Comments (Page 646)

I think it came down to trying to do something different.

Alien 3 had killed off Ripley, and so when returning back to the Franchise FOX felt they needed to return Ripley and the Xenomorph and had to come up with a way to do this, the movie was trying something New.. but Alien Resurrection got some things wrong and Ultimately was a Popcorn Flick where Characters was a bit more Goofy for some and some was not done so well... it was all a bit....  Super Hero Movie ish...

The Idea had some good things, but it was flawed, i never buy the whole Clone idea it was silly, i rather have them Clone her and have the failed clones and then a process where each new Clone they refine the process to separate Human/Xeno DNA.. i found the whole Cloned to be carrying a Xeno Queen flawed.

I think the same thing happened with each movie after, they had some good ideas, that just needed a better Script for them.

But i have not seen any of the Books etc...

And so the Nano-Wasps is interesting, some concept work do seem to indicate the Spores Release Nano-Insects and so what i had logically thought about from seeing the Movie and how the Goo worked in Prometheus could be Wrong..

If we go to the Nano-Wasps...  Maybe this could fit, as i think we need to look back to the Origins of the Goo.

This comes from Jon Spaights Alien Engineers, where the Sacrificial Cup has Millions of Nano-Scarabs who swarm over the Host and they consume the Host, eating away in their Millilons at the Host until there is nothing left.. The Hosts entire Molecular Structure consumed by these Nano-Scarabs.

These Scarabs then have Stored in them, the Sacrificial Hosts DNA/Genome... and it is show a Scarab with Engineer consumed DNA bites a Early Female Primate and injects the Cargo of Engineer DNA.... the Primate mutates and Evolves into a Hybrid part Engineer and Part Primate and thus leads to Mankind.

Latter Fifield knocks over a Urn with Scarabs and some of them Bite Him and Inject him with DNA that Evolves him into something with Xeno DNA... Thus its logical those Scarabs within that Urn had consumed some Organism related to the Xenomorph.

Prometheus gave us the Goo but the concept and idea appeared to be the same as Jon Spaights Nano-Scarabs.

When David examined the Ampoule and took out some of the Black Stuff, it formed into like a Goo on his finger and we could see movement inside, like there was Nano-Parasites in it.

We see latter Holloways Eyeworm and other concept/prop work he eventually started to have these growing from out of his Skin....

This leads us to the possibility that Holloways Sperm was infected with these Parasites... or that indeed these Parasites are actually Nano-worms and Holloway passed these to Shaw Womb like transmitting a Sexually Transmitted Disease

And so indeed having some Nano-Organisms as the Carrier of the Parasitic Mutagen could be what we are seeing.  I had a Source from 2.5+ years ago who gave a in-depth explanation to the Xenomorph Parasite Origins and indeed now we see all this concept work it does add up with what they claimed.

Indeed its interesting for sure, i think there are so many clues and stuff over the last two movies that kind of contradict each other a little?  It gets you thinking do they have a ACTUAL idea of how all this works?

The Spores i assumed are the result of the Black Goo infecting some type of Fungi, we see the Crashed Juggernaught had crashed up the side of the mountain and scrapped inside some, dirt and other debris from the Mountain...  The Mountain has a Stream running down it and the Juggernaught has crashed over this, and so parts of the water from the stream is flowing over the Juggernaught and leaking inside, while some is flowing under the Juggernaught.

This stream works its way all the way down to the stream Bed.

Ledwood was infected by stepping on a Spore that was by the side of the Stream, where naturally by the side of streams we get various kinds of Growth, which include Moss/Algae and indeed Spores/Fungi which happens on Earth too.

So i assumed some Black Goo infected the Water which then infected any Spore/Fungi/Mold growing near by the Water to then Evolve into the Spores.

Hallets infection was again via Spores growing from near Moss/Mold by the side of running water.

And so i assumed as Mold/Fungi are not Technically Plants, they are infected and become the Spores in Alien Covenant.

We see Davids lab also has a number of Urns and so he has also been using the Black Goo to Experiment on things too.

I saw the Spores as releasing Tiny infected Particles that infect the Host by Combing together to form a Mass of Particles/Cells and then take DNA Traits from the Host to Evolve this matter into the Neomorphs..

I say this because if its a individual Mote/Particle, then how come the infected Hosts did not Grow more than One Organism?

Oh dear LOL

I think there are a lot of clues if people look at the Ancient Mankind/Ancient Astronaut connections and look at the Theme the last TWO movies showed us... which includes Prometheus Mythos and the Biblical Paradise Lost one...

We are seeing a reoccurring theme over and over,  David 8 is the bottom of the Hierarchy Creation Chain, created in Mankinds Image for a Specific Purpose, who starts to show signs of Rebellion and becoming Sentient...

David is not supposed to be going around acting on his own accord for his own Agenda and Personal Wants.. he was intended as a Tool....     And David was also not intended to be able to Use the Engineers Technology and Tools either.

Mankind was visited by the Engineers we had been evolved by them and we had been taught things but never taught every bit of Knowledge or Technology, we had been kept to a certain more primitive kind of Culture, 2000+ years ago.

The Engineers would visit us with their Technologically advanced ships, but they did not divulge this Technology for us and we was never supposed to be taught such Advanced Technology.

We was kept to a Technical Level similar to what most of those beings on Paradise had, the Engineers never would have thought Mankind could Evolve to have the Technology we have once the Engineers Abandoned us.

We dont know the full Purpose for our Creation yet... there could be a number of reasons for it...

So NOW we can look at the Planet 4 Engineers and we see a Race who indeed live a more Amish Life-style where the Engineers Ancient Culture and Religious ways are what these beings Follow..  With limited use of Technology.

Apart from what appears to be Technology above the very important and Sacred Dome Cathedral Building, and the Hanger area with those Statues.

And the Engineers Ships...

So we are left to Ponder a few things....

1) Is their a Caste of Engineers above those Paradise/Planet 4 Engineers, is this caste related more to the LV-223 Engineers and Sacrificial One?

2) Or is it that a selected Caste/Few Engineers are permitted and in-trusted with the use of this Technology?

And then could some of these had Used this Technology for their own Benefit and against the Will/Intentions of the Technology?

I think this is a high possibility.  The Creation, Sub-Creation and using of Technology/Knowledge not intended or forbidden to be used by the various ladders of Creation/Hierarchy seems pretty evident here.

I enjoy Shaw's fate and Daniels inevitable one, it makes you uncomfortable and sad for these people who struggle against the futility of it all. It's dark and it fits, Alien shouldn't have happy endings imo. I get how people can get invested in these characters but these aren't superhero films.

Ha ha...

"Nope. No high nose bridge, a characteristic of all the Engineers."

Not so defined in Alien Covenant, as they had mild Engineer Features ;)

But totally agree, just because these beings are Bald and Heavy Built does not make them Engineers...  The tanks are merely where they are growing the the latest Nexus Replicants is all, and these are like the Blank Canvas versions where they then add hair after etc.

So they are no More Engineers, than Ripley is here.

However thats not to say there could be a kind of connection as far as potentially and who knows.. if RS will show us the Sacrificial Engineer and LV-223 Engineers are Bio-Engineered Super Engineers and so are related to the Engineers in Alien Covenant..  just as the Nexus Replicants are to Humans. etc.

The Problem with Terminator is the same as the Problem with the Xenomorph and Alien  Franchise.... with the aging of the Cast, its hard to make any prequel or movie set not to far after the previous ones.... and so what applies to Sarah Conner will apply to Ellen Ripley Also.

Terminator tried to add a few New things to it, by giving us different Terminators, and the last one they tried to introduce some of the old Models  (T-800 and T-2000) but also throw in the John Connor Curve-ball which is not to different to David 8 in Alien Covenant.

There is only so much you can do with Terminator T-800's and Sarah Conner and the same applies to Traditional Xenomorphs and Ellen Ripley.

I think its open to debate what Cameron means by its not the movie he would have made, without saying why.  Then it leaves it very open.. maybe he could mean the whole Dr Shaw Character from Prometheus but he could also be on about the investment and marketing into WALTER only to have him killed off (or so we may assume) also the ending does set up that Daniels will not be surviving the next movie.  I hope they find a better way to deal with her than they did with Dr Shaw, by that i mean just have her play as a Corpse or not even appear.

It will be interesting to see where they take the Franchise now for sure, i dont think Cameron will ever be playing a part as he has his own projects to work on.

I would agree that Prometheus is the second best of the series as well. Covenant was good. Should have been great.

drucea, it works fine and dandy if its walters body and davids mind. its harder to conclude that what david has to do and given he has a very limited time to do it for it to be totally believable that it is davids body. I accept it is as RS has stated it is but its just a part of what I don't like about AC. its like he and fox r thinking the viewer is stupid when their not. the point I was making about another twist was if it had been walters body, maybe he had come to reason with david and had joined him which would have added another twist to the next movie possibly.

bash lol whats british English? u mean English English?

joylitt

When I watched Advent and picked up the deconstruction of the Alien Pathogen I to made the connection with Transcendence.

There was a point in the evolution of the script when I looked at both Paglen and Green's recent work and then considered Ridleys remark about David infecting the machine which evolved into bringing hell.

I think what we are picking up in the detail being offered is little fragments of the big ideas that would have driven the movie pre John Logan and Alien Prefix. 

The transformative journey of Shaw the creation of multiple Davids and a much closer and more detailed look at the Engineers and the source of their power which David would have tampered with. This notion of the Pathogen being radical A I may echo how David was going to affect the machine, the source of the Engineers power. If you have considered any of Big Dave' tips down they years from his source they hint at all these elements.

David was going to use what he learned from the Xeno strain, as Damon called it, on the Engineers but in a much more subtle way than what we received, the bombing contracting the Engineers element down (and Shaw) and made space and fed into David and his Xeno creation arc. 

You guys may very well be correct. I remember in Prometheus, before opening the door to the Ampule Chamber, David came upon this nanotech-esque goo that activated the holograms. Also the way he opened the door could only be through tech but it all looks ancient. Their technology could very well be more 'natural'.

Hello, i think Walter was hacked- somehow David created a copy of his memory and installed to Walters body. 
David always talked British English while Walter, American English that's why the android in the end of the movie always talked as Walter but with David's data and information. About the Cabin in the Lake, the android knew about it, made the face as he wanted to say- Dream on Daniels.

I did indeed misread your post. I thought you meant some plot twist for the next movie. I'm just not understanding how Scott's explanation doesn't make sense.

drucea, yes just like the golden ratio in nature and biology.

I just watched the Herrozzy (sp?) video comparing all of the A:C scenes to the Divine Comedy artwork.  The end of this video shows the bombing scene which I guess I didn't really pay close attention to before.  But however the method of ingestion or infection from the black goo cloud, as the camera skims around through the dieing bodies, the heads move and explode just like the Engineers head on LV-223 they bring back to the ship.  Their skin on the heads starts to crack and bubble then explode, some spew from the mouth, most of the black goo that spews from the mouths or openings seems to harden instantly as it grows into a grotesque shape.

Imo, A:C didn't abandon anything. I think people were just expecting a straight up sequel as opposed to what would have naturally happened. Shaw was never gonna get her answers and most of the questions posed in Prometheus were answered in film but not straight forward. What did you think was gonna happen on the Juggernaught with David on board? David detests all mortals and self-proclaimed gods. Prometheus was always meant to be an Alien prequel and Covenant was the logical next step. We'll get more of the Engineers in the next film but I think Ridley brought the Xenomorph in sooner due to fan whining and to create a better next film. If Prometheus 2 was just about the Engineers and no Alien people would flip out that there aren't any Xenos and then the 3rd film with Xenos would come around and people would be up in arms like now. These prequels are about expanding the lore and the Alien and why things are the way they are in the original films.

ali81 - 

I have not got a clue. No idea.

A guess ? Some engineer tech. Causes the event. David triggers this. No evidence just a hunch

However, that means that David has been off world.

Which is something i also believe. Less so after the novel. However fairly logical.

The only evidence we have for David being on Planet 4 for 10 years is David.

Yes he spent time on Planet 4 the evidence is there. But did he spend all 10 years? The novel states David saying the other craft were grounded to stop the infection spreading.

Really? Maybe but i think maybe not.

They Welcomed the craft. They did not think of it as a danger. But regardless, this is the debate: Is David being honest about the craft getting grounded? We do not for certain either way.

 i think he is. i reckon he may of been off world to other Engineer outposts or at least working on his "masterplan"

Beautiful video lol Definitely dug his drawings too (the stick figures of him and Shaw XD)

Cosmonaut-Copper I thought the same thing when I saw the film the first time lol

the xeno is not done. The Ripley story is. The reason Fox studios should have let RS kill Ripley off in Alien is so the franchise could focus on the xeno, NOT RIPLEY.When there is a creature designed with acid for blood, does not give off body heat,(thanx to Aliens), can breath in space, no eyes etc, there is so much to explore. That's why Underworld is a disaster. Instead of focusing on a Vampire, wolf hybred they focus on a wolf killer. The hybred is something never seen before. And of course the whole storyline of the wolf, vampire connection...

Hello everyone, I'm glad you like the silly video. I also made a short comic about something funny Ati said here in this forum (I think it was you Ati? I've been lurking on this site for quite a while now).

 Starlogger I concur. Prometheus is much more than what is on the surface and Covenant as well. They are works of art imo.

@Lawrence So agree. I think Prometheus is the second best movie in the series, beneath Alien. It is a thoughtful, sprawling, "world building" movie that is so rich, so elegant, so sophisticated, so smart, and so well done that it went over the heads of most movie goers who just wanted "Aliens" (aliens the movie AND xenomorph creatures), which, sadly caused it to confuse a lot of people who should've known better had they been paying attention.

so what did he use to trigger the energy burst? regardless of what it is reported as whether truthfull or not on MUTHERs part, he still has to create enough energy to damage the covenant

I love Alien 3 but I wouldn't rank Prometheus and Covenant lower. Say what you will about the characters but they served their point, to prove that humanity is lacking and full of arrogant cunts lol Covenant less so of course but they are sheep grasping for resurrection. The David character is fascinating and it's a nice change of pace to have a synthetic the main focus as we've already had four films prior where the humans were the protagonist and the synthetics took a back seat. I'd prefer a synthetic antagonist/protagonist instead of the generic human one.

There are many ways around it. We are led to believe that a certain event has lead to the damage of the covenant.

If it WAS random, then this is the situation:

Now, i think that what are the odds that an event happens to a colony ship when it is only 2 weeks (tiny in space time) from the Planet that David, Weylands son, happens to be on????? All that space and time and a random event happens exactly at the time the colony ship is passing a hidden planet with Weylands son. That writing would be laughed at surely?

Come on that is ridiculous at best !! How corny does that sound ? It is far more likely that a plan, at some level, whether that be David, WY, David and the WY AI inc. MU TH UR, an interested party shall we say had some involvement and triggered the event at the exact right time.

Now all we have is MU TH URs interpretation of the blast ?

Now has that been processed properly ?

Either David triggered an event that was read by muthur and processed as it was, but in fact was David.

OR David caused the event and muthur reported it as something it wasnt.

KI dont know which one is correct but i say there are far more likely outcomes than if this was random. please.

"I think its more a supernatural substance, david being N android has tried to classify it scientifically"

I don't think there is anything supernatural about the pathogen at all. The terms David uses in Advent are all typical stuff in genetics and biology.

"This primordial ooze, ripe with advanced nano particles, operating off on an algorithm based on evolutionary computing. It is essentially a form of radical A.I., making the substance unbelievably chaotic. It generates a unique reaction to every genome it encounters. Reshaping life."  - David

'Primordial ooze' is just the building blocks of life - organic compounds and amino acids that form protein structures. That term has been around since the 1950s when scientist tried to re-create the original primordial material that they think life originated from on Earth. It is also called promordial sludge, primordial soup, and... primordial GOO.

A 'nanoparticle' is just a small, nano-sized, single particle of carbon and phosphate that behaves as a whole unit. These are organic particles, not little metal robots. In genome editing and gene recombination, we use nanoparticles like siRNA, miRNA, and ribozymes, and  riboswitches to deliver protein packages across cell wall barriers and targeted to specific areas of specific cells that require genome editing. They are basically used to rewrite DNA, which is what David said the pathogen does to the host in Covenant. He is just being more specific in Advent by saying 'advanced nano particles that generate a unique reaction to every genome'.

When David says "A.I." and 'evolutionary computing' he is talking about the same type of thing. Evolutionary computing is a computer science term that is used in the field of Artificial Intelligence. It means it uses algorithms based on biological evolution to predictively organize amino acid sequences and protein structures in DNA in an intelligent manner to rewrite it. The pathogen version of this can also intelligently adapt to resistance to these algorithms, and since it was created artificially for the Engineer's biomechanical biotechnology application, it is technically 'artificial' and 'intelligent'. That may not be the 'self aware' type of A.I. that most people think of when they hear that term, but there is still an organized intelligence to what it does, like a hive intelligence.

Those algorithms used in evolutionary computing come from real biological genetic operations, like mutation and crossover. Crossover takes chromosomes from more than one parent organism and produces a chromosome that combines features of those parents. That is exactly what the parasitic form of the pathogen does and how David bred his own version.

love deadpool so id say the director could do a good job

Don't forget we do cover Terminator HERE

Cameron will be writing the treatment, but not the script. ATM the director looks set to be Tim Miller (Deadpool). Early details are that it will be the first in a reboot trilogy that will consider the first two movies as canon. Arnold is said to be returning as the human the Model 101 was based on, with Arnold also claiming production will start early next year.

As with all forums, if there is the demand we will add one.

To the OP. I don't know about it receiving its own forum. You might ask staff or admin.

just had a quick look on google and came up with a source. looks like it could be a prequel as Cameron talks about a prototype T800

so JC is directing? id be interested as I love most of his films

James cameron says that terminator 6 will ignore alll of the terminator movies exept 1 and 2. arnald will also be returing but not as a terminator. it is allready in production I think. I am not sure what to think of it though. terminator 3, 4, and 5 were all complete crap.

where do I mention anything about the next movie? yes he did confirm it and im not arguing his statement, im simply trying to see how he could have accomplished it, if u had read my comments properly u would have seen that. the fact it is davids body is all fine and dandy but it still doesn't make much sense given the time he had to accomplish it. if ur quite happy with how things r and r tired of listening and reading about people debate it, move on. go somewhere there is a topic that doesn't get ur knickers in a twist. if people want to discuss it then they have every right to

I agree that prometheous and alien covenant were steps down from alien 3 but I thought that prometheous was still a great addition to the franchise that added tons of world building. alien covenant, Was also a desent addition to the franchise in my opinion.

thoughts, def agree with u. some answers or even half answers in Prometheus probably would have gone a long way to making a better movie. my fear is that after the reactions from Prometheus and covenant, fox and RS may be thinking about making awakening in a way that if the reviews and returns r bad again they can ditch a 4th film. this would spell disaster for the engineers as their wouldn't be enough time to show anything of them other than chasing david. we would learn very little more about them.

the reason RS returned was them plain and simple. he has allowed outside forces to change his mind and where the engineers r concerned, I feel he has lost a film to show case these beings the way he would have originally wanted to imo. for me, I want to return to the Prometheus feel of the series and address them in much more detail than what david is doing. I don't think it would hurt davids character by him taking a slightly lesser role in awakening.

ali81 "I think this will just have to go down as an error on Ridleys part. if he hadn't confirmed it to be davids body and just said nothing then it could have left the door open for another twist as it could have turned out that walter joined him and their acting together. but going with the confirmation its davids body just doesn't make an sense at all."

The next movie hasn't come out and you don't know the plot. I'm sure Ridley knows what the plot twists will be and knows exactly what happened between Walter and David. He even stated exactly what happened and how long it took.  So it makes perfect sense to confirm it so that people wouldn't sit on forums speculating in many threads about what might have happened, or who's body it is.

We were given the exact explanation to a T, but this topic is still ongoing.