to me was the Face, and Ribs to a Degree.   But at this time what i assumed the Space Jockey was is a BIO-MECHANICAL being like the Xenomorph was, like SIL from Species was etc.  So to me the Rib-cage was more like the Xenomorphs in that what we had was more of a Exo-Skeleton.

It was a FEW years latter via the Internet i came across and could STUDY in depth more work by HR Giger which included his Face Hugger Concepts and the Mural for ALIEN and then indeed i could see it could be a Space Suit but i felt it was VERY ODD that the Occupants were Humanoid.

So for me then YES i think the BEST way to Reveal it would be either some SPACE SUIT where the Occupant is NOT so Human, or even as i showed in my Posts where the SUIT has no HELMET but the Skull of a ALIEN being with some Breathing/Snorkel thats attached to the Face.

Or that it is some Bio-Mechanical Entity like the Xenomorph is and various HR Giger Work.

I think we may have to accept its a Engineer though, and i dont think so much Complaints would be made if the Engineers where 10-12ft Tall on Screen and the SUIT looked more like this ONE.

Maybe trying to make it look a bit more like HR Gigers Concept from the BANNER and Proportions as below.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-02-2020 5:09 PM

This is a Interesting take by Artist Christian Urdapilleta

This is also Interesting by Mark Williams as far as Imagine that with a Snorkel/Mask, but its a little to GREY ALIEN looking though.  I think Different Eyes and Position then something like that could maybe Work?

I think the BEST revelation would have been a Bio-Mechanical Entity/Being like in that Last Image, which is what our Xenomorph is.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Maxeno

Apr-08-2020 8:38 PM

I think it's clear it is an that the SJ was/is an engineer.  The orginal Prometheus story had an engineer.  Before Damon got a hold of it.

BigDave

Apr-09-2020 4:59 PM

Absolutely Maxeno (Welcome Aboard)

This appeared to be the Intention as of 2010, but as i have discussed before a number of Times in the Past, then Notion of Human looking beings in a Space Suit is maybe NOT something just Pulled Out of the air by Jon Spaights.

As this seemed to  be the Indication in HR Gigers Concepts from 1977-1978.

I know such Revelations had not settled with some Fans, which is why in this Topic i offer them a chance to Voice how they Feel but mainly to look at WHAT kind of Alternative they would like to see.

NOT that its likely they would get what they want though ;)

I think its open for them to Introduce something else... Be that...

*Another Humanoid like the Engineers/Humans but Taller.

*A Bi-pedal Humanoid that is FAR from Human Looking.

*A Bio-Mechanical Being/Entity.

But certainly prior to Alien Covenant the Intention was to show that the Space Jockey was a Engineer or Related.  With the release of Alien Covenant then the Space Jockey as a Engineer is something that could CHANGE.

I suspect that IF that Changes However, then it would likely be some other Species that David Creates... or David in some Engineered New Body he has Created. Thats the suspicion i have if things had Continued... i think that it would have been like 40% Chance of something like that, with a 40% it would be a Engineer leaving 20% Chance of it being some other Race Connected to the Engineers.

Unfortunately unless its Created by David, then i cant see the Space Jockey being revealed as something that is either FAR from Human or a Bio-Mechanical being.

With Disney in Charge, i think they may even SKIP the Space Jockey, and move away from the Prequels... or in TIME they may give something that maybe they FEEL the Fans would want.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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