piece by abandoned piece...jus for the hell of it

Nickel

MemberOvomorphJune 09, 20121068 Views27 Replies

Hi Guys. obviously there's been a lotta speculation out there about this Film. I thought i'd throw my hat in there as a reason of making something out of what i was given....which as i've said in my own review (and don't want/need to repeat) left me overall disappointed. i wanted to start this thread for people to discuss and involve themselves in the issues of the movie that I or we saw and try to give it a plausible story to join those dots of distracted and abandoned plot/narrative....which was the main bulk of the unfolding film...though not the overall plot..which i felt permeated this film all to regularly. it's just a bit of fun....because ultimately we don't know... but i'll be happy to take and discuss any points however out here, as long as their based in the reality or execution of this film....and not made up theories that the film NEVER lauded too...as (and it is a minority) some on this site have taken at least one point made up a fabricated tangent just to prove their point and forgot all other elements of the film. not gonna name names....and not what i want to get into. i also won't (really) be going into the big major universal questions regarding creation, life, god, no god...i any great detail...becasue they are there all the way through the film from beginning to end and are meant to have bigger evaluations and question marks hanging above them...which i don't have a problem with, happy to think about, and i'll gladly follow into a sequel....and which ultimately are the overall plot of the film....no i wanna talk about the blatant narrative or where we are in the film that left us a bit high and dry...not about where we're going or have gone....at least not yet..... A quick example of what i mean...would be that I've read 2 great ideas (of many) that maybe as obvious as each other depending on your view point....one being that in the opening scene the 'sacrificial' engineer intentionally de-constructs and INTENTIONALLY creates life on earth....where the other idea states that maybe the creation of life on earth was an ACCIDENT...and that this sacrificial engineer...was to kill himself as a punishment...and his Dna accidentally fused with elements on earth and created life.....wether right or wrong both are plausible and both are based on what was presented in the film though from differing points of thought....so having said that here we go. here's my 2 cents.... For Me.... I believe the Engineer in the beginning of the film...IS firmly situated on EARTH some believe he's on LV223....despite the obvious contradictions about how our ancestors from many different cultures and civilisations across thousands of miles and generations knew about him/them....they also over look the fact that the humans are here on earth...and share the dna with them (how ever you feel about this its the film)...and if it did take place on LV223 then humans would not have been created the bad engineer wouldn't need to come back to earth as we're not there...again this is not what the film is about and presented as but i'm digressing. Sacrificial engineer i believe is on earth...there's nothing no official review or comment to state otherwise. that he is either intentionally designed (cloned or otherwise) as a seeding entity of pure combustable energy and cellular mass... as in that his purpose maybe his majesty or lineage...to bring life to these planets...and this type of black goo...is the match to the flame as it where...while HIS creators are in the Mothership....and yes maybe he's designed in their image...(for all the blade runners out there)...i believe the theory behind this is called panspermia...or a VARIATION of it for purposes of film. Life begins...its there on the screen...DNA Breaking down ....the Fusing....recombining with other elements ....growing at a cellular level and then multiplying.... The cave paintings, for those who don't know are based in the idea of the ancient Alien theory....where real life Ancient cultures and civilisations such as the mayans, sumaerian and hopi indian who, amongst many others are separated by thousands of miles and generations, scribed similar images and messages on walls of their caves or temples seemingly explaining the visitations of otherworldly beings....though this theory or reality (as in real life these types of cave paintings exist).... has again been altered and embellished on for the purposes of this film....ok with me so far... jumping forward...too LV223. (as it's just a space hop for a few minutes) and my real reason for writing....this is where the film ultimately fell down for me...not in it's execution it was great up to and through this time...and then went know where and abandoned all it had shown and built up...with intensity...so here's my attempt to join the dots...just for the hell of it... i'd like to think that...when the team start to investigate ...the first real thing that we see is the panicked engineers running away from something..and into the chamber containing the ampules of goo. i Do not think that there was an outbreak in the sense of an air born contamination and infection...firstly i doubt germs could penetrate a suit built for intergalactic space travel...and secondly you can't out run that kinda thing....seems a bit futile... i believe it may have been some kind of nested (controlled and intended maybe,? maybe not) outbreak where the outbreak was some kind of nesting evolving type face hugger creatures or variants of this...that chased the engineers back down the tunnel so obviously they couldn't leave...and that the engineers ran quickly into the first room they found with an open chamber door to escape....that the last one didn't make through in time...hence the decapitation... I say this because later on...we see a pile of Engineer bodies piled up in front of another chamber door looking like they've been scraping the walls on top of each other trying to GET IN... they're blatantly full of chest holes...some with head holes...though wether thats related in regards to a head hugger type variant...who knows...could just be injuries ...but they're there none the less....and these engineers are either, other ones who didn't make it inside that particular chamber OR are the same ones who made it into 'OUR' chamber and where caught out when they left...as there's no bodies in 'OUR' chamber...but for the decapitated one. and the awoken engineer later on in the film is the last survivor from this outbreak and is the one who made it back safe...wether he closed the door on his 'Pals' or just made it back safe with a genuine effort of escape...is anyones guess...but it kinda makes sense when you think that in 'Alien' on LV426 Scott himself has said the derelict was a cargo ship taking the 'Eggs' somewhere maybe to destroy?...maybe not. but that SJ had something burst out of his chest too...so this cycle, early xeno, face hugger thing or otherwise has been around a while...its on the mural in the chamber and is obviously something they can't completely control...if it gets out..so it's possible they 'our prometheus engineers' could have been taking whatever version of these eggs or creature somewhere...maybe earth?... so that's my take on that part. one things for sure for such omnipotent beings they where running scared from something. For me it would have been great to find out what...and this is my interpretation...of something i felt we the audience should have been involved in especially because were about 70 mins into the movie and they've built up to it and it was scary and intense and engrossing......but everything starts (for me0 to become unravelled and we get distracted by storms and infections and random killings that take away from this ....with all the omnipotent, universal, creation, life ,god etc...questions and alluded notes of overall plot still hanging in the back ground and indeed fuelling the reasons why shaw leaves the lane for answers....the second half of this movie for me is clear cut and more than a tad predictable....so to come to a close very soon...i just want to say that i also believe as there's evidence in the movie.... That Shaw was just a vessel....and did not produce her own egg...as she was infertile...she was infected by mutated/contaminated DNA from Holloway...it grew of its own volition.... John Hurt didn't need any of HIS own eggs to give 'birth' to an Alien and obviously couldn't produce any cause he's a man...like so many victims...it grew after being placed inside him... and lastly i believe theres differing types of goo maybe thousands or millions who knows...we deal with 2 in this film *but possibly 3*...one that helps spawn life...and one that destroys or mutates its host and the 3rd is a bit of a mystery....i refer first to the sacrificial engineer in the beginning who spawns life...secondly to Fyfields mutation...to the black stuff....(no not guinness but i've had a few mutations on that stuff myself :)) and then there's holloways infection...where this goo looks different, doesn't react to atmospheric change like fyfields does as it doesn't alter in anyway when david puts it on his finger in the open atmosphere of the ship. and is indeed contained in a different way...inside glasslike modules...with clear water type substance that the small strands of black glob..float in....holloway displays similar type symptoms to that of the engineer but also some mutagenic type of fyfields...and of course holloway ultimately passes on a growing beast to Shaw that the other two show no signs of doing...and then he is killed meh!...so we'll never know.......but ultimately this leaves me with a feeling that there are Creation type engineers who love and want to create life and destroyer type engineers...who burned them selves playing with fire (xeno DNA) maybe trying to overthrow the creation engineers....as it seems there maybe warring factions between these engineer species. I think thats it...for now please fell free to respond...though please try and keep it i the realms of the film...wether its right there or in the bigger picture i look forward to hearing ideas...and at the end of the day it just makes me feel better about the film...that i'm still disappointed about.....if i've missed anything or left something out...then thats just it i've missed it...or it made sense to me or didn't think it was a big enough point in the film (for me) to mention...Peace All. PS i wager @westy will show up and give 3 or 4 lines of rubbish and abuse... and disappear again. ;)

the_devils_advocate
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June 09, 2012

Lowery – like the first part of your theory that the goo effects simple life and not complex organisms – that explains the creation of life on earth at the start and the worms whilst also explaining the death of the humans/engineers head I don’t buy the whole process as a precursor to creating a xenomorph though – as it would rely on two many chance occurances – if the black goo effects humans it kills them – they would need for all infected humans to breed and have sex to create the first facehuggers – which then have to attack humans – half your population is wiped out in the first stage – its more efficient to just face hug the whole po[ulation originally and the must have the means to do this as they had eggs on the derelict in aliens? Other than that I thing your theory is sound – rather than commng to destroy earth they are going to use it to create xenomorphs to either harvest for more black goo to create planets or to ship to other planets to kill stuff?

the_devils_advocate
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June 09, 2012

nickel – have you got any pics of the cave painting with the alien drawing? My worry is that if humans knew the existence of aliens it goes down the AVP route which I believe ridley scott is firming against (neither he or james Cameroon are fans of those films) its weird because those films mythologys could tie in exactly with lowreys theory – but instead of the engineers harvesting humans for aliens mabe the predators were using the engineers to create them and then the engineers rebelled and were going to destroy earth to prevent aliens being created?

Nyawka
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June 09, 2012

Nickell and all, good discussion points. I have a few abandoned pieces to share as well and hope contribute to our thoughts and discussion. @Devils, the AVP franchise was a cheap gimmick poorly thought out and ruined. But, as you all point out about the goo, type, reaction, etcetera. I ask you to take a step back from the literal viewing of the goo, as variants of runny black substances, to what we actually saw in the film. These "overhumans" "Homo Dominus" if you will, seemed to be far in advance of a tech savvy race, but actually an organically based advanced tech. We would say they have God like control of the "Nucleotide Fire", or the building block of all in the film, and seems to be incorporated in their tech and inventions. From the harmonic activations of their ship to the goo, it appears that Bio infused tech is the higher level of mastery they have. One point about this tech that I have not seen clearly brought up on the boards yet, and may be my limited knowledge of the full board, is that there is a distinct variation between the ships we see here, and the ship of the engineer that seeded earth. In line with this, I do see multiple references here that the original engineer came about 2 millenia ago, but life has been here for millions of years. @Lowery, your point is excellent, however, the presented level of mastery of these genetic techniques could arguably overcome rapid cell errors or mutations, or engineering this as a adaptation trait could be incorporated. Thats an opinion question. So, to the point of ship variation, is there, like with predators, a variant in the Engineers. A seeding group that spreads life and one that destroys, or a group that has the time to allow seding growth, elimiation, and regrowth. A universal petri dish to uncover the true beginnings of life or missing link of eveolution. As for the goo itself, a goo that is able to in that state adapt within an environment itself outside of a host would lend itself to the description of it being alive itself. However, without further knowledge of the work of the containement vessel, atmosphere, staus field possibility of the chamber, this is a speculation. 2 things are certain to me, the "tomb" described with the ?emerald color stone by the sculpture/lithograph of the Alien like creature I believe has further significance and this race did build this far out bio weapons facility as the captain says as a containment site due to location, but my overall feel is that the engineers use the goo as a cleansing agent as well, after they create life, as is said to David "because we can". As for the holes in the head and chest bursts, I think the worms Mike described could have entered in multiple sites on the body. I look forward to discussing further with all of you.

loseyourname
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June 09, 2012

I think the idea that engineers created humans as breeding hosts for chest-bursters doesn't make sense because of the time lapse involved. It took over 3 billion years from the time the engineers seeded Earth to the time that humans first appeared. No creature has that kind of planning horizon or patience. Furthermore, there is no way they could have been assured that humans would ever develop at all. It took an awful lot of extinction events just to wipe out other types of organisms that became superior hunters first before mammals could even proliferate. They probably seeded hundreds, if not thousands, of planets and moons, everything that was suitable that they could reach, in the hope that one might someday develop lifeforms similar to themselves. In fact, there's a bit of a plot hole in that the first engineer who seeded Earth could not have breathed the air, since it had no oxygen in it until billions of years later when the first photosynthetic organisms began to emit it as a byproduct. That guy would have died well before being able to drink the black goo.

chinapaige
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June 09, 2012

These are interesting points about the time frame of when the first engineer came to Earth. I wonder if it is more of a nod to creationism than to evolution, as backwards as that seems. What if other forms of life (plants, simple organisms) were already on the earth and this fast developing donation of DNA was able to create the human race in a relatively short amount of time (which would explain why the engineer only showed up about 2 Millenia ago), say without the jumps in evolution that would normally be necessary. I mean it does seem a little far fetched that this one type of DNA could create all the various species of plants, bacteria, animals etc on the earth. I also don't know a ton about the original mythology behind the alien theory, but this could also explain why our ancient ancestors seemed to be conscious of (even worshipping?) these distant planets which were unviewable by the naked eye. Maybe at that time there was some sort of remnant collective consiousness of their "maker" that had since been lost to more recent generations of humans? Just speculating, but it is really interesting to ponder about.

Nickel
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June 09, 2012

Gentleman...(or ladies as the case maybe) firstly apologies...i've been out with friends watching EURO 2012 football/soccer tournament. and have had a few ahem!... beverages... Secondly thanks very much for the posts such worthwhile reading...and please remember that i'm going to look and have looked at what you've written...from a place of being eager to hear new ideas but also wonder where and why these issues deserve a place in the FILM soley based on my own point of view...especially just for the purposes of this thread..i think i've pretty much read these comments correctly.....where to begin. @devilsadvocate.... sorry no i don't personally have any footage or pic of the cave drawing hopefully it won't be hard to find on the net. but it's there in the film...secondly let me just clear up 2 things for you my friend...the animal kind of depicted in the cave drawing is not or doesn't look like a xeno...but it looks like an alien as opposed to theee 'ALIEN' but certainly correlates to the mural in the chamber with the humanoid (head) being the dominant presence as it is in the cave painting...which to me says leader...and then servant or pet as in the cave painting 'animal' or Xeno type mural in the chamber as a secondary or off to the side presence....the animal cave painting does not look like anything to me that is of our earth or time.... secondly i haven't seen AVP but I'm inclined to accept @NYAWKA'S reading that this type of subject matter was poorly treated...in that movie. and quickly thirdly 'Prometheus' the film is firmly set in its basis and inception along the lines of the ancient alien theory where today in our real world you can visit ancient sights from ancient non-related civilisations and cultures that have strange carvings and depictions on their walls of weird looking larger than life sized images and what maybe star constellations...and also have drawings of regular man in the same depiction...so they obviously knew what man looked like....the story tellers for prometheus have embellished on these topics and sought even more creative license for the film....and apologies if I'm getting wires crossed but but this seems to be what you and indeed @NYAWKAS...interpretation are.... just that one version messed up the AVP film for surprise surprise poor storytelling..yet prometheus seems to use the same subject matter in a more realistic better explained if embellished way...sorry but that is the route if not the main overall plot of this movie....it's why the ship gets of the ground to begin with....so hopefully I've picked you both up correctly there.... @devilsadvocate @loseyourname... completely agree with your notions guys i don't by into that stuff..either...you've explained it well and there's no need for me to go on about this other than to say it's too much theory and non sensical information.... As @lowery hasn't responded to the questions i posed to him about the contradiction of his theory or point as regards cellular DNA cancelling its self out because basically its eating itself...and i don't know enough about it...i just have to move on with what i'd written about it...and come to a conclusion that i find it hard to believe that...the sacrificial engineer would play a game of random chance in his sacrifice ...that this Black goo when it's let loose on the world will either create life...or kill it/mutate it doesn't seem feasible ....such is what i'm getting from that first half of his post...as the second part i don't buy at all and again is not part of the film....so surely it either has to be a different specific type of goo for creating life....or is manipulated into such depending on the creative or destructive needs and motives of the engineers...to randomly say its both simultaneously ....nah....i'd by that its neither simultaneously....but a core 'product...that can be altered to suit the cause but thats it... @NYAWKA..I'm willing to take on board your points and accept them but it is full of coulda's and woulda's rather than the films execution of what we saw and where told....it's just that you make the larger argument...ironically human...in terms of understanding the creation...but more importantly the permeation...of life...the only 2 things i can't agree with and...(and yes its mostly speculation and why were here to talk about it) is that the condition regarding atmosphere in the film is NOT speculation....not because your wrong but because it's in the film...the ATMOSPHERE changes INSIDE the chamber on the arrival of our team....an the nobules begin to leak and bubble...or yearn for ...growth?..or conception?...it's there and a huge if flawed plot point.....the second thing...and probably the biggest gap in your satement....the cobra worms....bursting throughout the chests of the dead engineers?? really? why didn't the one that attacked the bio-chemist burst through his chest?...it nestled in his oesophagus until provoked and then...jumped out of his throat and back to the goo...spilled on the floor...i do think that some kind of entity burst from these engineer chests or even heads...(thats an exciting thought) but not the cobras worms when we see blatantly in the movie...that it leaps from the bio chemists throat...could it have impregnated the engineers....possibly...and something burst through then? maybe....but again...despite the cobra worm leaving the bio chemists body... nothing burst from him....and to be honest...usaully the face huggers die when they drop their eggs in a host...wouldn't the cobra worms?...but again there's no proof this is what happened it just doesn't really add up...given what we know about the creatures in this universe....but thank you great read..... anymore people.???

Nickel
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June 09, 2012

@chinapaige...defiantely on the right track for me...one thing...i was of the impression from the opening credits...that plant life and water...already existed on the planet...theres mountains and lakes and greenery there on camera...i don't think it's intended that the engineers indeed created the planet of all life...but rather HUMAN life and it's derivatives..down the mammalian route ....i could be wrong...but ask yourself this... if there was no elements..of anything in the water (even though there's water there)...what would the engineers DNA fuse and Recombine with... if there's nothing there then his dna would just float around..and die...remember earth was chosen because its conditions where optimal..and ready for the sacrifice.....if i've got something out of kilter by all means...fill me up...thanks for the post :).....and defo on the right track i feel.