Comments (Page 670)
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I dont think David kills Shaw.When Daniels asks him what you did to her he answers the same thing im going to do to you.And then he kisses her.Maybe David kissed Shaw?
Oh, he did. I think he experimented on her for as long as he was able to whilst she was alive, then killed her in order to use her body and organs to further his research.
I do believe that the Narcissus name of the escape pod ties into the overall theme of vanity Nathan Adler.
In regards to vanity, the entire history of Peter Weyland and his evolving galactic corporation is a rebellion against mortal limits. In the legend, Narcissus was in love with himself after seeing his reflection and lost all hope when he realized that the affection would never be returned.
Peter Weyland set in motion the tools to rebel against mortal limits and the technology he cultivated (Weyland Industries) continued on when his plans went against him. And brought the alien back from being extinguished in space in the escape ship.
The significance of the escape ship named Narcissus was a reflection of humanity's efforts to push past mortal limits and the consequences of trying to do so when finally reaching something that can wipe out everything humanity has built.
Not necessarily... If we go with the idea that at the time of Prometheus the Space Jockey hasn't happened yet, there's nothing remarkable about LV-426...
But, if it turns out that the Alien Xenomorph is an older version of David's reverse engineered beings, who knows what will happen?!
lol.
Also, don't worry guys. David may still just have made and killed a bunch of Shaw clones, like this:
That's a much happier scenario...right? ^-^
It was a mistake to make the Zeta 2 Reticuuli system the primary setting for Prometheus if LV 426 wasn't going to play a significant role. It would have been more effective to have (LV 223) on the other side of that system and by the time events culminated in the Space Jockey reaching the infamous planetoid, the scope and mystery of what we've already seen would not only be preserved, but reaffirmed. The fact that 223 and 426 are kind of right next to each other takes a little bit of that away in my opinion.
@Ati I know...we need to have a chain of events and releases in the media to keep the masses interested. And another "Prometheus like" long burn trailer plan WITHOUT all the reveals!
Am i just missing something ? i have watched the phobos several times now and i dont know what this great secret is ? I paused it a few times when i thought it looked like the view oram got of the egg but it is a white almost translucent snake. That is as far as i am with it. i did hear a fmiliar "sound" but other than that i am not sure what you guys are referring to.
Can you tell me what evidence there is for WY prior Xeno knowledge plz plz plz ????
Ingeniero -- Haa, Elizabeth is ok, :) As for the moving on, I was talking about Logan's mouth. :D
I would open it with the extended Weyland/David convo, introduce the Covenant crew via the Last Supper prologue, and switch out the scene where Daniels is in her quarters with Branson's video with the bedroom flashback. In the second act, I would definitely include the extended plaza sequence and merge the Crossing prologue with the sequence where David bombs the Engineers upon his arrival. If those specific scenes were reinstated in a fan edit, those would be my ideal inclusions. Advent was super interesting, but I don't know how it would fit within the movie itself, unless it was inserted as a mid-credits thing.
Ok Ati. I respect that you have moved on but I will still carry a torch for my beloved Dr. Elizabeth Shaw.
Jay Johns - 'I also believe Fox better not wait another 5 years for AC'
True, you can't imagine how much I want an official announcement regarding the AC sequel now! Ahhh, September...
I too loved it, however, just to through a cold dose of logic onto it; if we remember that they are going to an unknown part of space, to an unknown planet, with unknown flora and fauna, it stands to reason that the crew and colonists would be tested for their fear of the unknown, like Lope says in regards to the question of aliens. We have to remember that alien doesn't always mean Xenomorph... The Engineers are technically aliens. As would any animals be on another planet... Like Milburn's worms!
River of Pain is set in that time and place. Also a short story from Bughunt.
I can well imagine RoP as a storyline for an Isolation game. Colonists getn picked left and right while you (Capt. Brackett?) try to protect them, WY-scientists trying to pull through their own agendas etc etc. I like the idea.
Your conjecture that Ridley is trying to mediate the needs of those who want an action tentpole movie more akin to A L I E N S verses those who want something thoughtful and intellectually challenging where we are not spoon fed like Prometheus is actually the entire point of this thread and the danger for the franchise so we are constantly repeating the key theme and not recognising the reason we are here which is that Covenant undersold Prometheus.
Ironically this shows that exposition can reveal huge amounts of story in very short order when executed in a creative way. The notion that thoughtful exposition kills off momentum was never an issue in the 20th century cinema its just in this hyper knowledge saturated age where people have the attention spans of a gnat have made studios nervous. But I put it to you those shorts full of all types of different content show that 5 minutes can achieve a huge amount in cinema without killing the narrative.
That said as Dave has said like me when he left viewings of Covenant he heard people say it was OK but wow it was far to slow and took to long to get going. They are there for their breaking bones fix whilst they much on Popcorn and nothing else and unfortunately in the more general publics mind that what an Alien prefix movie is all about. I have a number of friends who are surprised that I would go and see Covenant knowing I like a thoughtful film that again demonstrates the problem with the brand. If you want bigger audiences you need to break out and ensure that if the fan boys go you explain why they are not wearing helmets.
I don't really think it did undersell Prometheus... If we take the story at face-value, most of the crew weren't aware of the Prometheus, or if they were, they simply didn't care. That wasn't their bag. We also have to remember that, without Shaw around to stop David, he was never going to divulge everything to anyone, not even Walter.
Let's look at the facts; if Shaw had survived, David wouldn't have been able to kill the Engineers on Planet 4, and he would have been no match for them. No signal would have been sent, and the Covenant would never have diverted away from their course...
I'm not sure why you think exposition is a problem for the 21st century movie-goer... I've never heard anyone complain about a film being too long. If anything, there are often complaints that a film is too short. It's why people love the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit extended editions. They're all over three hours long.
I'm also not sure why anyone would say that Covenant is slow to start... There's action from the get-go, and it takes only 20-25 minutes for the first big action to hit. I remember thinking that it was incredibly fast-paced, and seemed to be over before I'd realised!
Starlogger - You are welcome.
Your previous comment reflects my point of view as well.
sherris - You're agreed. Let's move on. :)
Seph7 - Thoughts added by Lawrence of Arabia are loved by me. :) His comments are my guiding light.
My wife, who also liked the movie, commented last night that they revealed waaaaay too much in the months leading up to the release of AC. I also believe Fox better not wait another 5 years for AC
This. Ridley has planned for several films so of course he wasn't going to answer everything at once because then it would defeat the purpose and allure of the prequels. A lot of the answers from Prometheus are in the film for those willing to look too.
I agree. I think there are a few more answers than perhaps people realise, and it takes a repeat viewing to really capture the whole of the film...
It certainly helps that the extra material has been made available on the Blu Ray, and I love all the promo/post film stuff!
Done with Ripley. She was a solitary character full of GREAT characters in a great film. She happened to be the sole survivor, but that doesn't mean she "deserves" to live on in perpetuity. She's not THAT strong of a character. What is she, Superman? (or Woman?) It just seems silly to keep bringing her up over and over, and revolving movies around someone like her.
Done with Ripley.
That said, very good interview, and thanks for posting!
An android would not, but the actor does, so they wanted to match that. Seems kind of silly, but there it is.
@Sherris - When you see closeups of actors hands doing things on screen it is actually very common for hand doubles to be doing those shots, not the actual lead actors. Second units usually do stuff like that so they don't waste production time with the leads. It's cool that they let Matt do it.
Critters vs Aliens is a more remarkable possibility... :)
Bringing Ripley back is desperation. Lets move on.
We need to look forward and build a future for this franchise rather than tipping our hat to the past.
Prometheus opened the universe to endless possibilities. A:C closed the door halfway. Now Ripley would just be the end i reckon. Move on. Ripley is done.
Why does RS not only answer prepared questions so he can handle them. Rather than speaking on every part of the Universe when asked with what seems like the knowledge of a casual fan
Ati - I forgot about Rogue one! might say 3 out of 8?
Also forgot about the Ewoks....
Could you imagine a small band of tiny furry creature defeating a hive of Xeno's? ......Don't think that would fly in the Alien verse.
It all says one general thing: movies (in the theater) are on the decline and more people are staying home and waiting for releases on DVD/HD in order to watch in their own comfort.
That reminds me of the Cylons in Battlestar. Maybe they LV223 Engineers or all are a type of biological AI (the Black Goo ended up being like a "radical AI") thatcan transfer their memory into a computer. So when they die (or their body, rather), their memory just gets transferred back to the homebase computer, uploaded to a new body, then they can continue their work or whatever they were doing.
MonsterZero - Your lines about the SW Universe are gold. You mention 7 movies not counting Rogue One?
As for me, Empire is the best SW movie, I like Jedi as well, but Rogue One's space battle scene is the best.
I think Episode 7 is a disaster! And I think 8 will copy Empire!
Your point about the cons is true, no doubt.
ninXeno426 - From my relevant topic:
’Ridley had decided that the derelict ship in the first Alien was one of the group that had gone off and his cargo had gotten out of control, and the space jockey died in the process. So that ship happened to be as it were a brother to the Juggernaut that we see coming out of the ground in Prometheus. They were made roughly the same period give or take a hundred years.
Rick Stammers as special effects supervisor was made aware it might have come from the same factory as the one in Alien, and there again they are not the same ship, it had less emphasis on the bones and organic shapes that were present in Giger's work. Beyond that there is no real link between the two, but it shows who may have had these capabilities to have dreadful weapons beyond anything we could possibly conceive, as sort of bacteriological drums of awful substance that you can drop on a planet.
Because the Juggernaut was carefully stored away underground, Conor O'Sullivan talked about how the details on the walls and the ground are much finer and better defined because the environment is meant to be in almost mint condition.’
Richard Stammers (Special Effects Supervisor): The Juggernaut might look like it has come from the same factory as the derelict in Alien, but it is not the same ship. The exterior shape is similar, but it has way more detail; and inside, it had a little less emphasis on bones and organic shapes than were present in Giger’s work. We had two practical set pieces representing the juggernaut, with doorways again resembling an orifice of questionable nature. (Cinefex 130, p59)
Fox "We spent how much on a set that wasn't in the movie?!!?"
Fox "Ridley do you really need these large set pieces?!","Can't we just film this scene in a abandoned warehouse?"
@BigDave , How about if David planted the Egg aboard the Sulaco? He was mad that they ruined his LV426 experiment, killed all his Xeno's(nuked em' even!!)! ....So He has Mother route the Sulaco to a prison planet and does the crew in...Must of felt good to get his revenge.
Oh and David hand picked Gorman. Knowing this would be a disaster mission.
?
IRaptus - Great topic! I love the Phobos short! It is full of secrets! :)
Jay Johns - Great topic! I wanted to start a similar one, but you are the first! :)
Let me add these numbers as a support:
The Ghost in the Shell (2017):
opening weekend: $18,6 million
production budget: $110 million
(I love the original anime, and the movie is very good in my op., different but good!)
Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets (2017):
opening weekend: $17 million
production budget: $177 million
After three weekends the worldwide number is $65,6 million! A disaster!
(I haven't seen Valerian yet, but we are talking about a Luc Besson movie!)
Thanks for all the kind words guys! Again, I didn't write any of this stuff, but I thought it was worth sharing it!
It's hazy at times but It'll save some time looking it all up on google :)
drucea - "UADVANCED WEAPONS RESEARCH?" Possibly a typo?
Yes, I noticed the 'U' as well, you're right, it must be a typo, however, the same order text can be seen in the screenshot showing the code B88Q - without 'U'. (I copied the text of 21WT without the letter 'U'.)
Thank you for your comment, I thought this topic would generate more comments. :D
I agree that the Last Supper, Crossing at least be included. I'll also do brightness tests on the darker scenes to see if it makes things any better.
Thx for your suggestions guys!
I saw Alien in 1980-ish on HBO & was instantly hooked! The Big Guy in the Chair has been the ultimate sort-of-answered question I can remember? As far as H.R. Giger, I had no idea about him until well after Aliens, as well. I know I saw many pieces of his work & had never put it together that he was the creative genius behind Alien!
I'm siding with Jay Johns on this, also here is a link to an article on the subject.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-dark-tower-box-office-2017-8?r=US&IR=T
@ MU/TH/UR - That is an awesome Space Jockey-looking creature!!
I would have included the Last Supper, for sure before the Neutrino burst incident, also the Crossing needs to be in the back-story, somewhere? Also, some type of explanation of the Engineers 'ways' David spoke of learning about?
As a whole, I would have liked the movie a bit brighter, so it was not so hard to see? I could hardly tell what had happened in the Neomorph attack in the wheat field, as it was so rushed & dark. I could hardly tell Walter had lost his hand, had there been no dialogue on it?
I am going to get the Blu-Ray as soon as I can, to slow some scenes down & analyze further.
This whole argument can't be proven unless RS or Fox states what was changed and how and why. Other than that, you're saying Fox and RS made all of these "dumb" changes thinking fans wouldn't notice or don't care, just because you think that's what happened.
"It is Matt Hatton's hand you see in the video actually doing the drawings. Dane could not do it because he was left handed and David is right handed."
Hrm...but why should an android have a dominant hand? Seems pretty inefficient...I don't think ambidexterity falls into the uncanny valley or disturbs people.
