The Xenomorphing podcast, new episode. Alien franchise podcast

"Yes. This. It was a mistake. Use the planned trilogy approach for essentially separate films"

I think the majority of the Franchise was SET to NOT require a Sequel....  With ALIEN then i think that was OPEN to a Sequel, with ALIENS and ALIEN 3 i think they Ended in a way to Not Require any....  ALIEN R likewise.

Prometheus kind of DID leave it as to Wondering where David and Dr Shaw go Next (same with prior Drafts). I think RS saw the Potential to open up a Expanded Spin Off but he knew it was Dependent on the Success of the First Prequel.   I would assume some of the STUFF they held back they do so, so that the First Movie has Questions, which Fans will Speculate on, which could Generate a Interest to then Continue with some Answers.... 

The ambiguity of Prometheus and what potentially it could SET-UP has led to many Debates and Questions, much like ALIEN had too (Space Jockey, Eggs) so i would say that YES to a degree some STUFF is left out as a Carrot to want Fans to see a Sequel to get  Answers.

If NO sequel is made then it leaves it a Mystery which some Fans are ok with and other prefer to have Answers.  I wonder how many Fans in HINDSIGHT.. would wish that a Sequel (AC) had not attempted to give any Answers to the Eggs Origins?  And would RATHER have NO Answers than what we seem to be getting?

With Alien Covenant we are informed that THIS is now a Series of Prequels that WILL lead us to the Back Door of ALIEN, so the SET UP is that we are MORE than a Single Movie from getting to ALIEN... at the Time RS had indicated it would take maybe 2 more Movies before we get to ALIEN.  So in affect he was Planning for a Trilogy from Alien Covenant.   But its a Trilogy where you have to Question IF they have the Next Two Movies Planned out?

The Pitfall we have is that with AC not doing well and not getting Rave Reviews... then it becomes a Prequel in LIMBO..

"Alien Covenant was a MISTAKE!"

When i mention this, i understand the Developmental Problems as they could NOT really come up with a Story they was Pleased with Until 2015

I think it was a Mistake in that i feel you NEVER had to Force a Continuation of Davids Arc to LINK to the Origins of the Xenomorph.

I still felt the BEST way to give those Answers would have been another Return to LV-223, you think the Company are just going to NOT want to Discover what Happened.. and when we Eventually got Special Order 937 its a case of where did this come from and WHY would they bypass LV-223.

So a Return to LV-223 would give some Closure to ALIEN as you can Uncover more about LV-426 from this (Prometheus they barely Scratched the Surface of those 5 Complexes). So you can give a more Action and Alieny Flick with Monsters similar to the Xenomorph, where you can give more Clues/Answers to WHAT the Engineers where doing on LV-223 and WHAT had gone down to Cause the Outbreak.... and indicate that a Remnants of the Experiments is on LV-426.

Door to ALIEN is then CLOSED..

A Prometheus Sequel with David and Dr Shaw would then NOT be Restrained to Answer what Happened on LV-223 or the Xenomorph, and have more Freedom to Explore other things.... which still could Eventually be the Unleashing of a Horror.

Prometheus had OPENED up a Pandora's Box of Horrors and Potential...  with Alien Covenant it kind of PUT the Franchise BACK into the BOX.

A Franchise that is inside a BOX its a case of how many Eggs can you FIT into that Box ;)  (we have had 4 so FAR)

daliens

Yes, they eat and so what? Theater is fun.

But more importantly, it explains why people prefer complex characters instead of deep meaning.

BigDave

>>>I still felt the BEST way to give those Answers would have been another Return to LV-223, you think the Company are just going to NOT want to Discover what Happened

You should try to look from the point of view of an regular viewer. And then two uncomfortable questions arise:

1) Why should I again go to the film about the dead and desert (synonymous with “boring)" stone in space? Contrary to all expectations, xenomorphs will not lure the public.

2) Uh, oh, doesn't that look like working on bugs, an attempt to make the "right" Prometheus? It does not look like an attempt to give answers. Because in the minds of the viewer, the LV-223 is an unanswered trap.

Here's why:

>>>I would assume some of the STUFF they held back they do so, so that the First Movie has Questions

Questions.

Few expected to see xenomorphs in Prometheus. Those who followed the process of making the film knew that there would be no xeno. Check.

Reluctantly, some people have accepted the humanoid Space Jockeys / Engineers.They also appeared in early interviews and teasers. Check.
The behavior of the characters has become the main source of parodies. No one expected this. But at least it was pretty fun, right? Check.

And now the main thing - questions. If you lived on Earth in 2012 in our dimension, then you know that even after removing the xenomorphs, the film was advertised as "find the answers". It was even a slogan for a stand for Blu-ray discs six months after the release. There were no answers in the film. WTF?

People came to the film for answers, but received questions. And people were not mistaken - because everyone including FOX, director and writers talked about the answers. It's funny enough that Covenant once again did what Prometheus had to do.

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Returning to the characters. Funny enough, Ridley again gave the characters strange behavior. I think we should ask - how elaborate will the characters in the third sequel be? And in the fourth?

Will all the forces of the maestro again be directed to the android? And the rest of the characters will take off spacesuits in space and try to stroke the monster?

And in the end, the xenomorph is again to blame.

"I would never have thought that Aliens-hater himself would explain why people love Aliens so much, but not the adventures of philosopher colonists"

I think thats a Valid Point Leto..

I think the PROBLEM is that Fans have their own Likes/Dislikes, and YES we know ALIENS is maybe the Most Recognizable of the Franchise.

The Prequels was a Attempt to Give some Answers to the Xenomorph Origins and WHO was the Space Jockey, but its PLOT was NOT to be purely Based on Xenomorphs.

We would have had the Prequel as a BRIDGE so that it goes to Indicate more about the Xenomorph and Purpose but then it left it OPEN to go off to STEER AWAY from LV-426 and Xenomorphs.  And to cover the Space Jockey Plot (Engineers).

The Problem with PROMETHEUS was they Toned Down the ALIENY aspect... the Monsters and Clues to the Xenomorph Origins and LV-426... this was DONE too FAR that it Did-Not give enough of a BRIDGE to ALIEN.

So then FOX had felt that you have to Actually go and MAKE a Direct Prequel Series with THOSE Answers...

Thus it has KIND OF made a Sacrifice and Limitation on what a Sequel that STEERED AWAY from the Xenomorph/LV-426 could have been.

While giving a PLOT that has DISAPPOINTED so many (David Creator)

In HINDSIGHT then a Sequel that is Similar to what i Proposed instead of Alien Covenant, and so more of a Alien Engineers Re-Visit to LV-223 could have Provide more Clues/Answers to the Xenomorph, could have given a Action/Horror that was more Action than Alien Covenant and i think Pleased the ALIEN/ALIENS Fans more.

THEN you could have had another Parallel Sequel that goes off with David and Dr Shaw and NOT have to be Shackled to the Answers of LV-223 or LV-426 and Explore the other Themes and Philosophy.

The LV-223 Movie could lead to Special Order 937 but also let the Fans go and WONDER... what other Worlds did the Engineers Attempt to Send those Egg Filled Ships too... or even Black Goo too.

so you then HAVE other Avenues for ALIEN Movies about Xenomorphs or other Horrors that does-not have to Connect to where David and Dr Shaw go Next..

You have then BRANCHED the Franchise into Expanding a ALIEN Franchise while you STILL have the Philosophical/Creators Spin Off that is NOT about ALIEN.

But what is DONE is DONE...

"Few expected to see xenomorphs in Prometheus. Those who followed the process of making the film knew that there would be no xeno"

I see the Good Point... but we have to remember only a SMALL % of the Box Office takings would be from Fans who would Invest more time into Following the Movies Production and visit SITES like this.

"the film was advertised as "find the answers". It was even a slogan for a stand for Blu-ray discs six months after the release. There were no answers in the film. WTF?"

Have to Totally Agree with this..... they have been Misleading us.... i mean look at the Alien Covenant Poster with Engineers vs Xenomorphs......  WTF they playing at?

Trying to ROPE us into something thats NOT there, which is well NOT NICE of them ;)

"And in the end, the xenomorph is again to blame."

Some may, but i dont think the Xenomorph is to blame for the Pickle we are in NOW....  I also agree the Characters have NOT been too Good...

The Emphasis on David is maybe too much...

Leto

I think David is the most complex character of the franchise and he still has a lot to offer.

And I like a lot the good war movies.

What I don't like and don't want to see again is marines shooting aliens and generally any Cameron style Aliens, no matter how good are the special effects. 

In my humble opinion the best characters were in Alien3, Alien and Alien Covenant. The rest don't matter too much.

On the other hand, killing Newt, Hicks and Ripley in Alien3 was the best decision, like killing Shaw and the Engineers in Alien Covenant. I would have enjoyed, however to have explored more the Engineers' world and myths, but for that you don't need any living Engineer. Ask David.

Enjoy your popcorn!

Alien3 is more of a war movie than Aliens, although it had no fire arms.

I forgot to add that Aliens has the most stupid soundtrack.

It should have been released on VHS only.

>>>i mean look at the Alien Covenant Poster with Engineers vs Xenomorphs......  WTF they playing at?

Yeah! The poster promised us a mythical massacre. Add to this the footage from the filming with monumental stairs and charred engineers. But in the end - "Cabin in the woods."

>>>The Emphasis on David is maybe too much...

David is alright. Walter too. But other characters are neglected. Given that this is the second film in a row with this attitude to the characters, I would not be surprised if in the third film we got the Queen, which some scientist will try to stroke. xDDD

I would not be surprised if in the third film we got the Queen, which some scientist will try to stroke. xDDD

Isn't that what the fans of "the most recognizable film in the franchise" (quote BigDave) want?

IF and i think thats a BIG if we got a 3rd Prequel then who knows.....

I dont think that the Perfecting of Davids Queen would have meant we get to the Aliens Queen... i am not sure that RS would go and introduce the Cameron's Queen as a Money Shot for his Prequel Series.....

But with DISNEY in Control this could be something they would FORCE upon the Prequels.. but i cant see Disney being interesting in any kind of Continuation.

Back to the OT

I have already said that i DONT think you have to and that its WISE to just go and bring back Ellen Ripley.  If they want to see Miss Weaver make a Return then i think they have to WORK with a Continuation of Ripley 8 or leave the Ripley Saga alone......

There are other Avenues to do a ALIEN V and as i have said i think you would have to STICK really close to the Xenomorph Aesthetic we have seen for this Reintroduction to the Franchise... at least in the FIRST Movie.

I think you lay some SEEDS down towards the Engineers so that this OPENS up something to go back to with a Sequel, but does-not Necessarily mean that has to be the case.

I think i may have to agree with LETO as far as HOW you END a New ALIEN Movie, by that we cant WRITE a Story that is Expecting Sequels in-case you simply WONT get any.

so you can leave some things that mean something could be OPEN to explore IF we got a Sequel.... and by that if you look at LV-223 after Prometheus, or LV-426 after Alien then they are left open to Explore....

Rather than a ENDING where it would indicate their is something NEXT.... such as the Prometheus Ending...

BD: I am not interested in another Alien movie if that means another movie that has Ripley in it. Even Alien R had the clone and even though it was not the original it failed. Pleasing a majority will be difficult but to have a story and enough well-made characters is something that I think could work but I do not want any Ripley connection what so ever.

About the prequels, I would not be very sad if they write them out of canon because they are not very good even though they sure have parts that I enjoy. You mention if there would be any conflict with them. My take on it is that as long as they do not contradict 1, 2, and 3 I could maybe be alright with it but at the same time I am not sure if they would work if we would get writers like the prequels and a director that does not care about the characters.

Daliens eventually wrote this

"most people want to see characters and landscapes they can relate with. . . "

I agree, villains can be interesting too if they are well written (think Batman, in many cases) but in general if I do not have characters that fight the good fight or that I can relate to then I don't care. Without characters it doesn't work no matter how interesting the themes are or how good it looks. Covenant and Prometheus looked good but lack well made characters so therefore they are at the lower part of my Alien list so to speak. The original three have characters, the prequels generally don't.

"How many people posting here don't want to see the continuation of the David's arc because they cannot relate to a robot?"

F no! I can only speak for myself, I would probably point finger or sigh if they do another prequel like that although he could have a small role like the Bishop android in Alien 3 but not more.

Have it being biomechanoid would be interesting but that is not my major concern. Prometheus and Covenant look good although I was disappointed in the Engineer city but if they can do something better then sure.

"I honestly believe that the best solution in this moment is to let Ridley Scott do the sequel to Alien Covenant. . ."  

Not if that means him being involved in the story. He is one of the reasons why we got this David thing. Let him handle the visuals but keep him far away from the script. Keep the script to those that can write a story.

MonsterZero: I don’t think that they all sound depressed but I can at least think of one that you might think of. I can understand that some people might feel a bit down if they have been looking forward to Blomkamp's movie and then it gets canceled especially when we see how Covenant went which to me is mostly bad.