are the xenomorphs god or satan

also, i really don't think the engineers are particularly bright...they are advanced yes, but it seems to me that their attitude towards life and their creations is pretty atrocious. like this pic. of one of the murals. i'm assuming it's an engineer with one of their creations. it's a pretty sad image, don't you think?

THANATOS_CONTAGION - What a very compelling topic! Hmm, I have never actually looked at the Alien as an incarnation of a divine being. Rather, I feel that the organism is the result of a creature we would likely have seen as divine, an ancient and long-dead race that has left nothing of its existence amongst the stars - except for the Alien. That marks the creature as "the perfect survivor"; it has (in my view) outlived the very force that gave rise to it! In any event, I find this train of thought to be most enjoyable! Thank you ever so much for sharing these views with the rest of us! :)

hey something real, thanks for the kind words :) i guess the way i look at it, there are two entities the engineers didn't create: humans and xenomorphs. i don't know if the xenomorph is a divine being in terms of being worthy of worship or even the incarnation of one....i think that's how the engineers see it and i don't think they're right, but i think i do view it as a creation with a particular purpose to serve,which is also quite mysterious...i also think they might have a privileged link to the creator of the universe, on a par with the engineers. i would also like to add that even if it turns out in the prometheus sequel that the engineers DID create human life, i don't think that makes them God. God doesn't only create life, he also creates the entire universe whereby the possibility of creating life arises, and it would be important to remember that.

THANATOS_CONTAGION - I understand and respect your viewpoints. Indeed; the ultimate entity/entities responsible for the creation of the creation of what we call the Universe most certainly outstrips the engineers to a phenominal degree. The ability to create and manipulate life is without a doubt incredibly powerful; However, the ability to manipulate the very basic matter that composes the whole of reality is a different story all together! I have a feeling we will never be introduced to the true being(s)that gave rise to all things. Even so, it is very fun to speculate on what he/she/it/they might be! :)

Yes and this is the brilliant part to it all Ridley has talked about multiple levels...pretty sure it's meant that the engineers created us and something created them and possibly there's many many more levels all the way up to the creator of the universe and maybe even that is not the top! He's also talked about the demi God being some nasty type thing. My bet is the black goo is from it but we will see...get a feeling it will be a being that can travel through space with out a ship possibly through worm holes is maybe even an entire empire of beings in one single form. Possibly like looking at an alien xeno on lsd really crazy type thing.

hey djamela awesome comment. this is why i love ridley scott and prometheus so much. he and the direction that prometheus has sent the alien saga into is truly VISIONARY! i can't find the video now, but i remember watching a NASA short on how the universe will eventually freeze and be unable to support life. iobviously we know that the xenomorph is a being that can survive the harshest conditions imaginable, os my guess the xenomorph is essentially a contingent lifeform which has a role with exactly this scenario in mind, and i think that the mistake the  engineers are making is the matter in which they are trying to apply it,probably due to arrogance and stubborness in believing that they are the ones whp truly control the universe, that they are God, when they are evidently not.I also found your comment regarding the nature of the nasty demigod very interesting, and it reminded me alot of an entity called the FORM DESTROYER which appears in the equally visionary and brilliant Philip K Dick book called A MAZE OF DEATH, which i would wholeheartedly reccoment fans of the alien/prometheus saga to read if they haven't done so already.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Maze_of_Death

This is the great thing about the Franchise and the Engineers Concept we was given by Spaights and Ridley...  and also the Xenos role in the Universe which just cant be 100% on what really is all the connections as its very open and ambigious that anything can go pretty much.

I do sense we are being led down a path of Creation, Rebellion, Creator wanting Creation punished but ultimately ending up the ones punished...

We see a Hierarchy in the movie.....  or so its hinted....

Engineers Create Mankind... Mankind Rebels against Engineers

Mankind creates Androids and we see seeds of Rebellion in David.

It could now be hinted at something above the Engineers in the chain of Hierarchy and can we really rule out that some kind of Rebellion by the Engineers against their creators had occuried?

Hopefully these things can be explored and answered in Prometheus 2 and we kind of find out what role the Xeno plays.. i.e is it mearly a Experiment and Bio Weapon, or something they came across or does it hold another more important role or indeed used to do so in the long distant past?

big_dave and everyone else i am happy i found this forum and i love your passion for this saga. all these conversations are very stimulating. big_dave like i said i think the xenomorphs are contingent. put it this way, if the universe is a locked system, and the xenomorphs were not created by God, then they are surely a universal contingency - that is to say that like destroyah said, they are neither good nor bad, but are indeed a chance occurance. also i reread a couple of your other posts in this thread and you said this which is fascinating:

"Think of the God in the Bible as ONE GOD, when a verse actually in Genisis may sugest otherwise.... " “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" OUR as in more than One...."

this is a spot on observation and the way i interpret it as is this:

1.assuming the engineers created mankind

2.the humans do not look like engineers

3.human dna is not identical to engineer dna

4. the engineers tried to create humans in their image

5. humans did not come out in the image of the engineers, but rather in the image of God.

what do you think?

also, what if the engineers don't even know that someone who also created the universe, created them, what if they are unaware of the existence of one God that created the universe, but view it in a completely different way, and that's why they got annoyed at the monotheism of humans?

I can kind of see your point... such as in the Bible... God is at the top of the Hierarchy his creations are the Angels and at some point his favoured and highest ranking Angel (Lucifer)  saw that he was Equal or better than God and why should the Angels worship and serve God what makes God have the right to Force his Laws and Rule on them.

We see David kind of showing seeds or rebelion against his creators as Lucifer did.

Lucifer lead a Rebellion against God but ultimatelty lost and was cast out..... with a 3rd of the Angels.... God then creates Mankind, and God decrees that Mankind is his favoured creation and the Angels should treat Mankind as Such... But Satan refuses to do so and is depicted as being jellious of Mankind and wanted to see our destruction via tempting us away from God.

So i guess in context with Prometheus what i am saying is maybe your point could be that Mankind was the more perfect creation that the Engineers must serve but the Engineers or a Faction of them chose not to and indeed set out to destroy us?

I however am not sure thats what we shall see, Ridley said that the Engineers seed their DNA in that fashion on worlds not just Earth....  The Engineers are thus a Tool for creation..  The movie shows they must have visited us over and over and potentially upgraded us over and over i.e from Early Forms of Life based of Engineer seeded DNA, they came back to futher Genetically mix their DNA with some creations to eventually create Mankind.

How and why and what role we play, is pretty open to be honest.... i do think Ridley could be going the route of showing us a chain of Creation Hierarchy and Rebelion... also he seems to have left Clues to sugest that the True Agenda of the Engineers and mainly there creators is something that is actually sinister and not like the Traditional Relationship between God/Gods and his Creation as many Cultures have shown this connection to be... but something different...

I am still kind of buying into a maybe Annunaki Connection, and that the Engineers are the Igigi/Igigu within this connection.... The Igigi where servants of the Gods, they was lesser Gods who was tasked with a purpose that was of great importance to the Gods Agenda...

These Igigi or a faction had rebelled against their creators petty much like how Satan did against God.... and so the Gods (Annunaki) created Mankind to overtake and perform the role that the Igigi once had....

What if this role is related to the Xeno and Sacrifice?  Who knows...

Hopefully Prometheus 2 would cover losely some kind of Hierarchy

Yes there will be many more links to the bible im sure also pretty sure following my thoughts that the xenos come from the demi god which is the nasty one or satan I guess in this thread (but possibly not at the same high level as satan has in the bible as such)...yes if only we had phillip k dick writing the script or one of the other greats that is whats missing this time round unlike alien which had a legendary writer. I so hope theres some jaw dropping moments kinda like when the demi god slides out from a worm hole in-front of them on the elder planet – also wanna see a fight as such between the higher level god like beings possibly the elder empire vs this one demi god...it does look like the engineers are supposed to be the angels as such but its not a straight forward as that I guess...its hopefully going to be a massive new world opening up with millions of races soon as they get to the home-world :P ... If fact my hopeful idea was the demi god was mind controlling all the crew of promethues and even the engineer a bit possibly to get david and shaw to come to the home planet were it is locked in an everlasting war with the elder empire thats been going for thousands of years and needs help to tip the balance in its favour :D ... a low human / robot life form/s just intelegent enough to do a job for it and not get noticed by the elders or appear harmless to them...

I am not sure we would be seeing as many Religious links... Ridley said "No more Gods"

The drafts had Bible quotes in them, the movie had subtitle Bible references as far as religious tones throughout the movie...  We also had the Pictograms of the Star Maps found in many Ancient Cultures throughout History.

The idea, the concept the Plot seemed to be that the Bible is based of Mankinds interpretations of visits from a Race of Godlike beings who visited us and taught us stuff and indeed tried to wipe us out,  and that all Religions and Cultures are all based of the same events just interpreted in different ways.... but all seemed to share one common theme that was Giant Godlike beings from space who had plaid a part in the creation and evolution of Mankind but Genetically and Technologically.   And even left Star Map to Zeta 2 system.

The movie was never going the route that the Engineers are the God of the Bible... Ridley mentioned they was Fallen Angels but he is not going the route that they are the Angels of the Bible, he even teased of a Space Jesus but again he is not saying Jesus was a Engineer.... but that the Engineers are who Mankind interpreted and based religions off as Gods/Less Gods i.e Angels and that they sent down maybe a Hybrid Emissary some 2000 years ago to try and steer us on the right path but we Crucified him.

So its basically saying Bible is based off the events of these Engineers as is other religions etc..

So ULTIMATELY  The movie was trying to show us that our Engineers are a race of less Godlike beings who serve a greater race or bieng and our Engineers are thus like Angels or like Olympian Gods, or the Igigi compared to GOD, Titans or Annunaki... but then they could be Titans but i would assume the Titans connection would be a higher race who knows.

But this was kind of the PLOT and that these servent/lower Gods came to Earth to create Mankind and to visit us and upgrade us and teach us stuff untill one time they just stopped comming and one time we just stopped serving them...... Basically like how the Gods are portrayed in many cultures as  a RACE OF GODS/GOD  who created Mankind in their image and looked and watched over us, nurtured us and we worshiped them..

But the above is now something they are tonning down and moving away from.. No More Gods means i think they want to lesser the links of this Engineers and their Creators playing the Part of creating Mankind and Nurture and Teach us stuff and we Worship them as in CONTEXT of Ancient Religons stories about Gods...

But that the ACTUAL TRUTH is something far more Twistes and Sinister!

Yes I meant the subtle links but probably quiet a few of them dont forget we still have a very religious shaw and I think ultimately there will be an over tone of a creator god which of course we will never see but will be there like a god from the bible etc....the engineers may be very religious too they certainly looked like it from what little we saw. I wonder if we might see something like the extinction of the dinosaurs or something too the engineers directing a meteor towards the earth or something like that...kinda get the feeling eventually we might end up with christians not being disproved type sitaution in the end though I hope it could be a bit bolder than that but we will see...(although only in the sense that god may actually still exist but at a higher level not the specifics of jesus and what happend etc.) .  

    One of the most abstract and frightening concepts I have played-out in my head is the theory that the Engineers, Mankind and the Aliens (Xenos) are in fact the very same organism - simply evolved in different ways. Perhaps our genetics are a template; one that has yet to achieve its truest expression. We and all other beings that have arisen from the base template are evolutionary dead-ends - the Engineers are too insular and driven by the continuance of life, the Humans are too unstable, and the Xenos are simply too destructive. What if the combined genetic patterns of all three results in the "purest" expression of universal biology? This is certainly something over which I have boggled for hours! :)

something real, that is exactly the essence of my inquiry into the xenomorph. like the demi-god that djamela spoke of, the xenomorph falls under the categoru of God-but-not-God for me. It is a contingent life form which appeared upon the creation of the universe,like a computer virus, which the engineers found, and assumed to be God.It is a form destroyer. essentially, it is the pawn in the game of chess which takes place between God (abundance of life) and Hades (abundance of death). The engineers in prometheus rebelled against God by taking the side of the demi-god, which is where the humans come in. If humans are able to succesfully use, subvert, understand and dominate the biostructure of the xenomorph, without adhering to its' process of parasitism (chestbursting, death, etc), then they have become immortal and attained supremacy in the universe, and defeated hades, and attained union with God.

THANATOS_CONTAGION - That is an extremely compelling perspective! From your statements, I have devised yet another series of questions: which of the three organisms - Engineer, Human and Xeno - is the closest to the "plan" laid down by the absolute genetic expression of our universe? Which is closest to becoming one with God? What does it take to attain such a union and, if it is attained, what does it mean? I must say, these conversations are extremely engaging! :)

if they're not thirsting for power, then humans...but the reason as to why is an eschatological issue above all else. i'm sure there's plenty of humans ready to side with the engineers and even the xenomorphs. revelations in the bible often gets misinterpreted and derided as nonsense, but i really think masterful execution of the sci fi genre like the alien saga/prometheus or philip k dick's literature is really able to visualise what is being said in that part of the bible.

THANATOS_CONTAGION - Your viewpoints are intriguing and I agree whole-heartedly with your assessment of the Sci-Fi genre. Indeed, the Alien Saga certainly provides a wonderful mechansim through which certain biblical texts can be brought into a realm to which we can more readily relate. Of course, the vague concepts and mystery that form the whole of these films and their stories is paramount; I would not have as much fun with them if everything was laid and neatly explained! :)

Op 

quote

oduodu, big_dave,first_child, destroyah, do you perhaps think that the xenomorph in the coming films will take on a role as pawn in a battle for cosmic supremacy between humans and the engineers?

unquote

Well i think the humans dont stand a chance against against the engineers they are way ahead of us. 

as to them not being bright ? i believe that they are now working with tech that they have never worked with before as they might be a lower faction of engineers that was enslaved by the "super" engineers if you will. i think that they are slaves like we were supposed to be and for some onforseen reason it may be that who ever enslaved them has dissapeared for reasons unknown (maybe war with some one else). 

i agree with the statement but i also think that the black goo may actually be a genetic mutagen prgrammable via sub space frequencies by some unseen intelligence. that the real war is for control over the subspace freqencies that can control the black goo.

the engineers messed with this and got it wrong since i believe that failsafes in the event of a break of those subspace frequencies the goo becomes reprogrammable and thats when the outbreak occurs with an inconceivable amount of species "becoming available" via the goo - hence the diversity of things it was able to give mutations too.

so super engineers mighty actually be able across space and time to tell the goo have certain properties even passwords for protection. but the level of it is quite high so that perhaps david might be able to have some idea of what is going on.

so you dont need high tech just anything that can relay the subspace frequencies from whoever controls it. like a drone or something that just flies into range renders the subsoace frequencies which comes singel point outside time and space. this makes time travel redundant. 

so perhaps the xenos are pawns but they can be just one of many species that can be grown from the goo based on what the owner of the controlling subspace requencies want.