Comments (Page 386)

Lol, BigDave, the Blade Runner universe is getting bigger and bigger... 8D

'Is there a version of the above image that's larger and we are able to more clearly see the characters to match Special Orders or the latitude/longitude on the below image?'

I don't know Ingeniero, :/

Wow, Dark Nebula, thank you for the spider alien, it looks awesome!

Lol, dk, don't mention it. Darkus Marque's alien universe is a very-very-very extended one... :)

I personally dont see Ripley as relative to the broader themes, and i also see the Xenomorph as not being much about the broader themes but more important than Ripley.

i think we need to explore the Weyland Company Agenda, and how AI/Synthetics fit in the Arc of Creation, Rebellion and Power... and explore more so the Engineers.

BUT they need to bring something Alien back into it, and for this they need to take O'Bannons ideas and Merge them with HR Gigers.  I think Ridley Scott has LOST sight of where to take this... and i think Cameron would just give us a Aliens meets Avatar, its all about Ripley and Queens Fiasco so no thanks...

@ignorantGuy

I think what we have here is indeed Cameron was saying he felt that Prometheus was interesting and he did not say Alien Covenant was awful....    I feel his comments are that BOTH movies on their Merits may be ok but BOTH are not the kind of Movie he would have made.

So its kind of similar to how RS has not said he dislikes Aliens or the Queen, but they are NOT Directions Ridley Scott would have taken.

It seems Cameron would feel the movies should stay more in touch with ALIENS, Queens maybe Ripley, and it seems Blomkamp is in the same boat... and so Fanboys as per say.

I think RS had different plans, i think he had different ideas and that Aliens just basically reduced the Xenomorph to some Lesser kind of Organism that just has a Hive Mentality and kills stuff, i get the feeling Ridley Scott envisioned something more for the Xenomorph at that time.

The Xenomorph ended up being over exploited, over shown and not kept to the shadows, and a Queen ended up taking some of the disturbing Procreation that RS had planned.

So i feel RS felt the Xenomorph element had been worn out, maybe RS saw more potential for it that followed similar to O'Bannons ideas, but it evolved to a killing Bio-Logical Organism like a Invasive species of insects.

So Ridley Scott noticed that NO-ONE ever answered the Question about the Origins, and also the Space Jockey Race... which during Production of the Prequels, we was introduced to the whole Ancient Aliens kind of Plot which RS felt was interesting... The Xenomorph prior felt and seemed like a Bio-Weapon and RS i feel just saw that after the Damage done to the Beast, that actually its role is JUST a Bio-Weapon.

So the Space Jockey was more interesting...

I feel that Cameron sees the Xenomorph as more interesting and needing to get the LIME LIGHT, the Franchise was Xenomorphs and Ripley.  And i think Cameron while he may not dislike the Prequels i feel that he felt they had gone off track by not being about the  Xenomorph, apart from Alien Covenant and that then the whole ANDROID created it Plot was maybe what Cameron felt was not the way to go.

Ridley Scott seemed to feel the Space Jockey Race and History and connections to Creation was more interesting, and also the Back Ground regarding the Weyland Company, and so the Xenomorph and Ripley were not really the Main Focus and certainly something that had been done over and over.

So while i think they respected each others movies and never hated them, i think they both simply had COMPLETELY Different ways they would have handled them.

@ Thoughts_Dreams

BigDave

Here's where I got the dates:

https://yutani.blog/alien-universe-timeline/

To me, it doesn't seem likely that Shaw would wait 4-6 months until entering the hypersleep chamber. The engineers can hardly have left anything edible considering 2000 years have passed, so Shaw has to leave the safety of the juggernaut and go back to Miss Vicker's life support shuttle. Well, I wouldn't. I'm not sure which I would rather meet: an angry engineer or a trilobite? As a matter of fact, if she had gone back she would be dead because of the deacon (bear in mind how the neomorphs reacted when they were small). The most rational thing for a scientist is probably to come up with a decision fast and then hope for the best (in retrospect she made the wrong decision and assembled David)?

Thoughts_Dreams

At least you did not make me ignorant beyond belief...:P

Sure the idea is interesting, that is something new.

R35: Yeah but that only goes for the Cameron idea but not egg-morphing.

Daliens:

If they say that he is an android then that is what I take it as no matter how human like that he is. Nope, I am interested mainly in the human characters and not AI but I see what you are trying to say though.

Charza: Yeah I have thought about getting the novelization of Alien Covenant. I think that Allan Dean Foster did that, they had an interview with him at AVPGalaxy podcast, that was interesting. Disney could have done a lot better with Star Wars, I am still annoyed that they killed Luke. Hopefully they will stay away from Alien but maybe it would be better if they would sell that to another company who knows how to make movies like that. Yeah they should be smart enough when to explore the human psyche, that is what I think that it is really about what humans do when they are under extreme stress/face things that they are not prepared for. Agreed there were potential both for AC and Prometheus, but it got lost along the way. When you look at cut scenes for Prometheus you probably find that a lot of it would have made a better movie.

“… who are the most unconvincing scientists ever put on screen.”

He he, I don’t look at F and M like scientists, they are more like people who shall take a bus to town but they take the wrong bus and end up in the woods or somewhere. They just got on that mission by accident but they had no clue what they were doing (or more like Weyland making fun of them or something, like a prank), it could be fun if you look at it like that but yeah their characters were not good.

They Mary Sue shit in Star Wars, yeah. I don’t mind that females get leading roles but when you make them like miss perfects then it doesn’t make me believe in these characters because everyone have flaws. Rey is probably the most obvious example of this, I didn’t feel anything for her what so ever even though I wanted to. Everything that she faced she went through it without a lot of problems, you can not make people feel sympathy for a character like that. Plus those a-holes killed Luke, grr.

I realize that some of that was a response to Big Dave but I felt that I wanted to make a comment on it if that is OK.

Ignorant Guy:

“Even Ash is stupid as he keeps suffocating Ripley (even when he is attacked) instead of finishing her and the rest of the crew quickly when his cover is blown.”

Not to be an ass but I am not sure if you can say stupid about an android, maybe it had more to do with his programming. Another possibility is that they did not think about that when they wrote the script. Sorry for being nit-picky, I see your point though.

Big Dave: I kind of agree about what you said about the lead characters but I disagree about Daniels. To me it felt like they did not put that much thought to her what she was about (the part where you put some example of the characters that they invested in). At least I did not get any idea what she was about and her character traits. Yeah her part felt like Holloway's part but I must say that I like her more than Holloway, but that is not a big accomplishment.

As far as the time thing, I would rather have a well done movie rather than one that is rushed. I hope that they will make a movie that is at least like aliens in quality. Keep in mind that I put Aliens as number 3 after Alien 3 and Alien.

David and Ridley: well as long as we get a movie that focuses better on characters then I don’t see that as  a problem. Some people might get disappointed if we get less of or no David but I wouldn’t mind. There has to be a way to improve this, right now it can’t get a lot worse but that is not to say that AC and Prometheus are the worst movies in history.

Further alien movies, yeah but how many do we need before it gets repetitive? If they get the last movie right then maybe we will not have to worry about any more alien movies.

Yes I agree that some of the mystery has been taken away by the prequels but that can be saved, they have got to think about it though. A specie above the Engineers could solve this. Having David responsible for the Xeno makes it less err alien, no pun intended. This is a mistake I feel so they got to undo that no matter what Scott says.

“So if Disney feel elements like this have not done justice to Mystery/Enigma that was the Derelict, the Space Jockey and Xenomorph Origin and Purpose, then maybe they would change this?“

Into what though? It could be improved but it could get worse. This is why I hope that we will get a specie above the Engineers and they have one of them that is the SJ so we will save some mystery to that. An alternative is that it is a part of the engineer secret military that we will not get to know that much about which is another way to save some mystery about it.

He he, the first comment was "have you farted?" then some seconds after we see someone that sits there with a gas mask. LOL! That was fun as hell, I never would have imagined that someone would put a fart joke in an alien related movie. Now I have seen it and I am very happy. ;)

I found something on Youtube that is about 50 minutes long, it is interesting.

It seems like it will continue, I am looking forward to that.

OK this is a longer answer

That could be like saying that it is many years before he original movie. Compare it to if you are waiting for something and it feels like you have waited a long time so then someone asks “how long have you been waiting?” you answer “100 years”, you simply says that it has been a long time. Maybe this is what he means here?

What I am saying is that we probably should not take it literally.

How about this?

“the date is seen on a monitor display just before the crew of the Nostromo is awoken from hypersleep.”

How are people able to see details like that? This is interesting to say the least and no I am not making fun of any person. I have watched the movie a lot of times but I have never seen it.

"Being created by a man made android, the xenomorph has become less alien."

This is exactly why I dislike that idea, keep some of it a mystery. I would rather have Jabba The Hutt creating them for some mysterious reason than David. LOL! Having David recreating something from the Engineers is totally fine.

Alien 1 to 3 work fine the way it is, in no way should they retcon anything of that. Sure Aliens is not the perfect movie but it works like a middle thing between Alien and Alien 3. Sure many people have problems with the prequels but imagine how many that would be mad at Scott if he did that to the sequels, that would be so stupid so I do not have words for it. By the way Alien 1 to 3 are a lot better than Prometheus and Covenant so he should stay away from that so no retconning and if that would happen I would be disappointed.

Don't make it to AI pulling the strings behind the wall at the company, that would be stupid.

IgnorantGuy: I do not know what Cameron said or not but I think that Cameron would have done it better (about Prometheus and Covenant) because they were lacking things although I prefer Prometheus compared to Covenant. Maybe he would have been better about how he was dealing with the characters.

I hope that we will see something like the spider face-hugger in the next movie. It has the potential to be nasty so we will see. Thanks Ati for posting this

BD:

Sure, it could be a bit interesting who was responsible for what.

I just don’t understand how they can screw the story up twice in a row, how is that possible? One should think that they should have learned something from what we got in Prometheus, but nope.

Yeah probably but he should not be in charge of the writing because he does not seem to be good at it. Leave him for the designs of the ships and so on.

Fox probably has a lot of say about how the story shall be, that is my guess also. Remember that they want to make money so they will be interested in that part. Nah I don’t think that the weak characters are Scott’s fault either but I would not be surprised if he has got something to do with it, which is not to say that he does. Leave him out of it and let him focus on the visuals.

Hopefully they will answer that. I would like to see if the Engineers are one or if there are sub-parts of the Engineers or what ever it might be. They still have time to do what ever they want with that and considering how many different things that Scott says then who knows? It would be strange if they do not show us anything about the Engineers in the next movie.

The Spider-Neomorph didn't get much exposure in Alien: Covenant because some things are just too scary. 

You're most welcome Ati. Great documentation.

Special Orders Progress Updates

I've tried to enhance the solar location of the above image and the characters are pixelated. I scanned over the image to try and match something to the Special Orders numbers or some other unique identifier...nothing yet.

Is there a version of the above image that's larger and we are able to more clearly see the characters to match Special Orders or the latitude/longitude on the below image?

If we are able to match something then we may deduct David was sending back a technical scientific item (organism above) while on Planet 4 in July of 2099 and the above image is of Planet 4. And the above image is a Special Order progress update.

Happy to be here V I N E T I C U M. Thank you.

As far as the codes go daliens, I believe any code David barked out would be above all others in Weyland-Yutani Corporation because he was the personal AI/android of the founder Peter Weyland. In regards to Walter's voice, David spoke to Mother in the book and told her to work out the specifics in the message to send home detailing a fatal flare incident.

Message Home (Advent, W-Y Secured Kyoto)

CASE FILE ADVENT - COVENANT TRANSMISSION LOGS d.8

D964ZB

Outpost Coordinate Relay

Signal boost Gliese 581g.02/delay modification

Origin: Covenant Colonization vessel

RA 3h 17m 8.0s | Dec -62° 37′ 41.1″

Bounce Trajectory Amplification Source KG-348

>>> HD 10180 designate HEX-5

>>> Nu Octantis designate X-1, LV-138

>>> Plutonian Outpost H-3

Processed: Suborbital Research Platform J

Secured: WY-Kyoto

Weyland Yutani Protocol Sequence Initiated

I also believe David wouldn't have to take part in recording Walter's voice because AI would send a layered message home where different corporate consumers (humans, AI) would be able to decipher based on clearance level. Mother could speak as if she were Walter and not disturb David while he was working.

Special Orders Updates, such as Advent, could be hidden in the message and unlocked based on controlled access.

Another photo of the facehugger from the creature workshop

Also, take a look at the spider thing:

Spider-Neomorph concept design:

I already mentioned this on Ati's topic. If I'm not mistaken, that's one of Carlos Huante's early concept designs for the Neomorph. Nice that they included it in David's lab among other things.

I thought the mystery creature from the article here looked like the Deacon from Prometheus.

Has there been any updates in regards to the Alien: Covenant VR product?

Awesome. Will watch this too. Thank you Ati.

The human weapons didn't affect the Engineer suit until they broke it down with mutagen and then opened fire.

Great catch Dark Nebula.

The statues comparison is phenomenal. The statue with the arms down is similar to the statue of Tiberius, below.

I went back over shots I had already enhanced and it's tough to get a good focus on the statues due to obscurity from darkness, distance, etc...see below.

Wayne Haag Alien: Concept Art

The statues are very far off in the above shot but I had to include it to show how (concept) the larger ship seemed to rise out of the middle of the plaza where the juggernauts were stored.

That is a great theory BigDave. Each statue could represent a sacrificial Engineer. That would fit with the immortalizing a Caesar with a statue in concept but with each statue representing a world opposed to a reign.

I see the sacrificial Engineers in the same way and yes, those on Planet 4, were very welcoming to the juggernaut operated by David. 

Video about Galaxy of Terror full of interesting background info:

Brandon's Cult Movie Reviews: Galaxy Of Terror - created by Brandon Tenold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prNIiyL2WvU

Yep, the Elders choose someone perfect for sacrifice, then send a ship and crew off to the far reaches to seed a perfect world, then the crew of that ship is celebrated upon their return, as Ridley said in commentary of AC that there was a welcoming process occurring as 2 million Engineers gathered at the plaza welcoming the ship's arrival. 

I can only imagine some Engineer waking up every morning at 5 am to do push-ups an jogging around the city, then going to the gym like crazy. And after many years of training, an Elder walks up to him, places the arm on his shoulder and says "Heroic son, you have been selected for great sacrifice that will start a new life!"

And that Engineer thinks to himself; "So I exercised many bloody years for this? Well, I better be greeted by virgins when I arrive in heaven. And build me a very nice statue of myself."

Early concept art for David's lab had the skinned engineer positioned as Augustus of Prima Porta, and he was placed in the middle of the table.

Other concept art with statues on pillars

Thank you. I'll be your valentine dk.

@BigDave

But Cameron did say he would have never made Covenant (which is not very complementary) and that Prometheus in the end did not make sense (I was just paraphrasing...).

And the 100 year stuff makes sense because of the context, as in less then 20 years you would have to establish mining operations in space and wear out the Nostromo as seen in A79, which is not very likely.

Thank you, Ati, for the link- I missed that thread.

There was a few times they planned to do other movies, we can but just wonder what they may have been....

It would have been interesting to see what RS vision would have been after ALIEN, i know he had 2 ideas where to go next, before he ended up being busy with his schedule and so James Cameron got to make his ALIENS

Looking at comments RS made after ALIENS regarding the direction he was going and again at around the time of ALIEN 3  on of his ideas was to go to the Planet of the Xenomorph.

But with the route they took with Prometheus, you have to wonder how many ideas that went into the Brain-storming that lead to  Spaights Alien Engineers had been ideas RS had for the Franchise, many many years prior?

I am glad some of these other ideas never came off as they would have made the Franchise even more about RIPLEY... i also think they need something different and so NO Blomkamps Alien 5

The only Return for Ripley i would see, would be a direct Alien 5, which i had put down a few times a idea here, which would turn her Story Full Circle.... it would mean no effort to De-Age and give us a Young Ripley, and NO old age Ripley either.

A Plot where Ripley 8 would be CGI for a bit, then gradually replaced with make up, as she changes, evolves in skin texture and color until the Xenomorph DNA Re-writes so much of her Human DNA that she is now a HYBRID

A Plot Twist where Call was actually on the Betty not to Sabotage the USM Companies Agenda...  But to actually Obtain Ripley 8, and the reveal the Cult that Call is from is a Synthetic Cult that hold Worship to David 8, as the Original Creator of the Xenomorph and also behind what lead to Synthetics gaining more Free-will and Freedom.

Very Nice Catch ;)

I would even re-use the opening line of my (got to get motivated to flesh it out... ALIEN: ASCENSION aka Alien Covenant 2)

In the Beginning there was the WORD

Thus if applied (as i was considering for my Origins Idea) that GOD is a Machine, a Program which started with a WORD..   one thing that could be added to your idea that was not really in Mine....

Is Alternative Universes.... i was not to cover this... but if we apply a similar God like Machine to your idea, then Alternative Universes kind of would fit with what we saw in Event Horizon.

This could be the Hubris of a GOD that provided their downfall, not contempt with creating the Universe, and everything created from its (God like Machine)  this would be GOD decides ONE Universe is not enough and even by Intention attempts to create Alternatives, or my accident, but this causes the Ship to be Stuck at a Event Horizon at a Huge Black Hole, that was the result of a attempted or accidental creation of a Multiverse..

This would explain strange Paranormal things, alternative Worlds you describe, and would be that the Paradox Causes by this GOD has sent it MAD, as it is writing worlds, within worlds, not one Program but Multiple that are interacting with each other.  Imagine such a Intelligent GOD like Machine, now  Multiplied itself but stuck at one point in the Universe Spanning and Shifting in and out of the Multiverse it has created in its Hubris..

Yeah it sound a bit to Matrix though lol

I do think to some degree its a interesting concept... i do think the ALIEN Franchise and PREDATOR are large enough to incorporate something similar but not the Event Horizon.  As per the 1997 Movie.

But certainly what about a very Giger-esque version of something similar.

I have been working on some ideas, regarding the Origins of the Engineers and Everything that very much connects to the Alien Poster ;)  I just never got round to fleshing it out yet.

But surface to say it would have touched on the comments RS made regarding prior to Alien Covenant.... regarding if the Engineers are the Forerunners to Mankind, then whom made it possible for Worlds to be able to be SEEDED and RS then asked... where is the BIG GUY

And also considering when RS said after Prometheus regarding the next movie, and how Dr Shaw and David would be off to find these beings, who would not be GOD's in the Traditional Sense... But David is bringing HELL with him... and what happens if the BLACK GOO infects GOD or a MACHINE.

This appeared to be something never followed upon and i know many were disappointed at how Prometheus was just not Alieny as far as Out-of this World... a Far Cry from the Enigma that was the Derelict and Space Jockey.

So i wont cover my idea yet... lol i have 5 Alien movie ideas going on at the moment ;)

But i will say and i dont mean to Hijack this thread CHRIS ;)  But kind of the idea i had could play well with your Event Horizon.

So looking back at the comments i made above, in relation to RS comments....   Where is the Big Guy (GOD) what happens to a Machine or God....?   What if GOD is actually a MACHINE?

And so i think your Plot would be more Original if we kept within the Alien Franchise, and pondered as RS had said before regarding the Big Bang was this a Accident?  So instead of the Event Horizon we replace it with a Bio-Mechanical Ship, Ancient, Intelligent and well gone a bit Crazy...   If this is teased as the Source of the Big Bang, it means a Ship that Creates the Creation of New Galaxies... which start with a Massive Explosion a Hyper Nova like Event... where any would be Travelers could track down this Ship stuck at the Event Horizon of the last event of Creation it attempted.

Plenty scope to give us Giger-esque vibes and some kind of Paranormal Entity.... and so introduce us to  a TRUE GOD. 

This idea is basically the same as one of my ideas, that incorperates a few more things, that explain how worlds are created, the source of the Black Goo etc..   

But what i am saying is in your idea, i think there is plenty of scope to actually introduce a Ship similar to the Event Horizon and give it some ATHEISTIC that would make HR Giger Proud and then allow your imagination to flow ;)

I dont recall RS saying he hated the Queen, i actually remember him saying on two occasions it made sense, and he liked how it looked.

Ridley Scott however is not a BIG fan of Aliens in General, he does not dislike it, its just not the route he would have taken,  he often refers to the Beast being cooked, and how it was more effective in Alien because we dont see it often.

He also refers to the other Alien movies as Shoot-em-ups.

So i think RS just felt that the Xenomorph was shown too much in Alien, and so once revealed too much it looses that Mystery about it.   I think to be fair Alien  3 did not show the Xenomorph much and it was far from a Shoot-em-up but i agree Alien Resurection was.

As for the AVP's Ridley Scott often refuses to speak about them, and he claims he has never seen and has no intention to seeing them.

i think when RS mentions the Beast was cooked with a Apple in its mouth and stuffing etc, he was referring to how it was handled after Alien 3, includes the AVP movies.

I have never seen RS ever say the Queen Concept was bad, ever... i think its just not what he had in mind, a lot of people do make a lot out of James Cameron and Ridley Scott as if they dont really like each others Projects but that is actually far from the Truth, as they had came close on TWO occasions to working together on a Project.

Cameron also had positive things to say about Prometheus and he has never said Alien Covenant was bad.

We can maybe assume the Bio-Mechanical Evolution of the Xenomorph would lead to more Potent Acid?

But then the Face Hugger Acid in Alien Covenant is maybe just another Oversight

That's what I've read as well.He was a bit disappointed that no one wanted to explore what the Space Jockey was which is what he has now done.