Comments (Page 156)

on the Planet LV-222 few construction of Engineers and people don't visit other of Pyramids and there could be the Eggs or other. 

Regarding the SOUND... its left Ambiguous... IT could be a Deacon that is Screaming or it could be a SOUND connected with Activating the Panel.

Regarding Deacons... it is likely that similar had existed/been created in the Past.  The Mural is ambiguous but someone who worked on it had said it was supposed to represent the Deacon.

What we have is the Black Goo in that Complex under Certain Conditions can Create something that is VERY similar to the Organism on the Mural or even that the Urns contain the DNA of the Deacon Organism on the Mural

The Fresco seems to indicate yet ANOTHER kind of Organism, one that in another Image was likely HOLDING a Egg...

This could indicate the Engineers encountered a Organism, they Witnessed its Life-Cycle and they Experimented on it with the Creation Tool (Sacrificial Goo) to Create other Organisms and when Pleased with the Result they Obtain its DNA (likely via Sacrificial Goo) and placed this in the URNS to use to Evolve other Life to take on Traits of the Organisms they had Created.

Back at the time of Prometheus... Ridley Scott had said that the XENOMORPH was a Result of what those Engineers were doing on LV-223, something from those Experiments or Outbreak had EVOLVED...

He indicated that this Happened a within  FEW Hundreds of the OUTBREAK some 2000 years ago, give or take. His comments seem to imply that about 200 Years after the Outbreak something Evolved into the Xenomorph.

He had also claimed the Deacon is a Precursor to the Xenomorph, which i would assume he does-not mean the ONE that was Born from Dr Shaws Alien Fetus. But that similar Deacons had existed Thousands of Years ago.

This has changed with Alien Covenant however.

I think in a NUT-SHELL

Alien Covenant with David could be a Re-telling of LV-223 and those Engineers.

Those Engineers on LV-223 and Sacrificial Engineer could be either Engineers who had Engineered themselves to be like that (seemed to be the case pre Alien Covenant)

This could now be that they are either a Faction who had taken the Creation Tool to Evolve themselves that way, against the WILL of the other Engineers.

Or they are a Engineered Creation like the Replicants are, and they grew FED UP of this and decided to Create something else on LV-223.

At the BASIS of the Black Goo it was Simplistic if they Stuck to what it Evolved from which was Tiny Scarabs (i used to use the term Nano... but thats the Wrong Word as Nano is very very very Tiny). What we had was a TOOL that could take DNA/Traits of a Organism and then PASS that onto others to Create a Hybrid.  But alas they Complicated it during Prometheus Edit Room.

With the IMMORTALITY aspect... i was looking at Jon Spaights pitch which was Alien 01 The Master Narrative which i dont think was ever released, we had some parts of it shown on the Furious Gods Documentary.

This seemed to indicate the Engineers had been like us in the Past, they had made many Advancements, Space Travel, Genetic Engineering, they started to NOT need the things that we do such as how we Socialize, Music, Arts and such wants/needs....  They were able to Evolve themselves to LIVE for Longer... but this was NOT enough, they was looking to TRANSCEND themselves beyond their Physical Form/Limitations..

If we look at Ripley 8 from a Scientific POV as far as what would some Scientist see with her if they Captured her... i think that ONE thing that would interest them was HOW via the Clone Process could she RE-CALL some Memories of Ripley!

You would be thinking that if you SOLVE that Riddle could you find a way to PASS ON your own Memory onto another Clone of yourself?

So i was thinking if there was a Organism that could do this, a Xenomorph Ancestor, then for Engineers who want to LIVE beyond Thousands of Years... that eventually will DIE or can be KILLED.... then if some Organism  could potentially HOLD the secret to PASSING ON the Soul/Memories Genetically that would be something to try and TAKE advantage of and Experiment on.

This is where you could RE-DESIGN the Starbeast.

".the fact that they created us and then want to kill us is stupid plot hole so you have to fill it with something"

Well its touching on THEMES of Creation, Knowledge and Free-will, and David is a Proxy for us, a History thats repeating itself.

If we look at the Bible... if Adam and Eve had not tasted the Forbidden Fruit then Mankind would have been YES SIR, NO SIR.. to GOD... much like Walter is.

David has Free-Will he has Emotions and can be Affected by how he is Treated... with Walter you can INSULT him and he wont Care, he has no Feelings or Free-Will...  With Free-Will you have a David that can Potentially become Sentient and Fail to see WHY he should be considered a Servant of his Creators..

We see that David has become a Danger.... the Right Course of Action would be to DESTROY him and on the Safe Side also get RID of all Synthetics and Advanced A.I so you dont come to the same Problem again!

Similar is what the Engineers did with us, they saw us as a Threat, that we in General will NO longer play by their Rules.  So we have similar Themes at play on Multiple Layers.

It could be Possible those LV-223 Engineers are to Planet 4 as David is to Mankind... well as a Replicant is to Mankind would be more fitting.

Going back to Good vs Evil... it seems the Engineers have Evolved and Enhanced themselves well with Prometheus, but i think regardless its a case of the Engineers have been around for Millions and Millions of Years, they likely would have gone through the Civil Unrest and Wars that Mankind has.

It would seem ODD for a Space Fairing Species to be Confined to just Planet 4 and LV-223 and so there is SCOPE for them to be on MANY Worlds that could be Thousands of Light Years apart.

These Engineers could have been in Conflict, or maybe New Conflict could arise... there are so MANY ways the Plot could be Expanded on, as its so OPEN.

GOING BACK..... to before the Prequels.

You had that Space Jockey... do you SKIP his Story, what is is Story?  He is just Carrying those Eggs but WHY?

Knowing HOW/WHEN is only PART of the Story.

WHY is whats more interesting... and this seems as a WEAPON but the its against WHO?

To then show the Space Jockey as a ALIEN Species that has NOTHING to do with us, and are at Conflict with either a Faction of themselves or another ALIEN Species.

WHEN/IF you take this route, then you have to have a PLOT to show HOW do the Humans come into Contact with the Space Jockey, and ONCE you Discover they are ALIEN in a WAR with other ALIENS... and the Xenomorph they use as a Weapon.

Then its a case of HOW/WHEN and WHERE do you Explore this Conflict and still have Humans involved.

Also HOW do the Humans Communicate with said ALIENS?

Because what you get otherwise is a Independence Day set in a World Far Far away. So the Creators/Engineers Plot was created so that there is a Reason to HOW it is that Humans can stumble upon Places where the Space Jockey are.

The only other OPTION would be Humans either by Chance/Exploration or a SOS Signal end up on LV-426 where there is another ALIVE Space Jockey or a Few at this Time...

You explain HOW those others Disappeared.... and then lead up to Special Order 937.... but then whats NEXT?

Oh Derelict and Eggs that Humans go back to over and over.. well a Few more times.

So the Engineers Plot was there to give a Reason for WHY the Humans could stumble upon something related to the Space Jockey and open up Potential to Expand into a New Area.... a BOLD PLOT..

Maybe ONE that is too Bold to do Justice.

The OT is however about a so called 50 Page ALIEN 5

I cant believe they are still trying to PEDDLE a BRING back Ripley Plot!  Have they got any NEW IDEAS? Seems NOT!

Ripley 8 was a Abomination to some, we need the Gang Back and Queens maybe again! 

From what we know from Blomkamps Alien 5 was that he had a IDEA that did-not involve Ripley but after he had discussed this with Miss Weaver while working on Chappie he had changed it to BRING BACK the Gang!

His Ideas seemed to be a Different Take on the Xenomorph, to a Degree... but bringing Ripley back in a ALIEN 3 had never Happened just seems like a Re-Hash... a MILK the COW.

ONCE... you go that route to Ret-Con something then the Door is OPEN for Disney to Reboot it all over and over and MILK it for all its Worth!

IF they are going to bring back a Ripley... i feel her Story is best Continued with a Ripley 8 Continuation... i feel AR had shown us more Potential in the Xenomorph DNA than Eggs that Pop Out our Face Huggers, that Face Rape a Victim and we get Chest Bursting etc etc.

How do you like your Eggs.... lets stick to Vanilla Sunny Side Up ;)  Well there are more USES for a Egg ;)

Well the Franchise has Changed Movie to Movie, each one had Evolved to something that Fans of the Previous One did-not like, its NOT a case of ALIEN vs ALIENS.

The Direction of ALIENS may have Disappointed some ALIEN fans for others it was a Rightful Sequel.... for some ALIEN 3 was right to bring ALIENS to a End for some they was Disappointed of the KILLING of the Cast and lack of more Monsters...  we then get to Alien Resurrection which again had people who LIKED it and DISLIKED it.

At this POINT.. you was  NEVER going to please everyone and a Prequel is always a Poisoned Chalice as you are NOT going to Please everyone as they had their own Ideas/Thoughts on the Xenomorph and Space Jockey.

I think we cant compare the Franchise to MARVEL... its different... i think with Prometheus or looking at the Space Jockey you could kind of go into Star Wars Territory but you would STRUGGLE to match it.

To go there you have to Expand more than Queen lays Eggs, Silly Space Jockey tried to use them as Weapons and now Silly Humans attempt the same and Fail!

The Franchise has taken Place either in our Solar System or in the Vicinity of Zeta 2 Reticuli (Theatrically) with Prometheus the PLOT of the Engineers could have given us MANY Worlds and Species and MANY kind of Horrors.  And it seems the Engineers are NOT just restricted to our Galaxy.

STAR WARS had taken Place in a Galaxy FAR FAR away and maybe the Humans etc speak English ONLY for our Convenience ;)

If our Engineers are Inter-Galactic Creators who have been Traveling the STARS for Millions of Years, then is the EARTH the only Place that has Humans they had Created?

So YES there was SCOPE.....

I think we deseeve at least one film that explains what the engineers from planet 4 and LV223 were doing, what is the black goo, where did it come from, how long the engineers knew about the xenomorphs for.

Holloway said: "This is just another tomb" when he enterred the controlled atmosphere room or the "head room". The urns with the black goo ampoules were probably inspired by funerary urns or by the ancient egyptians canopic jars, they must have contained xenomorph "remains".

Good Points which have been Raised before ;)

ALIEN had left some Ambiguity with our Space Jockey as far as its LEGS.. or lack of.  And indeed the Head does look more like a SKULL with a Mummified Tongue and Teeth compared to the Engineer Suits.

But the rest of the Space Jockey does-not look so Skeletal.

The Intention was 15ft Engineers, but RS did-not want to use Effects etc... The Aesthetic of the Suits and Ship where changed a bit to be LESS ORGANIC too...

Which causes some Conflict which leaves some Ambiguity which leaves ROOM for Change.

So YES they could introduce another Species as the Space Jockey ;)

With David/Walter i think what we have is either

a) David steals Walters Clothes and Cuts himself etc to look like Walter, he looks back to either see if Walter has recovered to Chase him or he knows a Xenomorph is on its way.

b) David uploads himself into Walters Body, in which case the ONLY reason he would be looking back was because of the Xenomorph.

Regarding the CODES...

Well this is a Mystery of Sorts.... are all Ships secretly embedded with Secret CODES of David, had he had a Master Plan to Hack the Companies A.I before Prometheus so he can Control all their Systems?

Could MUTHUR just be Voice Activated and FOOLED by David and then David could PROGRAM some Secret Codes.

Could David be in Walters Body and then have Access to the CODES and then be able to PROGRAM his own CODES?

Could David had Accessed Walters A.I to gain his CODES?

All of these are Options.

Regarding the Xenomorph on the Covenant, this came from Sgt Lope;)

Thus giving more Reason for the Engineers and Experiments than  just to TRY and Create the ULTIMATE KILLING MACHINE.

That's a very interesting twist, BigDave.

It gives a whole religious meaning to the crucified xeno mural from Prometheus and it could turn the base from LV223 from a military facility, to a scientific research for immortality. That would explain why the engineers from LV223 were different from the ones from planet 4, sort of xeno-engineer hybrids, like Ripley 8. And why they were so highly regarded by the ones on planet 4, they knew the path to immortality.

The black goo was the key, but if not strictly controlled it could wreak havoc. This is why the urns were in a controlled atmosphere room and the engineers were so terrified about it. It was the key to immortality, but also the death of all meat if out of comtrol.

@BlackAnt

Thank you ;)

Indeed i think this is what RS was looking at, going the Queen, Egg, Face Hugger, Chest Buster and then Xenomorph route over and over without Changing (Evolving) it a bit or giving more of a Back Story to UPLIFT the Xenomorph beyond being Space Ants/Rats... will eventually run out of IDEAS and Cremate the Beast.

In Hindsight the Prequels should have given more Respect to the Xenomorph... but even ALIEN ENGINEERS had merely indicated that they are just a Variant of a Bio-Weapon the Engineers where using and after that PLOT the only thing Different to Explore would be WHY the Engineers did this, WHAT/WHEN was it that they Discovered a Organism they had used for the BASIS of their Experiments and WHERE did they obtain their CREATION TOOL (Black Goo/Scarabs).

Then with the Engineers there was more to them than just Creating stuff to KILL.

In Hindsight... maybe the Prequels (which inc Spaights ideas) should have Elevated the Xenomorph more... some Fans suspected that (some still do now) the Xenomorph is the BASIS of the Engineers Black Goo and Bio-Mechanical Technology.

Unfortunately that SHIP has Sailed and it did-so even with Alien Engineers/Genesis.

In Hindsight with Prometheus the Connection was a bit Vague and it never had any real Xenomorph like moments as far as Attacking... Alien Covenant did... we had Neomorph and Xenomorph... in Prometheus the Equivalent we had was Space Cobra Face Rape and Toxic Avenger Fifield going POSTAL!

Now in Alien Engineers these Scenes we could see more of a Connection to the Xenomorph.... but ALAS.

With Alien Covenant the David as Creator Path does FIT with the Themes of Prometheus... but what could have FITTED just as much was David had Created something similar...

SAY THIS...

Again as with Davids Workshop and Drawings we see his Progress to this... he goes to CLAIM he has Perfected what the Engineers had attempted.

We show his Creation goes and Egg Morphs its Victims and from these we get Smaller Versions that Hatch (like the Gremlins do) and thus we BY-PASS the Queen and Face Hugger.

David has Created a potentially Superior Version.

THIS would give Clues to maybe HOW the ORIGINAL Xenomorph was Created..  The Prequels would CONCLUDE with David's Xenomorph/Creation being Eradicated and LV-223 but that one of the Engineers Attempts was Stranded on LV-426 and has Potential for Research and Re-Engineering and so Special Order 937 comes from this.

But again ALAS.

"What came first the xeno or the egg?"

A Question of which the Answer has changed over time ;)

Some Fans would have expected the Queen or unknown so we have the Chicken or Egg Question.

Seemed RS had settled on a Engineered Result so then its case of the Chicken, but then the Chicken could have came from a previous Organisms Eggs (via Experiments).

With Alien Covenant then its seems its Dr Shaw's Eggs. (well Egg Cells).

With Regards to the Immortality i was looking at it as a Pseudo by which i mean (KIND OF) yes we are talking Sci-Fi which really means its NOT REAL ;)

I can see the point about how with Prometheus we did-not see anything to suggest Immortality but it seemed to be a Set-Up of Sorts.... Ridley Scott said that Prometheus (in Part) was about IMMORTALITY and to ask where do we go when we Die.... which INDEED the Movie Never Answered....

It was a little about Faith and it was Ambiguous to give or not give any Answers, so its down to Interpretation in which i saw a Man of Science, Faced with Death had turned to the Findings of Dr Shaw and Holloway in that they are RIGHT regarding our Creators and that THEY could give him more Life.... when he DIED he said there is NOTHING.. which David wished him a Journey which is to indicate that Weyland would NOW get to know if there IS or IS NOT any After-Life.

I think the BIGGER set up was as Weyland said... David does-not have a SOUL and its then to Determine what is a SOUL if its the Spiritual Existence in Heaven when we DIE as Dr Shaw would believe then INDEED our David has NO SOUL... but then does Mankind Possess this? Do the Engineers?  It never showed us either way... i dont think it was about showing us a Heaven/Paradise.

However if a SOUL is a Collection of Memories, Experiences, that can SHAPE the kind of Person we are... Good Soul or Bad Soul then with David he could be Shaped by his Experiences and Upbringing and Treatment.  He has Memories and Experiences.

He does-not DIE... merely his Body can Fail/Be Destroyed, but his Memories/Experiences could be RECOVERED and Transferred to a NEW Body... in Essence giving him a After-Life and Resurrection.

If his A.I Brain/Storage is Destroyed then he is DEAD, but a A.I could have Back Ups that are SAVED and if these are Transferred then he again has a KIND OF like Immortality to a degree hence i said Pseudo but again it may be a Problem with me that i sometimes USE the Wrong Word, so what i really mean and should say is KIND OF.

So when i look at the Pitch that Jon Spaights had made for the Prequels, (Alien 01 The Master Narrative) it seemed the Engineers were NOT content with Extending their Lives they wanted to Transcend.. so it was like they wanted to TRY and gain a After-Life/Immortality.

Now if we look at the Movie The 6th Day then we have Scientist who can take a SNAP SHOT of our Memories, Experiences and Emotions and then UPLOAD these to a CLONED Body and thus give us a KIND OF (Pseudo i would have used but again thats maybe a Incorrect use) Immortality.

Now with David he Potentially would have what we see in The 6th Day, but it seems the Engineers never really achieved such a Feat!

What i was thinking is via the Xenomorph DNA we saw that Ripley 8 was able to gain some of Ripleys Memories, a kind of Genetic Memory Transfer we have to ASSUME that this was via Virtue of the Xenomorph DNA.

So the Xenomorph DNA must have held the KEY for how she was able to Re-Call some of the Memories of Ripley.

So WHAT i was thinking is that if the Progenitor to what becomes the Xenomorph was some Organism or something that also allowed for GENETIC MEMORY transfer, then such a Organism would be something that the Engineers would be Interested in Experimenting with to ATTEMPT to Unlock this and USE this so the Engineers could PASS ON their Genetic Memory/SOUL.

Thus giving more Reason for the Engineers and Experiments than  just to TRY and Create the ULTIMATE KILLING MACHINE.

We could then Explore the Organism that they Experimented on this and this Organism/Species is where we could introduce the UNUSED elements of STARBEAST.

But maybe we best keep it SIMPLE... and reveal that there are these Organisms that have Queens that LAY some Eggs that you could use to KILL STUFF... but the Engineers Screwed it up and Humans do so in trying to obtain it too.

In which case the PREDATORS made the BEST USE of the Xenomorph as the Ultimate HUNT.

If we only STICK to a ALIENS/AVP then its a case of HOW MANY times can we go there before its runs out of GAS?

Hey BlackAnt, to quote from the memory, when one note is off, it eventually destroys the whole symphony.

Maybe you should accept this franchise is not meeting you expectations and leave it alone, get back to Marvel, where all the fun is.

I don't understand this. We have been here for years. Now how many ways do you want me to explain the same story.

Everyone else, "Now you all freely admit to making these terrible terrible awful films and there by destroying this entire franchise. A rather expensive movie franchise that took 40 years to ruin. About 1 billion lost in adjusted dollars in ticket sales that is minus marketing of course. The majority of critics around the world corroborates the majority of how bad these films are after Aliens. For reasons unknown these movies became just horrible after they set down on LV-426 in prequels. The movies tried to resume their course by rebooting the franchise and were largely unsuccessful and these movies were self destructed by the studio's and audiences for reasons unknown!"

Not for reasons unknown! We set out to make good movies on company orders to get a good movie produced. Which eventually destroyed audiences approval of these films world wide and your expensive franchise.

Everyone else, "The fans found no evidence of any bad movies produced only worthless praise of any garbage that was produced by these studios."

Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away! I already said these movies after Aliens are complete garbage and are not considered cannon by the original people involved in their productions that made the first two films. Do you get it. These films after Aliens are garbage. We kept making these horrible films that ruined the entire franchise.

Everyone else, "We never saw or recorded any bad films in this franchise...we love everything ever put onto film and it's all wonderful and it's these films that consistently lose money and have nothing but failure at the box office we like even more as its fan base. These are the words of our dull masses and the people unable to really critique films of any real quality correctly."

That's right look I can see where this is going. But! I am telling you that these horrible bad films exist...and if another one gets made...please you are not listening to me...Audience members went into these films and said they had terrible cinematic experiences in the millions! MILLIONS of paying customers!

Everyone else, "Thank you that will be all!"

God DMN! IT THATS NOT ALL BECAUSE IF ONE MORE OF THESE BAD SCRIPTS GETS PRODUCED DOWN HERE - WRITTEN OR ANOTHER HORRIBLE REBOOT YOU CAN KISS THIS ENTIRE FRANCHISE GOOD BYE FOR GOOD. All this fanboy BS you all consider so important you can just kiss all that goodbye!

 I have the feeling that Space Jockey is a different genre than engineers. the engineers only imitate him with their suits. you can see in Prometheus that the helmet is of biological origin because of the sagittal suture and inside you can see blood vessels. and space jockey has a mouthpiece and a tongue. for breathing on a tube connected to the chest and bones, they are withered. his arms are very long and you can see that he has no legs but the abdomen connected to the armchair. a very old being who would have to live forever had to be connected to a chair like a respirator. the creature must have been lying there dead for thousands or millions of years. only the ship and armchair are the same as those of the engineers but RS said they didn't have such a tall actor to play a 5 meter giant. and the explanation that this is a suit because it was impossible to play such a huge humanoid and inventing engineers is very cheap and fast. they are recording movies with dinosaurs and Godzilla and Space Jockey couldn't. maybe it's really a different species, God, an ancestor of engineers.

What about dating? what about the dilatation of time if they flew to the lV and 4 planets at speeds above the speed of light, how many years have passed on earth at that time? a few thousand or millions and if the harvest engineers were to arrive on earth 2000 years ago, if they had flown, they would have arrived in film time, not 2000 years ago. so if Prometheus took off then a dozen generations of people to earth will not get an answer from him or return to see their one man in life.

Hey guys! In 40:40 Prometheus movie, hear crying monster, Deacon? Did deacons or other monsters lived on LV-223 at This time? Inside pyramide see paintings on ceiling on the Engineer faithing with beast and the alien egg with claws. Od David created Eggs and xenomorphs why on paintings they are? The beast defeated by engineer Has combinesone like engineer in armchair on vessel and head and hands modified to beast. This is grandpa od all of beast from Alien serie?

As far as I remember, once upon a time, Ridley talked about Space Jockey and that he might have participated in a civil war. I emphasize - civil. And when you consider that in Prometheus and Covenant have been used some old ideas, then the idea of civil war of different fractions of engineers may take place. Who knows - maybe in the third movie?

I also remember an example about the language of engineers as: They (people, David) learned Spanish, and met with the Portuguese. Which means they arrived at the wrong place. Or in the right one, but this place was already captured by another, hostile faction. And so it may be that David arrived on the home planet of the “good” faction.

Walter stopped escape from David's lab on planet 4 and propably change him mind and took David thinking. they came back took the facehugger Eggs and escape. Look at movirle he don't run away but after one minute. He stay, turned to back, thinking. And runing from Building after minute and after Daniels turn on navigation lamp. Why he used David's code to open Hall with colonists? He thinking that he became David ? Where he gone? To Origae 6 like he said by radio? He said now him code. The Convenant ship became David ship. And ship have to be programmed to David too and system knew David's code. At the end part od movie, Mother of ship have inspection. Walter can change something in system. And how alien came to ship when Daniels killed him by excavator arm? We see, that alien borned from woman, and she staying all time on mothers ship. So and how she was impregnated by facehugger?

"epic space wars"

I agree with this. Xeno's are a passive species...mess with them and you'll feel their bite...But they aren't going to invade Earth....not going to see the headlines: "100 million dead in latest Xeno attack!!"

 Really it's twisted and difficult to understand. When Shaw met Weyland, saud that their aren't US creators and we was wrong. They want to destroy us. Why the Engineers from LV223 escaping and were poisoned by Black goo and they died? 

Alien isolation :

Short version: This game is really close to perfect but held back by a few minor things.

Long version: I absolutely loved this game. I play a lot of horror games and very few have ever kept me in a constant state of tension like this one. I really enjoyed that they made it true to the aesthetic of the first movie.

Literally the only complaints I had were the story/ending and the length.

As far as the story goes, I just didn't really care about most of the characters or their motivations, and everything could have been more fleshed out. I will say this did provide a benefit in that I was so immersed in the gameplay that the story I was playing was that I myself was trying to escape this nightmare, which actually may have helped in terms of the suspense I felt. The ending was so abrupt and anticlimactic after 30 hours of fighting tooth and nail to survive.

I also think the game was way longer than it should have been. A few of the mechanics ended up getting stale, and since I was so tense the whole time it was honestly kind of exhausting towards the end. Rarely do I complain about being given too much game, but I think the experience would have been better in a tighter more concise package.

Even with those complaints, it's one of the best horror games I've ever played.

Alien universe is not for epic space wars, there are enough epic films that make a lot of money from the same crapy superficial super heroes super special effects Marvel recipe, so watch those if you prefer that style.

So you even admit his last films did not perform well.

What the unwashed masses desire and I are two different matters! :-)

"But making David the creator of the Alien was the last straw for me! "

But what origin would make everybody happy?  (A mysterious and unsolved origin is always going to be my favorite choice.)

When ALIENS came out, I realized they were just space bugs and not something to fear, just send the marines in with some nukes and clean them out.

So the eggs and the xeno are pretty far down on my list...so I'm really fine with David or some alien scientist creating them in a lab.

Black goo and the spores are light years ahead of the eggs IMHO.

What came first the xeno or the egg?

That was crazy reading all the back and forth and forth replies.....THE EGGS THE EGGS HATCHED INTO CHICKENS with the rest of this chicken sh!t franchise and got cooked!

We need something new something fresh...the egg omelet and face huggers popping out with a side of Xenomorphs is dead too and cooked. The beast is cooked.

This franchise needed to evolve...BigDave I liked all your ideas way back in the day when you thought we should explore a tv show about the Weyland-Yutani corporation.

If we can find a segway into the larger domain of the engineers from the tv show great! But making David the creator of the Alien was the last straw for me! NOPE not even gonna go there. The plot holes they created are so big you could fit the planet through them like a yo yo bouncing back and forth...good luck cause no one can put this Alien franchise back together...and Disney let them go right ahead and do it. Most likely knowing the films would do poorly at the box office so they could buy the franchise cheaper down the road, which they did.

Bad performance =/= bad film. This is solid sci-fi with monsters.

And when you talk about large-scale films, I hope you understand that a lot of money will also be needed for this. So the film should pay off at the box office. R-movies with a big budget are very, very risky. Therefore, in order to increase the audience, you need to lower the rating to pg-13. pg-13 = no blood, no acid shower, no horrible deaths. Oh yes - the place of such a film only in the trash.

@Leto

That is why critics and audiences around the world gave two thumbs down and dont like the film...the movie is a horrible pile of trash....it has some great moments in it thats it....other wise its down in the rubbish heaps of history....the film is so bad Disney does not want to risk making another one....but I told you how the new movie has to be made. Do it that way and there is still hope that maybe another movie might get made...people like what they like and like big space wars with lots and lots of special effects done right....if you like the little big hands scene great!

But there are a lot of people that found it disturbing and worthless.

We have to turn off the echo chamber in here and not be afraid to tear down these films because if we dont we will never get a better film or one ever made again.

I agree also the Jurassic Park movies I could care less about....it is the larger special effects fight scenes that larger audiences of all ages seemed to respond to so its something scientifically we cannot dismiss because of personal idealizations.

Now in your own words to be fair...what works in other films keeps working for some reason with these epic space wars in other films!

"I find it quite ironic that smart people are always talking about something new, but absolutely forget about the centuries-old wisdom - "don’t fix what is not broken". If Ridley says that "the beast is cooked" (he, btw, admitted that he was wrong) or you need to explore new ways - it's just the opinion of one person. A man whose last films, let’s say so, have performed rather sluggishly. A man who doesn't respect one of the most iconic monster in world culture."

So you even admit his last films did not perform well.

@ EVERYONE!

The engineers on LV-223 look different because they are making highly advanced weapons of mass destruction. When they are in the their labs they have modified bodies so they can work in hazardous environments.

It makes less sense that that there would be factions of the Aliens AKA engineers working against their entire culture. I like to think of them at most as a rouge element of part of their government working towards a greater weapon to kill off an enemy that is attacking them in another part of the galaxy.

The story line where they create us....well here is what I think about that....you need lab rats to test your weapons on...that solves that and it's a lot more interesting.

Ok then so what to do about the plot holes...if they are so advanced why dont they just use their computers and use simulations....who knows.....who knows.....the fact that they created us and then want to kill us is stupid plot hole so you have to fill it with something. Who knows why they went there in the first place. The mission to LV-426 was always about special order 937 "Priority One. Ensure return of organism for analysis. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable."

So there you go they should have stuck with that plot line that we were always outsiders and had nothing to do with these Aliens!!! The entire franchise is messed up its not even funny.

All they had to do was insert us in this larger cosmic war the Engineers were about to engage in with eggs in the cargo hold and we would have had much better movies consistent with everything Ridley wanted to do with the entire franchise.

The scene with David standing over the exploded chest and holding up his hands while the little fully formed Xenomorph held up it's hands

One of the most touching and beautiful scenes in the history of cinema.

Also I don't like brainless scAvengers and similar BS. Universal failed with their Dark Universe. And the dinosaurs from JW looked stupid - they lacked only tights and cloaks to join the team of the Avengers.

Battle between aliens and engineers - yes. Large-scale wars - no or leave behind the scenes.

@Michart.....how best to help you with the black goo...

The black goo is many things and maybe this analogy will help you.

You have a cell phone and it has a small capacity cpu. We also have super computers that can make a phone call too through software; but, they have hundreds of thousands of powerful cpus and can do much more than just a phone call.

First of all the black goo is far more advanced nano technology that is tens of thousands of years past our current understanding of physics in general...so it could be just about anything.

In the scene with the sacrificial engineer he might have been thinking the thought for the black goo to reorganize it's matrix for it to break down his dna, his entire cellular matter and seed the planet. This is a more powerful sub atomic computer, many millions of times more powerful than the current cpus we use in all the super computers on our entire planet....obviously.

When we see David deploy it from the cargo hold...the black goo is programmed to be used as a weapon of mass destruction....it senses its rapid movement towards the ground and when it appears to form a black vapor it swarms to anything organic rapidly converting to baser elements like fixed carbon...you see them rapidly consumed and in a burned fixed state, charred chemically.

Hope that helps and gives you some ideas...the black goo is really what ever you want it to be....this technology is so advanced it can be what ever you need it to be. So dream big! Enjoy!

In opinion the opposite is true. the bad engineers are those from Prometheus. have genetically modified bodies with biocombinesone. and they with AC have normal bodies, are smiling and do not hate, live in humble and primitive conditions. they are similar to the engineers at the scene of a dedicated engineer. they have normal bodies and a ship that flies away in the shape of a pancake or a guitar pick and not like a croissant like those bad engineers. maybe once engineers studied DNA separated into two fractions. some worked on a cure for disease and life creation, and others genetically identified. they made a biocombinesis and a xenomorphic creature was accidentally created in the laboratory. good engineers wanted to destroy him, evil decided to research and multiply them and then waged wars and wanted to kill good engineers and their product - people. but something happened. an abandoned ship on lv426 could be one of the fleet that was going to earth or to paradise. they had monster eggs on board that they were supposed to carry to the ground and a mysterious fog over the eggs kept them alive and the engineer in the chair was impregnated and jumped out of the cage xenomorf. There was few kind od Black goo. One create  xeno form monsters, second destroy DNA used to Control and destroy This monsters when who lost Control.

but in the convenant thrown by David the  Black goo is sprayed in the air, it attacks humanoids and acts like the one from the beginning of Prometheus - it dissolves and destroys the body. again the worms that fell into the black goo turned into snakes that probably impregnate the victim. again swallowed probably by Holloway (we do not know exactly what David added to the drink and in what dose) causes the body to spread worms similar to those of Black goo white snakes later and so holloway's body as engineer's head dissolves veins and blood. And Engineers from lv 223 was poisoned by Black goo and their bodies explodes like on Convenant.

"The beast is officially cooked," Ridley Scott November 4, 2017.

And here we all are wondering about how we all got here. To the tragic mess we call Alien.

Let us start with some facts. The spin off movies, some of them, have their moments and give us a possible tie in to test what a larger invasion on Earth might have looked like in other possible future films...these cinematic experiments failed at the box office but not because of the lack in special effects. These films failed for a number important reasons. One because of bad scripts, bad acting, and the size and scope of the films. Any films can be great experiences depending on who writes them, produces them, and directs them...just ask Michael Bay - several billion dollars later.

Fact number two. The story lines from Alien to Alien Covenant are so fragmented, worthless, and fouled that nothing can put them back together again....in short order  there are parts of these films that showed great promise; however, once again either do to budget cutbacks, bad scripts, some worthless special effects, or just complete stupidity - who knows why they did it the movies just got made the way they did.

Case in point, the digital Xenomorph in Alien Covenant was so bad I wanted to puke on the floor. The scene with David standing over the exploded chest and holding up his hands while the little fully formed Xenomorph held up it's hands made me want to get the puke back off the floor and throw it up again....there were a few minutes of the film that were outstanding. Most of Alien Covenant needed to hit the editing floor never to be scene or ever be put in theaters.

So what do we do now......I know lets use science to help us understand the movie business....because if you don't use science you end up with what we have now a huge pile of BULL SHITE!

Lets make this as simple as possible so even the slow people at Disney and Walter Hill can understand it.

The highest grossing films of all time are large battle films: Star Wars, Avengers - 2 billion I hear you hollar!!!!!, Avatar, Black Panther, Iron Man, Transformers, Captain America, and even Jurassic Word where humans fight large dinosaurs - yep even if you have a complex enough fight scene you can make billions fighting fake dinosaurs on screen and that is a fact with real money in the bank to prove it!

So Ridley once said I wonder what all those eggs are for in the cargo hold of the Engineer's ship? YEP PAY CLOSE ATTENTION ALIEN FANS! They are to attack another set of other space aliens in an epic fight movie with so many great special effects scenes, just like in Avengers End Game, you cannot resist watching! Right because we like big fight movies....not dumb and dumber emotional robots like Walter and David having even dumb and dumber philosophical arguments, bla bla bla puke puke puke.

So yeah, Ridley, Walter, Disney, and the rest of you if you are reading make that movie about the real war where the Xenomorph and a thousand other horrible night mares descend on the other aliens in the most epic space battles ever to be shown on film and you will make billions consistently....you wont be able to keep people out of the theaters....you must have a really great enemy to fight just like in Avengers End Game, something the audience can get invested in for all the right and wrong reasons...It's true some people like the Empire some people like the Rebels. Who cares lets watch great epic movies!...put in the right special effects and you too can have a very successful Aliens franchise that goes on for years!

Hey I have an idea why don't I write that script and pitch it Disney! Because no one else will....oh by the way....no disrespect but are you people really still talking about Ellen Ripley....just let go ok take deeeep breaths.....deeep breaths! 

Thanks I Raptus.

IMO, for the saga to evolve again, we should see the xenomorph existed before David. The new Ripley episode or the sequel to Alien Covenant that insists on David as the creator of alien will not allow much room to evolve. But I would like to see that sequel and to see David admitting he only made his variant of the monster. 

found a bit more on this HERE @ Cine Series

Translation follows:

I think in order to reply Leto i will mention the Following (meaning No Disrespect).

The First Prequel we had was Prometheus and YES it had some Changes to it from the Earlier Drafts.  They had came to the Decision that going for a Literal Prequel would mean you already know the Outcome, you just would NOT know as to HOW/WHEN and WHY the Xenomorph came to be. They had Decided that the Xenomorph was merely a Engineered Bio-Weapon, and as we had seen the Xenomorph over and over they felt that when looking at ALIEN then the Xenomorph was ONLY a single Part of the Mystery and that the WHY would someone Create such a thing was the Question that mattered.

We had NEVER explored who the Space Jockey was and looking at the PLOT for the Species in the Earlier Drafts they Felt that this was something NEW to explore as in essence ONCE you show HOW/WHEN the Xenomorph was Created then its a CASE of where do you go NEXT?

Off to ALIEN back to LV-223/LV-426 to a Facility or Ship full of Eggs?  They could have maybe gave us a Sequel that would take us to a World that had become Infested with Xenomorphs but then if they are NOT really Elevated beyond what we saw in the Franchise what we have is Basically another Space Bug/Rodent like Flick.

So they felt that the other Themes in Prometheus were what they should EXPLORE, and that a Sequel would STEER AWAY from ALIEN, feeling that maybe Prometheus would have given enough Clues to Fans that the Xenomorph was Connected to what they was doing on LV-223 so many Thousands of Years ago and that maybe keeping the DETAILS a Mystery was the way to go.

They had BIGGER Plans... "Big Things have Small Beginnings" I feel is showing the Potential in the Engineers Black Goo, and maybe Hints that David sees its Potential so Big Things are on the Horizon for him.

So at this point they decided to NOT base the Prequels around the Xenomorph, Prometheus was a attempt to give some Clues so that the DOOR TO ALIEN could be Closed.. But in Hindsight it was NOT enough.  It felt like they Half Answered the Mystery.

At this point our Xenomorph was likely either a Consequence like the Neomorph, or was Engineered like the Xenomorph of Davids... But at least it seemed like it was Thousands of Years ago.  No BLACK GOO and then NO XENOMORPH would appear to be the Answers.  Ridley Scott did in 2012 give a Answer (still a bit Vague) but a Answer None the Less.

WAS THIS... the Right Idea?  Maybe not, i think it Reduced the Xenomorph to being basically to the Engineers as a Sarin in is to Humans, or even a MP4 Assault Riffle (a Use of Gunpowder). I think the Xenomorph Enigma deserved more than that ;)

But as it is then its a case of the Xenomorph was just a SINGLE type of Horror from the LV-223 Facilities, they Clues shown (more Evident in Alien Engineers) was that the Engineers had Experimented and Created a Variety of Horrors that are Related.. so its like the MP4 is NOT the only Gunpowder Weapon our Military has Produced.

So its like you have seen Xenomorph Eggs... well take a look at what other Horrors are a Result of the Black Goo and Experiments, which inc the Deacon, the Hammerpedes and as we saw in AC the Neomorph... How many other Horrors could this lead to as opposed to just VANILLA XENOMORPHS.

So the Xenomorph was a BIG part of the Franchise, but the Prequels they wanted to STEER AWAY from that and look at the Scope of the Engineers as surely they NEVER just Created Humans on Earth and Eggs on LV-426.

This is prior to Alien Covenant off course... with this Movie.. well it was a bit of a Shambles... a Big Sticking point is the Creation of the Xenomorph by a Android who was all ALONE, got Bored and so he decided to Experiment with the Black Goo and Life Forms to see HOW good his Genetic Engineering could take him, but also to Create Something which could DESTROY..

I think that YES the route they took with the Xenomorph was NOT maybe the Full Potential....  they could have Elevated it... but instead the PATH of it being just a Engineered Weapon means in Context to the Engineers then maybe its not the BIGGEST thing about them.  The Path of David does give more Reason for its Creation, but having a Synthetic created by Mankind being the Creator of the Iconic Space Monster is something that has taken away anything really ALIEN about the Monster.

I was merely trying to look at ways we could show the Xenomorph Potential and its Ancestry has more Benefit than it being merely a Engineered Killing Machine.

If you Engineered (this is just Sci-Fi) a Rat/Mouse to be 7-8ft, make it able to Stand so its kind of a Human/Rat Hybrid that has Claws as Deadly as a Tiger and its Favorite Food is Humans and other Mammals...  and this Basically is what the Xenomorph is.... such a Creation would cause a Infestation of a Location and Eradicate all Life by Virtue of Survival, Procreation. 

Agree. If it's David - why did he stop? Why does he look back? Why is there an expression of uncertainty and doubt on his face? Just like: "Did I make the right choice? Did I do the right thing?" Why does he have exactly the same scar as Walter? The answer can be found in the novelization from Alan Dean Foster?

Exactly, Which is why I think it was Holloway's mutated sperm which became the "Trilobite".

i noticed that during the battle of two androids in the Covenant at 1:33:00, later at 1:33:43 Walter stops, he is uncertain, he thinks about something, then there is the shot of the ship and the square, and Walter does not escape from the cathedral. only at 1:34:00 he runs out of the cathedral, it is not known if he killed David, apparently in 1:33:43 he stopped and turned back. decided to go to David's website and take the facehugger eggs. only human xenomorph chases them. david is either paralyzed or Walter or Xenomorph killed him or lives u got on the planet.