The Mural in Prometheus

Coming back to this a few weeks later. I still can't understand how Ridley, the man who was obviously one of the main cogs in creating this "Alien" universe, made such a mess of this story line from "Alien" to "Alien: Covenant". I enjoy all of the movies on their own (Except the 4th...trash). Loved the transition from 1 to 2 even to 3, even find myself watching the AvP's way more than I should. Then came Prometheus, and as we all know the narrative took a 90 degree turn. At first, I thought it was crap to be honest. But being such a huge fan of the franchise, I stuck with it and now view it as a highly underrated film. It took balls to go in the direction that film went, and only Ridley could have pulled it off at that point in time (Damon needs a ton of credit as well). Prometheus should and could have been a catalyst into an awesome "Alien" narrative, but Ridley succumbed to Xeno fanboys who complained how there were not any in the film. And boom, Alien: Covenant. The film standing on it's own was pretty good. In the "Alien" arc, a total disaster. Oh what could have been. 

Well, if Ridley want filmed Alien movie without alien FOR THE GREAT STORY, of course. Why he destroying Blomkamp project? Movie special for people who want saw Alien movie with alien.

And more! The "original" Engineers - primeval caveman race who living in Stone Age? Seriously? Where biomechanical MEGAPOLICE? Where living hi-tech technologies, what we see in Prometheus? Where the great design of bodies? Like as great Engineers from Prometheus (yeah, they modified for living in space and another blahblahblah). Where all cool stuff, what peoples expecting see after Prometheus? Why they kill Show (repeat Alien3 mistake), by the way?

We have ONLY TWO original stuff - magic flying glowing rocks and neomorphs.

I love AC so much, and this is really cool movie and Xenomorph is one of the few things who made this movie cool.

@ Freezerinos

I will try and make another reply to your last post, one that is more straight to the point.  One i may have already covered though.

Indeed the Xenomorph was a more Ancient Event, One which as of between 2011-2013 at very least Ridley Scott had envisioned to have taken place around (give or take Few Hundred Years) the time of the OUTBREAK on LV-223, the Xenomorph (while still being a bit ambiguous) was thus a either a Result of those Experiments/Black Goo on LV-223 or the Xenomorph was the Origin that lead to those Experiments/Black Goo on LV-223 (RS hinted at the prior)

RS had a U-Turn where they felt having the Xenomorph become Created by David as being a sign of Ultimate Hubris on behalf of the Engineers (for Creating us/allowing us too much Freedom and knowledge) and then Mankind Repeating the same error with Creating David.

This does lead to a few Problems as far as there is NO Xenomorph Eggs on the Derelict (likely No Derelict) on LV-426 some 17-18 years prior to the Events of ALIEN... more so we can assume those Eggs Do-Not get on the Derelict before David arrives at Origae-6 which means that there are NO Eggs on the Derelict 10 years before the events of ALIEN

How can they address how the Derelict and Space Jockey looked like they had been there for a VERY long time?

*Employ some kind of Time-Travel Aspect, ideally as the result of a Destructive Force that Tears a Hole in Space/Time.

*Reveal that David does-not create the XENOMORPH but reveal he just creates his own VERSION.

*Leave things how they are going and the age of HOW-LONG the Space Jockey looks like its been there as just a Oversight.

I think Option 1 would be the best way forwards, but add running up to this that the Engineers Re-Engineer Davids Xenomorph.  But if they was allowed to continue with the Prequels i think we would just get Option 3 were the Assumption Dallas made about how old it looked like its been there and Fossilized are WRONG!  But his Assumption it looked like it Grew out the Chair  as being CORRECT.

I agree that going the David as Creator route is a ERROR in Hindsight but its something that can be fixed. By him being revealed as the Middle-Man so to speak.

I will add that indeed while PROMETHEUS did not give us those Answers to ALIEN, it was setting up something interesting but it just never GAVE the Answers some wanted or Xenomorphs... and NOW its a case of sometimes its be Careful what you WISH for because the Answers you get may NEVER live up to the expectations you would have hoped for.

I think this in part played a role in WHY they Toned down the Xenomorphs and Connection from Alien Engineers, thinking some things are better left to MYSTERY it appears that prior to 2013 their was NO WAY David was planned as the Creator, it appears between 2013-2014 they had the idea that David would Create Something Similar in that the Process of how he does this would give us clues to how the Original Xenomorph had came to be.  Then in 2015 it appears they thought while that was interesting would it not be more Shocking a Reveal if David actually Created the Original Xenomorph.

@Leto

I dont think it was the case of RS destroying Blomkamps Project, its more a case of Blomkamp (guided by Miss Weaver) had attempted to Destroy/Undo the other Movies after ALIENS and undermine RS Prequel ideas.

Blomkamps ideas Originally never involved having to resurrect Hicks, Newt and Ripley.  I  think his ideas should be taken on board for another ALIEN movie but NOT have Ripley, Newt or Hicks in it at all, unless its SET after the events of ALIEN Resurrection which is where i think a ALIEN 5 should be set.

I agree we need to get back to the more Advanced Bio-Mechanical Technology Aspect of those Prometheus Engineers.

Back to the MURAL....

Contrary to what some interpret it Does-Not show a Xenomorph, it shows something related, and it was confirmed by some working on the Project that this was the DEACON and the Urns contained DEACON DNA in that under a set series of circumstances those Urns would Produce a Deacon.

The MURAL had No Traditional Face Huggers, it depicts the TWO other Face Hugger Concepts that HR Giger had made and so it was simply a Mural in Honor of HR Giger.  and in part is just a EASTER EGG but in part a Confirmation that this place (LV-223) is connected to the Xenomorph as far as Experimentation goes.

The Jesus like POSE is also interpreted as being a sign of GOD and Worship... the only Religion where the Cruciform Pose is recognized as GOD and Worship is Christianity based Faiths.   The REAL reason for this is to Remind People that it was via his SACRIFICE (God/Christ) that Humanity has been given a Chance of AFTERLIFE for those who Remember the Sacrifice he Gave as well as following the Gospels.

So the MURAL should be looked at something that requires SACRIFICE which means that it leads us to TWO things.

1) That in order to Create/Give Life to the Xenomorph/Deacon (and related) requires Sacrifice and so its shows us that the Organism is Birthed via the Sacrifice of its Host.  Which in Context to LV-223 and those Engineers must mean they Self Sacrifice to Produce these BEASTS and they intend to Sacrifice their Creation (Mankind) to give LIFE to the BEAST.

2) That the Black Goo in those Urns and Experiments relating from it, came from the Sacrifice of the Organism depicted in the Mural, or they had Experimented to obtain such a Organism and then Sacrificed it to obtain the DNA that is in those Urns.

Regardless of which... the Engineers Admire and have some Worship to the Creation of Such BEASTS

Leto:

I agree that how they did the Engineers in Alien Covenant was lame. I imagined an advanced culture with science, military, buildings and so on... not how they were made in AC. My guess is that the studio thought that we as an audience were not interested in them after Prometheus so maybe they thought “get rid of them and focus on David”, which was the totally wrong response IMO.

Killing off Shaw was not a problem to me, she was annoying and naive. She was better in the Crossing (I think that was what the short clip before Covenant was titled) than in Prometheus by the way.

Having said this I am not interested in another Ripley movie. She has had four movies this far and we have had marines and so on so I can not see how they can make another exciting Ripley movie. At least the prequels have given us new characters that have been flat OK but at least they tried.

You like Alien Covenant? I think that it had mostly lame characters so I disagree.

Now, I was never very interested in another Ripley movie but what made me even more against it was to retcon (is that the word?) Alien 3, which is my favorite movie in the franchise and one of my favorites in general. Because of this I am totally OK that it never got made at least not with how they planned it. Having new characters that are well written would have been alright without writing out Alien 3 but having Ripley and Hicks back (and/or) Newt? No thanks

Let Scott direct and make landscapes and that but keep him far away from the story or else will get another fucking David movie.

I think what we need to remember is the Prequels are showing us that there are certain WAYS of Life to Live, that are appeasing to the Ways of the Gods.  We have people on Earth who have adopted more Primitive Ways of Living to keep themselves as close to their Religion/Culture as possible.

The AMISH people are one Example, they live by the ways that their Culture/Religion interprets from the Source Material for their Culture (The Bible) choosing to live in a way that many had done before the Industrial Period and Period of what Civilization had changed to that could be consider at times to be against the Ways of God.

It could be those Engineers are living the same kind of existence to a degree, where the more Technologically Advanced Equipment and Ships are only used for a Certain Purpose for some Greater Cause.  But where as for most Day to Day Survival of their Species they Do-Not need such Advanced Technologies.  It could be that due to Trouble Caused by having such Advanced Technologies and being involved in what ever they had used such Technology for... they had decided to SHUN the Technology and Gains it would have accept in Rare Cases.

When CHAOS comes from the Evolution of Society and all the Corruption, the Deceit and Unlawful behavior, you can see some people would just live to imagine being WHISKED off to a Far Away Island to seek out and Live a more Basic Life of Peace and Harmony, this could be what those Engineers are doing.

We also have to consider they could be just as ADAM/EVE were in the Bible, and thats a Humanoid Creation who are Given a Land (Garden of Eden) where they are contained within the Walls of this Place, Watched over by Gods Cherubim Angels were maybe these beings Live Out their Lives sticking to the Rituals and Ways of their Forefathers or Hierarchy and that every now and again a few are selected to SEED Life on other Worlds in their Image. 

BigDave what do you make of Holloway's words that the head room was another tomb? With all the frescoes and mural and the urns it reminded me of an ancient Egyptian tomb. In this case could the altar be a sarcophagus? Was there a dead body (aside from the dead engineer) buried there? Was that actually a burial chamber belonging to a xenomorph? What if those engineers from LV223 were at first just passers-by,  like the Prometheus crew was later on? What if LV223 was the home planet of the Star Beast?

Its interesting Remark by Holloway but he is NO Expert, however the Dialog in the Movie is there to offer hints and so it could be that indeed behind the Mural could be another Tomb, this would mean that the Ampoule/Urn Room was a Tomb and we see it had the Big Head Statue which Fifield had questioned... is that GOD?

Its hard to tell IF that Door would have lead to any other such Tomb, looking at the MAP its hard to see it leading to anything but another Passage Way.

A = Big Head/Urn Rooms

B = The Center Part where Holloway takes off his Helmet

C = Passage way to the Juggernaught Hanger

So its hard to really see what lies behind it, i would speculate a Sacrificial Chamber as in my Re-write i did of Prometheus we get a Glimpse of this room and it is similar to the Star Beast Mural.  Its a Room that Humanoids are Sacrificed to incubate the Deacon.  But that was just my take on it all.

Its hard to connect to STARBEAST as so much has changed as far as what Prometheus Presented... but we can go by what Alien Engineers seemed to indicate which could be this WORLD was a place those Engineers had discovered a Organism similar to the Xenomorph (well its Ancestor) and they set up a Outpost to Experiment and Engineer new versions of this Organism.

Holloway was an archeologist so he should have seen a lot of ancient tombs to recognize one when he sees it. A lot of lines were silly in Prometheus,  like the Martian piss one, but the one about another tomb came at a moment when what was being said should have had some significance, they were exploring the head room, with its mural and frescoes and the green crystal. It was like when the tomb of Tutankhamun was discovered. The entire scene and all that was said in that room, including the remark from Holloway, should have had the same weight as the remark from Dallas when he described the Space Jockey. 

Ridley Scott introduced in the 2 prequels some unused concepts from the time of the Alien, like the pyramid and a mural and eggs, now shown as a dome, a strange mural and the black goo urns. I think he used the engineers as a pretext because he stated the Space Jockey was a suit and he needed someone to wear the suit, if he planned a bigger role for them, then why finish them off in a flashback scene later? And the way he portrayed the engineers in Covenant,  were they truly that poor in spirit or this was just the way David saw them? They were no gods or godlike, that's for sure.

"Holloway was an archeologist so he should have seen a lot of ancient tombs to recognize one when he sees it"

I think thats a good point and maybe i had jumped the GUN a little, i would say indeed as a Archeologist then Holloway would no doubt have came across Tombs before.  The Scene does hold some ambiguity as he is looking at the Altar and Crystal/Rock when he makes the "just another Tomb" comment before he shines his Torch onto the Mural.

The Prequels have a number of such ambiguous comments like this, where we could interpret this was aimed at the Mural and what lies beyond, or indeed it could be in regards to the Big Head Room alone.  But as i said before i feel a number of the dialog comments are there to grant us clues, and so i would have thought the comment was there to indicate something lies behind that Mural which is in effect likely just another DOOR.

Looking at Prometheus Again, it does appear via the Maps that it leads directly to another Passage Way... which leads to another Room However....  I think Pondering what lies behind that Mural/Door is something interesting as a reveal that it leads to NOTHING i feel would be a disappointment.

We have to perhaps look at what we see in the Big Head Room and that Altar and Mural and the only conclusions that make sense for what could be behind that MURAL/DOOR has to be either.

1) A Place where they Sacrificed Hosts to Produce the Deacon/Xenomorph related Organisms.

2) A Continuation of that were they Sacrifice the then Said Deacon/Xenomorph related Organisms to obtain whatever is in those Urns.

The Prometheus Re-write (Edit) i worked on would have shown a Glimpse of behind this MURAL were it would have had more Clear Murals/Frescoes but also housed like Cryo-Stasis Pods standing upwards as well as other Smaller more Spherical Pods showing us this Room was where they Stored Hosts and Face Hugger like Organisms. 

I think with Dallas what he discovered was something he certainly would have not been any expert on, and so his ASSUMPTIONS have seemed to be just that... However....

I think there is scope that the ONE he made could indeed be correct (The it looks like its grown out of the Chair) because this would help to airbrush over the Size difference of the Engineers and Space Jockey.

But i do agree that maybe there should be something more to it than that because indeed we was introduced to our Engineers in Prometheus, and teased the connection between them and the Space Jockey race... that certainly it set up Sequels to explore these SPACE JOCKEYS in more detail, yet the Sequel we got a Race of Engineers who were so much further away from the Space Jockey Clad Folk in Prometheus and killed off in a Flash Back that it seemed just a shame to BRUSH them under the Carpet.

So indeed they were NO GODS.... but the reveal in a Comment that those Folk where the Original Engineers, now makes the whole Creation Hierarchy a bit LAME and certainly that there is NO Godlike Beings, just Advanced Knowledge and those in Control of this become the GODS.

But we can only hope that it left the Door Open to wonder who Originally had all this Knowledge, and introduce us to something more Godlike than our Engineers.