What Alien: Covenant Needs to Succeed

Well I agree with almost everything here especially with the acting/writing and the score. Although I quite liked the score of the movie, I do agree that it wasn't the greatest of movie scores. One thing I don;t really agree with is the ractical effects thing. Now using practical effects when possilbe does usually add to the movie, but I don't agree with everyone always pinig for practical effects everywhere. Liek I said, they should still be used in balance with or as a compliment to CGI, but the digital technology is only getting better and I think it was used really well in Prometheus while lookingn outstanding. I won't be mad if more practical effetcs are used in Covenant than Promtheus or something, but I don't think that is necessary for a great movie. 

And with the cinematography, I really hope they manage to film something that is as beautiful as Prometheus mostly was, while straying a little more towards the atmpshere/look of Alien. Just a little bit though! I don't want the dedication to recreate it like Alien: Isolation (which was an AMAZING experience btw), but Prometheus featured a desert planet and the design of everything was sort of barren 

7)A better cast!

Michael Fassbender's performance of David 8 was incredible,even better there are actually going to be 2 Davids played by Fassbender in the sequel.For the rest of the cast I dunno.

The views of Pete are clearly his own, and i dont want to go into too much detail but some i agree with others i dont, every movie has throw away characters, but every movie needs at least 3-5 you have to care about this depends on the Movie however.... Movies like Alien and Predator worked because the cast was so small and they did a good job on covering those small number of characters.

Prometheus dropped the ball, basically but Lindeloffs draft did have more depth to it, the movie we got was one that was cut and edited to a degree that a few Characters never got used as much as they could have.... Vickers for one, we have to ask why was she there... to oversee a mission she wanted nothing to do with... maybe she had her own Agenda to make sure the mission failed... but i felt Spaights draft gave the company CEO's more of a purpose as in to recover Engineer Tech.

Anyway i dont want to get into detail about what flaws Prometheus had because it would be covering old ground and take up a lot of space....  so i will mention what Alien:Covenant needs to sucseed.

5) New creature design!

Not sure this is going to happen...2 reasons.

1.) H.R Giger was a genius...Humans like him only show up once every 50 years....Making a truly terrifying unique monster is VERY difficult and I don't see anyone improving on the Xenomorph in my lifetime.

2.) The whole series is about the Xeno..it really is. If you somehow top the Xenomorph...then IMHO Alien/Aliens/Alien3/4 would diminish in stature.

Unless...Ridley is intent on bypassing the Alien legacy and taking the series in a new direction? Maybe he has found another H.R. Giger? Say...taking the series hundreds of years in the future? 

There is a lot that Covenant needs to sucseed... i am not going to use this to sugest what i think its going on, not in any detail anyway but i feel they are setting up a Trilogy after Prometheus that would at the end give us all the Answers to Alien,  The Xeno, when/why/how  the Space Jockey when/why/how but it would also i feel have to answer the questions left over from Prometheus too which include to a degree....  Why was we created and for what purpose?.......... why and what made the Engineers on LV-223 set out to destroy or transend us 2000 years ago?....... and was this mission something that the Engineers knew about on Paradise?  Who created the Engineers, and how far does the lader of hierarchy within the Engineer Society and Agenda go?....  What connection and purpose does LV-223 have in all this related to the Engineers, Bio Weapons and the Xeno?... What happened to cause the outbreak 2000 years ago?   And Finally what becomes of LV-223 by the time of Alien/Aliens?

These are things that the Prequel Trilogy must answer and cover by the time they finish it all.  some parts that are not answered must be answered in a Alien 5/6.

But as far as what Alien: Covenant movie needs to suceed....

1) It needs to cover some lose connections to the Xenomorph but not give us the full explanations, because how can they do another 2 Movies after to just cover what becomes of the crew of Covenant and David and the Xenomorph and all leading to 18 years latter in Aliens......   BUT! it must losely cover or set up for sequels some of those Questions from Prometheus as far as the Engineers, where are they, who are they, who is above them and what was the whole Agenda and purpose of Earth/Mankind... LV-223/426 and the Xeno connection.

2) Its needs to give more time to develop back story to at least 3-4 Characters we see in the Movie and at least 2-3 of these have to be the crew of the Covenant... we can have some who have not so much Character depth and some who are just cannon Fodder.... but i feel they need to be doing better than Prometheus, Alien Resurection and even Alien 3 and so they have to give us Characters we care about to the level we did in Aliens.

3) I think the movie needs to explore the Black Goo Bio-Weapon and show us seeds to something Xeno Related and new and fresh.... rather than just the Original Xeno... i hope we see the old Alien as in flash back or hologram scenes and not full in your face.

4) The movie needs a bigger budget and production time to do it justice and needs to carry on with Practicle Effects but also CGI but it has to make sure the CGI is something the standard of big budget Movies like Terminator Genisys, Latest Avengers, Latest Transformers and the likes of the new Star Wars Movie and movies like the Hobbit.......  as poorer CGI Budgets will not produce the goods.

5) We need Answers but Answers that lead to more Questions that set up for the next movie to cover more.

6) We need to see Shaw and David, even its its a set up for them to be covered in more depth in the next movie, we dont want to see Shaw passed off in a short scene and never to be seen again... her Character was one that could have been developed and also there would have been great dialog and how does the chemistry go between Shaw and David....  David needs her, she needs him else both are not leaving LV-223 so it creates a important dynamic to be explored... and maybe Shaw may start to figure what happened to Holloway...   They have to cover Shaw and David in one of the next few movies and not kill her off.

7) We need to see some Engineers, even if its briefly but like above, they need to explore them more in the next movie as there is so much more to them, than just creating the Xenomorph...

FOR ME.....

The Xeno, and Ripley are a small part of the bigger picture... Prometheus was touching on bigger things than the done to death Xenomorph and i hope this is where they are going as.... well 3 more movies, first one that shows us a David and a creation connected to the Xeno DNA Biology (even showing us all 3 stages) then two more movies to follow the aftermath and link to Alien... not explaining the time difference between LV-223 outbreak 2000 years ago and the Derelict seemed to have been there longer than after the events of Prometheus or Covenant i.e 18/28 years..  Two more movies, covering the Xeno more and not covering Shaw and her Questions to the Engineers, and never mind not exploring the Engineers.

Nop that makes a Generic Lame Franchise that a AVP Reboot done propper in time line after Aliens would wipe the floor with... more to the Franchise than this is how and when the xeno came about.

@MonsterZero...

Yes i think we can see New Creature Designs... but i dont think we can go for something that is completely different... it would still have to be something related to the Giger Xenomorph Original Concepts... this does not mean we have to see Generic Xenos..... i think they have to show us a fresher form or two.... the Fire and Stone Comics showed us different creatures that could Evolve from the Xeno related DNA.

If we are going to see 3 movies that are showing us Xenos that are too close to the Originals or all about them and then a Alien 5,6 and what ever else that does the same... then the Xenomorph would become as STALE as.... well what?  the Zombie Flick?

The Franchise is bigger than the Xenomorph.... The Engineers may have created many kind of life on many Worlds... the Engineers are most likely not even the Top of the Creation Hierarchy.

There is potential to fix the problems of Prometheus, by expanding on what that movie was trying to do, while also giving us some links to the Xeno... i would rather Alien 5 and 6, and 7 and how far they want to MILK IT deal with the Xeno more than the Prequels deal with it.....

The potential is to do a movie Trilogy that can explore it all....  one that does more justice to the Alien Franchise and what Prometheus started (Space Jockey/Engineers) than the new Star Wars EP7 does for the Original Trilogy of EP4-6.....  But there is also the potential for them to give us a Generic Alien Franchise seen it all before that would be more of a Phantom Meanace..

@BigDave

Alien: Covenant has been mentioned as a 'soft reboot' of the franchise ...moving it to a distant planet, opens the door for Ridley and team to get a little crazy....I Don't think they have to worry about the Alien Canon. It's going to take place far from Earth...Humans will never know what happened on this distant deadly world.....Any new monsters will be confined to Paradise and it's star system...So I agree with you...

And the best way to really cook the beast is with hellfire.

I am not so sure with what they are planning to do, Ridley had hinted at the movie showing us all 3 stages of the Xenomorph and reintroducing them back into the Franchise... he also claimed that there would be another 2 movies that would at the end of those tie us back into Alien.....

For me this is a whole lot of very Xenomorphy goings on...... but i think there is more to it than this, i dont think they are going to entirely give up with Prometheus and the unanswered questions from this... to then just skip this and show us a True Alien Prequel...... we have to also remember i think it would be very flawed idea if they are going the route of The Covenant Crew and David are going to play the role in how the Xenomorph came to be...(my source did however say Mankind plays bigger role in its creation than the Engineers).

I fail to see how they can go the route that David + Covenant Crew = Xeno = Space Jockey on LV 426 but Ridley did say that by the end of the new Trilogy we would find out how the Xenomorph got onto LV 426 and what happened to the Space Jockey.....  But if they are going to show us the 3 stages of the Xeno and also something to do with how it was created in the next Movie... i fail to see how two more movies would be needed to cover yet more Xeno Shenanigans before we get the last movie that shows the Space Jockey and Booom! we are at ALIEN!

Unless there is Timetravel involved?  and i dont like that idea... besides LV-223 had its outbreak 2000 years ago, we see Chest Busted Engineer Cryosleep Pods, we see a Xeno-esque Mural and Fresco that has some creature that has a mild relation but is also holding traditional Xeno Eggs......  The Space Jockey and Derelict seemed to have been on LV-426 for thousands of years..... and thus not the timeframe of Covenant i.e 18 years to pass from that event to Alien.

Micheal Biehn also said that he was told that the Alien:Covenant would take place thousands of years ago, before Aliens.

Unless the journey to Paradise takes the Covenant through a Worm Hole that takes them back thousands of years, i cant see how this would work.... apart from.....

The movie follows 3 Plots in 3 timezones....

1) year 2104+ and Covenant Colony Ship finding David and what occurs after this.

2) What events transpired from the year 2094 to 2104 as far as the 19 years that pass and how they (Shaw and David) got from LV-223 to Paradise... i think we would see a small scene from this but more in the next movie..

3) I think we have to see some Flashback scenes or Hollogram scenes of Paradise set thousands of years ago, this would be a ideal time to showcase the 3 stages of the Xeno, in a small amount of screen time and allow the events of Covenant timeframe to create something NEW!  I feel that such a time setting thousands of years ago would be explored in more depth again in the next or 3rd movie.

As i have stated before it could be that the Plot for Prometheus 2 and 3 has been changed a bit to take into account Alien 5..... as i had a source inform me loosely of stuff about the next stages and this was a long time before Ridley released any information as far as Plot and release dates etc apart from that the movie will follow Shaw and David and they find beings related to the Engineers who are not very nice....   Anyway months after the source informed me about the Plot, Ridley had then started to mention a number of things that seemed to add up to this.

everything Ridley was saying about the movie from May to October all seemed to fit and also be a evolution of the idea and reason he was going with Shaw and Davids mission.... then BOOM! November we get a new Name Alien: Covenant and a Plot and details that seem to show no mention of links to anything Ridley had said pior...

Its also funny enough that shortly before this, we here that Alien 5 is put on back burner and we get yet another writer for Alien:Covenant to re-write the drafts that was finished by Michael Green as of October 2014.

I think that Fox realise Fans want to see Xenos, and Answers to the Eggs and Space Jockey, and there was more interest in Alien 5 ideas, than David and Shaw finding Engineers and more about the Black Goo.... it would appear also that Alien 5 had some ideas that included Engineers Tech and had elements that Stepped on the Toes of Ridleys ideas for Prometheus sequels....

So its logical that they have decided a way to avoid, this would not be to release Alien 5 latter than Prometheus 2 and 3 because by then maybe the antispation for Alien 5 could have worn off and Mrs Weaver would be much older and if Fans are not happy with Prometheus 2 and 3 then it could affect Alien 5.....

So what better way than to bring in a new Plot, and edit the whole story to fit this new Plot into the Franchise and have it set after the planned Prometheus 2 idea but show this stage of the Timeline before.... where they can give more clues to the Xeno Orgins, even maybe have a Plot that the aftermath could lead to how the Company gets its hands on Engineer Tech and the Xeno for Alien 5 without having to have them obtain it from LV-223 or LV-426.....   the fans get a bit more Alieny movie.... this would build antispation for a 3rd Alien Prequel Movie, and allow after Covenant for fans to then get another Xeno fix with Alien 5..... which can then allow the other Alien Prequels to explore the Engineers and answer questions from Prometheus as well as eventually Alien.

Thats what i think is going on.

Remember...If Alien 5 with Neil Blomkamps was going to discard the last 2 Alien movies....I'd say Ridley Scott has the absolute right to do anything.....You might see Ripley sooner than later.

And I'm not sure what I'd think would be a cool Xeno origin....Test tube? Freak accident in a lab? Do I really want to see behind the curtain? 

I agree, the score was terrible.  Let's get Max Richter to compose for this film!  Now that would be amazing!!

This felt much more like a comparison of Prometheus to Alien movies, with the critique of prometheus in that comparison coming from place of nostalgia for Alien. These criticisms are always the same, as if the idea that prometheus was bad is an unoriginal idea that people didn't really think themselves, they just agreed with, because someone told them to feel that way. People talk about Prometheus as if it failed to be an Alien movie, it's weird.

Prometheus is one of the first movies I've ever actually watched more than once within a year timespan, which was due to the wonderment it created for me, by asking existential questions I got to think about, and then having characters that displayed behavior that was complex but convincing. Sure, some of the interactions aren't obvious, but they're very realistic none-the-less, and were completely understandable. They're development DID make sense - some behavior was irrational, but humans are sometimes entirely irrational, and complex.

In regards to the movie succeeding; 'success' is relative, and each person who watches Alien: Covenant is going to view it differently, but the majority will require pretty similar criteria. The movie might not get a fair shake unless it goes back to being something familiar to the masses, something the majority can appreciate. So, this article is probably correct in that, the Alien: Covenant will be successful if it's moved away from being anything like prometheus, and more towards an action and comraderie oriented movie, reminiscent of the Alien movies.

With the old formula it will be successful, but will it be good? I don't know. I doubt it, but I've always been the odd man out. I love Alien and Aliens, but was more satisfied with the different approach that was taken with Prometheus. I watched it and thought to myself, "Finally, real intrigue. No more freddy kruger in space." But, people WANT freddy kruger in space, people want to be told what things are, and what things mean. Maybe there's no room for combinations of psychology, philosophy, and science fiction in the movie industry anymore, maybe that is reserved for academia and research. It's all just so predictable, time and time again, movies follow a formula, and never try to stimulate the mind, to make you think about life. Why is this, I wonder? It makes for really boring movies. Well, I guess the majority is pleased, so that's what counts - they generate the most money. But why don't they care to ask theoretical questions? Why are they so grounded in the immediate, in what they can sense?

I'm sure I am going to be perceived as condescending in this post, and my tone might be in response to all the criticisms I've read of prometheus in the past, most of which I find to be unfounded and mostly frustrating - they're not well thought out, or convincing.

As an example, one thing I never understood about those criticisms was why people felt prometheus was so confusing when most of the behavior, or 'inconsistencies' could be explained by previous events or interactions in the movie. For instance, one moment that's mentioned a lot is the biologist who approaches the snake-like organism without much hesitation or fear, and is then bitten. If we consider the biologists interaction with the geologist earlier on, we remember that he tried to establish a new friendship, but was denied, which can generate anxiety in someone, which could make the biologist more sensitive to his interactions with the geologist. Later, during the briefing, the biologist represents a scientist well when he questions the purpose of the mission, and the validity of shaw's claims that discount/disprove darwinism. It's clear to me in this scene that he knows his stuff.

Moving forward to the discovery scene, besides the 'gigantic dead body,' we 'discover' that the geologist is a tad bit concerned about the giant, decapitated body outside of the sealed chamber. His anxiety could be exacerbated by the mission itself, and the teams findings(how does anyone respond to finding aliens?). It would be pretty overwhelming, in a way we can't really sympathize with as we've never discovered the body of another intelligent species on another planet, but I digress. Anyways, in a sort of panic, he takes off and pulls a jerry mcguire, asking "Who's coming with me?" and in that moment, whatever admiration the biologist has for the geologist is activated, and they leave together. Both somewhat in a panic, they become lost, most likely thinking they were travelling the right way to leave.

Within minutes of those two departing, the storm warning comes from the ship, and the rest of the team takes off in a hurry without much time to account for everyone. We learn the biologist and geologist are left behind, and due to the storm they're stranded, and advised to set up camp. We can only imagine the level of fear that's beginning to set in. They find a camp, and begin to wait it out, which ultimately leads to their discovery of the more advanced worm life form. [We could make a lot of guesses as to why the biologist behaved the way he did in the next scene, but this is the way I understood his actions.] The biologist was possibly in shock due to being stranded in the same caves where they found piles of giant dead bodies, on a foreign planet, with giant containers surrounded by goo. Due to his shock, he reacts by denying that any danger exists, maybe in hopes of calming the already stressed geologist. He approaches the snake-alien as if it were harmless (like the one he picked up in the deleted scene), but his judgement is off, which is understandable. He even remains calm when the organism wraps itself around his arm, and he finally realizes the danger aaaaand you know the rest.

To me the interactions throughout the movie develop in a similar fashion, and are somewhat complex, but make sense none-the-less. I know a handful of people who feel similarly.

I agree with most of what the author says, apart from, "Part of the appeal regarding the hype for Prometheus, was, to me, the fact that we would start getting answers to the questions turning over audience's minds since 1979. It's been almost 40 years. Time to start giving us the answers-- even if in small amounts."

This, for me would be a big mistake. Sure, we need SOME answers to the questions posed in Prometheus for the simple fact that the plot is a mess. However, one of the great things about ALIEN is the fact that the space jockey, derelict and cargo of eggs seem ancient and very mysterious, the unknown is scary. My biggest fear regarding ALIEN: Covernant, is that Ridley will go down the 'what happens in this film will eventually lead to an engineer landing on LV 426 with a cargo of eggs. For me, that derelict has been on LV426 for, ATLEAST thousands of years.

@BigDave; you know, i wasn't keen on the prospect of having time travel in an ALIEN film to explain the space jockey being on LV426 for thousands, if not millions of years, but if it would come to a choice between having the events of Prometheus leading to the space jockey and derelict being on LV426 or time travel, i would prefer the time travel explination and i think if done properly, with like you say "using wormholes," it could be incredible. I always thought that the space jockeys may have used wormholes several times through out time, or maybe even accidentally travelled through them. Maybe, they have created ways to travel through time? Well, they have created everything else apparently so why not time travel?

Oh and it definately needs a better score. While the score for Prometheus was good, it was too Hollywood for my liking. Not a patch on the ALIEN score.

BTW Happy New Year everyone!

"We can only imagine the level of fear that's beginning to set in." Sooo much fear they just wanna go tickle a 7ft space pyton that just slithered out of some black crap hmmmm... makes sense lol!

In a previous version of the script they talk about how the suits they are wearing at virtually indestructable - can stop bullets etc. Makes so much more sense...although really the design of the suits in the final film make them look like thin plastic tbh so that did not help anyway with the belivability side of things. Just one quick scene of them fireing guns into them or one line or could even of been a lighter/ geological tool for melting rock used on one of them for fun etc etc so easy to show they thought they were safe inside the suits...funny how even someone who loves them film doesnt even spot this as well - it was taken out completely?... or was it thought people would guess hmmmmm....

But yes massive plot holes the worst part being the characters - just never felt like any of them were realistic except shaw and particularly david thank god the crap ones all died! It was an attempt at a haunted house film in space that seriously back fired but at least now they can fix all this :D ...

@Necronom 4 Time Travel would for me lead to Plot Holes.... unless all Engineers are dead....

As if they had Time Travel then surely they would travel back and well undo the Wrongs that we had caused or undo what happened on LV-223 or carry on back and wipe us out....  However Time Travel could have some interesting ideas as to explain some scenes... i.e Sacrifical Scene to create Mankind, the Scene seems set Millions of years ago... its a bit of a long wait to then lead to us for some Agenda....  but not if you could Time Travel... you then plant the seed,  jump forward to upgrade it, then do the same again and finally again.. so they dont have to wait Millions of years for the result.

I am not sure this would be a good idea however, as we could run into problems as why the Engineers could not undo what they had done, or what of some went back into the future past the events of Prometheus and then notice what went down and then go back into time to stop it..... i guess time Travel could explain that the LV-223 Mural and Frescos are Prophecy that they gained from going into the future.

But i hope they are not going that route, and i also think it leads to Plot Holes as far as if Humans got hold of Time Travel...

I would however support a Accidental Time Travel Angle..... for example if a Sun was destroyed with such Force that it sucked a Ship carrying Eggs onboard through a Worm Hole (even if Temporary one) created after some event like a Super Nova... that then thrusted the ship back in the past....  Thus the Derelict ends up being dragged back in time and heads towards LV-223 or Earth but then the Chest Buster event happens.

so its a one off event, where a Ship after the events of Covenant is then somehow cast through a Distortation within Time and Space and then arrives to LV-426 in the past.... i would buy that idea.

When i saw Prometheus Trailers, i was under the impression that what we would see was David play Pinochio and that he indeed uses some Technology to make himself Mortal to a Degree, the shot of the Engineer standing above Shaw in the trailer, where we saw only the Engineers Legs to me looked nothing like as Tall a Race as the Space Jockey and so i thought it was David.... i thought David would upgrade himself and play God, and his punishment was that the Squid we saw in the Trailers then Face Hugs David and this leads to the Space Jockey and how the Xenomorph got its Bio-Mechanical Metalic Elements look from...

I did not like this idea, as i felt the Derelict had been on LV-223 for thousands of years.. but the trailers seemed to point me to them doing a movie where the events would lead to Alien.... 

I was off course Wrong ;)

But are they now going for something like this with Covenant?  Ridleys making a few clues to this.... but off screen Ridley did say the Derelict had been there for thousands of years, and has some connection to the LV-223 outbreak.....

I hope they are going with that Time Line and that Alien: Covenant is a story that is added in (by John Logan) to slot inbetween the Original Ideas they had, so that this new Plot can bridge the gap to Alien 5.... i therefore think that they have slotted this new plot between the Old Plot for Prometheus 2 and 3 and we would see some sub plots set to cover the plans they had at first.... i.e Shaw and Engineers, that would be evolved upon in the next movie after Covenant.

Micheal Biehns comments seem to sugest this... as he hints at a Change in idea for Alien 5, now set 20+ years after Aliens and not directly after and he said Covenants events was set THOUSANDS of years before Aliens.

while off topic.... the Milburn and Fifield silly moments had good explanations in both Spaights and Lindeloffs drafts it only took another Writer to come in and add both of these..... 1) Fifield who handled the Hamerpede and he did so because he had (drugs in the recpirator) and so was stonned...... 2) They had lost the Map and Left it on the ship, Fifield thought Milburn had it and Vice Versa.

Also the actual movie we had the First Alien Cut scene of smaller worm Organisms that where Inchs in size, if we assume they had found these first which they had and they seemed Harmless then you could forgive Milburn for not being as cautious with the Hammerpede.

This scene was cut because it makes a bit of a mess with regards to the Black Goo, as it would show that there was allready native Organisms that where much larger than the Worms that got into the Black Goo. Its just one of those Scenes never given much thought of how A links to B to C..... the Holloway Eyeworm is another but we have to remember this is Lindeloffs style of writting.

The main element that is needed to make Covenant work is TALENT! The reason ALIEN was such an incredible film was the fact that the "dream-team" were in town! Made up of talent such as, H R Giger. Dan o Bannon. Ron Shusset. Ron Cobb. Carlos Rambaldi. John Hurt. Ian Holm. Yaphet Koto and Ridley Scott. They were just the main talent that came together to make a masterpiece. The rest of the crew, which i haven't mentioned, (because it would take way too long to type out and i'm really lazy) also played a big part in what made it the greatest Sci-Fi film ever made.

You add the above to the fact that nobody had ever seen a film like it before and you end up with something VERY special.

Will any future installments in the saga ever equal it? The answer is almost certainly NO.

Will any future installments ever come close? Maybe. It all depends on the talent involved.