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The "Problem of Humanity"?

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Nathan Adler

Mar-30-2020 12:54 AM

From Alien 01: Master Narrative, what do we propose the "Problem of Humanity" was that the Engineers were concerned over?

10 Responses to The "Problem of Humanity"?

BigDave

Mar-30-2020 4:04 PM

I think that may be one of the MILLION $$$$ Questions ;)

Alien 01: Master Narrative was the Pitch that Jon Spaights made that then Evolved to his Drafts, which include Alien Engineers and Alien Genesis, which then got Quite a Re-Write when Damian Lindeloff came aboard.

The Alien 01: Master Narrative i think could have Held Many Answers, Sadly i dont think its Available anywhere. We only had a Glimpse of some Pages from the Furious Gods Documentary.

I think we need to LOOK at what Little we got and apply it to what we saw in Prometheus

So in the Master Narrative these Engineers were likely Very similar to Mankind at some point, they had over MILLIONS of years at least, Evolved as far as Technology, Philosophy where some things became more Important to them than some Cultural/Society Norms.  These Engineers had Advanced Themselves Genetically and NOW they Live for Thousands of Years but they had also became Sterile.

Not Satisfied with this Level of Evolution, they likely Strive to be more, to become Immortal as they are Mortal After-all.  And so while they are Trying to Discover ways to Further Evolve themselves to some Higher State, they had Created Mankind.

They had Nurtured, Evolved our Species, Taught us Gradually many things, One Day in the Hope that ONCE the Engineers had Found their Godhead (Divinity) then Mankind could Inherit what they had Left behind and maybe ONE day when Worthy we could attain the same Status as them.

I would say that while Mankind Started to Learn Fast from our Creators, our Creators had Reached a Limit to how FAR they can Pursue becoming Gods/Divine as far as Attaining some kind of True Immortality.

While they Struggle to take to that Next Stage of Evolution, they maybe saw that Mankind was becoming Sentient, Realizing its their Creators Technology and Knowledge that ONLY makes them really GODS.

Once Mankind is able to Learn all of their Secrets then in Time we would Advance just like them.  (Imagine the Medical Advancements in Thousands of Years Time, would we be Confined to Living for 90-100 Years in say 5'000 Years Time?)  And so if a Species has these Secrets NOW and we Gain Them, then we could reach such Levels that would take us Thousands of Years within Hundreds.

So if the Engineers could No-Longer Procreate, and Mankind can in Great Numbers and we are becoming Sentient, and yet the Engineers have attained the Limits of Evolution, it is LIKELY they would FEAR that we would Eventually Overthrow them and Become the New Gods.

A King has his Reign....then he DIES.

And so in PART this is what the Problem of Humanity would be in Context to the Master Narrative, i would add However that this is only Interpretation and Speculation based on the Master Narrative Plot.

The Engineers Plot has likely Changed quite a bit in that Context, but i think my Reply does Apply quite  a lot to our Prequel Engineers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Mar-30-2020 4:22 PM

Above is as Much as i have seen of the Master Narrative, if anyone has the Full Version or has a Better Idea what the Missing Words are then feel free to post ;)

I will add the Problem with Humanity would seem to be something that they became Concerned with and Decided they Needed to Create something to DESTROY us with.

I think we should not just look at this as purely being that we KILLED a Space Jesus though ;)

Creation, Sub-Creation, allowing or Creating something to become Sentient, and Procreate can Potentially be a Problem when this Creation does-not view its Creators as Superior or see the Need to Worship and Follow the Rules set by their Creators.

These Themes apply to Multiple Layers, and i think The Problem of Humanity is one of those Layers.

If we take WALTER is he a Concern?  Maybe NOT.. but if the Walter Models can become Sentient, have own Ambitions, Feelings/Emotions like David then that could be a Problem.... then what if the Androids could then Procreate (even if thats to MASS PRODUCE many in Factories).  This would become for us "The Problem of Synthetics" and so i think if we go the Level Back to Engineers/Humans then the The Problem of Synthetics for us is the same as The Problem of Humanity for the Engineers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Nathan Adler

Mar-30-2020 11:33 PM

@BigDave: Is there something way bigger our ancestors might have done beyond the crucifixion of Christ that might have had the Engineers incensed enough to drop barrels of death and shit on us?  Given the shape of pharaoh heads being akin to the xenomorph, might it be the Roman conquest of Egypt? Or something else? 

BigDave

Mar-31-2020 7:20 AM

I think we Cant really be taking things too Literally, but this is the Problem Caused by going for the Chariots of the Gods type of Plot.  I would assume the Plot was NOT trying to put too much Emphasis on any Particular Mythos or Religion and so we have to Try and look at any Common Themes within them.  However some could look at the 2000 Years ago Date, and Various Christian Elements within Prometheus and Conclude that Christ had to be a Important Factor.

When looking at the Pharaoh Heads they are Elongated and some of the Concept Work for the Engineers had more Elongated Heads so you could wonder was there some Engineers/Visitors with Elongated Heads?

The Prometheus Engineers had a Slight Elongation but they was more of a Protrusion than Elongation.  Maybe some Engineers are Different and have Elongated Heads?

Or maybe they just wore Head Accessories and the like that gave the Impression they had Elongated Heads, and so Ancient Mankind then assumed without such Head-wear they would have a Elongated Skull?

Also a lot of Ancient Depictions and Art do tend to Exaggerate things so for instance a 8ft Person could be Drawn or Depicted as being FAR larger than 8ft.  some Ancient Cultures also Depict persons in Power, Royalty or would be Gods as being TALLER than a Normal Person as a way to Indicate their Higher Status.

I think when looking at our Engineers it could be that they would COME and GO at Certain Intervals and so they may come and STAY and Teach us Certain Things for a Number of Years and then they would Leave and Return Hundreds of Years Latter.

It could be that at ONE point when they was away for a Few Hundred Years they came back and saw that SOME cultures had Started to Develop their own Rules, Rituals etc that the Engineers saw as Concerning and the Roman Empire indeed could be ONE of those Civilizations.

The Egyptian Pharaohs could be Engineers or a Hybrid so sort of Demi-God/Engineers who are in Effect the Emissaries on the Engineers behalf who are Tasked to Maintain what the Engineers want from us and how we should be Governed etc.

If we accept this, and see how the Roman Empire had Influenced many Cultures with their Quest for Domination and Enforcing their Ways on the Various Civilizations they came into Contact with and Conquered, then INDEED you could bet the Engineers would NOT be Pleased ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Nathan Adler

Apr-14-2020 1:47 AM

@IsraelSchmidt: The problem is that the Space Jockey on LV-426 that Dallas and Kane found fossilised wasn't drawn or depicted, it was approximately 7ft taller than the 8ft Engineers we saw in Prometheus, and it seemed more equivalent to the "Kings" shown in Elizabeth Shaw's notebook, especially the second page depicting the Ptolemaic period (i.e. 100 B.C.).

BigDave

Apr-14-2020 5:45 PM

I think IsraelSchmidt you make a Good Point that i have mentioned a few times prior. But none the less i have to also agree with Nathan, that our Space Jockey Certainly was a Legitimate 12-15ft Entity.

I did this Image a while ago, that shows what the Prometheus Engineers are like compared to the Space Jockey that is in the Chair on LV-426

Certainly at Inception of the Prequels our Engineers were intended to be 12-15ft Tall.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Nathan Adler

Apr-14-2020 9:34 PM

@BigDave: If it was a neo/xeno that burst from that Space Jockey's chest, I hate to think how large it was.  That, and where the heck was it when the crew of the Nostromo arrived?

Nathan Adler

May-13-2020 12:00 AM

@PhantomBlackberry: Yep, you’ll note I stated the exact same thing above in my response to IsraelSchmidt on April 14 @ 1:47 AM

BigDave

May-14-2020 8:04 AM

"If it was a neo/xeno that burst from that Space Jockey's chest"

It seems likely that something Related had Chest Busted from the Space Jockey.  The Size of it depends on WHAT kind of Organism had infected the Space Jockey.

If it was a Xenomorph Egg then the Chest Buster would be No More than Double the one from Alien, likewise the Resulting Xenomorph would be No Larger than a Queen.

The same would be if it was a Neomorph like Infection too, these are based on the Space Jockey being between 12-15ft Tall though.

Regarding the Size of the Space Jockey i have done Various Calculations over the Years and to me the Space Jockey is about 13ft Tall.

When the Prequels were being worked on the Engineers were BORN and they was SUPPOSED to be 12-15ft Tall.

During Production they decided they should appear to be a 9-10ft Race instead... but alas the Finished Product was a 7-8ft Race.

This comes down to Ridley Scott not wishing to rely on Special Effects to Portray Larger beings... although the Scale of the Engineers Head would have been to a 9ft Humanoid and the Deleted Sacrificial Bowl on the Altar (replaced with Green Crystal) was at a Scale that would make the Sacrificial Engineer about 10ft Tall.

The Cryo-Pods would only hold a 8ft being, the Space Jockey Suits hanging up are nearly 9ft.

So indeed they DONT add up with the Space Jockey Size... and so where there is a Discrepancy, it means we can Speculate they cant be Engineers, and it means the Space Jockey could be revealed to NOT be a Engineer.

But it seems the Intention  was that the Space Jockey is a Engineer.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

John E Normand

May-25-2020 3:02 AM

humanity's biggest problem is humanity itself. One of the biggest problems in human history is existential. So, love is the supreme virtue, i.e. doing good, good. It was defined by Plato as aspiration for integrity and Augustine as universal force of attraction. It can be added that love is an absolute form of activity. In other words, it is the supreme, ultimate and self-sufficient manifestation of will. Love is more than the desire to have pleasure at the expense of someone or something, irrelevant or even contrary to their goodness. It is the assertion of the other at his own expense, irrelevant or even contrary to his own good. In this regard, the experiences of undivided love, sung by many poets, look and really are selfish self-love, which can be overcome by shifting attention from one's own to another. You can read about it or order a written paper that deals with psychological problems and psychology in general here for example https://au.edubirdie.com/psychology-assignment-help. Attitude to death is an inevitable worldview and philosophical problem. In essence, it is existential, as it is experienced as a personal problem. This problem is actualized by life-threatening diseases or loss of close people, but it is always present in human life in a hidden form. It is no coincidence that it is said that to philosophize is to learn to die. In his awareness of mortality, Socrates saw the most important reason why man turned to philosophy. When the Italian mafia put forward its famous warning 'memento mori', it meant a reminder not so much of death as of the need for the right life, which becomes clearer in the face of death. If a person thinking about the upcoming fifty years of life can relax, the threat to his life, the more so the countdown to its completion is very sharpened meaning. Then the man begins to philosophize - learn to die. It is not difficult to understand that it is much more effective to address this problem in advance and solve it for themselves in general without a rigid existential tension.

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