Engineers running from a Predator

LOL I Love the Predators and Predator is one of those movies i can watch over and over and not many i can do that with and that inc Alien. I dont think its intended to be the Predators as while Ridley may not have foreseen the Xeno to Evolve into what Aliens etc did, he is not that opposed to it but he was not impressed by AVP. Lets forget those Movies never ever happened though... Look at the Games the AVP Games are non Canon to the movies they dont tie in. AVP the Games is a interesting concept and one that had it been done right could have worked and tied in as Canon. That was basically to set AVP as either. 1) After the events of Aliens 3 or in another part of the Galaxy. 2) Have them come to Earth to kidnap Humans to then take to a Alien World (like in Predators) where some Humans would be used as Hosts for the Xeno and others as other Game to Hunt. It was the idea that the Predators stored Xenos in Temples on Earth and hunted them there that was the big issue... but again not so bad. But AVP2 well that movie basically opened a can of worms as far as damage to the franchise and canon. Now some was wondering if Ridley was going to RE-BOOT the Alien Franchise... He could still if done right Re-Boot the AVP one.... by making Predators Canon to Prometheus but then making the AVP movies timeline as none canon which Prometheus is already doing with Peter Weyland as founder and not Charles Bishop Weyland..

Expanding on the idea of if the Predators was behind the Urns. Well what we are left with then is whats the Sacrificial Engineer drinking, the only conclusion could be either. 1) The Engineers stole that from the Predators Millions or years ago. 2) The Urns contained something that created Eggs and Xenos but the Engineers decided to add their Goo Substance to the Mix.

Bringing Predators to the mix would be really unimaginative. They're great in their own right, but have no place in the Prometheus genre. Going forward, we want to find out more about Gods and the vastness of the Engineers' empire, not see a few reptiles fighting it out dependent on their battery-packs for an advantage.

@ zzplural ... Preach!

zzplural and Oneironaut 717>, hate to burst both of your bubbles, but I'm pretty sure the topic of this forum has proven you both wrong. So . . . yea

@ Warrior7, mark this day in your diary - you shall be proven wrong my friend! May the Gods smite you and your absurd blasphemous nonsense! In all seriousness though, I want to see Prometheus move forward - I want to know who the Engineer's are - how they came to be and how and where did they obtain the black goo, and so on and so on. RS including Predators - is taking one step back and completely absurd.

+1 @Oneironaut. agreed. ...so absurd, in fact, that it boggles the mind that a discussion is even necessary.

Excuse me @zzplural but saying that the original Space Jockey idea of having its nose attached to its chest is not daft in my opinion. It might look silly to some, including you. But to me it looks very terrifying. Its different and macbre. That is exactly what the Alien was all about. We viewed two different alien beings in Alien. The Xenonmorph and the Space Jockey. The Xenomorph enters a body, grows then errupts from the host body and continues to grow to its full size. So you can believe and except that concept, that alien being. But you cant except a 15 foot humanoid being that has an elephantine head attached to its shoulders with its nose attached to its chest. Now tell me whats the difference between the two beings. There is much difference between both life forms. But the one thing they have in common is that they are literaly out of this world. Who are we to speculate what other life forms should look like. Why do those life forms have to settle in to what we expect alien beings to look like. Who are we to argue with the cosmos as to how other life forms should look like. Are we gods? I dont think so. I will say it know. Ridley will give us the original Space Jockey concept on screen for the sequel to Prometheous. It is a given, because the secret is in the Space Jockey scene in Alien. The truth and proof is right in front of us.

On a serious note i dont think Ridley would be bringing the Predator into the equation. Maybe he and Lindelof have added things to tease us, there is a lot in the movie that can be interpreted as clues to stuff that the movie may not even be about or include. Maybe the Green Blood and the Glyphs on the Urns are made to look a bit Predator so as to fuel fire and get us wondering if there is a connection when there is not. Just like the Deacon Mural that also has a part on top that looks like the Xeno Queens Crown so to speak but it can be interpreted as either but may be neither. Some are expecting that Prometheus 2 will reveal that the Space Jockey is actually not a Engineer in the suit and some are expecting that Ridley will be re-booting the Xeno, well will leave clues and answers that validate the Alien but then make the Aliens to Alien Resurrection Xeno be well considered non canon. I do not think any of that will occur, Ridley has a tale to tell about these Engineers and Elders and one that may tie in more with the Titans and Anunaki than reverting to be about the Space Jockey and Xeno.

Well said, BigDave. I couldn't agree more. I'd wish that AVP stuff would stop popping up already, at least in context with ALIEN and Prometheus.

Yes I agree with both of you @BigDave and @Hal9000. Both of you are true Alien fans and respect the past.

Just to clarify, I have nothing against the original Predator concept/franchise although its sequels (especially "Predators") are questionable. And I still don't understand how Adrien Brody and Laurence Fishburne (both fantastic actors IMO) got sucked into that! Well, I guess we all go through rough patches and need a bit of extra cash every now and then. Now there's a "Predators 2" on the horizon? Oh my. As for the AVP series I wish they'd never happened in the first place, no offense to all the fans out there...

I also think that it may be a lil pointless to EVENTUALLY tie Predators in....however like some of you agree....it would be UN-Just to us ALIEN, Preadator, AvP fans not to somehow tie in one lil part of the Predators in these movies....since instead of the AvP movies being what they were.....we know that from the AvP story was written period...Predators and Xenos share each others stories somewhere in the ALIENS franchise and the Predator franchise.....honestly we all loved this movie andseem like relgious addicts to our child hood no.1 movies....we love the Engineers story and we are giving our opinions on why and how....but the Ulitimate....ultimate...end of the line journey for us ends in the AvP multiverse....i love the ALIEN movies by themselves...i Love the Predator movies by themselves...."OK....WHO's Next?" -Predator 2...and I own and STILL watch both AvP movies also.......but we all in the end want one or two movies that just connects everyone together period...because WE know they are.....so RS is just the directer and the main person who wanted to launch the project from the get go...but not the writer....but i think TRUE writters and directors should give the fans what they want...so hopefully they will....

And the "Elephant" engineer idea seems waaaayyy unbelieveable...imean the first ALIEN movie having the big space jockey was just a scaling thing...remeber that movie was made in the 70's and the movie was going to be unlike any other movie abt aliens...so i think there was no such thing as an elephant jockey...and the engineers came from them too...it seems to me...its just the engineeers/space jockeys period....and remember like someone else mention the atmosphere was diff....so it ddnt oxidize in the way like it would have if O2 was present....and it became fossilized...the jockey blood and chemical make up...would have made the fossilization process different...which may have made the original jockey look bigger then it really was....just my toughts......I Love this game.....

No offense to any of you, but the basis of this film was a prequel to the Alien franchise. Be honest with yourselves, would any of one be anywhere near as interested as you would have been about the film if it had no connection with the Alien franchise at all? Would you have still seen it? Would you have even watched a trailer for it? Many of you will no doubt say yes but you and I both know that it was the marketing of this film being an indirect prequel to Alien that got it the press and advertising, not the basis of it being a film about "where we came from". This, my scholars, IS canon. Sorry

Sorry guys, but those Engineers were chest-bursted by xenos or something similar. This is an interesting theory, but it is stated in Prometheus that the Engineer bodies had "burst from within" There were holes visible in some, just like the crashee in the original Alien. Seems more likely an outbreak/infection, especially given they were experimenting/utilizing Xeno DNA or something very similar. Also, the Engineer falling to his knees is also clutching his abdomen, as if being ripped open right at that moment. The cool part that I like about your Predator theory is the Invisibilty Ability of The Predator. This would account for the attackers not being visible on any recordings, and why the entry appeared to have been Blasted In. That being said, Alien and Aliens are the only 'Canon' films in the series, Ridley will NEVER incorporate the Predator into his world.

Random side note: THE GREEN CRYSTAL was originally a bowl identical to the one the Sacrificial Engineer drinks from in the first scene. Ie: presumably not Predator DNA. It seems to contain an altogether different substance than the BLACK GOO. (Not a mutating agent but a dissolving/dissembling one used specifically for the Seeding Sacrifice.

@Ribirosa: [i]the original Space Jockey idea of having its nose attached to its chest is not daft in my opinion. It might look silly to some, including you. But to me it looks very terrifying. Its different and macbre.[/i] I agree with you on that 100%. It is H. R. Giger through and through. His paintings are often full of bio-mechanoid creatures that are bonded to their surroundings. The claustrophobia of such is disconcerting. The pinning of the SJ to his seat, and his snout to his chest adds to the claustrophobia. This is so deliberate, it is no accident. We'll agree that he is terrifying and macabre.

There is some kind of misinterpretatin on the post above. ALL the advertising material (Everything) was tied by the Juggernaut images as well as the Space Jockey scenes...those are the images.... No DAMNED XENO nor any Queen or whatsoever (I like James Cameron, but sad was the day Aliens came forth). So the ties of Prometheus, since its beginning, are with Alien (Not Aliens and all the nonsense coming later...dogs, predators, what next? Cats ? Maybe not as Jonesy was left untouched..inate allergy to cats?) and ALIEN alone. The imagery there are homagges and references probably asked by Fox Execs, but I doubt any of those blockheads would EVER finance another Space Ants vs Dumb Grunts movies, only buying this project because the potential success the Space Jockey theme would bring, because fans of the first Alien ( and some fans of the original do not touch the silly sequels) to support and make the idea extremelly successful, and the story would call for new fans to whom the Space Ants (worst than Space Ants, they are Mutant Space Ants) would never really appeal. It is not a success for being a continuation to the monster movie, but because it would address some of the tantallizing images from the first movie, and the derelict on that lonely moon, forever screaming and forever sending its weird audio signal, pleading for anyone listening and able to understand to NEVER land in that forsaken moon... I still keep that if they had explained the SJ as they are doing now, there would not have been enough interest to start something like the Alien franchise spent due dumbness of the sequels. As it was said before, the Monster Theme was already pointless (Mutant Space Ants killing humans = everlasting boredom). Canon...if you really pay attention to Alien, its dialogues, its premises and its imaging (and includes the so well detailed book as well) the only canon aroud is ALIEN alone, the rest were just matinee monster movies, and I would prefer Cloverfield than those, for it at least had some intriguing imaging) And there are some inconsistencies (aha, being modest here) in continuity even with ALIEN itself really appaling, and they might not even address them just to keep their beloved Muscle Guys on scene...like one of the really original things there, the audio signal, with its alien weird voice in it, which we KNOW now was not from these "engineers" . Avoid if you you desire, as some seems to really like the steroid guys, but those cannot be the SJ that left that audio going...we know after seeing Prometheus they are not the same...so poof, there goes continuity if they choose to keep them as the same... Some can say they like what was done to the ALIEN stry with the sequels, but calling them coherent and really original is hardly justifiable. Say you like it , it is all right, but better not classifying as canon everything, for the support reasons for such claim hardly hold if reasoning and observation is applied... On a side note here, I like Predator and Predators, they are very good movies, and the Predators movie is a very happy event, for it IS rebooting and revitalizing the Predators, who were being sucked down by the dying Mutant Space Ants movies (now without the grunts - oh, yes, that was the originallity I see....)

I would like to thank you for agreeing with me @zzplural. The elephantine Space Jockey possibility is what the Alien universe is all about. We cannot explain the universe as a whole. We can speculate about its origin and come to various theorys. One thing is for sure, the universe is eternal, cold and very dark.    Now in saying that I would like to say a few more words. Yes @Avaphunter there are a few die-hard fans that would like to see a Predator/Alien tie in. But those die-hard fans are a small group called AVP fans, I would expect that you are one of its members. You choose the name yourself. No my friend true Alien (meaning the first movie) fans do not care for the Predator/Alien tie-in. In fact the AvP movies have brought nothing positive to the table. They look more like well produced cable films, and not cinema quality material. As long as Ridley is directing his Alien/Prometheous franchise, AvP will be just a word in there minds. They were badly directed, badly cast, and badly written. Im sorry to say but the Predator race will not be included in any future Alien/Prometheous projects. You can bet on that.     Also the Elephantine Space Jockey is awesome. It is what we as humans call unexplainable, terrifying and macbre. It is everything HR Giger had in mind. Giger who was influenced by HP Lovecraft's Chtutlo mythos. Which is all about horrific monstrous space gods who came to earth milliones and milliones of years ago. They are huge grotesque life forms who created the human race by accident. Now how can you tell me that the Elephantine Space Jockey possibliity is unbelievable. I agree with you it is unbelievable. But that is what makes it so original and creative. Its a creature that cannot be explained by human standards. So it being unbelievable is a perfect discription of it. Thank you for adding that word to your post, even though you probably though it was a negative comment. But in reality it describes the Elephantine Space Jockey to the tilt.      I also have to add another important point to my post. Im sorry @warrior7 but Prometheous was never made to be a prequel to Alien. Ridley explained it over and over again in different interviews that Prometheous was not a prequel. What it was, was a movie that takes place in the same universe about 35 years in the past. And yes any true Alien fan would have seen Prometheous even if it was not about the Space Jockey itself. Come on, a true die hard fan follows and supports what he likes. At least I can say that because I am a trueee fan.           

i've said it on other threads that pred's created aliens... its stated in pro', that engineer's bassically kick started our evolution off, but everyone is taking it as the engineers were basically the first space stage species out there. we dont know that. what we do know is that pretty much all engin tech was bio-mech. the only item we see which isnt bio-mech on the planet is... the vials of black goo. the big question is though, which puts me off preds making the goo. is the fact the engins had soo many vials.. there was 1000's in 1 ship. and david state's there were dozens of ships... dozens * 1000's = 100,000's. i doubt they stole that much black goo... you dont need a sea of salt to find out its salty?. get my drift. but the pred haters are pissing me off. preds/aliens/engins/humans/squids would put the avenger's to shame.

but.. with that... as someone else stated a few of the engins' were apparently "chest busted". is this not the perfect way to get aliens to lv233? here's my theory, as engins have "perfect dna". or as close as it gets, every engin thats hugged, births a queen. you see 2 or 3 engin's escape... where do they go? to the ships!. how far into space do they get before the busters in their chests or chest, as it'd only take one. before they busted out and caused the ship to crash?.. a few days tops. that would explain the xeno imprint in the "tomb" where they first find the vials. its the only logical explanation for how the xeno got to lv233. now, to pred blood etc. how did the contamination get out? what we're they running from? if a xeno outbreak did really happen, the xeno would've taken the body's somewhere which explains no body... taking heads for trophy's?. preds only take the heads of THEIR kills. not just any head. so any xeno kills would be left alone. also, they would only take the head if they had the spare time. the xeno's may have been un-expected by both engin/pred alike. so they retreated before they/ engineer's alike got wiped out from that planet. just some speculation :D go deacon!, king of the xeno!, first truly intelligent Xeno!. go "get sum!!"

@warrior7........i will raise my hand and admit as a fan to everthing you are saying.....WE the fans knew exactly what the movie was....Ridley Scott:-"....This is not a prequel!...."......US FANS after watching the movie- "......Dude.....YES it is....lol"......so yes from trailers i would not have went the first day to this movie if i ddnt know what it was in relation too....and i might not have seen it at all if i ddnt.....

I won't argue with you, Rubirosa. Ridley did state that he was trying to move away from the Giger-style, bio-mechanical, pseudyo-sexual world of Alien with Prometheus. It is it's own story (but only just barely I might add seeing how the two main actors are helping producing the sequel). But even you can't deny the blatant undertone which literally climaxes in final scene in the lifeboat. And as far as the shot with the piles of dead engineers go, we are yet to hypothesize a "non-xeno/deacon/predator" theory. The story will no doubt take us deeper into the world of the engineers, but I doubt that we've seen the last of the deacon or xeno. But I admit, a predator would be a stretch, however not ENTIRELY unlikely. You probably have read that Scott might be taking a backseat to this one. Still love y'all and your comments, so please continue to do what you do best :)

@Voidhawk i qoute him in regards to our beloved ALIEN sequels....(leaving Ressurection out...ha..)...: "...and I would prefer Cloverfield than those, for it at least had some intriguing imaging)".......Void....come on...ummmm do u know that ALIENS directed by James Cameron set a waaayyyy new film and vidoe standard....think about...how many movies since ALIENS came out that has a crew of ppl all getting wiped out ono by one by something..or someone....right plenty....HALO and other video games that make milloins of dollars are direct results from ALIENS...period...research it......bad ass space marines getting picked off by these bad ass creatures.....people to this day still love movies like that without knowing about ALIENS...dude read reviews about when ALIENS came out....and then read reviews about crappy wasnt worth $10 movie Cloverfield....i remember how disappointed people were...and me...regardless of the way it was "shot" Mayb ALIEN 3 and Ressurection i can see u having conflicts with...but ALIENS to a lot of us did not at all disrepect the first one....just raised a question like "hey....what MAY happen if....." thats all that did....my girlfriend ddnt know shit about ALIEN movies...i had her watch ALIENS first....then ALIEN....then Cloverfield...she likes ALIENS the best...lol...and still watches it without me....i even like both versions of ALIEN 3....since Xenos take on qualities of its host the dog made since.....the bull ddnt but o well....but still i mean were would Halo...and DEAD SPACE and Space movies...and Predator be since Predator was actually writtien waaaayyyyyy after ALIEN and ALIENS.....if it wasnt for the ALIEN sequels...no love lost tho...

I agree with every word you wrote @AvPHunter. I myself would accept a Alien/Predator tie in, if it was done the right way. I will have to disagree with you @iPlatinumSouledi about the possibility of the Xenos being created by the Predator race. My reason for saying that is, from what we have already seen the Engineers seem to be a race that deals with the tampering and the creation of different lifeforms, and also the teraforming of barren planets. They may be a violent race also. From what we say from the Engineer in Prometheous it seems that he at least as an individual being was very aggresive. But it does not mean that his species as a whole is violent. But the Predator race is ultra violent. There have been quiet a few film that have featured the Predators already. Violence seems to be part of there culture. The hunting down of other lifeforms, including there own (we saw how they dealt with there own kind in Predators) is also part of there culture. The kill seems to be what life is all about. In saying that, I to this day have not seen any of there race as beings who create. We have only seen them as warriors. So I do not agree with you on that opinion. I view them as a destructive race. At least that is what I have seen from them so far. In saying all of this I would like to state that this type of constructive discussion is fun. Even though we do not agree with each others opinions as a whole. It is a good thing that we can come on to this web site and talk about a franchise that we all like.

Good exchanging of ideas is always fun. About the movie ALIENS...and I am talking here about only the qualities of that movie alone ( NOT tying it with the really original and interesting ALIEN concept) was a really wel done movie. Critics back then even stated that the movie was a sequel deemed successful because it has a quality dirction, a well developed effects team, and had a real good pace in action. Those qualities I will never deny, as I even bought the ALIENS Uncut version to watch... And that is as far as I will go... ALIENS (and only that movie forth) introduced this (for me bullshit) xenomorph adaptability. Only that movie forth showed the (another bulshit) concept of that thing adapting to its host as to change itself. From then on this Marvel like mutating concept was introduced. In ALIEN it was only said that the creature could use any biological being as a HOST to its LARVAE phase, which is sound and well thought as a bioweapon design (I stated he reason in another thread so I will not repeat it al here) and there is nothing from this All Altering Magic Juice, which has, sadly, taken place as to be put back in track on Prometheus, when they had the chance to bring it back to what it was originaly, and a really more interesting concept it was. The utility for that as a weapon is that it would NOT change into anything but keep its characteritic and fenotype, because THAT was a killer design. Change, CHANGE AND CHANGE, and you may end up with something useless and unmanageable. Poor, even stupid design, for a bioweapon. Now make it able to use any large biomass (yeah, large. Jonesy was left untouched in many scenes...enough to show us that the creature was after the crew, as any well designed bioweapon would do - going after potentially dangerous targets, and use their mass to replicate itself as designed/programmed) so ignoring small biomasses/not deemed as dangerous at first analysis was also proof of a very well designed weapon (product of a really advanced culture in a possible great conflict making it necessary to create such a weapon. That was part of the tale of the original ALIEN, and called my attention back then as a so well designed science fiction plot. ALIENS and all its sequels brought comics reasoning and, if analysed, useless elements to something that could have been (and already was) a great concept. I know many here seems to love this All altering DNA ideas, and the xenos, and whatever, but if you think a bit about all this concept entails, there are many, many things that do not hold together... I need to state that I am a Science Fiction fan, and writer in working, and I look for good science fiction in any movie that tries to insert itself into this genre, and I think it is really sad that the science fiction movies are being made by directors that even say they are doing so (Ridley said something purporting this, I recall) and this brings forth only action oriented, contraditory movies. Then do not do science fiction...make fantasy or heroes movies. I was really entertained by The Avengers. You have biotech, you have aliens, and you have tons of nonsense going forth, but it was ot science fiction, and nothing to provoke our minds, but just fantasy/action and that is that! LotR is epic and even stuff for thinking but fantasy is fantasy. Now science fiction when well made is so, so entertaining and mind provoking, but there are times directors should think less market and more integrity to a concept and content. Well, tha is my opinon anyway, as a fan of science fction and a fan of ALIEN (Sequels Off) As for Predators, it is another well developed concept that was sucked to a dying franchise for money reasons only...trying to revitalyse a dying titles (Aliens) and ending up being sucked by its dwon momentum. They saw that and are now revitalyzing the titles (quite successfully I think) and the sequels to that are coming, and they alaredy stated that these sequels are conected to the FIRST movie and FORGET all the rest, which was a daring and refreshing position! Some have the necessary nerve to make something right. On that note I will follow these new Predators movies avidly. About Predator's culture, hard as it might be for me to say, but the Alien Vs Predator original comics and books were well developed and executed, and we see there they are not mindless killers. They are a warrior race with cruel rite of passages and cruel sports, but they have a culture with we can communicate and even understand, and in reality they had a good control over the bugs as well, although not perfect, as to be able to use them. They disconect its plot with ALIEN for there only Queens can lay eggs, and that was the key to use them. They respected courage and strenght, as to even accept humans among their ranks IF they prove themselves, so yeah, it was a well developed idea, with good comics and books into the series, but with horrid, terrible movies which killed te whole concept. For everthing there are fans and even space. Create parallel stories and such, but then we fans of ALIEN original concept also should have the right to expect sequels coherent and following what thrilled and charmed us in the original, instead of taking sequels with ideas and concepts so far from the originality and provoking ideas as the original had. And do not mistake themselves, this All Altering DNA stuff (a biological Philosopher's Stone) is not original nor a good science fiction idea, but comes from hero comics and action oriented stuff. Can be enterttaining, but it is not original, nor mind provoking, nor good science fiction Want to se how something like this comes good and works? Then read Iain M Banks Culture novels...that is original and with concepts way more thought over than this stuff that Cameron created and that so entered, sadly, the sequels from Alien...

Right!

And what about Vickers? She s not human. She s not dead either. She has superhuman strength. And she s not a robot. Janek can confirm. She s organic, a replicant. Remember those? Maybe even the military type. A quite decent alternative to a Terminator. Just dont bring Batman and Robin into the story. That would ruin it for me...

Edward, you are my first and last troll encounter.