Alien and the religious angle

"ninXeno - I like their paintings very much, I'm into their robots and spaceships."

Or Female Bottoms? LOL

@Michelle

With regards to Weyland being Pathetic... i think he was more Desperate than anything and he did play a Fool.... but i would assume had it not been for him having just Days to Live and this being his last HOPE of gaining some sense of Immortality from the Gods..

Is why he was foolish indeed as you described.

If i continue with a Religious theme i dont think Weyland was a Believer, and he had only chosen to have somewhat some faith in Shaws findings in the hope that indeed She was RIGHT and they find Mankinds creators and that when they do, they would be able to Grant Weyland his WISH

I think Weylands Ambition and Agenda with David was the hope that someday when Weyland could advance Technology as far as to be able to Transfer a Humans Mind and Memories into a Computer then Weyland would have gained Immortality (so kind of like how they managed in the movie 6th Day) but Weyland for all his advancements could not find a way to accomplish this.  He may had been able to Transfer each David Prototypes Memories to the next Prototype and this i feel is the relation between David 8 and the opening Scene of AC between David 1 and Peter Weyland.  

Ridley said its a tale of Mortality and Immortality, and i think this theme through David will play a key role, and i think ultimately David was Weylands hope at trying to become Immortal.

I would think the Dream Visor Tech was Weylands someway point to try and indeed capture memories and dreams.

It will be interesting to see the subtle Religious themes that Alien Covenant will expand upon....

@Chli The dynamic at this point in the story is David is the one person who has both the temperament and the knowledge to make the right decision. Elizabeth is traumatised, Meredith driven by compliance and protocols unable to think round the issue is out of her depth and this leads to her death. Janek is watchful and at the controls which leads to the resolution of the issue. Sir Peter is delusional and single minded ignoring the facts or not even listening, a little like Hitlers last few days in the bunker or any other megalomanic just before the denouement. But David the obsequious. "supportive", servant allowed the matter to proceed with full knowledge and only once Sir Peter was dieing taunted him with his knowledge.

We will see much more of this scheming manipulative David in Covenant. He lost his independence in Prometheus and he will be careful not to see that compromised in anyway again. Walter will be a personal threat to him and then there will be the entire element which is missing from us what further discoveries he has made and executed with the Chemical A0-3959X.91 – 15 and the broader opportunity to study The Engineers own technology as well as their uncovenanted achievements. Ironically these may echo Sir Peter, having been granted Valhalla and seeded it, they broke their Covenant and attempted to cheat death for which they suffered terrible retribution .. at the hands of...... 

As far as how David felt.... i agree with you Michelle there, while he was doing what Weyland wanted, he did seem to have his own motives and seemed he just wanted to be free and with Weyland dead he now can be.

You raise a good question about how he feels now with regards to after the Engineer ripped his Head off... would he want to seek Revenge?

Who knows... but i am sure he values his own survival and agenda and he would know maybe Shaw would be a thorn to his plans.. and indeed if thats how One Engineer Reacted.. how would many more?

He would have little chance...

Unless he can make a COVENANT or indeed he decides its easier to just Unleash Hell for David it does not matter where WE came from or how the Engineers connected.  When he asked Shaw, why it mattered... She claimed he would not know because he was a Robot.

In reality it would not matter to David, as he could gather information he needs for his Agenda from the ASH's of a Gone Engineer Civilization.

@BD I think you touch upon one of the connected themes between P & C, the Dream Visor could/will be one of those elements that Wayne Haag was referring to and that it will take on a more significant meaning than was intended by JS/DL in their scripts. It is a notable artistic accident that David had mind intimacy with both Weyland and Shaw and BOTH actors along with MF have a role in Covenant. 

Michelle: I think that you can look upon Miss Vickers as just as egoistic as Sir Peter? She is only interested in her career in Weyland-Yutani Corp. She thinks she loses about five years of beauty and success within the company by going on a trip involving higher achievements which she is not interested in (being very superficial). She is also most like the cowardly lion with bodyguards and wanting to leave as soon as possible (she doesn’t even care that humanity will be wiped out or understand that there won’t be a home to go back to).

I agree that David will probably be the most interesting character in AC. Daniels will just be another Ripley (perhaps evolving from a rather clumsy, timid terraformer to a resolute fighter and survivor). David says it straight out to Shaw that he is disappointed in his creator and that everybody wants to see their parents dead (Shaw doesn’t). His agenda might be to kill Sir Peter (or have the engineer do it for him). Shaw also asks him what happens when Weyland isn’t around to program him anymore. He then answers: “I suppose I’ll be free”. I guess we’ll find out what David does with his freedom in AC? :)

a desperate man is a foolish man, not necessarily a pathic one. his actions, fuelled by desperation can often lead to bad choices with dire consequences, but pathetic? what alson needs to be given consideration is the amount of knowledge david allowed him to have. had he been given all the facts, that there was nothing here for him, by the one individual he may listen to, would he accept his fate? probably not. he was a dying man and nothing to lose after all so why not take those final steps. david is very much a curious child but one held back by the existence of his father, weyland. he is very much acting like the child on the playground who stirs things, starts rumours and sits back and views the results without being in the firing line themselves, but with asperations for what he can do once free from his fathers watchful eye. he must have been so disappointed when the time came he was free, he had been beheaded and now incapable of furthering his own ambitions. 

ali81: Yes, but it would seem that David manages to persuade Shaw somehow into reassemble him? I guess we will find out how in the prequel novel?

she has no way off the planet and we all have that primal instinct to stay alive. she also saw an opportunity to further her quest for answers. with david in the condition he was in, shaw must have felt she was in a good enough position to take him up on his offer. he didn't have to try that hard and persuade her

No, but she knows he can't be trusted. But I suppose she is a bit naive, wants to be kind and get her philosophical/religious answers? They probably get into bargaining? David helps her with the juggernaut in exchange for what - perhaps putting the head on the torso and giving him one arm so that he can steer the ship? I think that as soon as he gets control over the ship she is doomed (even if she doesn't need to be in hypersleep). When he gets access to the high tech of the ship he can probably do almost anything - open doors (to the cargo hold, to airlocks), control temperature, control oxygen level etc?

BigDave, how rude, :) , this thread is about religious aspects and you are talking about female body parts. There is R2D2 in that painting as well. Why don't you concentrate on him? :)

Indeed i think there was some interesting Dynamic with Shaw and David to be told... that Sadly i dont think we would get to see now.

As a Plot Device.... If Shaw refuses to help then all we have is the Two of them stuck on LV-223 and so the only way a movie could move forwards would be a rescue mission or other ship intercepts the transmission and then arrives at LV-223

But we have been there and seen it, and if Prometheus was to show us the Engineers are all gone on LV-223 then the only logical choice would be to follow David and Shaw.

Shaw has no choice in the matter...

*She does not know how the Engineers Ships work as far as ability to sustain her until another Earth ship arrives... and then who is to say Humans would get there first (a Question David puts to her in Spaights Draft).

*She would know she can survive for 2 years on the Lifeboat, but then its assuming the damage to it has not affected that.  And she sure as hell does not know the Dangers that await after the Engineer vs her Child Scene... she surely would think that would be a grave risk.

*There is nothing to go back home for, she wanted to get Answers and what she found was totally against what she may have hoped for when she had asked Weyland for help. 

So she is prepared to take up Davids Offer.

A Covenant of sorts... you would expect before she helps him she would try and arange some bargain with David.

Its a case of what end would David keep... and indeed once she is in Cryo-sleep.. which we have to assume happens... David could go anywhere he wants.

Earth? LV-426 or back to LV-223 for a nose around.

But i think he would just head to Paradise as he can get more of his own Answers then.

Perhaps the smartest thing for Shaw to do would be to get back to the life support shuttle? Get the gun (which is in the pilot room of the crashed juggernaut) and face the trilobite. She doesn’t know about The Deacon which probably hasn’t been born yet and if it is birthed she might be able to kill it with the gun? She could contact Earth and wait up to 2 years for a rescue ship? To put herself in the mercy of David would be suicide? But we have a curious girl and a curious boy heading for the homeland of the Engineers . . . :)

Pathetic 

The wonderful quality of the English language is many words have quite different meanings. I do not think Sir Peter's quest was pathetic in some sense it was bold and audacious, it was that the man at the end was contemptible and wretched rather like the character in the movie "Servant" where he had been reduced by his preoccupations and the manipulations of his servant who only fed him what he wanted to hear. Thats what I mean by pathetic not the sorry woeful application. 

Vickers 

I have met so many Vickers. The classic person who works in compliance where everything is rule bound and risk managed, intuition and brave entrepreneurial decision making do not come in to it. When faced with a highly unorthodox threat they go to pieces, the orthodoxy of rules cannot help them and they are left stranded which is precisely why Meredith died. She is quite the opposite of the risk taking father. Janek had recently made love to her and was the perfect gentleman and gave her a chance but she was out of her depth and like the inexperienced but trained  pilot or soldier thrown into a real life situation is at their most vulnerable until they gain some street experience she had no time to climb that learning curve. Charlize suffers from being beautiful and that dazzles many, so they do not see the subtlety of her Prom performance, her starting dialogue for the briefing was so on for someone like her, speaking to the audience she was speaking to. Her handling of Shaw and Charlie made clear the mission was a conceit  Her view of the conceit was different to her father but still a conceit nonetheless.

Indeed Michelle Weyland did Act Pathetic in his whole outlook, he was desperate but foolish as well, very arrogant if not naive.

Never seemed to cross his mind that awakening one of these Engineers would be met with nothing more than Embrace and a Welcome.

David however knew what Sinister Plot they planned for Mankind, indeed was he also Foolish and Naive?

I would think he was kind of just following Weylands Orders, and who knows maybe he knew there would be the Potential the Engineer would react bad and not give Weyland want he wanted.

But then if David wanted his Parent dead.

I think David was curious and bewildered at finding the Engineers i think he was fascinated by them, like he was with Peter O'Toole in his  Lawrence of Arabia Role

He seemed to admire and respect the Engineers, we have to ask was he not expecting anything but a Warm Embrace too?

I do think the "Once Bitten Twice" quote comes to play here, i am sure David would not want to risk such a thing again once his head is back on.

So he will have a Plan!  does he try and make a Covenant? or Once Bitten Twice Shy

I see Sir Peter more like a stubborn, self centered old man (a bit like Scrooge, perhaps), just as Vickers is a stubborn, self centred, vain, aging woman. They are intelligent but not wise. Sir Peter is the risk taking man (as you say, Michelle) and Vickers more of needing control (no visionary). I don’t think neither of them would have liked to be pitied. “Pathetic” is a bit hard to define, I think? In rhetoric, “pathos” is evoking feelings in the audience, e.g. feelings of sympathy, empathy etc. It’s also used derogatory. You see Sir Peter as pathetic because he is a shadow of his former self - a crippled, drooling, stubborn, perverted image of the young, prosperous businessman? He’s also worth the pain and sorrow he is now suffering in his old age, ailments and death agony? He’s seeking prolonged life for himself, firstly, and secondly as a way of using this knowledge in WY in order make more money? Imagine the profits a company would make if it had the knowledge of prolonging life (perhaps forever)?

We’ll see if Sir Peter will live on in the synthetic world, perhaps in Walter (implanted memories), BD? :)

@BD David was foolish and naive from our point of view as sentient human beings who are driven by fear of death PW/financial greed most of the crew/inadequacy Elizabeth you name it but to me David is like a small boy who is just plain curious. The way he opens the headroom door being a classic Davidian manoeuvre. But why would he let Weyland go down there ? Well thats what you asked for and your the boss so lets do it (The P/A) element but he would be fascinated in his own right everybody was including the audience. He had some answers  "mortal after all" (that will be another one of those themes in Covenant which will look a lot clearer in the rear view mirror). He wants some more answers. He would be interested in why the Engineers wanted to destroy his creators. Now of course having been destroyed himself he might subsequently conclude he is more interested in their tech and the "stolen tech" and doesn't need a philosophical answer, its just an inter species hierarchical because we think we can answer. Indeed he might want to work on what basis they came into being and why they were granted Valhalla and by whom because someone or something has put paid to them and they are now yesterdays news. Thats where the repositioning of the mythos since Prom (there just a superior species) gets interesting.

The big question of the movie is how he reacts to what he sets in motion. Curiosity killed the cat.

Once bitten twice shy that would play into the notion of David the bomber pilot and is a reaction to being torn apart by those "only mortal after all" lot. We shall see, nice discussion about Prometheus and its all about everything quality whereas Covenant will be all about somethings.     

I also see David as a curious boy but he is not interested in the questions Shaw needs an answer to. David considers them to be irrelevant. He is himself created without a meaningful purpose to himself - just “because we could” (But he is fascinated by the engineers’ technology and what you can do with it)? In fact, he offered Shaw a ride home which she refused. She would still be at his mercy, of course . . .

“Curiosity killed the cat . . . but satisfaction brought it back”. :)

heh 100...