centrosphere
MemberOvomorphMay-12-2017 7:39 AMScott was right: the beast is cooked.
I saw the movie yesterday, and was disappointed. In my opinion, Prometheus was a much better movie.
The fact is, the xeno was a fantastic surprise in Alien, but isn´t that interesting anymore. In the sense that everybody knows what happens when you have xenos onboard. The mistery is over.
As antiscientific as the Prometheus take on human origins is, at least it is an interesting line of development.
It´s very clear to me what happened: Scott wasn´t in the mood for xenos (he confessed this). But as the unhappyness of part of the fanbase with Prometheus grew, the suits in Fox probably threatened Scott with no greenlight for the for the squel, or still worse, with an Alien 5 directed by someone else.
This armtwisting probably made Scott go back in his convictions, and that explains the lazy movie that Alien:Covenant is.
SOME of the problems can be attributed, of course, to the needs of "suspension of disbelief" that is natural in movies of this kind. This is why we accept to stay in the room when an interestellar ship recharge with solar panels in the middle of nowhere, for example. Or when we accept that in the XXII century people forgot to do what we used to do when exploring a new planet: study it from the orbit first, send unmanned probes second, only land there when you are absolutely sure there is no problem in doing this (yes there were the magnetic storms _ but a colonization ship should be equiped to prevail over these minor troubles).
Some other inconsistencies are more boring.
For example, we didn´t know until Alien Covenant that the mere exposition to the facehugger acid blood was enough to inseminate someone. This put in jeopardy the very idea of the facehugger needing to have an ovipositor. (just in case you weren´t aware, this is just what happens to Sergeant Lope).
Also, the final twist, that was of course abundantly hinted at before to the point it wasn´t really a twist, should have plainly avoidable, because in the end of the day Walter was nothing more than a piece of the Covenant equipment and as sure as hell MUTHER should have been aware that the returning "Walter" wasn´t Walter. They must have RFID´s in the XXI century...
Also I was appaled by the absence of any tech in the Engineers (or humanoids) homeworld. Actually we can´t see any piece of tech other than the scorpion ship and the lights at David´s studio. This has consequences, because all the "research" David were doing these years were not top notch genetic research: David´s studio was more akin that of a XIX century naturalist, with drawings and taxidermy specimens, but lacking microscopes, autoclaves, reaction chambers or genetic sequencers. What he did was BREEDING, that is the same thing farmers do.
One has to think furiously to try to imagine what else would a new prequel cover, because whatever happens between Prometheus and Covenant, we already know the outcome: David destroys the planet civilization, kills Shaw. Probably very soon, as soon as they arrive at the planet. As it is very unlikely that "Alien: Awakening" will be made only to show David´s solitude in these ten years, we have to wonder about the plot.
S1m0n
MemberOvomorphMay-12-2017 7:51 AMthe face hugger acid to me did not infect the guy , it was on his face maybe long enough to insert an embryo.
I agree a lot of inconsistency but the film was ok.
centrosphere
MemberOvomorphMay-12-2017 8:13 AMS1m0n,
Good hypothesis, but now we have another inconsistency. Every person in the Alien universe that was implanted by a facehugger suffers some kind of coma and undergoes a period of loss of consciency. That happened to Oram, for example. This was not the case with Lope, so I conclude that there was no time for egg implantation (and probably no ovipositing).
Spirol
MemberOvomorphMay-13-2017 10:26 AMI think that egg implantation was very short and interrupted. There wasn't time to put host into coma so that's why he remembered everything. I think mother didn't recognise David because he uploaded his consciousness to Walter and somehow fused with it that's why he also have known about access codes and how to operate system. After all these aliens vs predators, aliens colonials marines game and other sh*t I finally really enjoyed alien movie but I must admit that for every alien fan I expected action and horror. Action was but horror? I was really laughing in many scenes: David taming and blowing on neomorph, throwing rocks on infected Oram and what dafuck was that flute and kiss scene xD anyway ending and David character is really awesome. i really liked this movie more than alien 4 and probably 3.
Spirol
MemberOvomorphMay-13-2017 10:38 AMOwww...and David with Protomorph rising their hands - hilarious xD
Snake
MemberFacehuggerMay-13-2017 5:12 PMI'm sorry but I have to disagree with you Centrosphere. I honestly don't get why you consider Covenant top be a lazy effort.
Spoilers...
Characters are getting backbursted, mouthbursted, chestbursted, bitten in half, or get their faces clawed off. I mean...what more do you want from a good horror? Ridley expanded the universe and he gave the alien-fans what they wanted. It's a win-win for everyone.
David's interaction with Weyland and Walter was more intriguing and thought-provoking than the whole Alien saga + prometheus .
When Oram gets facehugged and they cut it off his face,you can clearly see it's ovipositor wiggle, indicating that it already injected the embryo. I like to look at it this way: It can put it's host into a coma for pure sake of convenience, but it can also do what it's meant to do under pressure when it's instinct tells it it won't be able to finish.
Too bad you didn't like it, but to each their own. I enjoyed the hell out of it and I'm so glad the franchise is back on track.
David 7
MemberFacehuggerMay-13-2017 8:17 PMThis is probably a silly question but just out of curiosity, since I have yet to see t and I'm not bothered by spoilers...how the crew die, how had the worse death and how detailed were they with shower scene? Thanks!
Tonehound
MemberFacehuggerMay-13-2017 10:48 PMI totally agree with Snake. I thoroughly enjoyed the movie and feel it is a return to form. I'm not getting where all the negativity is coming from to be honest. I understand that there will be parts of the movie that won't sit with some and not everyone will be totally satisfied with it, of course, but the straight up views of some that verges on disgust is just baffling to me.
Face it: there will NEVER be another A L I E N. Or A L I E N S. Or Prometheus. A:C is it's own entity and I can assure that once you make peace with that, you will enjoy the movie and be better prepared for the journey ahead :)
Thomasmariel
MemberOvomorphMay-14-2017 5:05 AMAs far as Shaw's fate goes, I wish it hadn't happened but can understand the philosophical value of her death. Essentially, what Alien Covenant is doing in its use of Shaw is to tie the notion of self-awareness to fallacy. However, David's philosophical importance is then potentially problematic, because if David's story is about the right of discrepancy - the right of one creator to stop another creator from knowing their creation - what is the logic of Shaw's representation being moral?
Stan Winston (deceased)
MemberFacehuggerMay-14-2017 1:21 PM@David 7,
***SPOILERS***
"how the crew die?"
In order of death:-
Branson: death from burning,
Ledward: death from backbursting,
Karine: death from mauling / explosion,
Faris: death from explosion / burning,
Hallett: death from mouthbursting,
Ankor: death from jaw whipped off,
Rosenthal: death from decapitation,
Oram: death from chestbursting,
Cole: death from mauling,
Walter: death from unknown,
Lope: death from chestbursting,
Ricks: death from head impaled,
Upworth: death from unknown.
"who had the worse death?"
Such variety that it depends on your own sensibilities.
"how detailed were they with shower scene?"
Well, Ricks gets a protomorph's inner jaw pile through the back of his skull and out his own mouth. But they don't explicitly show Upworth's murder.
BigDave
MemberDeaconMay-14-2017 6:16 PM"Every person in the Alien universe that was implanted by a facehugger suffers some kind of coma and undergoes a period of loss of consciency."
This is a very good point... the whole post you put is correct, its very inconsistent...
But it was needed as a Plot Device for the same reasons Milburn had to Pet the Space Cobra... both could have been done better.
I think everyone has their own opinion and we have to respect that, i know a lot had flaws with Prometheus... well Alien Covenant has some improvements on some aspects... More Aliens, a explanation for the Xeno, Xenos and Eggs etc... more serious acting but then still not as real as Alien.
But then Covenant is also full of bizarre and silly scenes, many contradictions to established Lore... and More Plot Holes than you can shake a Stick at... Seriously way more Plot Holes than any movie in the Franchise...
Its a shame as it seemed they wanted to distance themselves from Prometheus, and bring us back to Alien, but they could not just ignore Prometheus... and so they had to try and Merge both ideas, while also trying to make the Characters and Plight very real... hence the Slow Burner Start...
These 3 things however means Sacrifices had to be made to each of them to allow them to fit within a 2 hour movie and so some things had to be changed and Speeded up.
Overall the movie is a Tale of TWO Halves... Its Half Decent and Half Disappointing... Neither Awful but Not Great either.
But this is just my opinion and maybe it will change with time, because Prometheus went from say a 5/10 to a 7/10 movie to me... A few improvements to Prometheus and it would been a Great movie... i think with AC, a whole Re-write may had been needed. Well a considerable amount.
People are still keen to Blame Lindeloff for Prometheus but Ridley worked on it too... so now i wonder who takes the Can again... Logan or Ridley Scott.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave
MemberDeaconMay-14-2017 6:19 PM@David 7
The movie is rushed... badly... the point up until after the Neomorph Attacks and then when they head to the City is paced very well... Sadly after that its Rushed.. and it would appear some Death Scenes could have been Cut down.
This happens when Studios aim to get a movie down to the 2 hour mark, they have to decide what goes and what gets cut down for the sakes of setting the pace to fit within the time-frame of a Theatrical Release.
I do think there has to be another 20-25 Minutes of Footage, that if added would have made the Movie a bit better.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
centrosphere
MemberOvomorphMay-16-2017 12:19 AMI agree with BigDave, everybody is entitled to their own opinions and we shouldn´t argue with that. But of course we can explain the opinions.
My main argument is that "returning to Alien" is a bad proposition. Alien was a masterpiece, and when you try to emulate it you get bad copycats. Aliens is considered a very good movie just because it used the same universe to do something very different. The sequels were unfortunate (although I like Alien 3) because they tried to do more of the same.
Prometheus, with all it´s failures, was worth the try because it took the story arc to a tottaly different place. And this is what creativity is for.
I think AC should have double down that direction. But they tried to make 2 movies in one, as BigDave said. Even the final splashdown with the xeno repeats the formula in Alien (xeno flung at space). That´s why I call AC lazy.
A final note: Alien is a movie from 1979. Now the Alien mythos fanbase mix a very diverse set of age cohorts. I was 16 years old when I saw Alien for the first time and by now my appettite for gore and pure horror is considerably diminished; I yearn for more intellectualy satisfactory experiences. But I have come to terms with the fact that the demographics of profiting in the movie industry goes against my desire. No resentments. :)
WilliamPotter
MemberOvomorphMay-16-2017 1:20 PMI've said it on this board before - there is a huge split in the Alien community as to what we want to see moving forward. Personally, I like the ideas and direction from Prometheus i.e., who created the alien, why, etc. Others prefer the suspense type Xenomorph gauntlet run, which was fun, for 2 films. By the 4th Alien, is was overkill, basically it became the Friday the 13th of Sci Fi
