Forum Topic
Prenihility
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 5:32 PM
Allright. Before i start; As much as i'd like to speculate more, discuss theories and whatnot, i want to get down to the negative aspects. The disappointments, and dissatisfaction that was felt by everyone.
It can help make the next movies better, and help refine it to make it a more complete, flaw-free experience.
I've got a TON of things i question, and would love to discuss, but i feel it's right to finally put up a thread exclusively about the negatives of the movie.
I might throw in a little discussion/elaboration on certain things in this initial post that AREN'T related directly to the things i didn't like. But other than that, it's about the negatives.
ALSO, feel FREE to post in some things you liked, to counter the negatives, and rule out what was otherwise excellent.
Consider this the megathread, so post away in here... or not? Whatever.
Anyhow.
What disappointed me?
Well. It was simple. One main negative factor was the pacing, and vague, incoherent and quick sections of the movie.
Everything from Vickers' squishing. *run, run; *girly short scream* SHABLAM!*
To Janek's ...' Ok...let's do this ' mentality in regards to stopping the ship, and subsequent "HAND-JOB!" before crashing into it...
It was all so sudden, and abrupt. Another solid 20 minutes of action would have helped space things out, and eliminate scenes such as those.
I left the theatre with a big "WTF?", just thinking about the abrupt nature of the movie.
Things such as the Engineer's reaction after David speaking, isn't really of my concern. The guy was simply frustrated.
I mean, how would you feel if some folks woke YOU up (not of your own people, to boot), and argued, and tried to communicate with you, at the same time? If you look at the way he looked at Shaw while she was talking, he seemed like he was very focused, and was listening. Then pulled a Kansas City Shuffle. Looking left, right, left again, centre, left back to David.
Arguing incoherently + being violent + Engineer that just awoke from 2000+ year cryostasis + 'Who expected this' situation = People dying.
WHO THE HELL WANTS TO WAKE UP TO SEE THAT?!
Clearly he just thought "f*** it".
No... I don't question things like that, among other things people consider "plotholes" but i won't delve deeper into that... L-O-L
It's like watching Star Wars, and saying 'Why's Darth Vader the bad guy", "Why did Obi Wan disappear?"
SHUT, UP! You'll find out!
FFS...
Furthermore. Certain scenes, such as the surgery scene, were unnecessary.
It was evident, from the start, as soon as that scene began, that it was Ridley Scott's answer to the chestburster scene. THAT was supposed to be the scene that made us cringe, and stoop down in our seats.
I wasn't grossed out, i just laughed...
Especially when Shaw said "I need cesarean".
I couldn't help but interpret it as a sort of dark humour. The scene was completely unnecessary.
What should have happened: Shaw gets sedated by Dave, they start surgery, and extract the thing; ala Resurrection. Ripley 8s queen extraction.
I know what Ridley Scott did...
He wanted to cater to the fapping closet dork Alien fans. Which is cool, don't get me wrong! But... still. This should have leaned more towards a pure Sci-Fi film, with less horror.
Another thing.
The frustrating scenes... ugh. Case and point; Milburn’s dumb ass. Him being so fascinated by the Cobralien.
That whole scene was nothing but a frustrating, annoying mess. He should have just gotten killed by the thing while being a typical scientist. Which lead to Fifield's infection.
See what i mean by putting in a solid, extra 20 minutes? Not even, could have been 10-15 at most.
Fifield could have wandered off after Milburn's death, and been a victim to the goo in a different manner.
And finally, the Engineer.
I really couldn't look at him as the bad guy. If there were at least more clear indications of him being a victim of craziness ( because all his buddies on the base died ), or infection, i would have seen him as a bad guy.
I didn't. Sorry. Despite the fact that he ripped off David's cage, domed Weyland with David's head, punted his attacker, and threw another across the room.
The Engineer had SO, MUCH, F***ING MOMENTUM!
WOW!
Once he was done dispatching everyone in the room, one of my two favourite scenes starts. Hell, opinions aside... one of the two best scenes in the ENTIRE movie, PERIOD, starts!
The way he fires up the pilot's seat, is absolutely amazing!
How he looks around, eyeing all of the controls quickly. Firing up the ship.
Taking one, big breath before the mask goes over his face. Absolutely STUNNING!
That, coupled with the sounds the ship was producing, was DIRTY! I was loving every second of that.
Now, with that being said. That, is what i meant when mentioning "momentum".
Solidifying the abrupt ways of the movie.
Furthering on the Engineer. I really didn't like watching the guy struggle with the... Trilobite, is it now? No more bodyhugger? Cuddles? Pentapus? No...? Oh, darn...
Well, anyway. I didn't like the scene. I just thought that the Engineer, once stopped, was going to infect himself somehow, with the goo. And then proceed to turn into the Xenomorph, as per his will. After all, it infects everyone differently, right?
It could have been the last thing he wanted. He was stopped, but created the Xeno, through himself, as a last ditch effort.
The ending, i can't penalize too much. I didn't find anything wrong with it. Especially when you take into account the events that occured prior. For what the movie is, in terms of content. The ending couldn't have been better, really.
So there you have it. Post away!
Looking forward to hearing what everyone DIDN'T like about the movie, what they could have done differently, and supporting that with the things you liked!
55 Replies
WhyDontTheyFreezeHim
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 6:25 PMIn no particular order apart from number 1.
1] Pacing
Personally, a longer pace would improve the movie a lot for me - it would get rid of that "scene-to-scene rush" that a lot of people have problems with and it would also give the scenes more recognisable meaning, and create suspense and character development etc
2] Darker. I might be nitpicking here but I wouldve preferred the film to have taken place mostly at night....mostly ;) Night is just more scary.
I wouldve liked to see more epic shots of dark space from inside the Prometheus ship to give the feeling of isolation, and that we are a long way away from home etc
3] Drop Milburns humour/stupidity when he meets the Hammerpede.
Cant think of anymore right now. My brain just stopped working
Jim100a100
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 6:28 PMI'll give you one, and I'll preface it by saying I really liked the movie, I'll own it when it comes out, and I'll probably watch it a couple hundred times like the rest of Scott's sci-fi oeuvre.
I had a big problem with the Holloway character (yeah big surprise), but I can't decide whether the guy is a bad actor, had bad lines, or a combination of the both. I'll run down my major problems:
- Firstly, I don't buy that Shaw would have anyting to do with him on a romantic level. He was a frat boy and the furthest thing from a scientist or a professional. His character's lines were strictly TV show quality.
- His reaction to not immediately chatting with a living Engineer was that of a petulant child who didn't get his way, despite the presence of several more huge alien-made structures that were as yet undiscovered.
- his swigging off a bottle half the time he was on screen. Again, boorish behavior and unnecessary.
I couldn't wait for Vickers to torch him
shardy
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 6:28 PMright off the bat - i do not hate this film,
just very, very disappointed at what it ended up being
i found many things shallow / hallow with the film overall
for me it was the pacing / tone of the film,
i well understood this movie was it's own, and not to bring
any of my ALIEN baggage into PROMETHEUS. with that said...
on it's own, the film seems to have impatience about it,
almost as if though it wants to hurry up onto the next scene
i found some of the characters almost disposable,
i thought Vickers would be a stronger element, but i found her
to be kinda just cold wallpaper, when she finally bought the farm,
i could have cared less "kick rocks already'"
Janek was just too disaffected for me to even care about him as well
i really did have the highest of hopes for this new film,
sadly, as high as my hopes were, that is how lowly they were met
still, i found this film to be truly astonishing on a visual
level in certain parts, really breathtaking for me to a certain extent
i plan to see it again in IMAX,
i don't think a second viewing will really remedy the obvious
failures i feel this film (sadly) seemed to effortlessly excel at
but, i am more than willing to give it another shot
=)
Hadley's Hope
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 6:33 PMDisliked the film strongly on first viewing, and now hope to see a sequel.
Here's why. I came on here and somebody was gushing over the film.
I pointed out lots of plot holes in the narrative of the
(and I don't mean the mysterious stuff - I mean the stupid stuff like medpods being in the wrong lifeboat, nobody noticing that the locator beacons show exactly where Milburn and Fifield are on the 3D map, Shaw and Holloway who drove TO the dome in a truck, returned on a quad bike IN a storm and carrying the HEAD of the Space Jockey... and the magically reappearing Quad bike at the end as well - which came back undented or scratched after being tossed about by 200 knot winds, to land close to where Shaw was stretched out on her back waiting to die)
I appreciate the real theme of the film is about the 'big question, and I am hooked on how it was woven into the film in little teasing details... but at the same time I'm annoyed at the plot mistakes mentioned above, and also how at times, it felt like the characters were reading the script to us, like we were a bunch of kids... (hey everybody... look at this medpod... this is top of the range... and can do bypass surgery .... remember that for later... okay? - oh, and when you realise it is programmed for a man, and that Weyland was hiding in the other lifeboat... don't wonder why the MedPod was in his daughters lifeboat and not his... even though he has room for it in his king size bedroom.)
I would still tell people it's worth seeing, but I'd be honest and say that the script writer has prioritised getting the underlying story across, and at times has cut corners with the surface story, but if you can get past that because a) you just want a great visual ride of a Ridley Scott film or b) you want to be thinking about the film for a week, and all the little subtle hints and relationships... then go see it.
Hadley's Hope
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 6:51 PMOh, I also disliked some of the pandering whereby they mimic or reference the earlier films, especially by characters so different from the ones they steal the lines from:
[b]Example 1.[/b] "David we are LEAVING" is Holloway echoing Cpl Hicks who says "MARINES! We are LEAVING".
[u]Holloway[/u] - jerk off frat boy who gets drunk at first disappointment and is mean to David for no reason from day 1. stupid and shouts at Shaw after they get rescued from the storm.
[u]Hicks[/u] - the F'ing dude. Very capable, very brave, very loyal, not at all brash, who supports Ripley in searching for a kid in an alien infested plant about to blow the f*ck up in a big mushroom cloud.
[b]Example 2.[/b]
the final sign off. Shaw's "Last survivor of the Prometheus" is an echo of Ripleys "Last survivor of the Nostromo". Shaw is NOT Ripley, and that voice of hers totally lacks the edge that Ripley had. I'm not sure if that's just the way Noomi Rapace can speak while trying to deliver something like and English accent or if she was told to place her character strengths very low key. (they were almost invisible if you weren't looking at the right time. e.g. if you're looking at Fifield's spitting angry and afraid face, and not spotting how calm looking and unworried Shaw is by his ranting excuse for running away)
At first, I had a strong emotional reaction to this... she seems weak and meek, and rather than wipe these things out... she wants a philosophy debate with them. We could assume that she's also hoping to talk them out of killing us all, but she never mentions it as a motivation, instead it's the back and forth discussion about 'why' between her and the soul-less android.
For a film that is claiming to go in a new direction, I'm not sure they got the balance right in how they also acknowledged the past. Flamethrowers is a good reminder of things past - but somehow not as dramatic on a sunny day outside, as they are in a dark tunnel.
Hadley's Hope
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 6:53 PMOTT on the religion/philosophy stuff.
After a 2nd viewing, I got why there were so many things in there as clues to religious motivations, but at the first viewing (where I was already annoyed about so many other things) I wasn't taking them in.
thottbot
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 6:56 PM1)I was really upset with the lack of emotion when the crew opened the chamber with all the earns inside.
There they are, lightyears away from earth with a Giant ancient humanoid monument towering in front of them and they were basically like "thats cool" The cinematography didn't even attempt to intensify this discovery. Wouldn't you think their the crew should have been a little more invested in this finding? I'm more upset about the camerawork here, because this scene should have been awe inspiring. Poor writing or poor directing, not sure who to blame here.
2) This film has too much invested in a sequel that isn't even a sure thing yet. If they truly wanted to make a quality film, this movie's story should have been strong enough to stand alone without a sequel. Movies eluding to sequels isn't a new thing and it's a really fun thing to see when used properly, but it is used as a gimmick in this movie and an excuse for an incomplete story. Too many questions were left unanswered, and not in a good way. But what do you expect from the master of gimmicky viral marketing and improvisational writer who also brought us the make-it-up-as-you-go-along creative writing exercise known as Lost?
artyoh
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 7:06 PMHadley's Hope, this is the second time you've claimed that the "medpod" was in the "wrong lifeboat."
What are you talking about.....there's only [i]one[/i] lifeboat on the Prometheus. There are several[i] escape pods[/i] but only [i]one[/i] lifeboat.
You also apparently missed Janek informing Fifield that the storm was causing signal interference.
Also, the quad-track didn't "magically" appear. Shaw had been blown down wind, and the quad-track eventually followed her path. There's nothing mysterious about it. I never saw it smash into anything hard enough to completely destroy it. Did you?
Infidel753
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 7:26 PMThe only unforgivable flaw was the massive error in science inherent in the premise -- Engineers "seed" life on Earth at some point in the past, and much later, one species (us) evolves which is genetically identical to the original source. Whoever wrote that had absolutely no clue about how evolution works.
The human form of the Engineers was a disappointment. No way was the original Space Jockey in [b]Alien[/b] meant, at that time, to be just a suit with a giant humanoid inside it.
Holloway's drinking, Fifield's over-wrought screeching, and Milburn's stupidity about the snake-like creature were weird, but I was prepared to accept that those things could have plausible explanations.
Vickers's death was a disappointment, but not for the reasons you mention. I thought the character had possibilities; she was arrogant and unpleasant but not evil like Burke, whose death audiences rightly cheered. It should have occurred to her to run sideways like Shaw did.
The scientists didn't talk or behave like real scientists, but movie scientists seldom do.
To me these are pretty minor points, though (aside from the first one).
I have to disagree about the "caesarian" scene. It brought out Shaw's determination and toughness as nothing else could have. I like characters who fight to the end instead of passively accepting fate.
Time23
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 7:45 PMLikes:
1. The intensity. The movie does give us some appropriately cringe-worthy moments that happen organically with the story. Fifeld and Milburn's cobra xeno encounter, the c-section, and the Holloway's death are solid horror moments.
2. The cinematography. It's absolutely stunning. There's really not much more that needs to be said on this.
3. Fassbender. Easily the best acting performance in any Alien movie. The character is also written exceptionally well.
4. The big ideas. It swings for the fences thematically. Something no other Alien movie has really done. It doesn't get it quite out of the park, but it tries though.
3. The 3D. See this in IMAX 3D if you can. It's one of the few movies where actually adds to the experience IMO. The whole movie involves people interacting with technology and the way it's presented in 3D is incredible.
Dislikes:
For me there were 3 things.
1. The score. Thought it was bad. And considering that I bought the soundtrack on ITunes a week before the movie came out, and liked it then this surprised me. There was basically a "discovery theme (Earth) " and an "intense" theme (too close) that was repeated over and over with little variation. I thought the "intense" theme was a great piece of music that fit the movie's tone well with its slow, building beat and hi-tech undercurrent, but it's use seemed too repetitive. The "discovery" theme was not a good fit tonally for the movie IMO. It just felt cheesy and over the top and it was again used too many times. I get that it was meant to carry religious undertones but still felt like it didn't blend with the movie well.
Bottom line, the score actually pulled me out of the move rather than enhancing it.
2. The production design. Don't go gettin crazy on me just yet. I loved most of it, including all of the human equipment, vehicles, ships, etc. But the rest was pretty meh. There simply wasnt enough of Giger's influence carried out and it was the stark contrast between Ron Cobb's amazing work and Giger's that made Alien much of what it is. The hammerpede and the Engineer's suit looked Gigeresque, but nothing else new did. Even the Juggernaut seemed much less organic than the original. And the Engineers could have used some more details. I wanted their suits to perhaps include tubing or tatoos around the face to match the Big Head statue and just make them more cohesive visually. Also, I loved the coloration on the suits, and wanted the Engineers skin to match that as well. The bright blue just felt over the top and like a way to get us to the blue alien that would lead to the blue/black xeno.
And don't get me started on the new xeno or squidbilly. They look like second rate parodies of Giger work at best. And old man Weyland was really bad too.
Nitpicky, I know. But I really the art direction to be as impeccable as it was in BR and Alien. It's close to perfect here, but [i]in those two movies it was perfect.[/i]
3. Illogical character actions. The Mc-Goo-fin doesn't bother me. The fairly shallow characterizations don't either. And even the key point of exposition in the movie being delivered by someone detached from most of the events in the plot doesn't bother me.
But the world's top scientists acting like incompetent morons repeatedly does.
In the end, I liked the movie. It's not on the level of Alien or BR, but it is definitely a worthy entry into the franchise as well as the possible start of a new one.
loseyourname
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 8:14 PMScott has said that he always envisioned the space jockey discovered by the Nostromo crew as a biomechanical suit, not an actual body. The head was modeled after the helmet of a fighter jet pilot.
Anyway, the thing that bothered me most was the minor characters doing stupid things, even stupid, out of character, things, for the sole purpose of becoming monster fodder because that's what the plot requires. It's lazy writing, and you accept it somewhat from cheap horror flicks, but not from a movie like this that clearly wants to be taken seriously.
Other than that, I don't mind embracing ambiguity, and I think it makes a lot of sense that someone from a particular species might want to seed a planet to see what happens, and someone else from that same species 3.5 billion years later might decide he wants to destroy what the previous guy created. I mean, we've seen human kings burn and salt the land of prior kings basically just to be dicks, and certainly as new religions are adopted, it's common for the followers to try and wipe out every achievement and remnant of the previous one.
I can even accept that black goo is a substrate that carries different active substances that can do different things, the way we use a phone to remotely communicate, play games, and take photos, something that wouldn't make much sense to a fifth century human watching it, but makes sense to me. They're aliens. What they do and the technology they use may look strange to us, and might even look magical.
However, I'm afraid that in trying to make things make sense in the sequel, the writers are going to get lazy and give explanations that don't hold up under scrutiny, just because they don't seem like great writers and I can see that happening.
Also, I'm a little bored that every single movie on the planet these days seems to feel the need to always up the stakes to "world will end if we don't succeed." There's nothing wrong with plain old death or failure to motivate characters. It doesn't always have to be Armageddon. Buffy the Vampire Slayer very effectively parodied this fifteen years ago but writers out there keep doing the same damn thing. Don't they notice that the first two Alien films were by far the most effective, in spite of the fact that the survival of the entire human race was never at stake? Viewers aren't that jaded that extinction is the only thing that can make them care.
Hadley's Hope
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 8:28 PM[i]Hadley's Hope, this is the second time you've claimed that the "medpod" was in the "wrong lifeboat."
What are you talking about.....there's only one lifeboat on the Prometheus. There are several escape pods but only one lifeboat.
[/i]
I think we'll have to get some film footage to verify this, but go look at even the weyland industries page, and it shows TWO lifeboat modules on the schematic of the ship. On on top of the left part of the stern, another on the right. The left one is Weylands, and the right one ejects from the ship, and is Vickers' private quarters. Weylands quarters are not shown until he's preparing to leave the ship. We can see from the corridor, that it's a different door to his quarters. than to Vicker's quarters. There are no doors left slightly ajar in his quarters unlike Vickers, who will do push ups in her knickers, and leave top of the range medical facilities in rooms with doors that are slightly open. (automatic doors by the way, with motors to close them)
And you think that if the medpod is in Weylands lifeboat, where he has been HIDING.... she can walk in, use his medpod and leave an alien creature in it without getting any intervention from his armed guards?
If there's only one lifeboat, where is Vickers coming from when he says "I wasn;t sure you'd come" She's coming from her quarters to his.
This is a KING, he doesn't share a room with his daughter. He barely acknowledges her. In his briefing he points out his 'almost son' and never makes any reference to his daughter, including when he mentions who is in charge. You think THESE two shared a lifeboat?
[i]You also apparently missed Janek informing Fifield that the storm was causing signal interference.
[/i]
Two points a) he said that about their video feed when they asked him if he was seeing what they're seeing. b) Look at the action just before that. He is looking at the icon for probe 1. and then he asks Milburn and Fifield where they are.
WHAT is also in shot on the 3D map? two yellow rotating icons one with a letter "M" and the other with the letter "F" above. Clearly these are locator beacons, and still he's asking where they are as if he doesn't see them.
[i]Also, the quad-track didn't "magically" appear. Shaw had been blown down wind, and the quad-track eventually followed her path. There's nothing mysterious about it. I never saw it smash into anything hard enough to completely destroy it. Did you?[/i]
Did I saw it should be completely destroyed? No. It did collide with part of the ship, before flying off in the wind at high speed. Surely the odd dent, scratch and being partially buried in gravel might be realistic don't you think?
Alienpuzzle
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 9:18 PMI think few people realize how much less we would understand of the movie plot if not for the abundance of trailers and other "spoilers". There is a reason for that and for the viral campaign as well, and the reason is that the screenplay has serious expository problems. This is obvious when a character has to explain to you all that has been going on, like Janek telling Shaw: You know what this is?: a military outpost etc etc. Actually, this part of the dialogue was probably added in the last minute, because in the trailer he just says: "You know what this is?: Hell". Or when Shaw jumps to conclusions about the humanity pissing off engineers 2000 yrs ago.. where does it come from?... I know: from the mind of inept writers who were not able to follow the logical thread of the narrative.
Well, that's what I dislike the most, the narrative mess plus the whole "I choose to believe" nonsense.
artyoh
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 9:23 PM@Hadley's Hope
I've never seen a shred of tangible evidence that there's more than one lifeboat on that ship. The schematics I've seen mention a "lifeboat" ( singular. )
The ship's layout schematc includes space for "Vicker's quarters", and there's no mention of, or frankly, [i]room[/i] for another luxurious suite. Additionally, when David uses the visor to communicate with Weyland, the cryotube is in a relatively small space, probably adjacent to the suite.
If you can provide a link to a schematic with a clear indication of [i]two[/i] lifeboat modules, I'm more than willing to look.
Fifield and Milburn didn't become lost until after the storm enveloped the temple complex. They had no direct access to the mapping data, and just because there's a positional read-out on the holographic display, [i]that doesn't necessarily mean it's real-time data.[/i] Given the apparent line-of-sight nature of the scanning sphere's technology, it probably only indicates their last-known position, after the spheres moved further into the maze of tunnels.
As far as the quad-track "issue" is concerned, I honestly think you're picking an infinitessimal, completely irrelevant, nit.
Wearbe
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 10:25 PMOverall I liked the movie. I think it had all the elements of potentially being a top notch production, but, like so many PC games, it felt like it was rushed through the conceptual stages and then rushed through completion to go GOLD to meet a deadline rather than a quality control benchmark. Unlike PC games, we can't wait for a patch to correct the bugs (well, I suppose a Director's Cut is possible in 10 years?)
My 3 main complaints:
1. The writing was sloppy. Yeah, horror movie people do stupid stuff, but there were some overly stupid moments coming from people who should be brilliant AND there were serious story arc shortcuts that were obscene.
2. The amazingly fast incubation and/or growth of some of the organisms (and how did some of them, ahem, huggypuss, get so big without an obvious source of protein?)
3. There were some 3D artifacts left over (I saw the 2D movie) so that you could see some shiny, blue and red sparkles on rocks, ships, lights, etc where it is obvious that those things would be sticking out in 3D. The "glitter" was jarring to the immersiveness of the experience.
artyoh
MemberOvomorphJun-10-2012 10:45 PM#2 applies equally to the original; ( really, all of the franchise movies.) How did that tiny chestburster morph into a 7 foot tall monster? It didn't even eat Jonesy......
jgrjr
MemberOvomorphJun-11-2012 12:55 AMLikes
It is rare to leave a film and not "get" everything. Hollywood does not take chances. Love the risk taking.
Positives from the Lost writer- Ambiguity a positive from the Lost writer.
Visually astounding.
Dislikes
The general unprofessionalism and lack of logic with the crew. In Alien the crew are not scientists but for the most part act with logic and professionalism. The Prometheus crew are scientists. The Hollywood portrayal was sad. Would someone remove thier helmet in an atmosphere that would support life just because it is breathable? Crazy.
Lost writer Negative-I will not go on but I think a lot of the illogic comes from the Lost writer. When you sit accross from someone to write your film for a month and he says things like " we will show this and really mean that and by the way that is not a polar bear" you get the kind of things that bothered most of us.
Prenihility
MemberOvomorphJun-11-2012 1:12 AMYes, the visuals. No doubt. Yet no surprise, given that it's Ridley Scott. This is his thing. Attention to detail.
I was absolutely blown away by the Engineer. Cosmetics nowadays... seriously.
He looked REAL. Extremely impressive.
Zygote
MemberOvomorphJun-11-2012 1:22 AMHorribly disappointed with the movie.
When writers have the opportunity to create a believable science fiction story they have an entire universe of ideas to pull stuff from.
These "writers" obviously didn't realise that and so they instead added slime, squid, movie set pieces from raiders of the lost ark and connected it all together with some absurd b grade plots and ended it with a scene where the last remaining human, after all her colleagues, friends, boyfriend have been slaughtered and she's been virtually stranded on a planet decides despite being a archeologist / scientist that instead of going home to recuperate and get reinforcements, oh and be astonishingly famous / rich / win the noble prize for bringing back a working alien spacecraft, its technology and the location of many more that instead she'll go off alone to find the apparently psychotic aliens that built it and who apparently might still want to destroy the human race...
As for the "explanation" for the beginning of Ripley's Aliens... how much more frankenstein tech could that get. Some little grey spores in some wine, infect a mans sperm, impregnate a woman, who later (a day?) aborts it, it turns out to be a squid, which then grows into a huge monster octopus, which then lays apparently an egg inside a giant humanoid (which despite having 100'% perfect dna to us is hugely different) who then gestates the fetus and gives birth to a creature that looks neither squidlike, humanoid, or even like the Ripleys intermediate alien egglayers.
The main question which the movie raised for me was, where can I get the drugs they're doing??
Prenihility
MemberOvomorphJun-11-2012 1:55 AM",,,(which despite having 100'% perfect dna to us is hugely different) who then gestates the fetus and gives birth to a creature that looks neither squidlike, humanoid, or even like the Ripleys intermediate alien egglayers."
THAT, THAT! RIGHT THERE!
Please, Mr. Zygote. Look out for my next thread. And that goes for everyone who acknowledges the last paragraph of his post, and the recent threads on the Deacon/Progenitor Xenomorph, and last Engineer's behaviour.
It's like i'm constantly being reminded/teased into posting my thoughts! LOL.
So many things are connecting to my theory.
johnalanmichael
MemberOvomorphJun-11-2012 9:32 AMFirst off, like another had mentioned, I didn't buy the relationship of Shaw & Holloway, whose character as also mentioned before was TV show quality at best. A poorly written character & poorly cast. This film had almost a Battlestar Galactica cast feel to it. Rapace was ok & deliberately not a Ripley ripoff, which was good but a stronger lead should have been written, maybe male this time, but obviously a male can't get pregnant. Which I found strange in itself. Why was David scanning her before awakening & seemingly no one else? He gained some info there. AND it seemed to me she was the only one who was sick from cryostasis...( morning sickness?) It had been since 2089 that we last saw her & then she is awakened from cryo in 2094 after 2 yrs. Was she possibly pregnant before leaving on Prometheus? We were informed later & conveniently that she couldn't get pregnant so it's plausible she & Holloway had a little celebratory or typical last "romp" before a 2 yr. cryostasis, during which David obviously had been scanning her AND during which also the embryo she was miraculously carrying, unbeknownst to her, was also in cryostasis, which upon awakening she & Holloway would inevitably have an eventual "romp". David knew this which is why he infected Holloway which may have triggered the conception OR accelerated it, in either case David was curious to begin a mutation for a new species & knew WHO to infect albeit under the guise of some sort of hostility between he & Holloway. However, wouldn't she be infected also? Either through intercourse OR the fact that the freshly removed xeno, through cesarean, burst the sack, releasing infected xeno blood into her not yet stapled abdomen? Will she not suffer the same result as Holloway? Just my thoughts on that but something to consider. Anyway, the two guys who got lost was a disaster part of the storyline...they run away from giant dead bodies & never mention they can't find their way back UNTIL it's too late? And THEN the one wants to pet the little baby, pretty girl slithering overgrown parasite hammerhead!? BS!! THEN he winds up at the bay door like the THING?! …AND THEY OPEN UP THE DOOR?! No way!
Another topic of discussion seems to be if they were on the same planet as in Aliens (LV426) or not. This wreaks of a City Alpha 5 scenario even if it turns out to be nothing in the eventual sequels, but it might help here. The grossly old man Weyland was terrible & also wreaks of another character whose life was prolonged in hopes of the event of discovering a way to live longer or forever as in the old man in Contact. It's a safe bet we'll probably see Guy Pearce in many flashbacks in eventual sequels which could only explain why they had him in the role in the first place.
Janek was a waste of a potentially huge strong lead & probably should have been in this, instead he was just a somewhat rough space cowboy in minimal support, the new Yaphet Kotto, who was phenomenal in the classic. Overall this was a bust & word of mouth over the next two weeks may just sink any sequel talk. I wanted this film/story to leave me in awe SO MUCH but it failed miserably & probably so because it deliberately set itself up to rely on sequels to answer all the questions, which is terrible to do! Fassbender was terrific & Theron & her character Vickers were under utilized. This film was a letdown. I liked the Engineers story but it was ruined amongst all the shortcomings of the rest of the story. The absolute best part of the film was cinematography, that's it, but it can't do much at all to save this film. Extremely disappointed.
Prenihility
MemberOvomorphJun-11-2012 9:05 PMWoah, woah, woah... Indentation, spaces. Please, please. I almost got cataract after reading that.
But yeah. Keep em' comin'!
Wearbe
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 9:43 PMartyoh said "#2 applies equally to the original; ( really, all of the franchise movies.) How did that tiny chestburster morph into a 7 foot tall monster? It didn't even eat Jonesy......"
In Alien, Brett was killed (and, I assumed, eaten) in the early phase of the Alien's development. The Alien had a nice long tail but its overall size was obscured enough that it could have been skinny and not fully developed... Or at least that is how my young mind dealt with that paradox of biology back then. I also figured that the Alien had the run of the ship when it was small and was busy seeking out nutrients as it was hiding and shedding and growing.
Really, all they had to do in the movies would be to show food stores being raided... torn open storage containers or anything, really.
Or maybe I just missed the memo on how they develop. Many life forms that we know are mostly water (and there has always been plenty of that in the Alien movies) and we don't know if Aliens actually EAT (I don't remember seeing any of them eating)... maybe they osmos any and all carbon material they come into contact with, in which case they just need to hide out and rub up against a lot of stuff, lol........ anyone here current on their Alien Biology fluff?
Chrisyjuk
MemberOvomorphJun-14-2012 4:36 PMLikes
[list]
The visual scale of this thing. Some shots spoke a 1000 words. Prometheus streaking across space silently for example.
Janek and Vickers chemistry when they got the chance to display it
What I took from the film and loved was the hint that Janek may have had an ulterior motive directly at odds with Weyland's recover the biotech priorities. For example, when he tells Fifield his feed is patchy/non-existent, yet it's crystal clear on the screen. Him insisting out of nowhere all he is there for is keeping this stuff away from earth, yet no-one outside Shaw, Holloway, Vickers and Weyland, perhaps David too knew what the mission entailed. He could have formed this opinion whilst on the planet though.
The film itself, it deserves it's place in the Alien universe and if Ridley hadn't helmed this, we wouldn't be so disappointed it wasn't Alien. He has obviously had his arm twisted by the studio to pace the film a certain way. He couldn't have made an Alien again, because he already defined the genre with Alien, so I'm not too unhappy with that.
Evil David
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Dislikes
[list]
The writing!!! Jesus the writing is bad. The ignition key for the ship's a flute? What is this Zelda?!?! I hope Shaw's packed her Ocarina for her trip to the Engineer home world. The film lacked any kind of suspense. Take the medpod scene. Started promisingly. Out comes the alien, then there's a few minutes of Shaw struggling to get out of the medpod and freeze the beastie. Why do we care one way or the other about this? All the alien was seen to be doing was thrashing about, the aliens reaction bore no reflection on Shaw being there. So why do we care whether she slides out the medpod or not? We don't know what the alien is trying to do, it's not trying to attach Shaw, we don't see a mouth. We don't see any attempted face hugging or any attack. That whole half of the scene on first and second viewing just roused no response from me whatsoever, and it was indicative of the second half of the film I thought. Maybe it's too cerebral for me I don't know, but a lack of motives coupled with the quick pacing smacks of very childlike form of writing, where the first half of the story is laid out in great detail, and the ending takes a single page.
The editing - there's a lot longer version out there. One that maybe addresses the criticism the film is attracting. The trailer shows Shaw purposefully slamming a truck into reverse. That footage makes it into the film, but we don't see it's Shaw, it's when Fifield gets run over, which happens concurrently with Shaw's C section. As others had stated another 30-40 minutes of film could do wonders for the story.
The huge notable plot holes. Why build a star map pointing to a military base? The best I could come up with was to act as a trap to lure suitable life to be used with the black goo. A long winded slow-burner of a plan granted. Also, Milburn being a moron in the face of a hostile life form, although I can accept artistic license to an extent there.
The whole Holloway character, truly awful
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Doc. Caliban
MemberOvomorphJun-15-2012 4:05 AMI'm pretty sure that he said, "Hands [i]off[/i]". Ah, Freud.
I didn't like the lack of serious attitude on the part of most of the scientists. "We spent all this money and effort to get here, left everyone we knew behind to die long before we could ever return due to relativity, we believe that we are making the greatest discovery of mankind, but ... f**k it, let's take our hats off and poke at everything in non-quarantined environments."
Of course most of the action would not have taken place at all had they treated all of the potential contagions appropriately.
Still, I found Holloway to be a ham-fisted, frat boy ... the character seemed entirely out of place IMO.
-Doc.
Spartacus
MemberOvomorphJun-15-2012 4:27 AMWith all due respect, I am curious what any of you think any of this achieves? I mean the OP starts with these words...
[quote][b]Allright. Before i start; As much as i'd like to speculate more, discuss theories and whatnot, i want to get down to the negative aspects. The disappointments, and dissatisfaction that was felt by everyone.[/b][/quote]
Oh really, you speak for me now?
So, if I get it then, the point it is to depress yourselves as badly as you can, is that it?
Because, I felt 100% of NONE. In fact it was one of the best "In-Theater" experiences I have had in my 50 years!
[b]Bonus:[/b] it was the single most beautiful looking film I have ever seen as well!
[b]Bonus #2[/b]: It was splattered full of references to stuff I love like music from the 60's and Horror movies from the 50's through the 90's.
[b]Bonus #3:[/b] It had the Best Mix of 3D & Audio Surround I have ever seen felt or heard!
[b]Bonus #4:[/b] You had to be a "Thinker" type person and be able to suspend your disbelief and have had a long, rich and varied in cultural life experiences type of personal past to "get it".
[b]Bonus #5:[/b] It was so great just to be close to LV-426 again, and to see how amazing the Gaping hole of Possibilities is that Ridley Scott has given us all as a wonderful gift, the perpetuation of the series, and the future discovery of the very origins of the "Xenomorph" he has now foretold.
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MemberOvomorphJun-15-2012 4:28 AM1. The Musical Score. (Disliked a lot) I found it incongruent with the visual tone.
2. The death of Janek. (Disliked)Wouldn't it be easier to chase it from a safe distance and then warn the earth armed forces the juggernaut and the intercept it?
3. The big boy. (Disliked somewhat) A face hugger would have done the job just fine.
StringerBell
MemberOvomorphJun-15-2012 4:37 AMIt just feels like a massive missed opportunity.
I've seen it twice now, and thats as good as its gonna get. massive disappointment.
The pacing gets worse with repeated viewing. so rushed.
and this time the Score did jar me....
The major flaws are still huge, and takes me out the film.
who cares theres like a 3hr version laying around.
As a Cinema goer, i feel cheated.
nothing changes from my initial reaction... 5/10 at best.
I love the logic of Shaw, when upon her 3rd visit to the temple, She suddenly is concerned about exposure to Alien Infections due to taking the Helmet off.
YOU TOOK YOUR HELMET OFF TWICE ALREADY!!! NOW YOUR BOTHERED?!!
YOU'VE LEFT AN ALIEN BEING JUST HANGING ON THE SHIP, THAT YOU GAVE BIRTH TOO, AND NOT TOLD ANYONE..NOT EVEN A F.Y.I EMAIL!!!
YOU THINK I'M GONNA LISTEN TO YOU ABOUT HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUES
sorry just lapsed there..... and for me that was a minor flaw, compared to the others in the film.
Kane77
MemberOvomorphJun-15-2012 5:16 AMbasically nice movie, could have been MUCH better.
[b]dislikes:[/b]
script.
Whatever Lindeloff was contributing, Scott is the director, so he is in charge for the overall.
- character development. really, this was quite disappointing, dont get me wrong, these are top notch actors. You cant feel any deeper, real character, but a loose line for the story. ONLY that would have been important. Alien ( and I dont directly compare) EXISTED MOSTLY of THAT feel.
ONLY because of that no suspence could develop. It has a battlestar series feel.
The movie just follows, better,[b]illustrates[/b] in thin lines the plot RATHER than developing strong, dark and lifeful pictures that impregnate your brain.( I´m not only comparing it to Alien but to other Scott films). I thought, I hope this gets better, this style of mainstream movies I don't need HERE.
THE ONLY ACTING THAT STOODS OUT IS THAT OF DAVID!
main flaw: the mission is stated as an scientific exploring, but they do everything to hurt that. Like little kids they stumble into the temple, grasping for breath, touch everything, take the head into the ship ..Because of that David is able to take unrecognized an ampule on board. No science, [b]Tomb Raider[/b] in Space.
They take the head on board and stick some muti-voltage device in into the most important archeological find in 2000 years, no, mankind?? To reanimate?? Do you do that with a , lets say, early christian head?? then it waggles its ears and eyes like a frog you put into a microwave..[b]come on.[/b]
The hangar Weyland briefing scene/ Weyland scenes overall.. WOULD have been nice when they developed a stronger, basic picture of Peter Weyland´s ideas and agenda in the background, PARALLEL to the main plot. Kind of threatening or sinister one.. IMO. That WOULD HAVE GIVEN a whole new REASON and TENSION to the plot. Maybe the only valid one in this movie.
Too, his relationship to his daughter. ( Actually we only see hints of, in the hangar briefing scene, when he calls David, a robot, as his kinda son and Vickers looks aside..).
The plot just cant develop and breath. The fire blows out constantly.
Acting: sorry, it just goes under, again, because of the mainstream style of plot/ story developing. Best scene of Vickers: " In my room. In 10 minutes" . seriously. Fifield and Milburn stand out, too, simply because of their status, they are merchendaries, a small hint to the blue/white collar thing in Alien I. The old capitalism problem, we´re only in it for the money.
I liked Fifield´s accent, too.
The Peter Weyland appearance when he wants to meet his maker. A joke. THE WHOLE MISSION is based on Weyland and then he just gets into his electronic walker and gets knocked down by the engineer.
-the ending scene. much too short. why would Shaw ( as she represents the christian believer type) try to get to the alien planet after all that, JUST BECAUSE she is a beliver in christ? no.
then, how, does she get to the other ship and start it with Davids help? we just see a derelict type ship starting off into the clouds..
- the MedPod in Vickers chamber, MALE-ONLY.
and why isnt the room LOCKED? What happens to the baby squid, does it hang around there till the space jockey arrives later? the door still unlocked..
-score. not strong enough.
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