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MAKE ALIEN GREAT AGAIN!

MAKE ALIEN GREAT AGAIN!

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BigDave

Jul-05-2020 6:37 AM

With the FRANCHISE being in a Pickle at the Moment, with the Prequels being in Cyro-sleep... maybe for 57 Years ;)

The ALIEN Franchise is still Regarded as a Great Franchise that still makes MONEY in other Mediums/Merchandise.

I think that a VAST Majority see ALIEN as a Great Movie

It Spawned a Sequel that i think a LOT of Fans still Enjoy and Respect, and ONE that made the IMAGE of the ALIEN become more Mainstream.

Since that GOLDEN ERA for the Franchise, things got a lot more Divisive and Disappointing for the Fanbase.

I dont think we have had a GOOD Movie since 1986 we have seen some Potential with what Followed, but then also Flaws.

Can the ALIEN Franchise be made GREAT AGAIN?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

120 Responses to MAKE ALIEN GREAT AGAIN!

MonsterZero

Jul-05-2020 7:25 AM

Sure.

I think it'd take an A-list actor though, and that would eat up a good chunk of the budget.

I'd like to see Chris Evans play a colonial marine...(He could even play Hicks). 

dk

Jul-05-2020 1:13 PM

Even though a reboot of Star Trek was successful, I doubt it would work for Alien. Even if it was a good movie, a large part of the fan base would probably pick it apart and pan it.

A movie based on the time line between Aliens and A3 might work and there have been a couple ways discussed on how that could go. The problem is that a younger audience who weren't even alive during that golden age might not buy into it.

Everybody knows a new movie will not please everybody else. Hate to say it, but maybe it's time for Marvel to forge ahead to appeal to a younger demographic and let them enjoy their own experience like we have with the Quadrilogy and prequels. We can always participate. Who knows- we might actually like it.

SuperAlien

Jul-05-2020 2:27 PM

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Blueant

Jul-05-2020 5:20 PM

I will comment on this!!! Have no fear! It's coming Alien fans and you know it......

BigDave

Jul-06-2020 5:06 AM

I think the Franchise Theatrically has LOST its GREATNESS.

How you attempt to regain that GREATNESS is a Difficult Task!  I think we Fundamentally have to Look at WHAT was GREAT about the Franchise.

In 1979 the World was introduced to the Franchise with the First Movie.... The Cult Classic ALIEN.  While there had been other Space Monster Movies what really made ALIEN so different was Firstly the Horrific Life-Cycle of the Beast and Secondly the Aesthetically Appearance of the Beast that made it so UNIQUE and NEW.

With Ridley Scott at the Helm this was Visually Stunning for its Time, a Claustrophobic Horror our First Introduction to the Cosmic Horror is surely one of the GREATEST Sci-Fi Horrors in Hollywood History.

Supported by a Small Cast that Portrayed their Characters really well, and interesting Sub-Plot regarding the Weylan-Yutani company and Special Order 937 from the Moment we First saw the Egg right until we saw the Beast Fired out into Space, i am sure MOST of us agree this is a Masterpiece.

In 1986 we was introduced to a Sequel with ALIENS, now it was Highly Likely that a Sequel would go back to LV-426.  While ALIEN had a lot of Mystery Connected to it, the Sequel decided to Concentrate on the Iconic ALIEN Monster Once again.

James Cameron had decided to give us Action Sci-Fi take on the Franchise and Introduced the Queen.  While this may have NOT been what some Fans had in Mind/Hopes for a Sequel i think the Incarnation that we got with ALIENS is the ONE that Most people would Recognize

Seeing Multiple Xenomorphs (as they were NOW coined) was a Exciting way to Re-Introduce the Iconic Monster, the revelation of a Egg Laying Queen also will go down as Iconic.   While introducing the Beast as some Species that have a Natural Instinct to Procreate and Act like a Hive, the Space Bugs (or Space Termites as i like to call them) was something that some FANS felt had restricted the Iconic Monster to a Dumb Bug Movie (Actually the Xenomorphs showed a Good Deal of Intelligence in this Movie).  While this is WHERE some Division began because what we got is MAYBE not what some Fans would have expected from ALIEN, it none the Less is the Most Recognized Incarnation of the Franchise and a SOLID Action Sci-Fi, yes its a bit Popcorn but it shows how to Execute a Good Popcorn Action Flick.   With Starship Troopers being a example of a Lesser Quality Popcorn.

It seemed that Ripleys Journey had ENDED... she had LOST her Daughter due to being in Cryo-Sleep for 57 Years, she had to go back to Face her Demons on LV-426 and it seemed the Menace was Finally Over... and that with Newt and Hicks maybe their was some kind of Family Life in store for her!

At this POINT i think while some Fans maybe did-not like to see the Portrayal we got in ALIENS, i would say in General these Movies both made the Franchise GREAT.

NEXT....... is when things Started to Divide Opinion.

In 1992 we was Once Again given a Alien Movie.... and i WONT go into too much Detail with regards to ALIEN 3 because it did have a Problematic Production.  I think there was Elements that had Displeased the Fans.

*Xenomorph was NOT as Good as what we had seen before, but it was trying something a BIT Different.  Visually it was not as SOLID as we seen before. But i still think the Runner was still a Formidable Threat.

*Change of Direction in regards to this being more closer to ALIEN than a ALIENS and so NO Multiple Xenomorphs, no Guns etc..  I think this may have Disappointed Some, for others it was a Welcome Change.  Again i dont think the TYPE of Plot was a Problem.  I think Alien 3 is a little Underrated but certainly not to the Standard Set prior.

*End of a Era.... this Movie saw the eventual Death of the ALIENS Cast, and i think THIS really did UPSET a Fair Few Fans.  Should Ripley have had the Happy Ending?  Nope this is ALIEN and its a Cruel Universe.  You could NOT have brought back Carrie Henn as Newt and her Death adds some Gravity/Loss to Ripley

However... i would say that maybe KILLING of Hicks was not Needed.... with regard to Ripley well it brought some Closure to her Story with a Worthy Sacrifice..

But that was IT... Ripley was Dead... the Xenomorph seemed Dead... and END OF A ERA!

In 1997 we Finally had another ALIEN Venture when they Resurrected the Alien and Ripley with Alien Resurrection

It seemed the Studio had concluded that if you needed a ALIEN Movie then you needed Ripley back and so the Clone Plot was introduced.... For some the Character of Ripley 8 was just not our Beloved Ripley

While the Clone Plot was Flawed/Odd it did offer some Glimpses to something NEW, our Xenomorphs a little Different.  Ripley was back even more BAD-ASS and the Plot was more Action again.  But Execution  was NOT that Good.

While the Queen was not shown much, and was Killed by its own Birthed Off Spring the Newborn... i think on One-Hand this was something NEW the Idea of Hybrids its Interesting but the Execution/Portrayal of the New Born was NOT everyone's Cup of Tea... also including its Interaction with Ripley 8

But i applaud the Movie for TRYING to do something Different and i see the Potential with Ripley 8 and i also think the AUTON subplot was something that could be Explored.... but what we would be GETTING TOO is something that would Deter/Change too much from what Fans saw in ALIEN/ALIENS.

I think CHANGE is something that Some Fans are NOT that Comfortable with.... and maybe trying to STEER AWAY from what made ALIEN/ALIENS so Iconic is something thats a RISK.

I wont TRY and Discus the AVP Franchise much... just that Visually the First Movie was Decent, it was Popcorn Action and when Considering it as NONE-CANON then i think actually it was NOT bad...

But it was again a Movie (especially with AVPR) that kind of Degraded the Xenomorph compared to its Original Incarnation in ALIEN.

It had been a NUMBER of Years... before the Prequels.. and again i WONT go much into Detail with them...

Originally then YES we was going to get Xenomorphs, and some Answers/Clues to LV-426 but then Prometheus was Born which was to NOT be a ALIEN Movie and was to STEER AWAY from the ALIEN Franchise.

But at THIS POINT the Xenomorph was a Mystery.. the LV-426 Derelict a Mystery.

For Some Fans they were Missing the Xenomorph, there was a LOT of Interest in Blomkamps Alien 5

Then we GET to Alien Covenant which is WHERE things seem to have taken a Wrong-Turn!

Without trying to GO into Detail.... i think when we are looking at HOW do you Introduce and Resurrect the Xenomorph after Alien Resurrection

Then to Introduce it as Part of the Plot in Alien Covenant and thus indicating the Origin was NOT that ALIEN or Ancient... but the Creation of a Bored and Psychotic Robot....  is something that had Degraded the Xenomorph.

So in Context to MAKING ALIEN GREAT....

Then Prior to Alien R what made it Great was in Part the Story of Ripley, but her Journey Ended and you DONT have to have a Ripley to make a ALIEN Movie.  But what the First 3 Movies did well was Better Use and Execution of Characters.

The Next thing that made it GREAT was the BEAST and How Iconic it was.... while its a bit Divisive between Fans of the Big Chap vs Camerons Aliens... i think Aesthetically its what Fans liked, i dont think MANY of the Fans would LIKE to see things Changed too FAR... Aesthetically.

I think you then have to look at HOW Often can you Keep Repeating the same Ideas and Aesthetic before it gets Stale for some though... this is where some Division remains.  The First Time we saw the Beast it was Original and a Enigma.... with Aliens it became Cool but in all Mediums we have seen the Aliens Version shown more, which is Cool, but i think you had to TRY and Elevate the Beast somewhat (which some Comics/Books tried).

But i think WHAT made the ALIEN so GREAT was....

It was a ENIGMA and the MYSTERY and Eventually then YEAH maybe when Ideas have RAN OUT you may have to ANSWER that Mystery and Enigma.

With the Prequels and Especially with Alien Covenant then the BEAST is NO LONGER that ENIGMA.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jul-06-2020 5:42 AM

If you wish to SKIP the Above History....

The Nut Shell is that the Xenomorph was Original, a Enigma it was something NEVER seen before, with Aliens while it may NOT have been how every Fan would have wanted to see the Xenomorph explored it was STILL a Iconic Movie.

The Beast sadly was NOT as well Executed in Future Movies and we have seen it in Games and Comics over and over, that IF your going to show it AGAIN then for some maybe you need to Elevate it beyond what it was in ALIENS, but for some Fans they Value Aliens as the ULTIMATE Incarnation (Certainly the most Recognized).

It seemed for some the more you see it the LESS of a Enigma it becomes (this depend on HOW its shown and Executed).  With Alien and Aliens it was Executed Very Well.

With ALIEN it was a Enigma, with ALIENS it came across as more like a Space Termite... and so you have to try and UPLIFT the Beast!   But with the Revelations of AC then the MYSTERY has gone but also the ENIGMA is Lost.

So we HIT that Cross-Road as to WHAT do we do?

I dont think that we have to go and introduce Ripley again, even if its to Follow Ripley 8... we can leave that a MYSTERY

And so i DONT think you have to go and RETCON any Movie in the Franchise be it that Alien 3 and Alien R are Dreams or Aliens is a Dream!

Ripleys Journey is OVER!

I dont think you HAVE to go and REBOOT the Franchise!

What you going to do REMAKE the Whole LOT?  Do you have Miss Weaver back and De-Age her?  Do you CAST someone else as Ripley?   I thin either way you are GOING to be UPSETTING some Fans.

Do you Reboot Characters?  So we have Male Roby replace Female Ripley (as with the Original Drafts) but then if the REST of the Plot is the same then WHAT is the Point?  If you CHANGE the Xenomorph Aesthetic then you will UPSET the Fans.

You can introduce the Xenomorph and New Characters in a NEW Movie that does-not have to be a Remake/Reboot!

Do you REBOOT the Prequels so that you can Regain some that ENIGMA of the ALIEN?  But then some Fans would NOT be pleased as they Like Prometheus.

The MYSTERY and ENIGMA is what made ALIEN Great!

This is NOW in Grave Jeopardy with Alien Covenant!  Do you Reboot that?  Do you CONTINUE with a Sequel and then TRY and Change things to try and regain that Enigma?

You could give another ALIEN Movie where you SIMPLY dont touch on the Prequels.. not Directly.... so the Eggs you come across  you DONT Indicate their Origins and Date... Certainly as far as either indicating they are from after 2093 or even Thousands of Years Prior!

You leave it a Mystery so we DONT know what Happens after Alien Covenant, we can maybe Pretend the Xenomorph is Ancient.... if you want.

I think you have to go back to Introducing the Xenomorph but then you look at a SET-UP to Enhance it and Evolve it!

The PAST?  forget it... time to Move On! Forwards!

Look at Mankind... we came from mere Apes in the Distant Past (well apparently) i think regardless of that.. or by Aliens or by a GOD or Gods.....  its about WHAT can Mankind become?

We DONT live in Caves anymore and thats what Counts ;)

in Context to the Franchise then maybe the Engineers once lived in Caves too?

So what i am saying is that maybe they can MAKE another ALIEN Movie where the Seeds are their to NOT explore their Origins... but to see how we can UPLIFT and EVOLVE them and this does-not have to be so much Aesthetically but surely to LIFT them beyond Advanced Space Termites.

Thats NOT me calling them BUGZ.. but more so asking to WHAT IF say Hadleys Hope was NOT Destroyed... or WHAT IF a Xenomorph Infestation has taken over a World and what becomes of them YEARS and not WEEKS latter?

Take Planet of the Apes..... at some point in the VERY distant Past... then Mankind was similar to those Apes... we Evolved over Hundreds of Thousands of Years... could Xenomorphs EVOLVE on a Quicker Scale (i dont mean just Aesthetically)

Back to Planet of the Apes... those Apes were merely Apes before HUMANS began Experiments.. and look at their Evolution!

What if the Xenomorph was Experimented on... could we TRIGGER a Evolution?

So maybe this is what we NEED to look at...

AGAIN this will NOT please EVERYONE!

You simply CANT do that.... and THUS... i dont think ALIEN will ever become GREAT again.... But its Certainly NOT Dead... not YET!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

SuperAlien

Jul-06-2020 6:37 AM

Now I don't think they could come across  some eggs and xenomophs and pretend David's fingering did not happen.

So in my opinion, they should first fix the things in a sequel to Alien Covenant, to make it clear that David either found the eggs in the basement or created just his own version. We need closure, otherwise every bit of xenomorph I see takes me back to David's workshop.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

SuperAlien

Jul-06-2020 6:42 AM

I hate the idea of a Marvel Alien crossover, I hope they would resist the temptation. They could take the Predator if they really want a new monster, but leave the xenomorph alone.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

SuperAlien

Jul-06-2020 6:49 AM

BigDave at this stage only David could make Alien great again. With a little help from Ridley Scott.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

dk

Jul-06-2020 10:17 AM

BigDave You bring up good points. I would be fine if the franchise left the prequels where they are. I liked keeping the Space Jockey and the Xenomorph mysteries. On the other hand, I like the Quadrilogy by itself- warts and all. Another movie made during that time line is possible, but it should not attempt to erase history- that would be both a bold and arrogant move. 

You brought up a common feature of the Quadrilogy that the prequels lacked- memorable characters. The Xeno is out of the bag and doesn't really scare anymore. So besides the characters, we need a great story since we already know about the Xeno. You mentioned that the movies, although some better than others, at least tried something DIFFERENT. THAT is what is needed. To sum- memorable characters, great story and DIFFERENT.

A couple other considerations: like it or not, it's Marvel's baby now. Secondly, there is a new generation that might notice the Xeno, but may not be familiar with the Quadrilogy or might have a casual familiarity with it. Those are going to be the ones to buy tickets and put their butts in the seats. They can go to any movie- Marvel (if a movie is to come of it) needs to give them a reason to buy into this franchise and see THEIR movie (or read their comics for that matter).

If it's a popcorn movie and is popular, GREAT! It would be validated at the box office and serve as a baseline for more movies. If I don't like it, I can always fall back on the Quadrilogy or watch something else. I think the opinion that the franchise should die because it doesn't cater to an individual's expectations is a selfish one.

 

hox

Jul-06-2020 11:49 AM

A GREAT movie would be David coming to a fitting end, at the hands of some brave and abused colonists.

A GREAT movie would be to see the revenge of the Engineers, bearing down on Origae-6.

A GREAT movie would be to see the battle between the Engineers and Space Jockeys (creators of the Engineers, the original black goo and disseminators of Galactic Genocide).

A GREAT movie would NOT be some people running around dark corridors hiding from a Xenomorph. We've seen that too many times already. It's boring.

The Film Theory Of Everything

Jul-06-2020 12:02 PM

 LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOVE IT!!!! M.A.G.A!!!!!!!!! 2020!!!!

BigDave

Jul-06-2020 1:12 PM

I think its VERY Problematic to MAKE a Movie that will Please all the Fanbase.

" We need closure, otherwise every bit of xenomorph I see takes me back to David's workshop."

So i will START with this Good Point at the Moment we have Alien Covenant which indicates to us that as of prior to David's Arrival on Planet 4 then the Xenomorph did-not EXIST

What this PLOT does is TAKE AWAY the ENIGMA of the Xenomorph and REDUCE its Role.

For some people when they NOW go and Watch the Franchise some may have that THOUGHT and Realization that the Xenomorph is a Creation by a Cranky Robot, for some they will just PRETEND that AC had never Happened or Clutch to the Novel like some Biblical Truth.

The Current Revelations dont really OFFER any means to Uplift the Xenomorph because its Origins are somewhat Tarnished to many by this ROUTE.

To attempt to FIX this is a Problem, because its a Juggling Act to TRY and give the Xenomorph a Different Origin while also TRYING to NOT completely Discredit the Prequels.

The David Arc makes Perfect Sense however it would have JUST had made sense if he had Created something DIFFERENT.  I dont want us to TRY and get Bogged Down with the Prequels in Context to the Xenomorph as its something that as FAR as seeing Theatrically (Continuation) it could be UNLIKELY its a HARD subject to come to a Conclusion that Pleases most.

Some Options would be....

1) That INDEED we are on a Journey that David is the Creator and we are on the Roads to his Creation becoming Evolved/Engineered then ENDING up on a Engineer Ship.

2) David had become a bit Crazy and Fooling himself to take the Credit for what he MERELY had Discovered on Planet 4 that he had attempted to Genetically Manipulate.  I think this could get us to ASK as to WHY would the  Planet 4 Engineers be so STUPID to keep Eggs.

3) The Engineers or another Race above them will Discover Davids Creation, and see the Potential in it and TAKE IT to Re-Engineer... thus David is the Middle Man.

4) That Alien Covenant is a Dr Shaws Cryo-Nightmare!

I think that OPTION 3 or Similar is the BEST WAY so that it goes some way to Fitting with Davids Arc and other Themes we had seen in Prometheus..

I just FEEL that to go for that PLOT or indeed Option (1) would be a Struggle to get to ALIEN in a Single Movie and i cant see a LOT of Fans wishing to go on another Davids Journey/Story.

I think a Prequel Continuation is a Difficult Act to Continue with.  Certainly as FAR as how many would go and PAY to see such a Endeavor..   This is the PRICE to pay for Bottling It and NOT having the Balls to go....

NOPE the Prequels are NOT going to be a ALIEN Movie.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

SuperAlien

Jul-06-2020 1:13 PM

dk Alien is not popular among the morons who enjoy the Marvel films. So it makes no sense to try to please them and even blame the victim for being abused.

I feel so sorry for the Alien, and Giger, and Dan O'Bannon and Ridley Scott.

The Alien is now like a poor child, captive in the hands of vicious pedophiles.

Wake up!

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

MonsterZero

Jul-06-2020 1:15 PM

"They could take the Predator if they really want a new monster, but leave the xenomorph alone"

 

I agree. The predator species can fly spaceships and basically dictate the action. xenomorph has to be sought out, stumbled upon, etc..

Predators versus Earth's military works.

Xenomorphs versus Earth's military?!A total Slaughter for the guys and gals with guns.

"Arm the Xenomorph" is my campaign slogan for 2020!!!

 

BigDave

Jul-06-2020 1:33 PM

My Opinion is that i think you have to do another ALIEN Movie.

It does-not have to Directly Tie-In with the Original Franchise.... well NOT as far as LV-426, and i say that because REGARDLESS of WHO/HOW/WHEN the Xenomorph came to be...  I think we should NOT go and Assume the DERELICT was the ONLY ship in the Cosmos that has Eggs!

I think that INDEED you can make a Movie to Introduce the Xenomorph to THOSE who Do-Not know about the Beast or Franchise.... but i think you have to CATER for the ALIEN/ALIENS Fans too because those are the GUYS who you have more Chance of getting to SEE another Movie.

Those NOT so Familiar such as the 15-25 Year Old Generation would SURELY know what the Xenomorph is but they may be more Familiar with it via VIDEO GAMES and COMICS and maybe more so ALIENS and AVP Movies.

So you have to SHOW them the Xenomorph can be MORE than we saw in those Incarnations (Comics and Games) I think the PROBLEM is that the Portrayal in ALIEN and ALIEN 3 would just NOT Scare people anymore.. be it those who have NEVER seen them.. or those who have Over and Over.

Now POPCORN Action can always SELL... it dont have to be Scary when its AWESOME and Cool!  But i think that BEYOND the Scares of ALIEN back in the day... there was MORE to the Xenomorph than the Scares...

I think that having them as merely Space Termites is also NOT the best way to make them GREAT to a New Generation.

So i think in PART you have to Discover a Place where we have the Eggs, have a more Vanilla Xenomorph.  You then TRY and Balance between a ALIEN and ALIENS... not too much Action, but still Fair Share (Alien R had enough Action).

I think then you have to look to EVOLVE the Beast, be that in the New Movie or its Sequel at least.  By Evolve i mean just as i said with Planet of the Apes!

A) You have a World where the Xenomorph has been on for MANY YEARS and we see it has Evolved more than we saw it in ALIENS.  Where this Hive was merely Weeks Old!

But this could be a BIT too Close to ALIENS.

B) You have someone Experiment on the Xenomorph that then causes a Evolution to them.

But this could be a BIT too CLOSE to Alien Resurrection.

There is a 3RD Option.... you leave them as they ARE... dont try and Change them too much...

But the World they are Discovered on you LAY the Seeds to OPEN the Door to go and Explore the Engineers.

By Discovering via a Engineer Ship, or a World/Buildings something that can Direct Clues to the Whereabouts of more Engineers...

But this could be like a Prometheus....

so maybe you have to LOOK at a PLOT when the Engineers come to US!... but then HOW you do that with Xenomorphs and NOT go and Conflict with the ALIEN Franchise is Tough!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Jul-06-2020 1:34 PM

daliens The fact is that Marvel has it and I am trying to be open minded and optimistic. My complaints will make no difference. I know plenty of younger people who, when asked, remember their dads mentioning the movie but never saw it- then proceed to yammer about The Avengers and the umpteenth Spider Man movie . Marvel needs to get their attention. Even then, if that demographic sees it, they might think the Xeno looks like Venom lol. 

BigDave

Jul-06-2020 3:19 PM

You DONT have to return to LV-426, you DONT have to go to the Time-Line of Alien ==> Aliens to re-introduce the Xenomorph.

I dont think you have to RETCON anything either.

It seems the STUDIO had and are Running Out of Ideas and maybe likely to PANIC... due to the Prequels.

They Gave us a Movie that will BEGIN to link to ALIEN and bring back the Xenomorph.... and that NEVER pleased a lot.

So its OK so the Xenomorph does-not work without Ripley and Queen and so they would LIKELY give us a Walter Hill/David Giler lets make Alien 3 and Alien R a Dream or what about Aliens too?

I think you can have another MOVIE and have this Movie be able to be OPEN so that it does Uplift some of the Prequels but without giving nothing away from what would HAPPEN after Alien Covenant.

The COSMOS is Huge!

There is a Period of Two Hundred Years between Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection you could Wonder to WHERE that Humans have Traveled to say between 2230-2330

Regardless of HOW/WHEN the Eggs got onto the Derelict i think we cant RULE OUT that this was NOT the only Ship loaded with the Cargo.

Regarding any Cross-Overs.. by Marvel... i think that should be KEPT to the Comics.... then some Fans who are NOT so Familiar with the Xenomorph could look at NONE Cross Over Comics of the Past and that could maybe lead them to watch ALIEN and ALIENS if they have NOT already done so.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Jul-06-2020 6:55 PM

I always thought it was implied that LV-426, the hive and Derelict were all destroyed in Aliens anyway. They felt the explosion shocks up in space. LV-426 is gone.

Marvel could start with comics and if there is enough excitement, then go to either a movie or streaming series. 

Leto

Jul-07-2020 3:03 AM

Alien - slasher.
Aliens - action.
Alien 3 - awkward repeat of slasher.
Alien: Ressurection - awkward repeat of action.
Prometheus - idk about genre. It's not a slasher or action. Adventure? Detective? The closest analogy is At the Mountains of Madness (ATMOM). Exploration/discovery horror. I think this is the best way for the franchise.
Alien: Covenant - repeat of action. But with Neomorphs instead of Queen. And David instead of Newt. xDDDD

 

So, the best formula is Prometheus/ATMOM. But with some improvements:

1) The story should be natural-scientific. That is - the focus should be not on theories and philosophy, but on the study of alien (no only xeno) species and technologies.

2) The environment should not be "generic". Something exotic, strange and unusual is needed. Something that catches the eye.

3) Enough dead planets. It needs a complete world with its own ecosystem and biome. It can have xeno that don't even participate in the plot! They can take one or two people. But the main plot will be around another threat. It may have engineers and even their city/research complex (not for bio-weapons). They will not be aggressive towards people. A dialogue is possible.

4) The scenario must be honest. Without trying to catch the viewer on a hook and milk in unrealizable sequels. If it is impossible to tell everything in one film, then split it into two parts. Like Dune 2020. But without - maybe sequel or maybe not, maybe after 2 years or maybe 10.

BigDave

Jul-07-2020 5:13 AM

"I always thought it was implied that LV-426, the hive and Derelict were all destroyed"

Yeah i agree with that but that does-not mean they could EXPLORE the Derelict again.... However i think its SAFE to assume the company could NOT locate any Specimens anywhere at some point prior to 2370's hence the Cloning of Ripley.  But that does-not mean they could NOT go back to the Derelict but surely what ever would Happen would again lead to a Eventual Loss/Destruction of the Organism.

I think a LOT is restricted due to the Unfinished Prequels and so if you EXPLORED another Movie you have to be Careful what you do, UNLESS those in Charge have a IDEA for the Eventual Answers to the Eggs on LV-426

I know some would like to see a Conclusion but then some would NOT, unless we Totally Tone down the Role that David has and Conclude that he COULD-NOT have Created the Xenomorph.

Its a Case that the ROLE and Mystique of the Xenomorph has become Second Fiddle to the THEMES that were Introduced in Prometheus.  The Arc of David the Creator does FIT in Perfectly with these Themes.

Only that so WOULD having David had Created something Different...   the BOTTOM LINE is the Studio was STUPID to Cave in and think its GOOD to introduce the Xenomorph into the Plot they was going for!

I think that ONLY doing Damage Control is the BEST way to clear up the Prequel Mess.... by that you have the Engineers or Related Species take what David has STARTED and Evolve it to what we got in ALIEN.

This for the MOST PART would maybe require a Shelving of WHAT KIND OF  WORLD that David would Create... much like the Plot of WHAT WILL our Dr Shaw discover in search of her Answers.

I think maybe a Conclusion or the First Part would be better covered in a NOVEL... Eventually.   Because i think DISNEY would mainly want to get from Alien Covenant ===> Alien in as Quick a way as Possible...

This would mean a LOT of what maybe RS had planned would have to be WIPED UNDER THE CARPET. Or we have a more SIMPLE PLOT where David would go to merely be interested in TURNING the Colonist into Eggs.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jul-07-2020 5:25 AM

@Leto

Certainly Prometheus was kind of like  ATMOM the Prometheus Plot did OPEN UP a whole Cosmos of Possibilities.

I think the AIM was to show that the Xenomorph was only a SMALL part of the Engineers History.  To actually go into become a Spin Off Franchise that is NOT a ALIEN one. 

I have said it before i think THEY should have done a Different Sequel to ALIEN that could CLOSE the Door to ALIEN.   Then Davids Great Fingering, Flute Playing Adventure could have been more EPIC and NOT have any Impact on WHO had Created the Xenomorph.

so while i AGREE with the ideas you put down, because Potentially then YES there are MANY worlds the Engineers have Visited, that they are on, and that they have Creations on and their are more Horrors than merely Xenomorphs.

Would such a Venture to some Constitute a ALIEN Movie it it does not be about the Xenomorph?  And if you introduce a Xenomorph in such a Movie then i think some may Question to WHERE did these come from...

The Best Answer would be to GIVE not a single indication to WHEN the Xenomorph got there.... Not UNLESS the Prequels are Concluded with a Definite Origin Answered.

Thats NOT to discredit any Ideas you placed down... because i AGREE that with the Engineers Plot we have GALAXIES of Worlds they have Interacted with and WHO knows How Many Creations and Horrors they have Unleashed.

Some LAUGHED when RS said he Felt that the ALIEN Franchise could be like Star Trek or Star Wars!  Who knows Exactly what he meant?

What those Franchises where was GREAT Interstellar Adventures thanks to the MANY Races and Conflicts because of the MANY Races and Worlds...  

The Engineers Plot Certainly OPENS that up for the Franchise ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jul-07-2020 5:27 AM

Double Post!

So i will Replace by adding that indeed LETO ;)

Space Exploration and WHAT kinds of Worlds you could Discover are something that you could ADD to the Franchise.

I am thinking we need to be getting some Fans to look PAST that ALIEN means a Franchise about Eggs, Queens and Ripley.

Remember that the Marines wondered if LV-426 would be another BUG HUNT!  Maybe this implies they have Encountered other Hostile Life in the Cosmos before?  Just NOT quite like the Xenomorph.

Remember the Arcturian Poontang this could imply that Mankind has Encountered other somewhat Humanoid Species before.

ALIENS was maybe still in the Infancy of Space Travel... as far as to the LEVEL the Engineers had.  So indeed 50, 75, 100, 150 Years after ALIENS then who knows to HOW DEEP in our Galaxy Mankind has Ventured and WHAT WORLDS they would Discover!

The above shows the Confines of the Franchise as seen Theatrically  and the Engineers would surely had Access to ANYWHERE in our Galaxy....

Humans, the Earth are Bound to NOT be the only Places they conducted their Purpose.  LV-223 is maybe NOT the only Place they Stored Horrors.

Its a case of IF those at Disney would Consider that a ALIEN Movie has to be about the Xenomorph and would MANY Fans be willing to go on a Journey to other THINGS?

Sign me UP ;) as this is what got me SO interested in Prometheus and its Plot and Disappointed with Alien Covenant.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Jul-08-2020 9:07 AM

LOL! I see what you did there BD. :D

I am almost at the point where I say throw the prequels into the trash and forget that they were ever made. Two movies and they have not been able to make enough characters worth a damn and also they have made it into a dumb robot tale. I am very hesitant that they will make it all good with a third movie even though it is not impossible. Now if they should make a third prequel they should change it so David did not create the Xeno then the worst damage has been undone even though we could still get mediocre characters. Having the David-Xeno connection is the worst thing with Covenant so if they will undo that I would feel better about the prequels even though I would not like them very much. A third movie should have far less David if they will go on with the prequels otherwise no thanks.

"I dont think we have had a GOOD Movie since 1986. . ."  

Someone *cough cough* forgot about Alien 3 (I am mainly talking about the Assembly cut). ;) Those after 3 have been decent at best

"Can the ALIEN Franchise be made GREAT AGAIN?"

Not as long as Scott is involved in the writing or rather as long as they can not get someone that can write and that knows the importance of good characters. Perhaps it is about the editing too? I listened to Perfect Organism Podcast and there they discussed AC, they claimed that there were scenes in a fan edition that made the characters better but that were left out in the theatrical release. Since I do not know much about it since I have not watched it I say if they got to cut movies then leave the character parts in and cut other things.

Eventually it is about what you find important, no plot points or beautiful surroundings can replace the importance of character. They could have cut a lot of the android things and replaced it with human character moments, maybe I would have appreciated the movie more then even though it would not be perfect.

Make sure what people are currently afraid of, maybe creatures or diseases tied to global warming maybe? Greedy corporations is another theme, start with WY and go from there. Look what people are really afraid of, maybe that has changed since Alien first came around.

"I think the Franchise Theatrically has LOST its GREATNESS."

Yeah maybe, thanks Scott and Fox for messing it up. ;) I am not really a fan of having him involved in another Alien one. At least we have the first three movies.

Having David as a middle man of the creation of the monster is better than to have him being the creator of the final creature. My choice would be that 1. the Engineers found something and experimented on it, 2. David then makes his version and then 3.the Engineers takes his thing and make what we see in 1979. Even though this is not perfect it is better than what Scott and Fox plans or planned.

". . . i cant see a LOT of Fans wishing to go on another Davids Journey/Story."

I am just rolling my eyes on that story, boorrinng. Hopefully people would boycott such a movie because it deserves that, the bar has been set so low if they think that is what makes a good one who ever is responsible for making it. Maybe you could kill him off early in the movie to compensate for Covenant. Blow him up, decapitate him using a chainsaw, set him on fire. Holy crap I feel creative. ;)

BigDave

Jul-09-2020 6:39 AM

JUDGING by the Varied Replies here it shows the RANGE of what People Like/Dislike and would LIKE to see or NOT see.

The Prequels Certainly have been Divisive and YET they opened up a LOT to expand on BEYOND just Eggs and WHO laid them.

@Thoughts_Dreams

I do think that lot of EMPHASIS was on David, it seems the Prequels have Moved to be about HIM, where everything ELSE seemed to be Secondary.

I think the Arc does FIT with the THEMES of what Prometheus was trying to SHOW.  However it comes at the COST of Character Development.

For the MOST PART then the FIRST 3 Movies had Good Characters and Execution, but we SADLY have not seen that SINCE.... well NOT enough.

ALIEN 3 was Flawed, i dont think its Great, i Certainly think its above Average.   I think for some it was a Wasted Opportunity to NOT go and Carry On with Hicks and Newt.  But you can see WHY this had to happen.

I think in Context to FINDING the Greatness again... then its HARD because a LOT of that Greatness came from something NEW and UNKNOWN.

The Problem you have when doing a Franchise that REVOLVES around a SINGLE Monster is that IF this Monster has no Communication or Emotion then it is the STORY and Exposure to the THREAT that has to give the Monster its LEGS... this requires Good Characters.

The Xenomorph to me comes across like a Space Jason Voorhees (ALIEN and ALIEN 3) and with ALIENS then some Intelligent Space Termite.  I think you have MORE of a Millage out of the Xenomorph than JASON though, but my point being the MORE you see the MONSTER and the MORE the MONSTER just Repeats what it does... then it does-not have the same EFFECT.

This is WHERE you then have to EXPAND on a Story that gives more BACKGROUND to the Monster, while also with this Good Characters will PROP up the Monster... Poor Story Evolution and Characters and it FALLS on its Face.

With the ALIEN Franchise then it seems the BACKGROUND to try and RAISE the Xenomorph comes down to Exploring the WHO Created it and WHY and WHAT the Company would intend to DO with the Xenomorph.

The PROBLEM with Prometheus was that it Decided to TONE down such things and NOT to Directly involve the Xenomorph or give SOLID Clues....  But there was enough their to BUILD UPON and Explore in Future.

It was having to ACCEPT we are NOT getting a Literal Prequel that would Connect, but OPEN UP more Horrors that we can draw some Familiarity with.

The BIGGEST PROBLEM was with the Sequel then at some point we got a U-TURN to actually give us a Literal Prequel while TRYING to Carry Over some of the THEMES from Prometheus which CONCLUDED with the Decision to make DAVID as the Creator... 

This comes at the COST of throwing away other Plots that could have been Developed to SOLELY place this as a Davids Journey.... which i think came at the COST of Undeveloped Characters to UPLIFT the Story.

The Creator of the Xenomorph Plot surely should have been something that THEY would have known would have UPSET the Fanbase... but it seems that to RS that for him the Xenomorph was the PAST... and so WHILE they Changed the PLOT to BRING the Xenomorph Back... it seems RS felt that having David be the Creator would UPLIFT his Characters Role in the Franchise.

At the ULTIMATE COST of making the Xenomorph become a Lessor Footnote and taking AWAY the Unknown and Enigma of the MONSTER.

So THIS does make the Xenomorph become something LESS of a Enigma and this could EFFECT the Xenomorph in Future.

UNLESS they explore ways to UPLIFT the Beast beyond HOW is was Portrayed in the Franchise.

I think that Damage Control that David had merely STARTED a Project that the Engineers (or other Species) then EVOLVES to that Cargo on LV-426 is a WAY to BOTH restore the Origins of the Xenomorph to connected with a ALIEN Species, while also NOT Totally throwing out the Arc/Role that David had played.

The PROBLEM with a Continuation is if its seen as Financially Viable..... 

The Problem with making a NEW Franchise Movie is IF the Eventual Movie would just STICK to and PLAY it SAFE!

There is MORE to the Franchise than Ripley and Eggs and so you would HAVE to try and introduce the Xenomorph but do so in a way you can EXPLORE other things down the Line!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Leto

Jul-10-2020 7:00 AM

I don’t think that deep character development means: "The character behaves logically".

You can have a Shakespeare level in Alien. But if the script says - "A person licks the ovomorph". Then the deep quality of character will not save. At first glance, poor character development in Prometheus & AC is simply a consequence of observing the behavior of the characters in "special cases."

Millburn & Fifield were mediocre written supporting characters. Their role was to become victims. But it was served very rudely.

Same with Charlie & others. No matter how well written the characters are, when they scream YEEHAW, and rip off their helmets!

Same with Oram. Personally, I think this is a well-written character. At least, he is written better than Daniels (!!!). But then he just takes his head and puts it in the egg.

The problem is not the quality of the characters. But that they are forced to do stupid things.

Prometheus & AC have different screenwriters. And the fact that in both films the characters commit the same nonsense indicates that this is someone else's idea. Yes - we know whose idea it is! And I'm more than sure that if RS shoots a third film, the characters will do the same nonsense. Perhaps the maestro is trying to give us some kind of revelation?

MonsterZero

Jul-10-2020 7:52 AM

Also, What's the point of having Earth in the story?

They might as well destroy it and leave how it was destroyed a mystery.

Set Alien 5 in the year 2533 where Earth is gone(destroyed), the tribes of Earth are scattered and are every bit as dangerous as the xeno.

Smith "Look Earth is gone, there's no going back!"

Jones "I'm not talking about Earth! More about Mars, the Sol system itself..Find some stuf.."

Smith "That system has been picked clean...there's nothing left..Nothing but khemfreaks and burners.."

 

Jones showed her his tattered hat, it was embroidered with a Weyland Corporation logo.

Jones “It’s real and from the twenty-first century!” , he boasted.

Smith grabbed it and shoved it in his face.

Jones “Hey!”

Smith “These bastards are the ones who started all this..” She attempted to tear it in two, failing to do so, she tossed it on the ground, stepping on it.

A shocked Jones retrieved his hat, knocking the dust from it. He didn’t care if Weyland Corp had gotten everybody on Earth killed, it was still a cool souvenir.

 

Leto

Jul-10-2020 9:15 AM

MonsterZero

This is the way! In fact, it’s better than cooking the franchise in the swamp of prequels.

But I would remove one zero from 5200 > 520. Blaming WY after 5200 years - it's like complaining about Cheops. In addition, the hat will decompose much earlier. xDDD

MonsterZero

Jul-10-2020 1:41 PM

@Leto

Thanks! I changed it.

Need the history of khemfreaks....

 

 

BURNERS : An alien race...precursor to the Space Jockey. They burn their victims, then inhale the corpse(s) gases. Hence the Burners gas mask look.

 

 

BlackAnt

Jul-11-2020 2:45 AM

WELL WELL WELL…….

What do we have here Alien fans???

Which came first the Xeno or the egg? Hummm? Ahhhhhhhh? Interesting! Intriguing! Spelling binding questions we have been wanting to know the answer to for so many years.

I have got it! But first we must address some of the previous comments……

BigDave said,  (What hasn’t BigDave said but I digress LOL)

Cough cough LOL where were we.

“JUDGING by the Varied Replies here it shows the RANGE of what People Like/Dislike and would LIKE to see or NOT see.

"The Prequels Certainly have been Divisive and YET they
opened up a LOT to expand on BEYOND just Eggs and
WHO laid them."

Very interesting question indeed BigDave but we know what BigDave really means.

 

People we keep going round and round with this same conversation and you all know where it is getting us all...please refer to this instructional video to understand more.

@Leto

Responding to-----> MonsterZero,

“This is the way! In fact, it’s better than cooking the franchise in the swamp of prequels.

Indeed yes! I’m sorry and I thought we were all getting somewhere with all of this by now.
Sorry Leto and MonsterZero this entire franchise is way overcooked already.

No the sad sad truth is we are not getting anywhere with any of this….we do know a person, that I do not even like to mention out loud in these sacred forums, that gave the insane idea to RS while making Prometheus that the “EGGS” we see in the Juggernaut in Alien is the result of David’s experimentation with the black goo and human dna.

This is where I start crying too Alien fans because in the next prequel David is supposed to show us how he will perfect the Queen Xenomorph so we can all see what lays those eggs in the Juggernaut in Alien also making what we see in Aliens possible as WELL......

And there you have it what came first the Xeno or the egg, well neither really David came first if we are all to accept it was Weyland's stupid robots tinkering trifling AI androids messing around with 1 million year old more advanced technologies involving the engineer black goo something or other.

Here is the real story pay attention class!

So the performances I saw in the original Alien movie are spectacular to say the least but do not connect with the other films. Looking more closely at Alien I sense a profound disconnect with the two prequels and perhaps a third prequel yet even to be made.

For me Alien fans the entire David arc is just this awful never ending loop in an episodic story where nothing really makes sense. We are all stuck in this endless loop going nowhere. Why though???...the Nostromo crew sets down on LV-426 to investigate this warning signal picked up by Weyland Corporation from a juggernaut what a surprise!, all while Ash a much more advanced android than David and Walter goes completely bonkers helping the Xenomorph the entire time to infect and kill the crew one by one….I mean I thought you all read special order 937 as well….That is very important because what it all means is a very bad plot contradiction…..you see in all these movies, even in Aliens Bishop says to Ripley “WELL that explains it well the A2’s were always a little bit twitchy that could never happen now with our behavioral inhibitors it is impossible for me to harm a human being yadda yadda yadda!!!……..Ahhh so even after creating David then Walter Weyland Corporation still puts a ridiculously malfunctioning artificial person - Hyperdyne Systems model 120-A/2 AKA – ASH on the Nostromo to infect the crew with what David has created so they can bring it back and study it, YOU ALL READ SPECIAL ORDER 937!!!!!!

Weyland Corp sends some ore mining space truckers to unwittingly get duped by incompetent ASH into exposing themselves to this thing???….HERE IS THE PROBLEM!!! Weyland Corporation already knows this is David’s creation it involves a “Superior species no doubt.” This is why they would have never sent a twitchy AI AKA ASH and some space truckers to go get it……they would have immediately gone there with an even bigger spaceship than Weyland’s research vessel and got what ever was on LV-426 with hundreds of extremely non twitchy sophisticated AI persons that could not be infected and would easily be able to get and control the Xenomorph…..you don’t think Weyland Corporation can’t make military versions of AI robots much faster, stronger, and more powerful than any Xenomorph…..it is also why Prometheus completely sux too…they would have never gone there with only some rifles and hand guns and a few scientists saying yo big dude engineers can you help us out like give us all your secrets....it's all laughable BULLSHITE!!!

HA! ALL LAUGHABLE NONSENSE, and you BigDave you have no excuse you have been defending this loop of senseless nonsense for years…..I digress though we need to save this franchise from all these bad things….I don’t see how yet or if it is even possible.

It is actually even a little more silly when you think about everything happening in real time in Prometheus because as everything is taking place in Prometheus it is being backed up to computers that are more intelligent than David and encrypted all while being sent back to Earth to go to Weyland Corporation’s AI systems…..So nothing really connects well with Alien. We are all stuck in this bad loop of films going so what….and then we lost the connection to all the colonists on LV-426, then Aliens happens and THEN RETCON…….GAME OVER MAN!

Ok so that’s my two cents Alien fans…..let the roasting begin! LOL

 

 

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