Forum Topic
Ghost Solitare
MemberOvomorphApr-11-2012 1:40 PMIf you haven't visited this site, and you are a real fan of the franchise, take a look.
http://www.anchorpointessays.com/essays.html
We already know that the Engineers can create life, using technology, it just requires the ability to manipulate proteins, enzymes, and time. The question that's rotated back and forth through this forum regarding the eggs, has been beaten to death. If you visit this site & look up the topic "Invasive DNA Assimilation and Modification Reflexive Behavior" you could begin to formulate a different idea.
The facehugger doesn't implant an embryo in it's host. It manipulates the hosts molecular biochemistry in order to utilize it's metabolism to produce a xenomorph.
"In this process it is believed that I. raptus genetic material "invades" a host's DNA, which alters gene expression and activation. As this process occurs new genes are created, forcing the cells to function and exist in a manner that is more suitable to the development of an I. raptus embryo. It is also proposed that as this forced change occurs new proteins and amino acids are produced - creating a host environment that is drastically different than the original (even if only on the cellular/sub-cellular level)."
All of this happens in a matter of hours attesting to the ingenius work of the Engineers. The alterations also occur to the host organism ensuring that it survives the process and provides a stable environment for the developing organism. Though a work of fiction the theory does have hypothetical support from events in the subsequent films.
"In the medical records obtained from Fiorina 161 following Lieutenant Ripley's arrival: Lieutenant Ripley had been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Hibernation Disorder - a short-term illness caused by a sudden and improper awakening from hyper-sleep. The symptoms range from coma to disorientation accompanied by headaches, sore throat, cough, and/or nausea and vomiting - depending on the severity of the case. The symptoms of this disorder can last anywhere from 3 to 10 days - again, depending on the severity of the case. Lieutenant Ripley was diagnosed with slight disorientation, sore throat, cough, nausea, and minor headaches. She was also diagnosed with minor abrasions and lacerations, and the subcutaneous rupture of blood vessels throughout the cornea of the left eye. Within a matter of 8 hours all recorded symptoms - with the exception of a few lacerations - had completely healed. However, since there was even less understanding of the Alien and its capabilities at that time the healing of Lieutenant Ripley's wounds and symptoms was not associated with the presence of an I. raptus embryo."
So if we back things up a bit, we are dealing with synthetic viral vectors that once inside a host organism are able to insert targetted bits of their own DNA into the sequences of their host in order to fulfill their biomechanical imperative. In the simplest terms, the host organism manufactures the end product. The site goes into great detail regarding the life cycle of the various incarnations of Xenomorph. I'm sure you will enjoy giving it a once over, I'm sure Ridley did.
8 Replies
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteApr-11-2012 2:05 PMI posted a link to this site in a recent thread the other day, asking for peoples opinion on the site.
Personally I find the theories and speculation presented on the site to be subjective. The OP features one such point claiming that the Facehugger does not impant an embryo, funny that the evidence of 4-6 films says otherwise; there are more ways to get a Chestburster in place than overreaching with a theory claiming the hosts body creates the Chestburster.
Ghost Solitare
MemberOvomorphApr-11-2012 3:22 PMWe're discussing something fictional, the extensive, and I might add detailed descriptions regarding the placement, methodology, and limitations of a delivery mechanism versus the possibility of damaging the host were quite fascinating. Over reaching, you have an ENTIRE franchise created around this mysterious creature that is based on polarized silicon that can gestate in a carbon based host without alerting it's immune system. It's FICTION, and the entire concept of terraforming, and ancient astonauts is also conjectural. Nature may always know best, but even in our every day life it's being modified. GMO's, laboratory created organisms. They aren't using eggs, they are inserting chemicals into existing organisms in order to facilitate a mutation. The only EVIDENCE you have is a facehugger affixing itself to a HOST. What happens inside that host is conjecture, it's never been brought to light in any of those films EXACTLY what happens inside the host. The theory is elegant, it's well thought out and you are ignoring the fact that Dallas and Brett were being transformed into eggs by a chemical process facilitated by the xenomorph. I neither subscribe to the theory or dispute it's potential to rewrite the adage what came first the chicken or the egg. I just thank God that there are people out there who are THINKING. In 57 days it won't even matter any more because the subjective will have become the reality that is Prometheus.
Ghost Solitare
MemberOvomorphApr-11-2012 3:31 PMSubjectivity: Subjectivity frequently exists in theories, measurements or concepts, against the will of those attempting to be objective, and it is a goal in most fields to remove subjectivity from scientific or mathematical statements or experiments. Many fields such as physics, biology, computer science, and chemistry are attempting to remove subjectivity from their methodologies, theories and results and this is a large part of the process of experimentation in these fields today.
Despite this, subjectivity is the only way we have to experience the world, mathematically, scientifically or otherwise. We share a human subjectivity, as well as individual subjectivity and all theories and philosophies that dictate our understanding of mathematics, science, literature and every concept we have about the world is based on human or individual perspective. The creation of philosophies is within itself subjective, along with the concept of discovery or creation of ideas.
allinamberclad
MemberOvomorphApr-11-2012 5:31 PM@Ghost Solitare - I must say, if I may: quite beautifully put.
However: while I wouldn't attempt to put words in his or her mouth, when I read Snorkelbottom’s observation, I felt I knew where he or she was coming from: all the material on that site seems written in a voice which is quite shockingly and inappropriately authoritative, considering that what it actually appears to be is a great deal of hypothesis, masquerading as definition?
I don't know if that is part of the whole conceit of the website - a knowing fictional encyclopedia of Alien Lore, with a wink - or whether you're actually supposed to take this stuff as Law.
My confusion isn't helped by the assurance with which you state your own conclusion, that you seem to support by quoting that site, without qualification - "The facehugger doesn't implant an embryo in it's host. It manipulates the hosts molecular biochemistry in order to utilize it's metabolism to produce a xenomorph".
I mean: doesn't it? Does it? Why - because this site says so?
It's all very well, it's entertaining with some interesting opinion [however involved or detailed the support for that opinion is] and someone has obviously spent a great deal of their time on it but - and however plausible it may, (or may not), be - the fact is: it is either canon, or it is not.
If it is, then we should be happy to stand corrected.
If it isn't, it's really only a sophisticated, "more"; of this forum's, "the same" - and, as such, it's just considered and supported with greater depth, (which is not always, necessarily, a good thing): but it is, neither, not necessarily of any greater value nor essential "correctness" than some of the speculation in this forum, practically no matter how wooly it may be - which there is a danger in how what you’re saying may be interpreted.
What I [i]do[/i] strongly support, is what I[i] believe[/i] you’re ultimately saying – which I interpret as: that the site differs, mainly, in its immersive and vigorous application of Science and Logic as a basis in coming to reasonable conclusion, (while within the confines of a Fictional environment), and for that reason and as an example of applied Rationalism, it’s essential reading.
If that’s what you say – (and while the site is a little stylistically awkward): I completely agree.
Guest
MemberOvomorphApr-11-2012 6:15 PMIf you actually had the practical ability to manipulate genetic stucture and expression on a fundamental level [i]in real time[/i], why would multiple generations of completely different morphologies be necessary? Why doesn't the facehugger change directly into the xeno if that's the desired outcome?
A process whereby a tiny, quasi-embryonic, serpent-like morphology bursts out of a nice, big bag of biomass............which must then go out and aquire bodymass roughly equivalent to the nice, big bag it just jumped out of ( otherwise, it's magic ) in order to rapidly mature into its' adult form.......well, let's just say it doesn't strike me as all that efficient [i]or[/i] sophisticated.
To paraphrase William Shatner; it's just a movie, folks.....really.
artyoh
MemberOvomorphApr-11-2012 6:17 PMIf you actually had the practical ability to manipulate genetic stucture and expression on a fundamental level [i]in real time[/i], why would multiple generations of completely different morphologies be necessary? Why doesn't the facehugger change directly into the xeno if that's the desired outcome?
A process whereby a tiny, quasi-embryonic, serpent-like morphology bursts out of a nice, big bag of biomass............which must then go out and aquire bodymass roughly equivalent to the nice, big bag it just jumped out of ( otherwise, it's magic ) in order to rapidly mature into its' adult form.......well, let's just say it doesn't strike me as all that efficient [i]or[/i] sophisticated.
Sometimes we really need to remember that ( to paraphrase William Shatner ) it's just a movie.
Ghost Solitare
MemberOvomorphApr-11-2012 10:38 PMI am most curious to find out the capabilities of the Engineers. I know that it's science fiction but in my career I work in that sort of environment, so to me even pseudoscience has a place in a fictional universe. Not meaning that I want hard science imposed on my material. meaning that I like hearing the theories, or concepts. To have the Derelict and it's enigmatic functions hammered out and to see one of those vessels active is terribly exciting. Although it has not been expressed I also have always felt that the eggs were somehow a corruption, or mutation of something. Never sure what that was but perhaps I'll get those answers when the film open, at least I hope so.
@allinamberclad Very unique...I couldn't agree with you more. The site does present it's information as authoritative. It has to be presented that way. It's coming from a fictional research station at Thedus. I admire all the work put into it. If indeed it is the work of a single individual it's a labor of love. Obviously they love the franchise as I have for years. They have used the context of the films and some very specific and cutting edge research in the creation of this material. I admire it's purity, to quote another rather detached intellect recognised in this place we visit so often.
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteApr-12-2012 5:41 AM@ allinamberclad - Your long post was basically my point, the site, while being extensive, essentially poses theories as authorative fact. But at the same time ignores all possible theories as highlighted with the Facehugger. To be fully objective the site needs to take into account all possibilities, which the facehugger section, as an example, does not.
It is wholly possible that an organism that extrapolates and alters the genome of its archetype breed would be able to implant an embryo into an alien (from its perspective) host, without the need to worry about rejection from the hosts immune system. If they Facehugger does not implant an embryo into its host then what is the purpose of the probiscus it feeds down the hosts throat. Furthermore have we not seen this embryo twice in the franchise - an early stage embryo in Alien and a later stage fetus in Alien 3.
All possibilities should be covered, and should be taken in line with the source material. Yes the source material in this instance is a work of fiction, and as such applying real world science should only be done to emphasize the fictional elements, not explain it away.
@ Artyoh - Bizarre that for a fan you have missed the whole point (no offence), the Xenomorph is the perfect organism not only for its design and its purity as a predator, but also because of its choice of propagation - it uses hosts to improve upon its own perfection while at the same time eliminating said hosts to further its own kind. Rather than killing other lifeforms for the sake of it, the Xenomorph kills to increase its numbers, a survival requirement per se.
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