Does AVP count as accurate to Prometheus

Well that's a bit unfair Snork......I use rigor and logic in my arguments as well.....I rarely if ever use "IMO" either.....I'm arguing from what I see....and for you to place that kind of judgement on me, to lay a backhanded assumption that I don't use rigor or logic; based on the intensity of my approach or whatever reasoning you're using....I call BS my friend...you know, that fact that you go personal rather than arguing the merits says a lot....I gotta love ya Snork, but what's that about?

Yeah CAM you do use rigor and logic, but because you are against the idea your mind is closed off to the possibility, and your personal opinion therefore clouds your judgment. No offence is intended, this is just what happens when anyone argues subjectively, instead of objectively. Take the fossilization argument for example... There are those that believe that because Dallas infers fossilization the that must mean with 100% certainty that the SJ in Alien was fossillizied. I don't care if it was fossillized, decayed or wrapped in tin foil. But when Ridley said it was a suit and I compared the definition of fossilization with what I saw I realized it wasn't and argued, and will no doubt continue to argue that case. But regardless, those that believe the words of a fictional character of fact and recent amendments will continue to argue otherwise. AVP equalling Canon. The argument is valid on either side of the fence. if a pro and cons list was written the two sides would be equal, hence why it is so hotly debated here and everywhere else. Personally I dont care either way, but if the AVP's where Canon it would open up a wealth of possibilities in both franchises.

In the end I agree with that Snorky and also this troubles me a bit...right here... [quote]The mural in Prometheus depicting a xeno already suggest the creature already existed.[/quote] I say this because, that's IF it is in fact a MURAL at all, in one of the trailers I could swear I got the distinct impression something else is going on there we don't get yet, and that something was opening or coming alive out of that thing.

No, I don't see that happening. I would never consider AVP cannon.

If you were to put all the points made on a scale then it would be leaning towards AVP being in the canon. As mentioned by Alteredstate and Snorkelbottom, my day wouldn't be ruined if AVP was officially written off as canon, but if Charles Bishop Weyland's name was dropped on the site then a lot of others would be mortified if it was officially kept in the canon. Spartacus, I don't think that keeping AVP in would ruin the Alien series. I don't think it helps it or hurts it in anyway, or anymore than Alien 3 (which I'll be watching the directors cut this weekend per your advice) or Alien 4, which a lot of folks on the forum are quick to bash as well. All of these movies have their flaws (yes I know you need nightvision goggles to watch AVPR), but they are ALL still fun and entertaining, and are unique and better than a lot of other stuff that comes down the pipe. I know everyone's entitled to their opinion and I respect that, but it seems like AVP is never shown any love around these parts. I believe the last thread on this was asking if we could press the nuke button on these films, which by the way quite a few people tried to throw Alien 3 and Res into as usual.

AVP is not Cannon because the Developers do not give a flying f**k about Cannon they want to make mindless shit to sell movies

AVP is not Cannon because the Developers do not give a flying f**k about Cannon they want to make mindless shit to sell movies

It depends what you mean.... By the main questions then is Alien Cannon to Predator/ AVP. The answer is NO, there is no reference to Predators in any of the Alien movies i.e Alien to Alien 3 and Resurection. Thus the Predator is not Canon to the Alien Universe.... But the Alien is to the Predator one.... Alien-Alien 4 are set between 2120's to 2320's Predator was set between 1980s to early 21st century. We see no mention of Alien Xeno in Predator... but in Predator 2 we see a Xeno Skull on the Predator ship. In AVP2 we see a Space Jockeys asewell In Predators there is what looks like a Xeno being burnt, and the one organism looks a little like what someone described the Proto Xeno of Prometheus is like. So in the Predator universe there was Xenos.... I think what upsets Alien fans about AVP and Predators is mainly the differences in the time line..... In Alien we do not come into contact with the Xeno untill 22nd century over 100 years since we make contact with Predator. If you ignore Alien... pretend that Alien, and Aliens etc never ever happened. Then AVP would make sence... We see Xeno in Predator 2, we see it in Predators so when we see AVP we can go like "ahhhhh thats what one of those Trophies they had was" But when we use Alien universe then yes AVP makes no sence. If AVP was set like the games in the year 2150-2250 then yes it would have made a bit more sence as far as tie in with Alien timeline. When we are considering Alien franchise i would then consider the AVP and Predators as far as how the movies go to not be related or canon at all. However in Prometheus we do see a cloaked being and the markings on the Urns are not like the other markings of the Space Jockeys and look either a mix of Predator and Klingon.

@Prenihility I think the reason for the wait for the next game is basically if they made the game and showed the Xeno Orgin as being made as a bio weapon from doing genetic experiments with lifeforms and a Bio Former, and that the Jockey is a big man in the Suit... How would it be canon (i think they want it to be familair and canon with the idea Ridley has for the SJ). If Ridleys movie turns out to be diferent. What if they went ahead with the above idea, and one that many think the Jockey are... Only to find out that the Jockey are just mutated Humans infected by Slugs/Worms or something even more bizare.

@Snorkelbottom Yes the Story behind AVP was a good one, the Weyland connection also good idea..... Only flaw they made was to set it before 2150 In my oppinion

true dat alien dna and do let me know your impressions of that directors cut which I just flipped when I saw the first time , was in heaven in fact, I LOVE that thing. I'm not against whatever ends up happening even if we all end up embracing the avp stuff, but that 2nd film I would be ashamed to embrace anything from.

That just might be my all time favorite "different cut" of any film I have ever seen.

@ BigDave... I think you are confusing the situation. Evidence of Aliens appear in Predator franchise, But no Predators appear in Alien franchise, therefore the Alien exists in the Predators universe but the Predator does not exist in the Alien universe... That confuses the point too much, way too much - try to think of the average (non-fan) viewer. AVP set in the future would have been worse, Colonial Marines and Predators shooting each other and the Aliens, the Alien would have been twice the cannon fodder it was in Aliens. The story works, but the lazily cobbled together films leave a nasty taste in our mouths. Best idea - watch the first but ignore the action/adventure tone and then read the synopsis of the second, that's my advice.

@Snorkelbottom Yes your first paragraph was what i was saying.. just maybe i put it down in a way thats hard to read ;) As far as AVP goes, well prior to the movies the Games was good, especially AVP2 and AVP2 primal hunt games of 2002. These are simular stories to the more recent AVP game released about 2 years ago. I feel that they would have worked better than the AVP movies story. The AVP movies Story would provide Canon and connect with Predator movies but not connect with the Alien movies Time line. I feel the AVP Games timeline would have worked with Alien Timeline but not affected the Predator ones.

very creatively and classily put Snorky if you don't mind my saying so, diplomatic too and sums up how we all feel I think very very well.

The AVP movies story is fine, there is nothing wrong with them, narratively. The problems come from the approach (action/adventure & teen slasher instead of suspense/horror), the directors (Anderson of Res Evil fame and newbies the Brothers strause instead of someone more qualified - John Carpenter AVP, Jim Cameron AVPR), the actors (only decent actor IMO was Lance Henriksen) etc. I have played most, if not all of the AVP games, and their premise would not work in the movie theatre because... 1. Too action orientated. 2. The Praetorian idea would have alienated more hardcore fans than the egg-barfing. 3. It infracts too much upon the Alien universe, the AVP movies as they are act as a bridge between the two franchises, both narratively and chronologically.

Big Dave, I think one of the points that Snorkelbottom is trying to make that nobody wants to acknowledge is that now we may have a Alien link to the AVP series as you put it, with the clear reference to Weyland Industries which is from AVP. They could've chose any other name, Weyland Technologies, Weyland International, anything really, so why go with something that everyone recognizes as AVP. As well as stating Weyland Corp and Yutani Corp as two separate business entities which was introduced in AVP as well.

@ Snorkelbottom an Spartacus You're both staff. Why not create a poll relating to whether or not AVP is canon? just so the rest of us can put our input into this VERY controversial debate? Just a fun thought.

This ought to be interesting.... I love all 3 franchises (Alien, Predator and AvP1 (not 2)) in their own rights. TPTB (The Powers That Be), unfortunately, did a hatchet job of putting A and P together, IMO. If only more thought had went into its execution, then MAYBE AvP could be considered "canon". Unfortunately, short of erasing our memories and collecting up everyone's DVDs, etc. it can't therefore it will never be "canon" to the Alien "universe". I own almost every Alien and AvP comic and I'd love for some of that stuff to be "canon", but it never will be....Just EU (Expanded Universe).

piss