Alien and the religious angle

The only Alien movie except for Prometheus that dealt a lot with religion was Alien 3 and there they managed to get it right because they were not fanatics or dumb about it. Some of the prisoners even questioned the religious thing.

Shaw just came off as stupid about her religious beliefs. Not even after all she went through does she question her beliefs (which is another issue that I have about the character). Believing in God and mix it with religion doesn’t always need to be a contradiction, it depends how you do it but they didn’t get it right with Shaw.

I don’t see where it fits with Alien but I agree that there isn’t any in Aliens. As far as the religious thing in covenant I hope that they focus on other things but to put some questions about religion and our roots is alright if it is done in an interesting way. They got to get it better this time around.

Hopefully Alien Covenant won’t be as much about religion as Prometheus was. I agree with Stan Winston about this.

Michelle: You have a point about David having plenty of information. But could he foresee how the engineer would react when awoken after about 2000 years in cryosleep - and the sole survivor of the engineers on LV-223 (perhaps the only one still alive at all)? Would he still stubbornly carry on with the plan of destroying mankind or would he reconsider? One thing David obviously didn’t foresee was that he would get his head torn off. :)

@Chli. My way of looking at this is that David was driven principally by curiosity. He had nothing to fear for himself. "The trick is Mr Potter for me its does not hurt". The second driver was  his passive aggressive role as servant to Sir Peter Weyland. He had none of the thinking that drove Janek/Meredith or Janek/ Shaw. They were curious as to the effect of the wakeup but there were a series of other sophisticated emotionally responses to what had happened informing them. Its clear to me the audience did not have that communicated as effectively to them as it should have been otherwise they would have seen that scene as the single most tension filled moment of these sequence of films. 6 billion souls future hung on that wake up and what happened, and the threat the Engineer posed should have been seen to be far greater than the sub created bio weapon of the nostromo. Sir Peter this pathetic wizened old man was in that moment the most dangerous member of his species and in terms of the overall arching story his gift to the story is to bequeath that theme of unbridled self absorption and self interested acquisitiveness to the future which without Ripley would have given the mutagenised outcome a second chance.

The other gift that emerges out of this story telling is the question of how David "feels" about having his head ripped of by the Engineers and how that informs his future decisions.  

As humans when making decisions we prioritise our needs and then make a judgement of how to act. Often risk management is consciously or subconsciously influencing those judgements. David at that point did not appear to have the latter algorithm it was literally unbridled curiosity pursued for Sir Peter's mad  delusional ambitions.

ali81 - I have the books but I won't ruin your future reading experience. :) I think the visual characteristics of the movie 2010 are brilliant. Read and watch simultaneously, that would be an exciting reading-spree.

Hungarian edition of 2061 - the cover was painted by Gábor Szikszai and Zoltán Boros:

Other (Alien/Predator) paintings by them:

The Ark of the Covenant background in the mission patch as well, is a very powerful religious symbol.

ninXeno - I like their paintings very much, I'm into their robots and spaceships.

ninXeno - ...and I totally agree with you, I believe Alien: Covenant won't deliver many religious patterns, and the ones included will be easy to discover and read.

Michelle: I agree that it is a very important moment and it could have been made into a Hollywood climax scene in the likeness of Armageddon but I suppose that is one of Scott’s characteristics that he wants to tone down and leave things more ambiguous and in the eye of the beholder (e.g. not showing too much of the alien)?

It might also be the case that Lindelof didn’t make the best of what was possible (as compared to Spaihts) when it comes to creating suspense? On the other hand, Prometheus has with its ambiguity, and maybe even flaws, perhaps made it one of the most discussed movies in the Alien franchise? It is really interesting in very many ways (e.g. picking Zeta Reticuli as the setting which was in the center of the UFO discussion in the 60s, etc.)?

Was David really passive-aggressive by the way? Wasn’t he very active in bringing things about and not a “person” sitting sulking in a corner and obstructing things? He sets things in motion but in a delicate way? I agree with you that he could be looked upon as a curious boy, like a very intelligent child without experience.

I don’t necessarily see Sir Peter as a “pathetic wizened old man”. You simply can’t be all of these things at the same time. Or can you? Peter might be seen as an egoistic person seeking knowledge, power, money, eternal life (only to himself?). But isn’t this a bit of a cliché of the capitalist being the bad guy (We have Schindler’s List e.g.)? But was he the most “dangerous member of his species”? Was Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot really better (perhaps seen as caricatures in a movie)? Would they have given a reason for the engineers not to wipe out mankind?

@Chi His performance was based on the servant played by one of the Fox brothers and like all servants they get their way by subterfuge rather than head on confrontation. For me he was definitely passive aggressive in his relationship with Weyland and indeed others. A direct honest person would have told Charlie what was in the drink and ask him if he wants to take the risk but no he asks the open question and then spikes his drink. That is classic passive aggressive behaviour. The aggression is cloaked in an unctuous agreeable light demeanour put simply veiled hostility .   

As for Weyland where was the thought through analysis of what had happened to date. The Engineers had suffered a holocaust, Elizabeth had birthed a dreadful mutation and all he could do was shamble down to the Juggernaut seeking eternal life amongst the carnage. Right at the moment for me he was a pathetic old man whom David wanted dead, channelling grown up children who want there parents inheritance! That entire sequence when looked at from a risk management point of view was highly dangerous and frankly stupid, no for me he was pathetic.

I think the preponderance of creation myths and the human urge to tell stories, make and watch films, e.g., says something about us as a species...religious angle or no.

NIN, it's just for you, it's an image from a flashback scene from Alien: Covenant. It shows the time thousands years ago when people, engineers, and aliens lived in peace and harmony on LV-629.

Just kiddin', the images show a painting by Boros-Szikszai.

But Jonesy and BigChap are doing something in the bottom right hand corner. :)

They are planning to rule the world, kill the creators, and this kind of things... :D :D

Michelle: Yes, I suppose Peter could be looked upon as being pathetic. On the other hand, seeking a way of cheating death was his purpose with Prometheus from the beginning. About the risk of waking up the engineer, what did he have to lose? His days were numbered anyway? Did Peter know about the intended holocaust of humanity, the mutagen and Shaw’s birth, by the way? Also, Shaw is still curious about what the engineer has to say. She also wants to speak with him in the hopes of getting her answers. She still wants this (even though she knows more than Peter). Janek is perhaps the most realistic person of them all? He understands what the facility on LV-223 was all about (and why the engineers wouldn’t do these kind of experiments on their own home world). Probably this epidemic somehow spread to their own home world long ago or David and Shaw brings it there? In May we will probably find this out? :)

You might be right about the passive-aggressiveness by the way . . .