are the xenomorphs god or satan

"The Xenomorph do not have a technological civilization and are predatory creatures with no higher goals than the propagation of their species and the destruction of lifeforms that could pose a threat to them. Like wasps or termites, Aliens are eusocial, with a single fertile queen breeding a caste of warriors." The Xenomorphs are neither good nor evil, all they care about is survival and expansion!

"The principal theory of their connection between the Engineers and Xenomorphs, which was mentioned briefly by Ridley Scott in his director's commentary for the first Alien DVD, is that the Engineer's Ship in Alien was a "bomber" and that they used them as biogenic weapons to fight an ancient war against an unknown foe. There is some evidence to support this, such as the Xenomorph's biomechanical nature. Xenomorph Eggs were believed to be used as "bombs" on an enemy planet and then the Xenomorphs would proceed to kill the entire population as they spawned."

If you need a religious connection, i think that you can say … that they are like the flood that cleanses the world from every life form except the Xenomorph!

This is a Question that is too Ambigious to Answer in detail... in a nutshell Answering the Question Direct.. God or Satan then its neither...

But then we look at your question in detail as far as the Intention of the Organism... and Engineers use for it.... well again if we are talking Alien 1979 then as DestoroyahX put it the Organism seems to work for one reason, that depends on which cut of the movie you watch.... Alien it was to seek out and destroy Life it was a destroyer a beast these Cargo of Eggs seemed to carry a Organism that would just infect those who came into contact with it to produce a Killing Machine... if said Killing Machine had a limited Life Span, be that days, weeks, or years... it would make a very useful and efficient Bio Weapon.

The answer would have been as such, and Ridley did say they was a Bio Weapon Cargo and the Derelict was a Bio Weapon carrying Cargo Ship and that the Weapon was used to clean up WORLDS!

However Alien DC showed more to this as the Organism seemed to have a purpose to Procreate itself which fitted with the Idea from Star Beast and the Aien Draft based off it. (Star Beast had a explanation for the Organism but we wont apply it to Alien as i am not sure its valid, but it could be we shall have to wait and see if such Element is explored in Prometheus 2).

So now we look at this Organism that can now Procreate... this makes for a more deadly Bio Weapon... but one whos purpose is now not Efficient unless again the Organism has a limited Life Span and if its dropped on a Colony that has say 2500 Life Forms, if we say 100 are killed at first then 100 turned into Eggs to then spring forth more... if we then get to the point that the last surving 500 comes down to us having 100 unhatched Eggs, and the 500 left colonists we see 300 killed and 200 turned into Eggs and then they are all gone!

We have 300 Eggs that was never hatched, if the Xenos then die off after a certain time then yes the Eggs could be re-used this is a theory that some have had regarding the Xeno and its purpose and one that could be Valid..... it does make a risky one as then if they intend (Engineers) to then collect those Eggs in order to begin the Process again on another World, it is a very risky one... or even if they also intend to then colonise the Colony after they have wiped out the Original Collonists... having these Eggs is a risk to the Engineers.

So it does not make the best Weapon by any means... not if it was designed for that purpose..... but then it could be a Organism that they found that they then could find a use for it as a Bio Weapon, pretty much how the Company was looking to do in the Franchise.... in Star Beast our Giant Race of Engineers (well the Giant dead Skeletal remains the Human Crew found on the Derelict) they simply fell foul to a Organism as the Human crew who landed their did.

If the Organism was as above something came across and not created that would be a good explanation and also be good explanation for the potential re-weaponizing and experimenting on such a Organism to create a improvement that is safer to use and store and then maybe reclaim...

But we cant be 100% sure yet what that connection is... maybe we shall find out? Maybe not!

Aliens this through a curveball out there as far as the Topic i discused because now we have a Organism that can vastly Procreate more than the Egg Morph Scene, which could yield much more Eggs after a clean up of a World but at the cost of a lot more Risk!

We also have to ask about the Life Span of these Organisms as i did above and wonder.... if the Xeno has a short life span... does the Queen?  Termites can live for 1-2 years but the Queen can live for 25X longer. This is vastly different with Ants... a Ant can live for 40-60 days usually and if our Xenos had similar lifespans but acted as in Alien DC then they would make a useful Weapon.... But Aliens gave us a Queen and a Ant Queen can live for 20-30 years  Thus 180X longer than a Ant...

If a Xeno Queen can live for 180X longer than a Xeno then it makes the Bio Weapon a more risky prospect unless they have no care for the World they attack or if they plan to visit it after clean up some few hundred or thousands of years latter.

As for the purpose of the Xeno and Connection... this is something that has many possible answers...

Here are some ideas people considered...

1) Xenos are actually Gods, they create the Engineer... i dont seem to buy this at all, i see nothing to show the Xeno even in Alien is vastly more superior to the Engineers and Ridley refered to them as a Weapon that the Engineers  (Space Jockey) use....  and Spaight draft that Ridley liked and had worked on with Spaights sugested the Engineers created these Organisms and indeed many kinds.... but another theory could had occured.. see next!

2) The Xenos are a Bio Weapon created by the Engineers to clean up Worlds...   This seems to be very plausible.... and indeed as stated above is what Spaights draft futher gave evidence too, with regards to creation of such and many similar Organisms.  But this could also hold another theory as next!

3) The Xeno was something the Engineers came across that they then used as Bio Weapons and then experimented on to create variations... This is the theory that i had and shared with some.. Just as the Company intended and thus the Space Jockeys came across some Organism as they did in Star Beast....  could this be the case?  We dont know.. But their could be a varient of this idea.

4) The Xeno was a punishment for Weyward Engineers sent to them by who ever is above them in the Hierarchy, for sins of Rebelion or some other deed... This is another idea that i favour  and refers to Prometheus Myth The Titan who Stole Fire from the Gods and was tied to a Rock to have his Stomach eaten by a Eagle over and over...

The Prometheus movie Fresco could be interpreted as such... its Ambigious and it looks like the Adam and God Fresco in the Sistine Chapel... we see a Organism in a position that is submisive or is it Fetal... i.e newly Born or Created.  And the Engineer does look like he is pushing away from this Organism and his Face seems uncomfortable and we could interpret some part of it has having a Wound a Cut that is similar to Shaws C-Section.... does this show this Organism was Birthed from the Engineer... maybe.

But in context with the Prometheus Myth could it also show us that the Organism is the Eagle that is sent to Punish Prometheus...  How does this work, surely the Engineer can regenerate his wound every day!

Think of the God in the Bible as ONE GOD, when a verse actually in Genisis may sugest otherwise.... " “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" OUR as in more than One....

Why cant Prometheus by more than ONE TITAN? but a Faction who had done something against the other Gods (or higher hierarchy) wishes and thus a Eagle (Eagles) was sent down to Punish them!

This could work for the Organism in the Fresco.. it has a kind of Bird Beak... but maybe the Engineers did not all die from this and they then re-engineered this Organism to create a new Weapon to unleash on Mankind or and their fellow Engineers or Hierarchy

Again we just dont know.... 3) and 4) to me seem somewhat more the case of what i think is going on! 

But there are a few things that could go against them... for 4) if these Organisms even the one in the Fresco i.e Xenos was a offshoot...  and came from the Hierarchy on Paradise then surely who ever David and Shaw find on Paradise would know what is comming there way and how would David and Shaw get to land on Paradise.... surely these Gods would not allow this Organism to get no where near them...

This would have to assume two things.. First the Derelicts  are familiar to them and  their purpose those in the Hierarchy on Paradise have seen before... i,e they know those ships carry a Weapon that is used as Punishment and Death... more so if who ever is on Paradise also knows what LV 223 outpost was set up for some 2000+ years ago i.e to destroy Earth.

Second  that what if those on Paradise have suffered in some kind of War and are all but wiped out!

Exporing 3)  from above!  i had another theory that fitted in with "sometimes to create one must first destroy" and the Mural.

If the Engineers on LV 223 or a Faction came across some Organism be they found it, or it was sent to punish them.... and they then saw the Results of a Infection with these Organisms...

What if these Engineers who are seeking out Perfection which is why they Seed their own DNA and why they visted us and upgraded us and taught us stuff.... what if they had got infected by the Xeno or a Organism related to it and produced a Organism related to the Deacon...

A rogue faction of Engineers could have seen this Organism as being Perfect, it gave birth to something that was Part Engineer and Part something else and either Produced the Deacon in the Mural... of something else that these Engineers then in the seeking of Perfections experimented on and Sacrificed their own untill the Creature in the Mural was the Result.. PERFECTION!

They then saw this Organism (Mural Deacon) as being a more Perfect DNA than the Engineers and thus this was now the Perfect DNA to Seed Worlds and they then using same method as the Sacrifical Scene, they broken down and Seeded these Deacons DNA and stored them in the Urns to then upgrade us to this new Favoured DNA Strain!

That is another long time theory that i had as far as the Mural and Goo Connection! and with Davids comments about to create you have to destroy

We cant be sure... but they could futher offer us another sinister purpose and this could be that our Engineers play a part in some Sinister Agenda and are merely Sacrificial Vessels to seed DNA and then also be used to experiment upon and be hosts to some other Organism favoured by the Gods! 

A faction may have Rebelled and stole Technology to create Mankind to worship them as they wanted to be GODS, or indeed create Mankind so that we would furfill the purpose to be used as Xeno hosts....

kind of like how the Rebellion of Igigi against their Anunnaki Gods to mine for Gold, lead to Mankind being created to perform that task... if we replace Minning for Gold with being Hosts and Seeds for the Gods experiments maybe this could make sense!

Another theory i have and something that maybe could be what we shall see in Prometheus 2!

hey guys awesome responses  so thank you... i guess my reasoning is centered around the aura of ambiguity which surrounds the xenomorph.  i think that this all began with just thinking about the word 'alien' itself - essentially a creation of opposition between the familiar and unfamiliar, yet these two oppositional terms seem to be linked... i guess i'm just saying that the familiar is always destined to become the familiar and vice versa. also, re  destroyah x's comment. yes, neither good nor evil - but their sheer determination to dominate and endure is well, singular. i guess i'm thinking of the word 'universe' or uni-verse. a single verse or logos, the singular instinct to survive as being the essence of the universe, placing the xenomorph on a godly pedestal within it, not from a perspective of intellect, but perhaps from the perspective that they are an entity with a particular meaning with regards to the will of god in creating the universe, if you believe in that

Aliens: Earth Hive: "A third group enters the fray, a religious cult that worships the alien xenomorph, and whose members believe that implantation by a facehugger alien is something akin to joining with God."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens:_Earth_Hive

I do not believe that the xenomorophs in the form that we have encountered thus far to be 'good' or 'bad' but i do believe there is a possible chain of events underway within the ridley scott universe whereby the xenomorphs will be crucial to humanity attaining immortality - or the fire from the gods. And to add to this, i think the role of weyland yutani in the saga will mirror that of maybe ozymandias from the watchmen comic by alan moore.

what do you think?

also on top of that the question regarding the what-ness of the xenomorph's vision, their ability to induce hallucinatory, mystical visions in non-xenomorph beings like in alien 3. the elongated skull... i really think there is something else going on with the xenos that hints at a kind of universal existential totality, or at least, a possible one. i don't think they're just bugs and i don't think that the nature and maybe even purpose of their singular instincts is that easy to pin down.

one more thing, unrelated, but has anyone ever asked scott what he meant when he said this?:

"The alien's real which is why it's probably one of the scariest monsters in film history."

http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/13689

Might wanna have a look at this.

"The alien's real "?? 
Don't know what to 
Make of that,He also said at one stageThat the alien is a survivorFrom mars ?? 
What the hell does
That mean ??

i really don't know oduodu. ridley scott says certain things sometimes which i struggle to make sense of.  thanks for the link to the cthulhu/lovecraft prometheus thread by the way, cool stuff!

The DEACON/xenomorph is suppose to be a devil like figure. It has been suspected that the creature is like Cronus in that it devours other civililizations in order to ensure 100% survival. this explains the hole xenomorph being the perfect survivor, uncloadwd by remorse. Now who is a god and why do sone engineers worship her is a mystery that will soon be revealed.

Her meaning the Deacon, not God.

@oduodu.

Nice link not sure i have commented on that before but i have similar about same Topic and yes there are many links to a degree with the Moutains of Madness and HP lovecraft.

The Shoggoths could be connected with the Xeno but they could just as easy be the Engineers but then we have the Ubbo-Sathla which could also be the Xeno or Engineers too by Xeno i mean Xeno DNA Ancestor. But the Ubbo-Sathla fits more with the Black Goo!

But i will save discusions abot this for that Topic..... in fact ill post this to it and then i would comment futher on that Topic some other time.

"The alien's real which is why it's probably one of the scariest monsters in film history."

The Alien is not real, its a made up Organism... but Rildey meant that prehapse the Organism could be real i,e something like it could exist in a way, he has refered to many things on Earth that are Strange and that have Strange ways to reproduce including things the futher down you go into Deep Sea.

He also did bring up about when you think about Life, when you go down and down smaller to the scale of Insect World or even smaller for example Bacterial and Micro-Organism level then things get pretty Nasty... Pretty Sureal.... so i think he means the Xeno Mimics things that are actually happening on Earth be that at the Small Insect Level (Parasitic Wasps, Worms etc) or other Parasite Micro-Organisms etc and thats why its kind of real..

Thats kind of what he meant ;)

first_child can you expand on the deacon/cronus parallel thing?

oduodu, big_dave,first_child, destroyah, do you perhaps think that the xenomorph in the coming films will take on a role as pawn in a battle for cosmic supremacy between humans and the engineers?

yeah big_dave i thought he might have meant in those terms, but i mean, why would he not just say that the idea of the xenomorph is rooted in real natural phenomena instead of just saying it's real?

@The First Child

Yes it could be a case of it seen in that light or as a Punisher, Death and Destroyer...

There is some Ritual at very least significance  of the Xeno in Franchise, especially Prometheus but we can not be 100% sure in what way.... it does not have to be God, but then some people on Earth dont worship God, they worship other things and not only the Devil which is related to God or Gods, but some Worship Light and Mother Nature...

But it could be different to that kind of Worship, it could be Worshiped for similar reasons as some culture hold some things as SACRED some are actually not real things such as Dragons (China and Japan) also the Phoenix.  But sometimes its a real animal for example The Cow (India).

Or it could be held Sacred for its purpose and its power and for how it can cause Death like some cultures worship Volcanoes or Deadly Animals like The Snake

But to be 100% sure we would have to see what Paradise brings.

@THANATOS_CONTAGION

He can be very Cryptic and ambigious with comments, he has done so with a few thnigs and especially within the context of the Alien/Prometheus Franchise.

Deacon/Cronus parallel who knows, the movie is so ambigious that we just cant rule anything out at the moment.....

Ridley is kind of hinting the Xeno was a Weapon/Organism to clean up Worlds, seems our Engineers for how old and advanced have a pretty Strange and not so efficient way to clean up a world and then seed it.... as the Sacrifical Scene hints at the start of Evolution (Basic Life started to Evolve) or the start of the basic building blocks of life, either way we are talking a Billion Years lets say before it bares Fruits in their likeness i.e Mankind and would have required many visits to futher Evolve us.... seems a odd and long winded process compared to Clone and Experient on themselves.

And to clean up a World with such Bio-Weapons  and especially the Black Goo could lead to having to wait thousands of years before the Weeding of the Garden and Uprooting as finished and Planting seeds can begin..

But these Engineers could be very Ancient beings where such spans in Time is not so long to them or their Agenda.. we dont know for sure...

I however suspect the Xeno is a Organism they came across or its Ancestor or something sent as Punishment to the Engineers that a Faction or all the Engineers then saw the result of the First Chest Busted Engineer and they was in awe of such a event, maybe they cant reproduce by any means at all and so to see one of them bare a Child and the result being a Organism that is Perfect...

I think they or a faction then carried out experiments on these Organisms untill they produce the Perfect Result the Deacon in the Mural...  and it was this that they saw has having the more PERFECT DNA  than their own and so its the Deacons DNA they started to favour as the Seeding Soup....  hense they was broken down like the Engineer at the start of the movie and the results stored in those Urns.

But we could well have many more Temples and Each one contains a slight different version of Xeno related Organism (as Spaights draft had 8 types) and the Mural is just to showcase a Hey this is what is contained within this Temple... as a Monument to it.

And so other Temples could contain Murals that show slightly different Organisms.

great post bigdave. i want to focus on one particular part which is this:

"I however suspect the Xeno is a Organism they came across or its Ancestor or something sent as Punishment to the Engineers that a Faction or all the Engineers then saw the result of the First Chest Busted Engineer and they was in awe of such a event, maybe they cant reproduce by any means at all and so to see one of them bare a Child and the result being a Organism that is Perfect..."

i most definitely agree with this statement, but what i think, is that if you replace xenomorph with human it gets interesting. for example:

"I however suspect the human is a Organism they came across or its Successor or something sent as testing to the Engineers that a Faction or all the Engineers then saw the result of the First Chest Busted Engineer and they was in awe of such a event, maybe they cant reproduce by any means at all and so to see one of them bare a Child and the result being a Organism that is imperfect..."

also, the head in the mural room. it has to be satan, and the engineers on lv have to be the rebelling angels or something like that. 

also, i really don't think the engineers are particularly bright...they are advanced yes, but it seems to me that their attitude towards life and their creations is pretty atrocious. like this pic. of one of the murals. i'm assuming it's an engineer with one of their creations. it's a pretty sad image, don't you think?

THANATOS_CONTAGION - What a very compelling topic! Hmm, I have never actually looked at the Alien as an incarnation of a divine being. Rather, I feel that the organism is the result of a creature we would likely have seen as divine, an ancient and long-dead race that has left nothing of its existence amongst the stars - except for the Alien. That marks the creature as "the perfect survivor"; it has (in my view) outlived the very force that gave rise to it! In any event, I find this train of thought to be most enjoyable! Thank you ever so much for sharing these views with the rest of us! :)

hey something real, thanks for the kind words :) i guess the way i look at it, there are two entities the engineers didn't create: humans and xenomorphs. i don't know if the xenomorph is a divine being in terms of being worthy of worship or even the incarnation of one....i think that's how the engineers see it and i don't think they're right, but i think i do view it as a creation with a particular purpose to serve,which is also quite mysterious...i also think they might have a privileged link to the creator of the universe, on a par with the engineers. i would also like to add that even if it turns out in the prometheus sequel that the engineers DID create human life, i don't think that makes them God. God doesn't only create life, he also creates the entire universe whereby the possibility of creating life arises, and it would be important to remember that.

THANATOS_CONTAGION - I understand and respect your viewpoints. Indeed; the ultimate entity/entities responsible for the creation of the creation of what we call the Universe most certainly outstrips the engineers to a phenominal degree. The ability to create and manipulate life is without a doubt incredibly powerful; However, the ability to manipulate the very basic matter that composes the whole of reality is a different story all together! I have a feeling we will never be introduced to the true being(s)that gave rise to all things. Even so, it is very fun to speculate on what he/she/it/they might be! :)

Yes and this is the brilliant part to it all Ridley has talked about multiple levels...pretty sure it's meant that the engineers created us and something created them and possibly there's many many more levels all the way up to the creator of the universe and maybe even that is not the top! He's also talked about the demi God being some nasty type thing. My bet is the black goo is from it but we will see...get a feeling it will be a being that can travel through space with out a ship possibly through worm holes is maybe even an entire empire of beings in one single form. Possibly like looking at an alien xeno on lsd really crazy type thing.

hey djamela awesome comment. this is why i love ridley scott and prometheus so much. he and the direction that prometheus has sent the alien saga into is truly VISIONARY! i can't find the video now, but i remember watching a NASA short on how the universe will eventually freeze and be unable to support life. iobviously we know that the xenomorph is a being that can survive the harshest conditions imaginable, os my guess the xenomorph is essentially a contingent lifeform which has a role with exactly this scenario in mind, and i think that the mistake the  engineers are making is the matter in which they are trying to apply it,probably due to arrogance and stubborness in believing that they are the ones whp truly control the universe, that they are God, when they are evidently not.I also found your comment regarding the nature of the nasty demigod very interesting, and it reminded me alot of an entity called the FORM DESTROYER which appears in the equally visionary and brilliant Philip K Dick book called A MAZE OF DEATH, which i would wholeheartedly reccoment fans of the alien/prometheus saga to read if they haven't done so already.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Maze_of_Death

This is the great thing about the Franchise and the Engineers Concept we was given by Spaights and Ridley...  and also the Xenos role in the Universe which just cant be 100% on what really is all the connections as its very open and ambigious that anything can go pretty much.

I do sense we are being led down a path of Creation, Rebellion, Creator wanting Creation punished but ultimately ending up the ones punished...

We see a Hierarchy in the movie.....  or so its hinted....

Engineers Create Mankind... Mankind Rebels against Engineers

Mankind creates Androids and we see seeds of Rebellion in David.

It could now be hinted at something above the Engineers in the chain of Hierarchy and can we really rule out that some kind of Rebellion by the Engineers against their creators had occuried?

Hopefully these things can be explored and answered in Prometheus 2 and we kind of find out what role the Xeno plays.. i.e is it mearly a Experiment and Bio Weapon, or something they came across or does it hold another more important role or indeed used to do so in the long distant past?

big_dave and everyone else i am happy i found this forum and i love your passion for this saga. all these conversations are very stimulating. big_dave like i said i think the xenomorphs are contingent. put it this way, if the universe is a locked system, and the xenomorphs were not created by God, then they are surely a universal contingency - that is to say that like destroyah said, they are neither good nor bad, but are indeed a chance occurance. also i reread a couple of your other posts in this thread and you said this which is fascinating:

"Think of the God in the Bible as ONE GOD, when a verse actually in Genisis may sugest otherwise.... " “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" OUR as in more than One...."

this is a spot on observation and the way i interpret it as is this:

1.assuming the engineers created mankind

2.the humans do not look like engineers

3.human dna is not identical to engineer dna

4. the engineers tried to create humans in their image

5. humans did not come out in the image of the engineers, but rather in the image of God.

what do you think?

also, what if the engineers don't even know that someone who also created the universe, created them, what if they are unaware of the existence of one God that created the universe, but view it in a completely different way, and that's why they got annoyed at the monotheism of humans?

I can kind of see your point... such as in the Bible... God is at the top of the Hierarchy his creations are the Angels and at some point his favoured and highest ranking Angel (Lucifer)  saw that he was Equal or better than God and why should the Angels worship and serve God what makes God have the right to Force his Laws and Rule on them.

We see David kind of showing seeds or rebelion against his creators as Lucifer did.

Lucifer lead a Rebellion against God but ultimatelty lost and was cast out..... with a 3rd of the Angels.... God then creates Mankind, and God decrees that Mankind is his favoured creation and the Angels should treat Mankind as Such... But Satan refuses to do so and is depicted as being jellious of Mankind and wanted to see our destruction via tempting us away from God.

So i guess in context with Prometheus what i am saying is maybe your point could be that Mankind was the more perfect creation that the Engineers must serve but the Engineers or a Faction of them chose not to and indeed set out to destroy us?