Comments (Page 640)

well ur gna have to accept that with the material at hand to both sides of the argument, neither can be proved or disproved. u have a theory and some else has a theory. theres is no evidence to prove u wrong but by lack of evidence, u cant prove urself right either, nor can anyone who has a counter theory. that's whats messed up with the goo. its still open to interpretation due to the different effects it has. even ur argument that its purely down to the amount of goo used to infect others isn't based on concrete evidence really.  

I'm sure ali81. They had known about an Engineer system for decades (publicly).

Thank you for posting this, looking forward to reading it!

After the Phobos clip, 100% conspiracy.

W-Y have known since the failed Prometheus mission IMO. Im hope we will find out more in ADF's Origin novel, but it looks like the Covenant crew were tested and chosen for their psyche responses to xenomorph related phobias at the very least - suggesting foresight of what they may expect to encounter.

@ ali81

Nah, my idea is that the black goo infects the worms, they lay eggs, which is their method of reproduction (I'm guessing they're hermaphrodites, so they all lay eggs or something), the eggs hatch out into baby hammerpedes, which grow bigger. The hammerpede then tries to infect another host, just as we see one go down the throat of Millburn. Millburn would then burst out with some kind of neomorph or deacon kind of thing, that we never get to see. Ok I admit I have not much evidence for this theory other than just connecting dots and making assumptions. I could be wrong, the hammerpedes could be just mutated worms and due to their different genome...their mutation is different to humans etc. But I want to see my theory refuted with counter-evidence first, before I ditch it. But anyway I have enough evidence for there being only one black goo, so I'm sticking to that idea much more strongly.

id suggest the company was up to something long before Prometheus then as when the covenant is hit by the energy burst, they discover planet 4 for the first time which makes me doubt its the same planet as it is uncharted. UNLESS, the company is up to something and hide its existance

people also have to remember the thing about various drafts. the vast majority of people who see the film haven't read the earlier drafts so these drafts really cant be taken as gospel unless shown onscreen or deliberately added in an accompanying extras dvd.

ali81, I believe that the planet shown in the beginning of Prometheus may be the planet Paradise in Alien: Covenant.

That is, if the planet that David opened his eyes to is Paradise.

ingeniero, when u say paradise, which planet do u mean?

Just gonna slide this in here:

Engineer City Concept Art for Alien: Covenant by Wayne Haag

The Body of Christ Borne to the Tomb by William Blake

https://muthur9000.tumblr.com/post/163518174400/engineer-city-concept-art-for-alien-covenant-by

"It’s watchful, careful. It settles near Ledward’s ear, and
then enters the ear canal... the soft pink flesh... quickly
attaches itself -- a feeding tube plunging into his flesh--""

Indeed some interesting changes, a thing to remember is this seems to add up to some of the drawings by David, and we have to remember its likely Production started to do its concept work etc based on potentially earlier drafts which could include this one.

I also thought the images of Dr Shaw are indeed just Davids Fantasies as a way for me to explain how come we see nothing like them done to Dr Shaw.. so its nice to find out this indeed is what they are.

@Michelle

I have yet to read this draft yet, and so i cant comment on the simplicity of how Dr Shaw got infected, so my assumption was only looking really at what evidence Alien Covenant gave us, so i assumed Something was grown from David Experimenting on her then this was then unleashed on Dr Shaw.

It appears from what you say that the Draft in question, has it simply that due to the Black Goo it contaminated the Planet and Egg like things grew out of the ground.

As far as the Source, again a lot was to be taken with a Pinch of Salt, and was based as far as they claim on the October 2014 Paglen/Green draft and since then RS had changed the direction of the Plot to basically brush the Engineers and Shaw and Prometheus themes under the carpet apart from those that have to directly apply to what use the Black Goo could have to reach the Ends to what David had done.

Looking at the Source as far as everything they said, i can see some connections, but also many differences and again the only way to confirm if any of it was true would only be IF and When a Paglen/Green Drafts come to light.

But the hints about Engineer Culture seem to be close, especially when considering concept works and also the Source had mentioned more than One David,  TWO Xeno Monsters (and the differences) hints at what happened to Dr Shaw, and i see connections to these in the concepts and art work in Davids workshop...

But alas.... until we get any earlier drafts, it is by no means to be taken as based on any Fact....   If there was no Jon Spaights Draft or related concept work released but someone explained what Jon Spaights draft was about then it would too not really add up with Prometheus.

So who knows if we ever see Paglen and Green Drafts, i would be interested in them, just to see how accurate or not the Source was as the vague clues well way they gave them did seem to make for a interesting way forwards.

That the John Logan more basic approach seemed to lack... I will be looking to read this draft and see how more Basic and Spoon Fed kind of Plot it was, or how interesting it is.

As indeed the ADF book seemed to add some interesting things that was a shame they was not what we saw in the Movie.

Good point ali81.

"Holloway and shaw date the drawings to when man was up and about and gathered in social groups though it could very well have been the engineers who drew them, very possible."

It certainly seemed like Earth's early inhabitants saw Engineer technology.

"Ridley said that these Engineers would visit their settlements occasionally to see how they would progress and if things needed to be reigned in. So during these visits I could see the Engineers being revered as gods by the local inhabitants at the time and have them immortalized in drawings/carvings/what have you."

Yes he did Lawrence of Arabia and very well written. Thank you.

Exactly BigDave. 

"Indeed i can see the comparison, the Black Goo does indeed replicate into a liquid inside the Engineer and this breaks down his Molecular Structure and these broken down particles then fly off into the wind/air.. but they do also look like they are flying away like say a swarm of tiny insects."

A special thanks to Kethol for bringing this (below) up in another topic. I looked at the Prometheus sequence again after reading that in search of motes...

"I guess these are a version of what John Spaith's talked about in the Prometheus commentary when we see the little dots swarming away from the Engineers body as he disintegrates - "The black material that consumed him transmuted into little scarab-like gnats that flew away across the earth…"."

u gna sleep with that scary thing in the house? hahahaha think ul have nightmares of it coming to life at least once

Amazon. I just ordered what they said was the last one. I suspect a forum member may see it in the nearish future ;)

the fact they kept returning would lean towards human creation not being an accident, or it was due to a splinter faction operating outside their mandate which would mean accident. id say the initial impression given and the one that shaw states is that theyv changed their minds about us was accurate. wev done something to disappoint them and their going to wipe the slate clean. how wev turned out was possibly what was meant when david says humans (modern day humans) were an accident. maybe those who seed worlds went out farther than they usually delve into space and due to the distance, they couldn't visit us as often as they could other worlds therefore were unable to maintain our evolution on a path they deemed satisfactory? so they lost their children as they were absent parents.

Where did you get that dk? It's class!

I'm not sure if anyone posted this link regarding the artwork depicted in Alien: Covenant.

https://vimeo.com/228756074

It is great.

Love that opening scene, sets the tone for the whole movie! I think it could be paradise too but I don't have any real evidence or arguments for it, beautiful scene though 

I am a bit disappointed with it since I cannot find a pose for it to stand upright. 

Badass lol Love that it came with a bloodburster!

Excellent topic Gavin, an intriguing one! I would be leaning towards conspiracy also, perhaps David extending the "olive branch" was the beginning of curiosity which then over the next few years til Alien began the conspiracy by the company to be the first to reap any benefit of discovering a new weapon or species in a clandestine way, similar to how corporations operate today! 

Great opening scene! I also really like the one with the older looking engineers. Gives it more meaning.

I wonder why David said that the humans were an accident. Did he mean the engineers made humans by accident or that the engineers were disappointed with the humans... or both? (sorry, english is not my first language)

Thank you dk.

I too think the planet shown in the Engineer sacrifice is Paradise. There are birds over the water behind Peter and David. Are these images from probes when there was life on Paradise?

The pyramid and background in the beginning sequence of Prometheus (below) and the pyramid behind Peter Weyland in the opening of Alien: Covenant look like a match. 

Indeed i can see the comparison, the Black Goo does indeed replicate into a liquid inside the Engineer and this breaks down his Molecular Structure and these broken down particles then fly off into the wind/air.. but they do also look like they are flying away like say a swarm of tiny insects.

As far as the whole Earth thing, well it was on Earth, but then Paradise was Earth and even LV-426 was on Earth lol

But i know what is meant, and indeed the scene was intended to be on Earth... but its also to show that this is how the Engineers Seed Worlds and so while this happened on Earth, it also happened on many other Worlds too.

it depends with what Ridley Scott meant and how it applies to the Engineers we see on Paradise/Planet 4, because RS could change it to being on Paradise (Sacrificial Scene) and this leads to Engineers who then end up setting up colonies on other Worlds and Evolve.

that's the way I took it lawrence

Ridley said that these Engineers would visit their settlements occasionally to see how they would progress and if things needed to be reigned in. So during these visits I could see the Engineers being revered as gods by the local inhabitants at the time and have them immortalized in drawings/carvings/what have you.

A fully comprehensive tracking of DVD sales is actually impossible because of how retailers buy in the DVDs. Something of a rough guide is to look at the top selling sales charts to give some reasonable idea of a popularity indicator.

http://www.officialcharts.com/charts/film-on-video-chart/

whether earth or not the process would be the same to seed earth no?

Holloway and shaw date the drawings to when man was up and about and gathered in social groups though it could very well have been the engineers who drew them, very possible.

any of what? sorry I haven't read the early script. do u have a link other than the avpg one? im at work and cant access it through the avpg site

ali81 Agree although it could arguably be Paradise. You bring up another question unrelated to the OP: might the others have scrawled the cave drawings during that visit before leaving the planet if it was indeed Earth?

The draft of the Covenant script just leaked shows us that they thought all that through - about the home world having a defese system to prevent contamination entering or leaving - then never used any of it in the movie.

love the opening sequence as I love Prometheus. im guessing most people are in agreement that this is earth? I know ridley says he gets annoyed at the immediate assumption it is earth and could be anywhere but given the context of the film id say its earth and would be pretty redundant for it to be anywhere else

It really is a beautiful opening. "The Engineers believe sacrifice will cleanse them of their sins."

Good question. I also asked the forum about pre order numbers- I don't know if those are even tracked.

I suspect DVD sales would be at least a week late if they are anything like game sales.

Very informative read, thanks Kethol :-) Glad Ridley has a level head and couldn't care less for critics and his thoughts on film success and profit is right on the money.

u would think it would have been a must when designing the thing. someone surely asked the question 'so what if it gets onto our home world?'

They may have thought through a way to reverse or counteract it. ADF wrote this in the novel - "As you have seen, the seed incubates, mutates,  and matures with astonishing speed, until it is reborn. If not controlled, a single application is quite capable of rendering an entire world uninhabitable." - David

This implies that it is possible for the spread of the virus to be controlled, if desired.

I can see what ur getting at. the black goo infects the worms and hammerpedes burst out of the worms?

Nope. John Logan is writing the next one, according to Ridley. But it will probably get rewritten numerous times by other writers, as they all have.

@ Kethol

You're just being a professional troll now. You just keep making the same claims over and over without adding actual evidence. I've already disproven your theory of multiple goos by pointing to the dosage difference of Fifield and Holloway.

The hammerpedes were just mutated worms were they? Then why did we see all those worms writhing about in the goo and not growing into hammerpedes before our eyes? Obviously they were mutating, but the mutation doesn't make them into giant worms. The Fox Evolution guide says Hammerpedes are the "Result of indigenous worms being exposed to the Black liquid", and I agree. The result is that the mutated worms lay eggs (Their reproductive system) which then hatch into hammerpedes. This is what we saw in Holloways eye, a baby hammerpede. Obviously the black goo that David put in his drink had microscopic worm eggs in there too, so he got infected with hammerpedes as well. He obviously didn't live long enough to suffer large hammerpedes erupting from him however. Hamerpedes are to worms as trilobites are to male humans.

1. Use logic while arguing.

2. Use evidence.

3. Admit it when you are wrong.

I do all 3 of these with pleasure.