Comments (Page 246)

chli so it means that if the derelict was there even before the Prometheus mission, probably the whole idea of prequels that would lead to back door of Alen might have not been considered at the time of Prometheus. 

Ridley Scott just wanted to explore something else and especially to get rid of the stupid Aliens type of a script that Blomkamp was trying to make with Alien 5. This confirms the story of Carlos Huante from a recent interview I mentioned in another thread:

"HUANTE: “We’re talking in the room and he says to me ‘Hey, you know, this whole facehugger, xenomorph thing as they’re calling it, this is kind of dead isn’t it?…and I’m like looking at him nodding my head ‘Yeah man, it’s dead they’ve ruined it actually..the only film I counted was your’s, the first one’. The second one was fun, but even then, back in the day, I was rolling my eyes thinking that they turned it into an action adventure and I was a teenager. The poster was Ripley holding a big gun…I rolled my eyes even back then. Then I saw the movie and I liked it, it was good, it was really fun and well done, but it wasn’t the first movie. So I told him [Ridley Scott] ‘Look, man, they just ruined it’… So Ridley was like ‘So yeah, we got to do something else I don’t want to really make another Alien movie but I’m going to use it as my canvas to do something else’. While he was talking I was understanding this wasn’t going to be Alien, it would be something else, but it was going to play within that world and it’s going to lead us to the first Alien film, right. And so he was really trying to go away from Alien and create this science fiction story that brushed against the whole Alien storyline, so that’s the way we went at it. This opened up the world to be so fun, “I’m going to run around in circles kind of thing.”

So if in Alien the Company diverted Nostromo to LV426, to investigate the signal they were aware of since before the Prometheus events, could mean that whatever happened in Prometheus,  Covenant and any sequel to Covenant would not affect the history of the derelict from LV426 other than now we know the SJ is an Engineer. David,  his xenomorphs,  the Enginners would have to dissapear.

Or there will be simultaneous stories, the Company tries to get the xenomorph from LV426 via Nostromo, the ship that is closest to the target, while David is on Origae 6 preparing his Invincibila Armada. In such case Aliens and the rest would be like Ripley spin off to the main David story. I'd like that!

Thanks for the find daliens! I'll get a report done up for the homepage. Nice find! Upvoted.

chli I think you may have missed my point which is that RS should shit or get off the pot. I shouldn't have to study extra content or do outside research as a fan. It feels like RS may have become smug with the franchise. I say let others carry the torch.

setaverde what about the battle of Carthage in space?

Ridley Scott hinted he would do a sequel to Gladiator and Maximus would return.

Crikey....where to Start Here.....  I have covered a lot of this before, so it would take HUGE posting to go into some details... we could BORE ya all LOL

So i am gonna try and keep it short...

The Prometheus Blue-ray extras could now be considered as None-Canon as Alien Covenant appeared to Re-write/Ignore some of the stuff the Weyland-Industries Viral site had started.

YES Originally the idea was the Derelict had been on LV-426 for Thousands of Years, and the Xenomorph was related/result of the Engineers Experiments and likely Outbreak on LV-223 some 2000 years ago..  Ridley Scott even giving us a indication of WHEN/HOW which points the Finger at maybe the Hammerpedes being the Source (Xenomorph).  Unless we throw in Alien Engineers to get/use for some Answers....  but Alien Engineers does-not quite add up to Ridley Scotts comments...  (Outbreak happened within a Few Hundred Years of the Outbreak 2000 Years Ago, as something in the Derelicts Cargo Hold had EVOLVED).

Things change as they go along!

The idea NOW appears to be that David Created the Xenomorph, which does raise some Plot Inconsistencies. But such things and other Flaws will allow us to consider that the TWO events CANT be connected... 

Until we reach the Climax/Conclusion its open to debate, and regardless of the route we have taken (David Creator) by the time and IF we ever get a Conclusion, then things could take another U-Turn once again.... Unless Ridley Scott is involved and Disney allow him to stick to his Plan.

Gavins explanation is VERY unlikely if we look at the Prequels..... but we have to remember things can change, and indeed Gavin's explanation does take us closer to HR Gigers Concepts... 

There is some relationship between the Derelict and Xenomorph Aesthetically, the Ship looked Designed for the Space Jockey which in HR Gigers concepts are Humanoids... the Question is WHAT is the relationship... Symbiotic?

The Engineers are their by the Order/Subjugated by some Species that WANT the Xenomorph Spread?  is the Xenomorph Created by the Engineers but they Self-Sacrifice themselves to Procreate it?

The Prequels appear to be taking us on a LESS-ALIEN route of the Origins compared to what the Derelict/Space Jockey Scenes seems to show, as far as the effect it has on you the FIRST TIME you ever saw it.

The Prometheus Themes could be the Biggest Clue to where to take it...

David gives us the Biggest Clue!

Creation.. intended to FULFILL a Purpose Rebel against Creator and Purpose, then Use Technology of Layers of Creator to Create for themselves...

Swap David for Mankind, Swap Mankind for Engineers... you can repeat it but we see the same thing....

If Engineers were Created to Seed/Host some Organism for some other HIGHER Species...  maybe Creation of Mankind could be to Replace the Engineers for this Purpose... either by Engineers to replace them for Sacrifices... or by the Engineers Creators  or beings that use the Engineers, as replacement for them...

Or maybe thats NOT why we was created.... or even if so, then we could look at the Engineers having Rebelled and STOLEN the Technology of this Species and Re-Engineered it and Evolved themselves with it!

YES there was a Egg Silo, that actually was prior a Pyramid, YES the Xenomorph was planned to be more Intelligent, and some kind of Civilization...

The Xenomorph has been COOKED... as in to be taken Seriously as a Species thats PULLING the Strings... it is merely a Creation to KILL!

But we could still introduce a STARBEAST as FAR as a Species, Bio-Mechanical Beings (or Machines/Living Ships) that are ANCIENT and above the Engineers or their Ancestors... some Species that has that Xenomorph Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic, well certainly VERY like the HR Giger Aesthetic...  that does-not have to be too close to a Xenomorph at all..

Get back to something ALIEN, very HR Giger and Lovecraftian  and so indeed like what Gavin suggested i think could be the way to go..... only i feel at the TOP of this ladder its HOW do you use the Xenomorph.... something NEW could be needed.

The next IT has the same characters as adults. Big Deal. Pennywise needs to really be evil and actually kill to back the psychological scares.  

The project is done. Ridley Scott has everything "pronto". The way it's going to be broadcasted, by  a movie or by a TV show, it's up to fox and Disney. I prefer a movie. I hope it's going to be a movie. The alien movies are an epic horror gothic space saga. I ONLY want One thing from Ridley Scott in the Next movie, short dialogs, lots of horrible deaths, lots of gore, Battles between engineers, humans and Androids and New monsters created by engineers, David and the weyland yutani company- building better horror worlds. I want to see hell on space. Give us hell, Ridley. Hellxeno!

Ps: i don't want 'Game of Xenos', with a Cersei Xeno. Almost ten long fraking yearS of waiting to watch the end of the story. What a fraking soap opera.

If you want a space soap opera, i give you an amazing soap opera, 'knights of sidonia'. Here's the trailer,

https://youtu.be/xoW8tujGcds

The WONDERS of Flaws in the Movies ;)  I think as DK indicated its intended to not matter and a case of Oversight!

But it does allow for many debates.

I have not read the W-Y Report, i can assume the 30Km Distance may have came from what Bishop had said as pointed out by HOX and thus added to the Report.

Sometimes Movie Plots are not 100% Scientifically Correct, and so to pick some Flaws, we could counter argue that actually Xenomorphs DONT exist either.

So regarding the 30KM i think this was used as a Plot Device to indicate that the Blast Would Reach the Derelict and THUS render its Cargo Destroyed... (but thats not to say it could have Survived).  I think if we are talking a Blast Radius we need to wonder is this the Fireball?  Radioactive Energy Burst (cause severe Burns) or the Air Burst which at short distances would Destroy Buildings...   The Radioactive Radius even at its Highest Concentration would not Destroy the Derelict, the Fireball Blast maybe could... and the closer Air Blast could BURY the Derelict.

So the Vapor Cloud could be from dust and other Vapor released from the Blast, and not that it would Vaporize the State of Nebraska as well a 40MT Yield would not even scratch Nebraska... as far as a area that would Vaporize the area (as nothing remains).

For a Blast to in effect Wipe Out completely a area of 30KM would require a 150-200MT Blast!

But such things are just Oversights... i think a 30KM distance to the Derelict would suggest that indeed that ATV would have taken about a Hour Drive..

As daliens pointed out though, surely the Colonist would NOT have missed the Derelict being so close... unless the Storms on LV-426 make it hard to detect by means such as Radar etc and also the Clouds/Dust Storms would make it maybe Impossible to Visibly see it when coming to Land at the Colony Outpost.

The whole Egg Silo Kane went into and IF its part of the Ship Debate is a whole different Kettle of Fish!

Prometheus shows us the Juggernaught has different Cargo Holds... If we take those Schematics and assume the Derelict has similar, then indeed the Jordon's could have ventured to ONE Hold in one of the ARM Sections, compared to Kane's more Central one... but then IF we assume the Holds are of Similar Size.... again these Cargo Holds are FAR too Large to Fit inside the Derelict.

This i feel is just Oversight.... it would be interesting HOW they would have tackled this IF we got a conclusion to the Prequels...

As we have NO clear answers as far as on Screen... we have NOT yet seen the Eggs Loaded on the Derelict then anything can be changed!

As Gavin had said we could go the EGG Silo route...

Then it opens up the case of was the Derelict taking Eggs from the Egg Silo, or was it dropping off Eggs there for Storage?  

Which then could raise the Question of the Space Jockey, which would mean during the Docking of the Ship to this Egg Silo he had become infected at some point, and its a case of was he then TRYING to leave but got NO-WHERE as opposed to Crash Landed?

@Lone

I could not have said it better myself....

If anything is in the Works... then ALIEN Day as 40th Anniversary would be the ideal time to let us know or give us a teaser!

Regarding IT!   i felt the Clown was more Spooky in the Movie, but it just never quite seemed the same, but the TV Series was a TWO Parts and in Movie Terms the 2017 Movie was in effect just Part 1 so it would be interesting to see how the Sequel/Final Part Concludes, and its not too long to wait ;)

Huante has been very influential as far as Designs go, the Neomorph is in effect based off some of his Unused Prometheus Concepts.  Such as one of his Ultramorph Concepts, and Deacon Concepts.

I am not so impressed with his work here, but he is Amazing at what he does, i like the Head of the Gorilla and Body of the Neomorph and combine both would give us something thats Awesome.

"there is not really much scope to do anything grandiose and interesting in the next installment. Seems like so, but who knows."

I think it could go that route... there is the potential to be Grand but sadly as we are NOW in Prequel Territory where we have to ASSUME we are on that Inevitable March to ALIEN where we have to just connect the DOTS to HOW/WHEN/WHY it is that Davids Xenomorphs get unto a Engineer Ship and HOW/WHEN/WHY was that ship in the Facility of LV-223/426.

And it will be these HOW/WHEN/WHY that i feel a lot of Fans would be expecting to see and anything else or Emphasis on anything that does-not connect to the HOW/WHEN/WHY would be seen as a Distraction.  I feel any 2 Hour Movie that could mix a bit of Alien Covenant and Prometheus but TAKE-OUT anything Alieny (like Hammerpedes, Trilobite, Deacon, Neomorph or Xenomorph and Eggs).  would likely NOT please most fans... or certainly thats how the Studios may see it.

"Now, back to that plot"

Firstly yes Good Point about the lack of knowledge about David by the Covenant Crew, and WHAT the Company knew about LV-223, certainly have to ask WHY in 10 years they never Investigated... maybe they took the Warning for what is is... NOTHING BUT DEATH and so for those who can benefit from Weylands Death.... maybe nothing to GAIN apart from his Death...  surely they would send a Probe or a Synthetic Mission though?

Certainly with Walter, i think we have to ask HOW would the Engineers know David is off to Origae-6 and for me, the only way would be via Walter, or if the Lander Wreckage or Something on any of the Dead Crew has any indication of Origae-6.

I think your Plot makes things more Simple/Direct with little Distraction apart from reaching the Inevitable, while also allowing to explore David Creating something else...

Time Restraints we have to consider a Planet 4 to Origae-6 and then Origae-6 to LV-223 Journey would take up 14-15 years of the 17 years before the Nostromo Crew arrive at LV-426.

But that would leave 2-3 Years for what ever HAPPENS on LV-223 to when the Derelict ends up on LV-426, and so a lot of any Creating of Beings by David could be done during any of that 14 years Traveling on the Covenant.

So this could be a simple PLOT that could take ONE movie that would maybe be a SAFER option, as opposed to a movie that could be a Distraction if its spending years on Origae-6.

"Disagree. Adventure - the best aspect of Prometheus."

Certainly was a Thought Provoking Philosophical Adventure for sure, what i meant in my Comment about being Too Adventurous as i feel the Plot was a bit too Grand/Bold and there are fans who would not had expected or wanted to see a ALIEN Franchise movie go off on a Different Tangent that could have steered further from what the Alien Franchise was about.  So i feel some of the Creation Themes, and Philosophy was taking the Franchise Deeper than it needed to go (for me PERSONALLY? thats what i liked about Prometheus, but its a shame that a lot of Prometheus just Did-Not appear to be what some fans wanted), so they maybe should have given us more ALIEN Engineers, who have NO connection with Mankind, and are instead involved in some Galactic War that Time has Long Forgotten.

I really hope they can retain and go back to some of the Grandeur that the Prometheus began.. that Alien Covenant kind of put the LID on...

"It was never been David's Odyssey. It was Shaw's Odyssey."

I think is where its open to Personal Interpretation.. i Personally feel it was something BIGGER than both those Characters, they was there to help be our Anchor Point to explore the Themes at Play...

Some do feel it should have been about Dr Shaw, some are Disappointed she was not a Ripley like Character, but we dont need to have Ripley Clones (we have that with Ripley 8) and Evidence for that is how FORCED the Character of Daniels seemed to be, in a attempt to kind of replicate Ripleys ARC in the First 3 movies into ONE movie.

some think it should had been about Dr Shaw's Questions, and indeed those Questions would have Provided some Answers that would have been interesting, but i feel those Answers would certainly had NOT came anywhere near the GOD/Creators that she was brought up to have Belief in from her Faith.  But i understand some were expecting some revelations more close to her Faith, but i feel she would have found a HORRIFIC Truth that makes her Faith a Sham!

For me Prometheus was about Creation, both in terms of Life but Technology too, it was about what makes someone a God or Godlike, it was about Immortality, but also looking at what makes people Immortalized, and that Does-Not have to mean they LIVE for ever.  It was about Sub-Creation and how this can Empower the Creator with a Godlike Sense of Accomplishment, it was also about the HUBRIS of Creation, and especially if you create a Superior, or Intelligent Creation, and this Creation then gains Freewill and Knowledge, becomes Sentient and Rebels, and if your Creation does this and they can Procreate (Create) then what a THREAT that can be..

Its also about the pursuit of Immortality, Knowledge, wishing to Meet your Makers and the Hubris of this, in the belief that your Creation was for a Purpose and one that your Creator had a Great Importance and Care for their Creation...  then reveal that the reasons for Creation could be MUCH Farther from that Naive Belief.

In David we see this whole Creation/Hubris ARC played out, its like a Repeating Theme of Hubris, in Hindsight Creating David was a mistake and he was NOT Created to be Loved by his Creator... and for the Engineers as far as Creating us, its maybe exactly the same and so we have this Layered Cake of Creation....   and so it was Logical the Next Stage would have been to see it from David and what he would then Create which would be to his HUBRIS and Downfall.

I feel Dr Shaw would have been used to just show her/us that these Engineers are NOTHING like her Bible Teaches and there is NO Benevolent (at times) God of her Faith, and maybe reveal some other Sinister Reason for our Creation.   The Horror when she discovers this would have been our Proxy to the Horrific Truth of Creation.

I ponder it was NO coincidence that the closest thing we saw to a Xenomorph in Prometheus was via Dr Shaw, the Trilobite was in effect a type of Face Hugger, which lead to a Type of Chest Buster (Deacon) and so its NO Surprise to me that she was used to use her Womb/Egg Cells to Create the Xenomorph..  Although i dont think the Original Idea was to have her used to Create the Xenomorph, but certainly i would not be Surprised if after the Revelations, she would be or attempted to be used to Re-Create similar either by David or the Engineers.

But i do think Dr Shaw was not used well, while she would have been better to use as our Proxy to the Horrors she could have Faced... i felt it would have been better for her to had gone through the ORDEAL but be kept Alive... and then Ultimately for her to had Sacrificed Herself... this would have been much more fitting than the Injustice i feel we got in Alien Covenant.    Where her END would have given Great Importance to the Saving of others or indeed MANKIND!

I would have had her AFTER all her Revelations that Proof there was NO Goody Two Shoes GOD....  but at that Moment, before she Sacrifices herself, she clasps her Crucifix and closes her Eyes...  With that One Final Element and Memory in the Knowledge that what she is doing is similar to who she had put her Faith in had done for Mankind...   Sacrifice to Save us!

This is just my Interpretation and so thats not to say i am in any way correct. 

I agree and I am totally in favor of a TV series.

I wonder what Ridley Scott is doing these days, I know he is a busy little bee.

He can't be only sitting for a portrait.

I think a TV series is the way to go.

I finally saw IT and was extremely disappointed. The 90s series with Tim Curry had tons of character and plot development. The new movie seemed like a weak version of Nightmare on Elmstreet and Pennywise would have been bitch slapped by Freddy. 

You just can't pack the depth into a theater length movie imo.

Alien covenant had a profit of 260 million dollars, with a budget of 97 million dollars, in 2017. I think they are still making money with This movie. It's not a smash hit, but it's obvious that exists potential to make at least One more movie or/and a TV series.

What I don't want is probably exactly where the Franchise will go, plus it's something a lot of people would be happy about.

Jim Cameron is waiting in the wings, as he intends to bring Blomkamp's ALIEN 5 to fruition. Understandable I guess, as it does feature a continuation of his characters! Many people feel that Ridley has had his chance & blown things, so why not have Cameron step in?

I don't think it would provide us with anything new, nor push the envelope enough. I'd prefer more Engineer backstory, (why waste a whole technologically advanced civilisation, their motives & history?) plus a full on Gigerverse juxtaposed with believable, interesting, well defined characters whom we care about. As opposed to glossed over, badly written caricatures whose actions & dialogue make us wince.

There's so much potential in the Alienverse, so many new places the story could go. We don't need any more re-treads, re-hashes or contrivance.

The question remains as to who could bring the correct balance of elements together in an engaging way. For me, PROMETHEUS was a great beginning.

I like these early

Enginners design by Carlos Huante:

First part of Carlos Huantes interview, where he talks about Prometheus and how just before Ridley Scott jumped in the script was like Aliens (probably he read the script for Blomkamp's Alien 5) can be read also on HNentertainment here.

"HUANTE: “When we met, I had a script in my hand and it was not good. It would have been like Aliens, like an Aliens movie it wasn’t Alien it would have been an Aliens film. There was an army group there fighting aliens with all of them getting killed. It was a shoot ’em up bang-bang film with aliens in it. It was really bad but I knew that wasn’t going to be the script and Ridley had just gotten hired, the art department got hired on. I was living up in Northern California at the time. So they flew me down to meet with Ridley for a couple of days. And so I’m in the room with Ridley, I sit down and he starts telling me the story, the new script, and it’s way better. I mean that [previous] script I had read had nothing to do with what he was telling me.”

If it was already discussed and I missed it, please ignore it.

Original concept for the neomorph was by Huante, but the neomorph as seen in AC is by Colin Shulver.

Probably you should look at the characters and the setting. Do you have mega-buildings littered with bright neon corporate ads, usually representing Honk Kong on a very "bad day"? Do you have a form of cyber-space? The technology should be really advanced in CP, but in the Alien Franchise prior to the prequels everything was pretty much junk. There are no implants no human genetic modifications or cloning (before Resurrection).

The protagonist is usually a man (a hacker or some form of Private eye), an anti-hero ("criminals, outcasts, visionaries, dissenters and misfits" https://web.archive.org/web/20050827210905/http://18hz.deid.net/cyberpunk.htm) forced to do a job. While Ripley is a true hero she only becomes a misfit only after meeting the Xenomorph. David from Prometheus could fit the bill, but he was transformed into a villain so I wouldn't consider him as such. But there is also the Meet Walter short, with it's loss of DNA rights disclaimer.

The most CP element is of course the Company itself, Weyland-Yutani.

But we must also keep in mind that the movie is mainly a creature feature, more Horror than Sci-fi and it appeared before there was a Cyber-Punk genre, which properly emerge with Blade Runner, RS's next movie. So I would say that the first Alien might be considered proto-SP, but the rest of the series are more or less Alien movies. 

Neomorph from AC also created by Huante.

Gorilla - head is very good.

Neomorph -  cool.

dk

Ridley Scott directed both Prometheus and Alien: Covenant. He should know what’s in Prometheus and what kind of extra material is on the blue-ray.

Gavin

The term “fossil” is, apparently, a rather broad term which can also include preserved bones. Also, the extreme climate on LV-426 might, in time, start a similar process as “fossilization”?

We would need the equipment Shaw uses when she dates how long the decapitated engineer’s been dead. :)

daliens

That's impossible since the warning signal (about the eggs) were sent from LV-426 before David was "born".

Somehow, I think Resurrection seems the most bio/cyberpunk of the franchise. It is pretty subjective but there was a good mix of film noir, advanced tech, a dystonian- ish environment and some anti heroes of sorts.

Alien is at best cyberpunk-adjacent, if you consider Bladerunner and Alien to take place in the same world. 

Not enough trench coats and urban blight in Alien for it to be truly cyberpunk, and nobody in Alien is really enhanced with cybernetics except Ash, but he's an android. 

Damn Nin is on it this weekend!

More than likely lol. That one there is 187 comments alone! Took a little digging to find too lol

Here's the off the beaten path thread

https://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43846

ninXeno426 As Archie and Edith sang- Those Were the Days! And that was the finalized thread. We did a prep thread prior to this!

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43867

Indeed lol. That was a very fun thread LMAO

Mr. Iger called the library “a treasure trove of long-lasting, valuable content” that “no other content or technology company can rival.”

Warner Brothers:"Are we a joke to you?"

Due to the amount of R rated lproperties from Fox(Alien, Predator, The Kingsman,Deadpool,DieHard etc)It It's very doubtful any that Disney would stream much from Fox that isn't called X Men or Avatar. It's more likely that Fox would boot up there own streaming service.

Leto thank you for that insight! A quick look on google for biopunk images bring up some very fascinating images, and definitely fits the bill for Alien! 

I see works like The Thing, Bioshock, and the upcoming Scorn are listed as biopunk too

Did anyone hear a Predator right at the end of Night Shift?

Here is the little chest buster on rails lol!

Lone nice choices!! 

I have not seen Leviathan but it does look very 'Alien'. 

the full film is on youtube here! I'll be watching asap!

Deep Star Six I remember seeing as a kid and thoroughly enjoying. I recently re-watched in on Youtube but it looks like it has now been removed.

It didn't age well, but still had some memorably tense scenes.

I guess we have to subscribe to the bundle that includes Hulu, I doubt Alien or any other R-rated films will make it on Disney+.

The good thing is the content is downloadable so 1 month subscription should do if not interested in anything else Disney has to offer.

Carlos Huante is very talented, but his neomorph and gorilla xenomorph are bad ideas.

The neomorph from AC is a lot better, coming out straight from hell.

That is why I am totally against the hybrids in the Alien franchise.

Nice guys!

Anyone else hear a Predator at the very end?