What Weyland-Yutani Know About The Black Goo!

@Michelle yes thats a interesting take on it all

There was always a big Question that would be left once Prometheus came our regarding LV-223 vs LV-426 with LV-223 seeming to have far greater rewards and the Weyland-Yutani wanting to always get its hands on the Xenomorph instead.. and we have to ask why... as in the franchise the Xenomorph had ONE PURPOSE as far as the company and this was Bio-Weapon.

How could then harness the Xeno and what would be to gain?  Is it worth the constant risk/cost?

LV-223 however could give the company the very raw Genetic Material or related Material to the Xeno, as well as clues to a substance that can manipulate and create life.... not to mention Engineer Bio-Tech and Advanced Ships.... never mind Tera forming Advancements.

And these Engineers played a role in our creation, either directly or because of them we was created but there is a Hierarchy above them who pull all the strings and so Paradise may have the main clues if LV-223 is merely a Bio-Weapons Death Lab.

So why the Xeno?

Again maybe we are looking at the wrong reasons.... what if as a thread recently stated... what if Weyland-Yutani is being run by Non-Humans and Advanced Androids who are starting to Evolve and want to overthrow their masters.... if the head of W-Y is a Synthetic or Replicant then the AGENDA changes

If the Xeno was a Weapon to be used either against unruly creations or one that unruly creations used against the creators.

Then if the W-Y Hierarchy is indeed non-human and are essentially rebelling and trying to overthrow mankind then the pursuit of the Xenomorph makes more sense.

However still LV-223 is still a Plot Hole of sorts...

We have pondered, why LV-223 and Engineers and Black Goo was never touched upon in the Alien Franchise...

This is because they never existed at that time... But now they was brought into the Franchise by Prometheus, i think they would have to explain why we never hear nothing about these in Alien Franchise.

Maybe something happens to LV-223 to render it unusable and thats why LV-426 is the only place to obtain the Organism...

Logical would dictate that LV-223 and Paradise have nothing related to gain, despite Bio-Material that leads to Xeno related Organisms.... despite something related to the Xeno being on Paradise..

The pursuit of the Organism via Ripley in Alien 3 and especially Alien Resurrection shows this is the only way to obtain anything left of the Xeno and the Engineers related Bio-Weapon Technlogy.

But both movies could be wiped out of Canon, with Alien 5 which would no doubt touch up on those points above.

The Pursuit of the Xeno thus seems not logical unless we look at the Agenda of those at W-Y being different and solely about Bio-Weapon which would fit if the head of the company is NOT-HUMAN

But this is a assumption and we cant be sure who is pulling the strings at the company...

Yes the Fire and Stone Comics cover LV-223 and LV-426 but they do so in a way that leads to Plot Holes still and also merges Alien and Predator universe...

If this is Canon, then Alien 3 and Alien R make no sense... but a new sequel to Aliens i.e Alien 5 could make Fire and Stone fit in....

But i will lastly come back to the source...  they said that while Fire and Stone is NOT Canon... The events and themes in Fire and Stone are what could potentially happen the comics are Canon as far as what was going on and how the Goo would work. And that some themes from Fire and Stone are to be followed up on in Prometheus 2 ... as of October 2014 off course.

I am speaking to the person who spoke to the source either latter or tomorrow but they spoke to the source Friday and so hopefully i can get some more information.

@BD

I come at this from loving film and within that is science fiction so tie in comics and the like are out side of orbit. I have always understood Sir Ridley to recognise just the first two films.

As for a visit to LV223 isn't this about priorities and cost and wouldn't a globally accepted mission to colonise secure more support than an overt military operation. I would expect this is part of the spin by W-T and their building better worlds and bringing investors on board.

I am taking it as a given at this stage that the Robotics element of W-Y is a big part of the first theme. It fits rather neatly with preoccupations which have only grown since Ridders made A and B.R. He will not want these films to appear old fashioned and the reverse engineering can explore the bio mechanoid element of the Z M with an entirely modern mindset. 

The notion of find our creator was handled in Prom with the right degree of cynicism for todays audience. I suspect the share holders and investors in the Covenant believe some thing very useful is out there but all that God stuff is hooey. W-Y will rely very much on their inside operatives to determine what all this god stuff is all about but more to the point what is the Black Goo that kind of thinking reflects modern life overt focus which misses the bigger picture. If they can subvert any technology they will, but as always the inner corporation of W-Y are motivated by profit, it is probably only the redacted and the like that understand the "real" agenda. That layering pealing a way the layers of the organisation also looks like perfect pre equal material. It doesn't effect outcomes it just makes the context much more powerful.    

I'm getting good vibes from this topic! It's the first time (since coming back to the forum) that I've felt that optimism and excitement that I felt at the time that Prometheus was in post prod. Great topic!

Lone, Michelle and Monster Zero you've made very good points which has got me asking questions.

@Lone; you ask why the Morb and not the goo, which is a very good question and one that I have myself. 

Then, Monster Zero asks, why would W Y need the Alien or the goo when they're obviously more than capable of creating something equally as deadly and/or creative themselves?

Also a very good question and one that I will attempt to answer/theorise about in a moment. 

Then, Michelle - "@ Lone why the Zeno not the goo? The [Black Goo] is a nasty toxic substance and nothing remains on LV 223 to decode how to use it to reach its full potential."

Firstly to Michelle; The Giger Alien is also a nasty, deadly organism which appears to be impossible to control. It doesn't come with an instruction book either.

David8 can translate the engineers language and appears to understand the black stuff, therefore, other Weyland-Yutani synthetics would probably be able to figure out what it is and how it works.

Which leads us back to the question of Why the Alien and not the goo?

Secondly to Lone and Monster Zero, you both appear to be asking the same question, so please indulge me while I put my 2 pence worth in.

There is no logical reason (yet) why the company would favour the Alien over the goo.

Is there some mysterious reason why they seem to be so obsessed with obtaining the Giger Alien while not seeming to care a jot for the goo?

Well, when the other instalments in the ALIEN franchise were created, the Black Goo didn't exist (as we all know) but now it is a part of the canon, it gets people asking questions like "Why the Alien and not the goo."

It's an honest question, and one that needs to be answered. I don't think they will answer it, i think it will be overlooked because the average movie-goers don't care about the questions WE care about.

The only possible explanation I can think of is that NO transmission EVER made it back to W Y headquarters. None of the transmitions from David8, ASH or the one from ALIens were received by W Y hq, EVER, throughout the series.

Therefore,.....

To be continued...

@Necronom 4

I see it like this 

Prometheus discover Black Goo with lots of questions. There is no Zeno yet just a rather pathetic looking Deacon that has no seeming value. No one has seen what this can lead to just some odd ball monster on an empty planet the really interesting element is David's knowledge and what the Goo can trigger. 

Covenant discover that the Black Goo through David's manipulations can trigger the Zenomorph which is created out of a life cycle which includes mankind. At this point W-Y decide that along with their synthetics they want a specimen to determine its full potential. That happens as a result of Covenant.

However we can now discover an even bigger story W-Y is at its heart run by Synthetics who wish to use it achieve their mechaniod/bio mechaniod  supremacy.

Thanks to the heroism of the intervening characters such as Ripley this fails and they remain frustrated though more attempts will follow and that may be a big part of A. 5. where Ripley finds her ultimate enemy is a Synthetic run W-Y. The theme of the little guy up against a corporations rigourus pursuit of some thing they believe they can harness to their benefit (the old fashioned pursuit of power) is grown into it being part of the creator creations parallax where the Synthetics see it  as weapon they can use. By placing A 5 after A L I E N S you could reframe those two stories to show what was R E A L L Y happening.            

...Continued from the last post

(Sorry, I thought that last post was draggin' on a bit and I really needed the WC! Don't worry BigD, I'm not trying to steal your thunder Haha. This is probably the longest post I have ever written lol.)

...It would explain why W Y were never interested in the black stuff, because They didn't know it or the alien even existed. 

It would also explain why, in ALIENS, W-Y didn't appear to know that the Derelict, Space Jockey and Cargo was there. The colonists had been there for 20 years and no-one was sent out to the derelict in all that time? That tells me that they (WY CEO's) didn't even know that the Nostromo landed there and what happened. A huge mistake by Cameron?

What I take from ALIEN and the beacon/warning signal, is that MOTHER and ASH had been programmed to respond to any possible contact with Alien lifeforms. They had absolutely zero knowledge of the Derelict, Space Jockey and cargo of eggs until Dallas and Lambert (I'm assuming) told them about it.

The only explanation, for me, to explain the lack of knowledge of the goo, is that no-one from the Covenant mission survived. Or, maybe someone did survive but they never got the opportunity to talk about the goo.

No-one from the Prometheus mission got the chance to tell all about it.

Maybe Ripley was ever the only one to have gotten back to Earth (In ALIENS.) But she had no knowledge of the goo.

While I think this is a good way to explain why the powers that be never really seemed to know much about what had been discovered until Ripley told the board of CEO's and Burke in ALIENS, it would mean that the WYR is just fan fiction and not canon.

Who knows, there might be an explination for it all in ALIEN: Covenant which explains all the inconsistencies?

I hope not though! I personally hope no-one survives to tell the tale! It would be very fitting. 

@Necronom 4

Yeah, not a big fan of terra forming LV426...Didn't they do a survey of the planet before they started?!

W Y: "So you guys checked for life? any structures? any crashed spaceships withing driving distance of where we are going to build Hadley's Hope?"

Building crew: "Yes sir! nothing within miles!"

I'd just assume Aliens was a Ripley(Jonesy)Cryo-Dream...I think Ridley favors this as well!

Yeah man. That's something else I can't understand about Cameron's mindset; He sent a load of families off to a baron rock, 39 light years from Earth to terraform it, for what?

He obviously had no idea that Ridley had landed there 57 years earlier and the impression that the audience got was that the Company knew all about it.

Cameron obviously didn't engage his brain!

Ok, that's the last time I'm gonna Cameron bash, I promise.

Maybe. 

WY partnered with the ECA to terraform LV-426 as an advance in mineral rights. The novelisation mentions that the amount of methane in the atmosphere made it an ideal terraforming candidate. The River of Pain novel also touches on other motives.

As for why the Company didn't go after the accelerant - the Prometheus mission was classified, no one on the crew knew where they were going and those who did were all on the ship, and subsequently dead or missing.

Ok while not to clog this thread up...

I had gained a bit more information from the source and updated it here..

Prometheus 2 Plot Possible Leak Speculation

Yes there are things from Alien and Aliens and Prometheus that contradict or dont add up... as far as prior knowledge.

I would assume that some at the company knew by the time of the latter movies that something prior had happened.

The Nostramo was re-routed to collect Ash and he became a member of the crew to perform Order 937, he knew of the Signal from LV-426 and he knew also that it was not a SOS but a Warning, but his duty on board was to obtain a Specimen and the Crew of the Nostramo where just Pawns.

It is very likely David was also aware of the LV-426 signal and after Prometheus he would have been able to Put 2+2 Together.  And who is to say if he never settled down on LV-426 before he departed to Paradise?

So it would be interesting to see these things covered and also how the Covenant manages to find Paradise as i doubt 90% plus of the Crew have a single idea that they are going to a World that is related to the Engineers or LV-223/LV-426

I think they would be just as unaware as the Nostramo Crew were.

So will David 8 become MOTHER? It would be nice, when I'm watching Alien,  to think David is still out there....messing with us.

And It really sounds as though the A.I. are running the show....So many light years between W Y and the crews of these ships...You can't wait for orders....You really need a avatar standing right there.

Ash was rotated onto the crew just before they left Thedus.  They weren't re-routed to pick him up.

Yeah that was what i meant lol

My re-routed i mean it would seem the company got the ship to go to Thedus to pick up Ash for exactly the reason of the Signal on LV-426 prior to Ash being assigned to replace the Science Officer he and the company knew more about LV-426 than the helpless crew of the Nostramo.

The ship was not then on its way to some place and then re-routed to LV-426... it would seem very likely that the company made it appear this way but indeed the ships destination was LV-426 for its motive of Order 937

The ship's itinerary was Sol-Thedus return (picking up Ripley, Parker and Brett on the outward journey).  The WYR says it picked up the signal from LV-426 on the way to Thedus, but it was initially thought to be from a lost probe and ignored.  When it got back to Network, it was deciphered, word sent to Thedus, Ash rotated onto the crew, SO 937 issued and the ship secretly re-routed to make it look like Mother picked it up by accident.

Interesting stuff.

But with the whole Franchise it seems those pulling the strings may know more than whats let on...  Maybe we will never know or be shown.... but when the company received this signal as the Nostromo was on the way to Thedus  we have to ask did at any point the company be that Weyland or Yutani prior to Merger or after... not pick up Shaws SOS 28 years prior

Also what of the Covenant, how much did they know or the company suits who sent Covenant to Paradise as far as Shaws SOS and LV-223 and surely if they knew then how could they miss the LV-426 signal.

They Weyland Industries Website states the company knew about the Zeta 2 System and discovered it in May 14, 2039 but only as far as it being a system that has ringed planet with  multiple moons that may be able to support life.

Also prior to reaching LV-223 David knew about LV-426 to a degree as a long range scan had detected that maybe LV-426 has bigger riches to gain than LV-223.  And only David was to be made aware of LV-426... Vickers Shaw and Holloway was not to be informed of the results of such scans

Could the LV-426 Signal had been detected by those scans and could David had detected it while he was nearing LV-223

Or was the Signal not there of Prometheus?

Maybe the next few movies could answer that, even if the Space Jockey was there for thousands of years, they could change the Plot so that the SOS was activated years after... maybe even by a company crew?

Perhaps.

The absence of Shaw's signal could be explained in that she transmitted it via Vickers lifeboat, and the lifeboat ran out of power after a couple of years.

The Fire & Stone comics also talk about a signal from Prometheus coming from beneath a mountain on LV-223 and the 'mountain' is a living thing (possibly the Deacon) which is all but blocking the transmission.  With the latter in mind I don't imagine they'll explore LV-223 again.

Yes maybe they will bypass it... or maybe this is where Alien 5 comes in?

LV-223 did leave a lot of questions as far as why the company never went back or not that we was shown (which does not mean it never happened).

This could be explained someway without having to visit LV-223, explained someway why they only wanted the Xenomorph...

Fire and Stone did cover it.. but if this is to be Canon it leaves a lot of Plot Holes as far as Aliens onwards... but not if Alien 3 and Alien R are replaced.

Thing that bugs me if they dont cover it, and we are just left to then think... well the Weyland Yutani report points to Fire and Stone... is that if we then pursue Fire and Stone as Canon and what is actually happening..

Then this brings Predators into the Franchise.

Then again we dont know what changes are made to the draft for the sequel...

Alien Engineers was LV-426 changed to near by moon LV-223....

Ridley hinted that he always felt LV-426 was Paradise.

And so right now, as far as Canon in the movies we dont know if LV-426 was a Lush Paradise of a World rather than a Dark and Baron place.... 

Or like Fire and Stone showed.. that if LV-223 after the contamination and crashed Juggernaught that happened in Prometheus, maybe LV-223 could evolve into a less Baron Jungle World.

Thus maybe Alien Covenant could be set on either LV-223 that has gone from Baron to a degree to more habitable or a LV-426 that was habitable  but by the time of Alien is baron?

Mind you the Synopsis says "Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy" which literally could mean upto 75'000 Light Years away... which is unlikely.

Yet Prometheus was set on the Dark side of the Universe which is well.... could be Billions of Light Years away in another Galaxy.

So we dont know how far Paradise is... but i would imagine its not near LV-223 and LV-223 cant be Paradise as the Engineer said they was not from there...

But we cant rule out David luring them to one of those places instead of going to where Shaw wanted to go... however the Covenant is going to uncharted Paradise which maybe rules LV-223 because would it be charted after Prometheus or not?

@BigDave; Weyland and David having prior knowledge of the signal coming from LV426 is something from the Weyland files on the DVD/Bluray isn't it? Didn't FOX come out and say that those files were just a bit of fun and not to be taken as canon?

Which leads me to;

S.M. - "The WYR says it picked up the signal from LV-426 on the way to Thedus, but it was initially thought to be from a lost probe and ignored."

This actually makes sense. It suggests that Weyland Yutani and therefore David had no prior knowledge of the Derelict and cargo,which is how I've always seen it. Like I said in an earlier comment; I don't think ASH and MOTHER were in direct contact with W Y hq. I think MOTHER and therefore ASH had inbuilt programming that gave them certain protocols to follow in the event that they came into contact with extra-terrestrial life, therefore only collating between themselves, not W Y hq.

What brings me to this conclusion is that if ASH and MOTHER had been in contact with WY hq during the events of ALIEN, surely WY hq would have received information from ASH about the Alien, derelict and its co-ordinates.

Therefore, if they had had this information then surely they would have sent another crew when the Nostromo didn't arrive home. 

In ALIENS, another crew isn't sent to LV426 until 37 years later. And they weren't there to investigate the derelict and cargo. They were there to terraform. It wasn't until Ripley got back to Earth and informed them about what had happened and they didn't believe her until contact with the colony was lost.

Therefore, they had no prior knowledge of the derelict and cargo.

As far as Burke and the company were concerned, they were going to LV426 to get a specimen of an alien lifeform. But, they had no idea what it was and what it was capable of. But, no one made it back to Earth to tell the tale.

It wasn't until ALIEN 3 that information about the alien was sent to WY hq. And a team was sent out to capture it, unsuccessfully.

So, the only way that ALIEN: Covenant can believably exist in the same universe as ALIEN, is if the crew and David8 don't get the chance to give WY hq information about what they've discovered.

I'm betting that none of the A C crew make it and that David8 will either be destroyed or he will remain on Paradise. 

There's been this assumption in the ALIEN series fan community that WY knew all about the alien and what it is capable of, all along. And that they have been so hell bent on capturing it, for military purposes;

When, the first time we find out what the company's intentions are is when Burke tells the marines that he's there to secure a specimen. 

How does he know that it could be used for military purposes? The company don't know anything about it and what it is capable of. 

I think Burke doesn't realise what it could be used for until he sees first hand what it is capable of. Therefor, It's Burke and Burke only who assumes it can be used for military applications after seeing what it can do.

ASH surmises that it's "a perfect organism" and probably thinks it could be of great use to the company, but he's destroyed so he doesn't get the chance to collate with WY about his findings.

@Necronom 4 

To micromanage three possibly four movies spanning spanning 37 years and interlock the detail is a tall order and for me not crucial. History in the world we inhabit from 25 years ago is adjusted and nuances lost.

However we are discussing triggers here. When you are sat in the Cinema in August 2017 what one hopes for is a really clearly defined progression which sets up the journey to Paradise rather than LV223 or LV426 in a plausible way. If it is a colony ship with a hidden agenda it seems fairly clear to me you would not send it to known destinations which cannot support life. This is not a terraforming expedition. Now if the pull to Paradise is clear and well drawn I am not going to sit there and say why ignore this that and the other.

As regards the way A L I E N and A L I E N S is portrayed and who knew what, the atmosphere of those movies is that somebody knew a great deal more than they were letting on. What you have made me think about is I need to watch the films over the next couple of months and look at whether you can apply prior knowledge to what is in front of you. My recollection of both films is that both the crew of Nostromo and the Terraforming colonists where pawns. As I said elsewhere in the thread, to legitimise the nature of W - Y deception and dissembling one way is to make them synthetic at the core and for one reason in particular they could wait and play a very long ball.

Deciding to divert the Nostromo and placing colonists into a thriving terraformed environment may have always been their long ball game. When they put the colonists on LV426 they did not expect to find a survivor from the Nostromo emerge out of deep space. Once she was around they might have decided the ultimate pay back was to make this troublesome individual a host. Similarly why did David not dupe Elizabeth and take the Juggernaut to earth, he is playing the long game and like Ash and Bishop after him he makes logical calculations to determine his actions but those calculations do not always lead to a logical result and one that gives him what he is expecting. But I believe David's ambitions may turn out to be quite a revelation in the end including to him.         

Hi Michelle; you said, "My recollection of both films is that both the crew of Nostromo and the Terraforming colonists where pawns. As I said elsewhere in the thread, to legitimise the nature of W - Y deception and dissembling one way is to make them synthetic at the core and for one reason in particular they could wait and play a very long ball."

I too get the impression that the crew of the Nostromo are just being used as mere pawns. But the fact that they (In ALIENS) didn't send any of the colonists out to the derelict until Ripley told them about what went down, tells me that they had no knowledge of it.

I don't mean any disrespect when I say that I don't buy the "playing the long ball game," explanation. Why would they wait 37 years to secure something (apparently) of great value to them? The colonists had been on LV426 for 20 years according to one member of the board of directors. Don't forget that they would be under pressure to keep their investors happy aswell.

But, maybe you're right. Maybe even the CEO/s of WY are being played like puppets from someone higher up and that puppet master wants to play the long game for some reason. Not sure what that reason would be though.

Which brings us back to the question, "Why the Alien and not the goo?"   

WY knew there was something dangerous on LV-426.  They didn't know what.  When the Nostromo didn't come back whoever issued Special Order 937, covered it up.  They were working alone or in a small group - much like Burke in Aliens.

There's never been any grand conspiracy by the Company to use the Nostromo crew of Hadley colonists as pawns.  They were just being opportunistic because they didn't know what they were dealing with.

If they knew there was a capital A Alien on LV-426 and knew all about it, they would've sent a specialised mission to get one - just like they did in Alien3.

I think these are honest questions and we are trying to figure it out from a logical perspective.. Fuckin hell I'm turnin into spock

Continued....

They've got to tie this up or were just oing to end up confsed 

@S M 

"If they knew there was a capital A Alien on LV-426 and knew all about it, they would've sent a specialised mission to get one - just like they did in Alien3."

Yes, I could live with that. 

Space exploration is VERY expensive.....Doubt they could just send a ship without hundred's of company folk wanting to know the why's and where's. They would demand a return on their investment(s).

And if it is A. I. running the show...they can wait.....a very long time.

Right, I think I've got my keys working for the time being.

Continuing on from my last post: 

I would like to see the WY perspective (their motives and agendas) explained in a very (if they're run by humans) Down to Earth way.

IF it turns out that WY are infact run by AI then anything goes really. Any kind of strange explanation could be implemented if this were the case.

Has anybody ever thought that maybe ASH was the new head of WY and that the buck stopped with him?

Therefore, no need for transmissions of the alien organism to WY hq?

"Look, those two specimens are worth millions to the bio-weapons division, right? Now, if you're smart...we can both come out of this heroes and we will be set up for life."

"Ripley, think of all we could learn from it. It's the chance of a lifetime. You must let me have it. It's a magnificent specimen."

What's more down to Earth than old fashioned self interest?

I don't understand what the idea that the Company is run by robots is born out of?